[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 28:Does anyone wonder how many times JB has phoned up Mike Huckabee?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

Ha! I was just coming here to post the Dr. Grande link. I've been a fan of his YT channel. He has a very dry, subtle sense of humor.

I hope he isn't like Beetlejuice, because if he is we just summoned him  

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

9 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

...do people pay for it? I was under the impression that most people just download it somewhere without paying

I remember hearing of one large network that had certain membership “levels”. Membership/entrance required submission of new or original CSA material. Apparently this model is not uncommon (?).

[SassyPants]

Thank god GM Mary is resting in peace  because you know that JB would have foisted Josh on her-

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

None of them should be put in this situation.  I don't know enough about adjacent Duggar people to know if they have someone outside the family that might do it.

The question is could they hire someone to do it? 

I imagine any number of IBLP families would send an adult son to come help, but they're not really in better position than the Duggar sons. 

I think if they're not going the family route, they need to hire someone and maybe even pay the family members stuck watching him.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

22 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Apparently if you believe Duggartok, that's the plan. The ole... wow this was on my computer/phone how could I have known just because its mine and I had the most access to it! I'm innocent, really!

The same reason people like using uhaul trucks to smuggle drugs into the country. It wasn’t me!

[OrchidBlossom]

12 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Wow yeah, that would be a less than ideal way to announce a pregnancy. So gross if they were thinking they needed to do the gender reveal fast because the new baby's father was about to be arrested for child sex abuse images.

...do people pay for it? I was under the impression that most people just download it somewhere without paying

Ugh its gross to discuss but yeah, my understanding from legal training, interest in true crime, and general stuff you see around talking about weird (or in this case disgusting and illegal) stuff on the internet is that there is a whole network of it. A lot of it is on the dark web, but not all of it. The dark web has complex cryptocurrency exchanges, and even if Josh wasn't using the dark web, he'd likely be paying in cryptocurrency, or cash if he got it from someone he knew. 

There was a discussion a while back about how difficult or easy it is to find CSA materials online, and my understanding is its somewhere in the middle. You aren't normally going to find it if you aren't looking for it, although its possible you do. You don't need the dark web, but it helps if you're going in looking for that stuff. He may also know some people who are also pedophiles. They never even have to say it that way. There are sort of "code phrases" so if you are talking about, say, what you find attractive you can say "I like (code phrase)". I remember vaguely reading a blog run by a survivor when I was in law school and she mentioned some, but they're genuinely too gross to type out without vomiting, although in passing they would sound innocuous.

I've never used the dark web (because I am a straight up luddite) but there are legit uses, and I'd be super curious to hear from anyone who has used it for those purposes.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Thank god GM Mary is resting in peace  because you know that JB would have foisted Josh on her-

If there is an afterlife I hope hers isn't peaceful.  JB didn't hatch fully crazy out of an egg...she helped create this and enabled them for years.  

[OrchidBlossom]

5 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

I remember hearing of one large network that had certain membership “levels”. Membership/entrance required submission of new or original CSA material. Apparently this model is not uncommon (?).

This is accurate. I'm not a criminal attorney and stuff like this is the reason why. I couldn't bear to have to look at and contemplate this stuff.

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, Phyllis_Stein said:

I guess it's ok to deal with Jewish people (Jewish lawyers, in this case) when you need to get out of a child sex abuse crime. 

We don’t claim him. *screams YOU CANT SIT WITH US at the immoral asshole lawyer*
 

Good to know Dr. Grande has a new video out. He is a gem that I’ve discovered this past year. 

16 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I hope he isn't like Beetlejuice, because if he is we just summoned him  

I wonder what snarky thing he’d say about people who devote hours of their life’s to snarking on fundies  

[JoiseyGoil]

Is JB hiring Justin Gelfand a concern? Where the previous cases Gelfand had acquitted or found not guilty similar to Pest’s case? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I wonder what snarky thing he’d say about people who devote hours of their life’s to snarking on fundies  

Good point.  

[onekidanddone]

15 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If there is an afterlife I hope hers isn't peaceful.  JB didn't hatch fully crazy out of an egg...she helped create this and enabled them for years.  

Also she did nothing to protect her granddaughters.  She knew what was going on in that house and sat there keeping sweet 

[Hera]

4 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I agree about the absurdity of all this, but I think a part of it may be that JB feels his daughter turned against him whereas Josh still “depends” on him and Amy was always supposed to be the “non-fundie” cousin whose life contrasted with that of his own kids.

