[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 28:Does anyone wonder how many times JB has phoned up Mike Huckabee?

[Queen Of Hearts]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

Where can we find out who his legal team is? It’s sad that JB is likely using money from the victims to help.
 

This is one of the saddest parts of this whole saga. The legal costs are going to no doubt be more than any of his childhood victims earned for havi g their lives pimped out on TV as kids.  JB has his priorities messed up.  Jill and Derek were lucky to get out when they did with what they did.  I suspect at least one of the other adult siblings/spouses is kicking themselves for not doing the same (my guess would be Jeremy for sure).

[luv2laugh]

1 minute ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

This is one of the saddest parts of this whole saga. The legal costs are going to no doubt be more than any of his childhood victims earned for havi g their lives pimped out on TV as kids.  JB has his priorities messed up.  Jill and Derek were lucky to get out when they did with what they did.  I suspect at least one of the other adult siblings/spouses is kicking themselves for not doing the same (my guess would be Jeremy for sure).

I’m trying to think about the consequences. I wonder if the Duggar siblings are going to attempt to threaten to shun JB and stop working for him if he spends a ton of money on Josh’s case? I can’t see many of them very happy. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by luv2laugh

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

How long could this thing drag on for? I wonder at what amount JB would max out on paying for all of this. I mean, this is a multiyear investigation by the Feds. I'm sure they have a strong case. 

I think JB has a running tally in his head and when the “money we can make capitalizing on our new testimony” number starts looking like it will be lower than the “legal costs” number Joshley will be all on his own. 

[Howl]

2 hours ago, WarriorJane said:

If he's not registered in that District court he has to petition the Court to appear pro hac vice.

The article I read indicated that Gelfand isn't licensed in Arkansas and would appear pro hac vice; there are two other "local" lawyers working on his case. 

[marmalade]

36 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

With all the speculation about the current TLC contract with Jim Bob, I would expect that TLC has been leery about long time commitments with Jim Bob since the 2019 raid. 

By the way: cursed be the first person who recommend Dr Grande on this thread. And additional curses to those who seconded the recommendation. I think I have found a rabbit hole where the rescue ferrets wont be able to find me. And I don't even LIKE true crime. 

I haven't seen any time more specific than afternoon.

1:30 CT. 

[hoipolloi]

49 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

The legal costs are going to no doubt be more than any of his childhood victims earned for havi g their lives pimped out on TV as kids.  JB has his priorities messed up. 

It's going to be big, big bucks, for sure.

JB must somehow believe they can either mitigate the severity of this case or even get Josh acquitted somehow, thus protecting the Duggar brand for future exploitation. It seems delusional but stranger & worse things have happened. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, meep said:

I don't think we will see the Duggars cleaning up their image by donating to CSA victims. Instead, (and I'm basing this off of Jessa's statement), I could see them more likely doubling down on "p*rn is a great evil and made Josh do this." They will dig their own graves and start a big campaign against even the most traditional, vanilla p*rn. They will totally ignore the fact that is was CSA. I do not think they are capable of facing this in a truthful matter. They literally don't know how. 

They'll try to do what they did the last time.  Blame, look for excuses, talk about how great it was that Josh turned himself in, or cooperated or pleaded guilty. Then they'll tell everyone Josh has repented and is doing so well working with others in the prison ministry.  Why, he brought two men to the Lord just last week! But this time around there won't be enough air freshener on the planet to cover their foul stench. 

[Tdoc72]

On 5/3/2021 at 8:22 PM, Not that josh's mom said:

The Duggar instagrams have nothing new since the "we hope justice prevails regardless of the outcome" statements. Wonder how long they can stand not posting "cute nonsense"? 

Just looked again and Jill and Jeremy have both posted.that was fast. 

Jill and Jeremy (and others) are innocent and not charged with anything. I believe they should carry on with their lives, which includes posting whatever they want. Neither are JimBob, Michelle, or Anna, but those are the ones I personally would like to see not comment. I think it would be in poor taste. 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:46 PM, grandmadugger said:

I’m mostly caught up again since I had to go to work today. I only have one question for JB. Why has Josh been welcomed in the big house and Jill isn’t? Is wearing jeans and wanting to be paid for a lifetime of work really worse than what Josh has done? 

