William & Kate

[viii]

3 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I do think they should have gone all royal and given us an uniform and tons of jewels (Queen Mary style).

I don’t care if they prefer to wear outdoor stuff and be all country. That’s not what I want to see from a royal. I can have a stroll through the village for that.

While it would have been nice to see them both really decked out, it would have gone over horribly. William and Kate walk such a precarious ledge right now of balancing royalty and being common/relatable. If they had revealed a portrait where they were dripping in jewels, they would have been labelled as out of touch and ignorant, insensitive to the average person who is struggling to make ends meet in this economy. 

I really hope that once they are PoW, we get to see a little more glam, though. 

[just_ordinary]

I know. But honestly, they get that all the time anyway. And in the end they are out of touch and ignorant to a certain extent. Their whole lifestyle could be seen as insensitive as people struggle to make the ends meet. So why not stand by what you represent. They are insanely rich. Not Bill Gates level but still crazy for a normal person‘s standard. And those uniforms and jewels might rub some people the wrong way. So what? If you are confronted with such a big audience you are bound to offend someone. It’s tricky because people feel that they own us to be this and that. And they do but also they don’t. It’s a very grey area and I am not always sure what I think/where I would draw a line. It definitely changed and is not consistent.  I mean if Bill and Miranda would have gotten such a portrait hanging in some building because they went to school there, both wearing expensive stuff and maybe a big diamond necklace for her- no one would batted an eyelid. And while they put tons of money in good causes, it’s not as if they didn’t keep enough to still be richer than one can ever imagine. I have yet to hear about the rich person to make such drastic cuts and actions as some people expects the royals to do.

[viii]

The difference between William and Bill Gates is that Bill Gates earned his fortune. He worked his way up the ladder to the ridiculous level of success he has now. William received every privilege he has in life simply because he was born into it. They would be idiots to "stand by what they represent". It would be the quickest way to all the Commonwealth countries becoming republics. Majority of people don't want to see the royal family flaunting their wealth, which is why they work so hard to hone the relatable angle. It's a very damned if they do, damned if they don't lifestyle, but the royal family has gotten to where they are today by exploiting minorities and colonizing countless countries. They would be absolute fools to capitalize off that in 2022. 

[louisa05]

5 hours ago, Loveday said:

Considering who they are and what all they'll be doing for the rest of their lives, you'll definitely get your preferred portraits at some point. Uniforms stiff with medals and gowns encrusted and draped with enough jewels to make even Queen Mary proud! 😆

This. The artist said the idea was to capture them during this time as just the Duke and Duchess. All of that formality/grandeur will come later when they are Prince & Princess of Wales and King and Consort. 

[just_ordinary]

@viii well, I think the quicker all the remaining oversea territories don’t have the monarch as HoS the better for everyone involved. Maybe even more for the RF.

PC speech spoke for itself. I think the RF is of the same mindset. But it would look bad, so you just tell them how much you welcome all the republican movements. I mean the RF has nothing from keeping them on anymore. It’s more of a burden honestly.

Edited June 24, 2022 by just_ordinary

[prayawaythefundie]

47 minutes ago, viii said:

The difference between William and Bill Gates is that Bill Gates earned his fortune. He worked his way up the ladder to the ridiculous level of success he has now. William received every privilege he has in life simply because he was born into it. 

This and the royals can be voted out. That may happen one day. They would still be filthy rich if the monarchy were to be abolished but wouldn‘t have their public roles any longer.

People can hate succesful businessmen all they want but not vote them out. Look at Elon Musk. He‘s not exactly making friends at the moment but it won’t cost him a thing. Imagine being the heir to the British throne and losing it by making the public dislike you. 

[Jackie3]

6 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I mean if Bill and Miranda would have gotten such a portrait hanging in some building because they went to school there, both wearing expensive stuff and maybe a big diamond necklace for her- no one would batted an eyelid.

 Bill and Melinda earned their money. I'm not saying they always did the right thing, but they earned their money through hard work. William and Kate did not earn their vast wealth. They rely on government handouts.

That's why Bill and Melinda can flaunt their wealth and no one bats an eye. It's their wealthy, and they can do what they want with it. 

Wills and Kate, however, must scramble to please the public.  If they piss off the public, those handouts might shrivel up or even go away. They'd still be wealthy, of course, from all the handouts in the past, but I guess they want a steady stream of more millions each year.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Jackie3

[prayawaythefundie]

15 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

They'd still be wealthy, of course, from all the handouts in the past, but I guess they want a steady stream of more millions each year.

Like you said, they will never be short on money. It‘s about status. William was raised to believe that being king one day  is his big role in life / destiny / whatever you want to call it. Most people want to fill their life with purpose. If they get told they are meant to be something specific all their life and accept that, they will try to find meaning within their role. I think that is what we are seeing with William.

Harry has been told how his part is different because he is the spare. It is defined less clearly which made it harder for him over the years. He has rejected it and is trying to find meaning outside that role. 

 

[Jackie3]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:56 AM, just_ordinary said:

I do think they should have gone all royal and given us an uniform and tons of jewels (Queen Mary style).

Ah, they lack the courage for that. They depend on government handouts and don't want to piss off the public. 

What you want to see is a fantasy, and they can't provide that without damaging their income source. Follow the money! You could read some fairy tales instead (one with pictures), and look at pictures. The real royal family cares more about protecting its income source than providing you with royal fantasy porn.