If I remember correctly, Jill was supposedly JB’s favorite, and he sort of picked Dereck for her. Then instead of Dereck becoming a Duggar acolyte, acknowledging JB as the patriarch, Dereck wants control over his and Jill’s life, and actually asserts himself. So JB is feeling “betrayed.”  

 

Yes, despite all the “leave and cleave” bullshit - in Jim Bob’s mind, Jill wasn’t ever really supposed to chose her husband over her father; her husband was supposed to submit to him. That Derrick did not and Jill chose to follow him is the ultimate betrayal. And all that’s followed just exacerbates that.  And, to be clear, that a Jim Bob control issue problem, not a Jill being an adult problem. 

[HarryPotterFan]

14 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I've never used the dark web (because I am a straight up luddite)

I like to think people just Google “How to find the dark web” and BAM. You click a URL and you’re there. 

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Good point.  

I’m afraid of his insults permanently wounding me but you know they’d be good. “I am not commenting on the individuals who post on FJ but I’m just speculating on what type of person would keep up with people they can’t stand...” 

[Kjaerringa]

4 hours ago, justodd said:

 

Sex work, in all reality, is one of the few industries where the participation of women is worth more than that of straight men. Straight men (and I’m specifying straight men because they’re a larger demographic than gay men, and consume more as a result), with or without “options”, don’t turn to it because it doesn’t really hold many options for *them*.

 

 

 

True. And while some women obviously do very well, it is not going to be the majority of sex workers nationwide, across all platforms. I AM very concerned that several posters have opened up in great detail about their experiences, which have not been positive, to say the least...yet there are several posters who have glossed over those responses by discussing pay scales at the studios producing porn. The number of sex workers who attain that high level of fame and autonomy is small. The number of sex workers having little agency is far greater. 

I agree that legalization and regulation are ways that the industry can be made safer. Even so, history will teach us that even in societies where sex work was accepted...the courtesan system in Europe, the placées in New Orleans when Louisiana was French territory...the danger of being cast off was still present, leaving the woman in search of a new protector. To truly revolutionize the industry would require a paradigm shift in society that, cynically, I don't believe would ever occur...so we are left with the need to legislate change and hope the mores will follow. I do not believe anyone should be shamed for their choices, but realistically, I wonder how long it would actually take for the respect necessary for sex work to ever be truly safe and/or equitable to be obtained.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I like to think people just Google “How to find the dark web” and BAM. You click a URL and you’re there. 

I’m afraid of his insults permanently wounding me but you know they’d be good. “I am not commenting on the individuals who post on FJ but I’m just speculating on what type of person would keep up with people they can’t stand...” 

I question it myself quite a bit.  It's up there on my list of things in my life of which I'm not proud.

[Katzchen24]

Amongst the horribleness, its deeply upsetting if JB and M have made enough money from exploiting their children to be able to afford a high powered lawyer to defend their son from charges relating to the exploitation of children. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Katzchen24

[Freejin]

32 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Ugh its gross to discuss but yeah, my understanding from legal training, interest in true crime, and general stuff you see around talking about weird (or in this case disgusting and illegal) stuff on the internet is that there is a whole network of it. A lot of it is on the dark web, but not all of it. The dark web has complex cryptocurrency exchanges, and even if Josh wasn't using the dark web, he'd likely be paying in cryptocurrency, or cash if he got it from someone he knew. 

There was a discussion a while back about how difficult or easy it is to find CSA materials online, and my understanding is its somewhere in the middle. You aren't normally going to find it if you aren't looking for it, although its possible you do. You don't need the dark web, but it helps if you're going in looking for that stuff. He may also know some people who are also pedophiles. They never even have to say it that way. There are sort of "code phrases" so if you are talking about, say, what you find attractive you can say "I like (code phrase)". I remember vaguely reading a blog run by a survivor when I was in law school and she mentioned some, but they're genuinely too gross to type out without vomiting, although in passing they would sound innocuous.

I've never used the dark web (because I am a straight up luddite) but there are legit uses, and I'd be super curious to hear from anyone who has used it for those purposes.

I have zero experience with any dark web stuff. Is it possible that a person could download CP without knowing what it is or is that just not possible?  I’m assuming you need something other than Google chrome. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

  Why didn't Josh get a vasectomy? He could've found a way to do that without telling anyone. When he first married Anna, he said he'd be ok even with 1-2. He kept putting himself in situations where others are vulnerable.

What has a vasectomy to do with his possible pedophilia? 

Yes, he should have sought help for his inappropriate desires instead of succumbing to the urge to watch porn.  But that’s a different subject.  He was told all his life that pornography and masturbation and sex with anyone other than your wife is wrong.