Jill and Derick said in one of their videos that they have been invited but they don’t go. That’s different than being banned outright. 

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

BTW — Don’t you just see this latest Josh scandal as an inspiration for a new Law and Order SVU episode?  I see writers working on it right now.?

I hope so.  I would love another one.  His last scandal was on SVU (Patrimonial Burden, season 17, episode 7). Well, kind of—enough to know it was the Duggars but not enough to trigger a law suit. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tdoc72

[sixcatatty]

7 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

TMZ got a hold of some documents

Cause he's just a family man, you know. ?

I really wish I had not read that. Once again the white with money justus system.

[zee_four]

2 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I'm trying to imagine what it could cost. I'm thinking $500k at minimum? I think he will never plea guilty.

For my legal problems, a friend of mine died of multiple drug intoxication due to long term drug abuse in our small mountain town that combines the worst of the rural small town Old Boys club with tons of money from being an expensive resort area without really any true crime, this was the place where they botched the Kobe Bryant rape case, I went to high school with the girl who accused him and she told people later it was consensual. Anyway that was his official cause of death, long story short but he had been bugging me for heroin which I was working on getting off slowly and reducing my use and only driving the 110 miles each way to Denver once a week with the limited money I made as a hostess in a ski town.  I finally caved and gave him the tiniest amount of mine and told him to wait for me for tomorrow,


WARNING- CW/trigger for sexual violence- Discussing a violent sexual assault I was victim of.

Spoiler

I was deathly sick that night. I later learned I was pregnant from my boyfriend but it was because two months earlier I was violently attacked and raped and drugged when I went to a local bar. Since I'm one of the few people who actually grew up there and didn't recently move, I know tons of people and the friends I went with are used to me disappearing with another group. Anyway I woke up in a strange apartment with a guy on top of me raping me. As soon as he saw me open my eyes he choked me unconscious. I came to later hurting, confused, and totally out of it. I grabbed what clothes I could find, they were torn up, and stumbled into the parking lot of the large apartment complex I grew up in, I didn't remember where I came from. A friend driving by stopped and helped me and insisted I go to Urgent Care the only medical treatment in town. There I found out I was drugged, my trachea was fractured or something, I had a hairline fracture on my skull and fractured ribs as well as bruises everywhere and I was in and out of remembering and understanding and being logical. Anyway the closest hospital that did SANE (sexual assault exams with certified nurses) was 65 miles away over a mountain pass. I didn't have a car but another friend insisted on driving me, I was lucky. The local hospital is one of the most expensive in the state, they have the top orthopedic surgeon for famous athletes but they can't bother to implement a very cheap and VERY much needed sexual assault exams. There's not buses or transportation, before my other friend showed up I was crying  because I couldn't get to this other hospital in another county. I was lucky the only road to get there wasn't closed, the pass often closes from September to May for snow and accidents. The SANE nurse I finally saw 8  hours later, gave me massive antibiotic shots and because this hospital was Catholic she couldn't give me Plan B, it was 2 am and the local grocery store did give it out for free for sexual assault victims but I couldn't wait for that and had to go home and wait another 12 hours to get Plan B and I had to pay for it out of pocket,. Argh.

Sorry that long point was why I wouynd up pregnant. We later found out it was my boyfriend's child and not my rapist's thank God. I stayed sober the rest of the pregnancy when I found out but before i knew I wasn't. That's why I went home to puke all night instead of staying with my friend. I told him to wait until tomororow when I came over to use but he didn't and died of having 7 diferent drugs in his system. But a month later they came to my work pretending to be there to talk about my rape and assault and after an hour of me sobbing, not on my psych meds, pregnant, they said oh we're here about ___ (my friend who died). I guess I said I feel awful it's all my fault, I don't remember. They arrested me and charged me with manslasughter, criminally negligent homicide and distribution of a schedule !, those are class 3, 4, and 5 felonies. Domestic violent and rape and crimes like that are lesser felonies than the "distribution". They never found any drugs on me, I wasn't a dealer but I had to plead out to that. They erased the entire tape about my rape said they never heard of it, the judge refused to let me submit the hospital records and the doctor that was willing to testify she treated me and called the local cops and they came and made a report. The DA's office had sent out a press release before the cops even contacted me saying I was responsible for selling lethal heroin across the state and was responsible for multiple deaths. They didn't even try to charge me with anything but it was a brand new DA and the DDA was an old schmuck who messed up his career and was obsessed with getting me so he could get a big conviction and show off.. 

The year and a half I was on pretrial, so still "innocent til proven guilty" I spent about $1,000 just calling into a private company and leaving my name on a message machine once a month, that "monitoring" cost $50 a month. Then I had to do 5 UAs a month at $25 a pop, all to the private for profit probation company. I probably spent at least $5k on that. My lawyer cost another $40k and that was a deal because my dad had helped him out in the past. After I pled out because they let a cop lie on the stand about cause of death despite the coroner report saying otherwise, saying I was never raped and I just confessed and in chambers right before the trial was supposed to start the judge (they had changed the judge, I was in the hospital for my autoimmune condition, an infection got into my lungs and spinal cord and I had like 10 surgeries and was in ICU for a month, on oxygen and all sorts of tubes, I guess during this time I had a court date, my lawyer submitted all the hospital records, I was in the only hospital in the county they knew where I was. When I finally went back to court in a wheelchair I was too week to push so my dad did, while my mom carried my oxygen and my IV pole because I needed 2 months of IV antibiotics I found out I had a warrant for my arrest. The DDA told the judge my lawyer was lying and I just tried to go to hospital to scam pills and they kicked me out. The judge took one look at me and told him to shut up and completely dropped everything. The next week I had a different judge, the one who was known as the biggest asshole in the 3 county area. He took me into his chambers before the trial was supposed to start and said if I wasted his time with a trial he would make sure I got DOC. DOC is department of corrections. That means state prison not county jail. I had no record, they found no drugs on me, I  had a baby boy and I was facing 35 years in prison with a minimum mandatory which they have on drug charges but not violent charges like murder and rape. It means you can't get parole or anything you have to serve those years no matter how good you are. That's why people charged with non violent drug crimes are stuck in jail while rapists, assholes who commit domestic violence and other violent criminals get our early because those crimes have no MMS. 

I was terrified so I pled out to the class 3 felony of distribution and got 90 days in jail (which because of my health I did with an ankle monitor at home) and 4 years of probation that turned into 5 1/2 with the 1 1/2 years of pre trial. My entire 20s were consumed by probation. I spent another $10k easily to the private companies doing UAs and monitoring ankle bracelets. That was $1250 just to "borrow/rent" the box that monitors you. They went ahead and set it up to my cell phone which costs an additional $11 a day. I was pissed and demanded they put it on my landline which was $8 a day. Some person with a GED (no offense to people who have their GED it's great to do, but these people shouldn't be running a probation office when the stakes are people's freedom.

It's ridiculous these private companies like GEO Corp run UAs and probation programs. They  only make money when people mess up and stay in the system longer.  Why are they in charge of rehabilitation when if people are successful  they lose money? It's like if you only paid teachers if they failed. It's a really awful exploitive system, I had a guy at an office double charge me for a UA. I got upset, asked for the charge in writing, saying for 5 months I'd paid half the price. Then he says if you don't pay me I'll fail you on your UA which mean you will likely go to jail for a probation violation. These guys get paid no more than what they make at Taco Bell but are in charge of people's lives and freedoms. It is fucked up beyond belief. But no one cares, if you bring it up people are like, well maybe you shouldn't have done drugs or whatever it was that got you in trouble. Like as soon as they charge you you lose all your basic rights and freedoms as an American citizen and people don't care. They think you don't deserve them and most of the people are in for solicitation, drug possession, non violent crimes where we're only hurting ourselves. But we're just society's trash.