He was also told that many children is good.  He may not have wanted the responsibility, but he cared about the credit and status of being a father of many children.

I would think that he may have felt that he was, at least, doing his Godly duty as a Quiverful parent. (The only duty there being to father the children his wife would raise as Godly Christians.  Supporting them doesn’t always seem a concern among the Quiverfull.)

[Howl]

Quote

@Imrlgoddess noted: "She is saying Josh is/was telling Anna that the material found was for an old employee."

So, way to screw some innocent person.  

Also, as we know, the young Josh was sent off to do manual labor at an IBLP re-education camp.   When he came home in 2003, an Arkansas State Trooper and  Duggar family friend was told the story and gave Josh a "stern talk."  Although a mandated reporter, the state trooper did not report Josh.  So, this guy, James W. Hutchens, was convicted in 2007 of possessing explicit images of child sexual abuse and got 5 years.   In 2012, he was convicted again of a similar charge and got 56 years. 

Was this guy a malign influence on Josh at some point?  An old pedophile meets a young pedophile?  This child sexual abuse connection has always bothered me. 

[Peaches and Pears]

2 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Well, I kind of wish I hadn't read that. But I guess that it is good to know.

Remember this is his highlights. He isn't going to list the cases he lost on his website. 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, EmCatlyn said:

What has a vasectomy to do with his possible pedophilia? 

Yes, he should have sought help for his inappropriate desires instead of succumbing to the urge to watch porn.  But that’s a different subject.  He was told all his life that pornography and masturbation and sex with anyone other than your wife is wrong.

He was also told that many children is good.  He may not have wanted the responsibility, but he cared about the credit and status of being a father of many children.

I would think that he may have felt that he was, at least, doing his Godly duty as a Quiverful parent. (The only duty there being to father the children his wife would raise as Godly Christians.  Supporting them doesn’t always seem a concern among the Quiverfull.)

Yes, he was told many things as a child.  We were all told many things as children and we're still responsible for our behavior as adults.

The vasectomy was an aside about how he had agency and while choosing not to get help he also choose to keep having children.  No one was saying that would stop his pedophilia.  

[AussieKrissy]

6 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I don't want to body shame anyone, not even Josh who deserves naught but ill for the rest of his life. However, I do own a suitcase large enough to fit an adult human male. I use it for my clothes when I move ? It's this massive pink thing and standing up its a bit taller than me. Perhaps he can pack himself away in something similar... it also comes in pink zebra stripe and electric purple with yellow stars on it and blue with rainbow hearts. And I think lime green.

 

Inconspicuous.

I think if Smugs was stupid enough to pack himself into a big suitcase I am sure there is a pilot stupid enough too have an open door and tilt the plane over the middle of the ocean.

[WarriorJane]

3 hours ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

What about pleading “No contest” to charges? I believe that’s saying I’m not admitting guilt, but accepting this lesser punishment and not risking trial. 

I’ve also wondered if he will really plead guilty, or if he will try to maintain his innocence even once convicted just to try to save face? 

I don't think a nolo contendre plea would be of any benefit for Josh.  It doesn't impact sentencing any more than a guilty plea, so he wouldn't get any lesser sentence.  The most common reason defendants plead NC is to not have an admission of guilt on record in the event of a subsequent civil action.  

[Rachel333]

16 minutes ago, Freejin said:

I have zero experience with any dark web stuff. Is it possible that a person could download CP without knowing what it is or is that just not possible?  I’m assuming you need something other than Google chrome. 

To get on the dark web you need a specific browser, yes.

It doesn't have to be the dark web, though. I have seen people say they accidentally downloaded CP through sharing clients like limewire, though I don't know how often that really happens. And this wouldn't be accidental, but according to this NYT article (which has some fairly graphic descriptions) facebook messenger "was responsible for nearly 12 million of the 18.4 million worldwide reports of child sexual abuse material" in 2018.

That same article talked about one of the sites on the dark web too:
 

Quote

Increasingly, criminals are using advanced technologies like encryption to stay ahead of the police. In this case, the Ohio man, who helped run a website on the dark web known as the Love Zone, had over 3 million photos and videos on his computers.

The site, now shuttered, had nearly 30,000 members and required them to share images of abuse to maintain good standing, according to the court documents. A private section of the forum was available only to members who shared imagery of children they abused themselves. They were known as “producers.”

?

I feel so gross even reading about this stuff. And I feel terrible for the victims. That NYT piece and related articles go into what it's like for those people who know there are videos of them being abused that are still being circulated. It's horrible.