I think all combined I probably paid at least $100 k and that was with me pleading out, Less than half was for my lawyer the rest went to the for profit probation corporations.  I've been sober for almost 5 years now and got "off paper" which means finished all my probation and monitoring and if you look me up it will show I'm no longer in the criminal justice system, since July 2019. Literally from 23 to 31 I was stuck in this program milking out my dignity and money.

I know sex offender programs cost even more. They should that's a totally different level of crime. And it's ironic because the GOP are the ones who are all for these private for profit probations and paroles and prisons, where they set people up for failure because they only make money if they stay in the system. If Josh is convicted which needs to happen if there's any justice in this world at all, he'll be experiencing that crap and it's stuff he supported arrogantly for years. He will pay sat least double or triple what I had to at the very least. Karma is a bitch.

[DarkAnts]

If Josh gets bail, I doubt he will be allowed to live in a house with minors. He will probably get supervised visitation with his children at first. He will have to work the CPS case plan to work towards home reunification. CPS doesn't need a guilty verdict to put a protect plan in place for the kids. 

[The Baby Humanist]

Perhaps this has been posted here already, but here's something on Reddit by an old family friend of the Duggars. The person was vetted and verified as real. It's pretty disturbing (TWs for abuse). And if you go to this person's profile, they have written quite a bit in the past few days.

 

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, The Baby Humanist said:

Perhaps this has been posted here already, but here's something on Reddit by an old family friend of the Duggars. The person was vetted and verified as real. It's pretty disturbing (TWs for abuse). And if you go to this person's profile, they have written quite a bit in the past few days.

 

How do you know they were vetted? I question anyone who uses TLC “gravy train” or “JB is all about the money.” Sounds like cut and paste from our speculation here...

Edited May 5, 2021 by neuroticcat
Typos

[FrumperedCat]

In the documents shared by @ofMatthew there is one requesting admittance Pro Hac Vice for Gelfrand. So looks like the need for local lawyers might be negated a fair amount. I wonder if they'd then be able to remove them all together. 

[Foudeb]

The kidults (and Anna) likely don't realise this, but they need to pull a Jill and get their money out of JB now before it's all gone defending Josh. 

It's hard as they aren't used to independence and are likely still coming to terms with everything but... It's now or never. 

[Idlewild]

Thanks to those who posted the documents.

My thoughts for what they’re worth-

Josh knew what the allegations were and so did his parents as they’d be bankrolling any defence. Yes JB & M are smug enough to lecture people at Big Sandy knowing what was going down. 
Anna knew but likely believes whatever BS Josh had told her about it not being him. 
The pregnancy announcement came out as they didn’t want it to be announced via bail application. Anna probably thought this baby should have a cheesy gender reveal as she shouldn’t be treated differently. 
His upbringing or whatever is not a defence - at best it’s mitigation, but it would mean throwing his parents under the bus.

I’m interested to know who the other employee is- with a gaggle of unemployed brothers it seems odd they’d hire help as they are known cheapskates and it’s hardly a large business. 
I wonder if their friend and CSA felon Caleb Williams worked there? But they would have known about his allegations in 2019?

The humpers will continue to defend him. 
 

[AussieKrissy]

26 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Thanks to those who posted the documents.

My thoughts for what they’re worth-

Josh knew what the allegations were and so did his parents as they’d be bankrolling any defence. Yes JB & M are smug enough to lecture people at Big Sandy knowing what was going down. 
Anna knew but likely believes whatever BS Josh had told her about it not being him. 
The pregnancy announcement came out as they didn’t want it to be announced via bail application. Anna probably thought this baby should have a cheesy gender reveal as she shouldn’t be treated differently. 
His upbringing or whatever is not a defence - at best it’s mitigation, but it would mean throwing his parents under the bus.

I’m interested to know who the other employee is- with a gaggle of unemployed brothers it seems odd they’d hire help as they are known cheapskates and it’s hardly a large business. 
I wonder if their friend and CSA felon Caleb Williams worked there? But they would have known about his allegations in 2019?

The humpers will continue to defend him. 
 

Mechelle and boob could not have known about Fucktards investigation. Remember their “to the best of our knowledge no one is under investigation.” Release after the raid? They are good christians and would not lie or cover anything up ever. They are just poor persecuted Christians. 

[Jinderella]

My husband is a specialist in recovering harddrives. We are not in the US and he does not work for the police, but in the past, he did help the police in our country with a CSA case (and I call it CSA, because a child in a swimsuit can be used as porn, but that’s not the kind of image we are talking about, we are talking about images of child abuse). 
Several posters have been asking about the accidental download defense. I can not believe that the prosecution in this case would be sloppy enough to make it possible. If you download something by accident (and this is not at all probable for CSA under 12, but if... ) people react in a specific way. They close the file. And the data will show this. It will show what was searched, what was offered, what was payed, what was opened, when it was opened, how long it was opened. It will be compared to what else was opened, payed, the work schedule. And some other things my husband won’t tell or I don’t understand. If the police go after you and make a case, they have a case. If there is a problem in the case, speaking for my country, it will be the warrant or some legal s#@t. 
If you even receive something horrible, close it and bring your device to the police. But I doubt anyone here received unwanted CSA under 12 in the last 5 years.

(With the exception of fanfiction. I’m still processing the possible illegitimacy of fanfiction in Canada. Are books like Lovely Bones prohibited there?)

Edited May 5, 2021 by Jinderella

[Idlewild]

@AussieKrissy- JB & M are lying liars who lied? Who’d have thunk? 

[justoneoftwo]

One thing to remember is that the safety of the M kids is not really what this judge is going to be focused on. It will be part of it, but not all, and it won't be the only place someone is worrying about them. This should have opened a CPS investigation and that is their focus. They could remove the kids, create safety plans and all that outside of what is decided tomorrow.

Edited May 5, 2021 by justoneoftwo
Typo

[Sky with diamonds]

Jim Bob and Michelle make me as sick as Josh does. Damn the three of them, because I doubt they are aware or care of the damage they caused. The damage they still cause for that matter. Throw money at it and pray it away is how they cope with it. 

[Petronella]

7 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Jill and Derek were lucky to get out when they did with what they did.  I suspect at least one of the other adult siblings/spouses is kicking themselves for not doing the same (my guess would be Jeremy for sure).

Apologies for asking a question that Duggar long-haulers have no doubt long-ago discussed. I'm new to the Duggar area of FJ and don't know how far back to look for clarification.

I hear people saying that Jill demanded her part of the TV money while none of the other kids have gotten theirs, even the adult kids. Can you explain? How is that possible? I thought the standard would have been to pay the kids into trusts that they get when they're eighteen, or something similar. Were they really NEVER paid by TLC? How is it that Jim Bob gets to hold onto ALL the money, and why do the other adult kids go along with that? Do they feel they're getting a benefit, like the money is going back into the home and they're still living there or something?

I'd very much appreciate any info or a pointer to where to find where this was previously discussed. Thank you!

 

[imokit]

The contract was such that all money went to JB to disburse as he choose.  They didn't have accounts or money set aside for the minors - otherwise how would you work out who got what - does each episode get divided equally between small children, do they get paid per min of screen time?  It would be confusing.

This continued into adulthood.  Derrick (and Jill) objected and said it wasn't fair for him to get all the money and wanted their own contract.  They threatened JB (with bad press/legal things/not entirely sure) and got some money and aren't on the show anymore.

We don't know what hooks JB is using to keep Jessa and the others in line.

[DarkAnts]

2 hours ago, Foudeb said:

The kidults (and Anna) likely don't realise this, but they need to pull a Jill and get their money out of JB now before it's all gone defending Josh. 

It's hard as they aren't used to independence and are likely still coming to terms with everything but... It's now or never. 

They may not have the financial means to do what Jill did. Their business are financed by Jim Bob. Their houses are owned or financed by Jim Bob. Jim Bob holds a lot of power over them by controlling their finances. Jill did not get much when she sued her parents. 
 

Jill and Derik also have support outside of the Duggar family. I don't know if the other kidults have that support system.

[Expectopatronus]

@Jinderella No, The Lovely Bones isn’t banned here but if you were to dress up to look like a child and take porn photos, that would be illegal.So is erotica that depicts sex with children.