 

[Jackie3]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:23 AM, viii said:

If they had revealed a portrait where they were dripping in jewels, they would have been labelled as out of touch and ignorant, insensitive to the average person who is struggling to make ends meet in this economy. 

I think they could be labeled that way anyway. How could you avoid being out of touch, living as they do? It's not even their fault. 

Back in the 1980s, Charles's valet used to stand in for the portrait painting. He'd get dressed in one of Charles' 44 (!) uniforms and pose for the painter. The rationale was, Charles' time was too valuable to do that.

Of course, this was only possible because they were the same height, age and build (this was one of the reasons the valet was hired, I believe). Obviously, this only worked when the painter was working below the. neck.

I wonder if Kate and Wills' servants stood in for them. Or is there a more modern substitute for having your valet pose in your uniform?

[samurai_sarah]

I wouldn't mind being paid for standing around.

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 6/26/2022 at 1:38 PM, Jackie3 said:

Back in the 1980s, Charles's valet used to stand in for the portrait painting. He'd get dressed in one of Charles' 44 (!) uniforms and pose for the painter. The rationale was, Charles' time was too valuable to do that.

Of course, this was only possible because they were the same height, age and build (this was one of the reasons the valet was hired, I believe). Obviously, this only worked when the painter was working below the. neck.

I wonder if Kate and Wills' servants stood in for them. Or is there a more modern substitute for having your valet pose in your uniform?

Still a better use of time than 80% of the responsibilities for most corporate jobs.  

[zee_four]

On 6/26/2022 at 10:36 AM, samurai_sarah said:

I wouldn't mind being paid for standing around.

When I first went to college I used to make extra money posing for art classes. I lived right next to RISD Rhode Island School of Design so there were a lot of classes that needed models!! The catch is you had to be naked but it wasn't too bad. Unless it was super cold, the old buildings on campus weren't the most well heated. It wasn't sexual at all and the students and teachers and other models were all super nice! 

[Jackie3]

On 6/27/2022 at 11:41 AM, Sarcastically spinster said:

Still a better use of time than 80% of the responsibilities for most corporate jobs.  

I don't think he wanted or sought after a corporate job.

 

On 6/28/2022 at 5:06 PM, zee_four said:

When I first went to college I used to make extra money posing for art classes. I lived right next to RISD Rhode Island School of Design so there were a lot of classes that needed models!! The catch is you had to be naked but it wasn't too bad. Unless it was super cold, the old buildings on campus weren't the most well heated. It wasn't sexual at all and the students and teachers and other models were all super nice! 

 

Personally, I think it would be fun to dress up in uniforms and pose as the Prince of Wales. That would be one of the perks of the job for me. 

He'd need some perks, since he started at 28 pounds a month, plus room and board, in 1966. That's the equivalent of 483 pounds a month today, or $585 per month. Really, a pittance. It doesn't surprise me that these people sell their stories when they leave. How can you save for retirement (or even buy necessities) on that kind of money?

By the time he left, around 1981, he was making 484 pounds per month, which would be 1719 pounds today, or $2000 a month in the US.

So after 12 years of service as Prince Charles' valet (plus previous service as a footman), Stephen Barry was making $24,000 plus room and board. He did get occasional gifts from Charles, but Stephen had to wait for them and hope for them, they were not guaranteed, they were like largesse.

He did not complain in his book about Charles (in fact, he constantly praised him), but I wonder why someone with such enormous wealth would treat those  around him so badly? Stephen did everything for Charles, and seemed to do it efficiently and well. They were the same age and became quite friendly, though Stephen always remembered his place. If I were vastly wealthy and had a loyal, efficient employee, I'd be ashamed to pay him such low wages. Especially when I could easily prevent it. 

When a person is given access to the royals, it is like giving them diamonds. They are paid very little but told not to sell the diamonds. Then the royals are surprised when that doesn't happen!

Edited July 1, 2022 by Jackie3

[prayawaythefundie]

I think the bad pay for working in a royal household is at least partly strategic. It practically guarantees only applicants who really want to work for the royals and are not just attracted to the paycheck. It probably gets them mostly loyal staff. Whether you approve of that tactic or not, it‘s not a coincidence.

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I think the bad pay for working in a royal household is at least partly strategic. It practically guarantees only applicants who really want to work for the royals and are not just attracted to the paycheck. It probably gets them mostly loyal staff. Whether you approve of that tactic or not, it‘s not a coincidence.

If you want to inspire loyalty, pay people fairly. When people don't have the money for basics, and they see their bosses living in luxury, it breeds resentment, not loyalty. Like how people feel towards CEOs with multi-million dollar salaries.

There's quite a high turnover at the Palace, and the staff is pretty young.  Once you have a family and kids, it's hard to live on substandard wages. And you don't want to. You want to be able to send your kids to a good preschool or have a reliable car.

If that is a Royal strategy, perhaps they should re-think it  I wonder how it feels to arrange for a royal's three day stay at a luxury resort while simultaneously wondering whether you can pay to have your car repaired. It's inevitable there's going to be theft, corruption, tell-all books. 

Opinions differ, but I'm in favor of paying people a fair wage. I support raising the minimum wage for example, because I see what a relief it is to people I know.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Jackie3

[tabitha2]

This? Is damn good place to start. Plus it looks terrific on a resume and manna for anyone who loves history. An ambitious Hard worker can go up working  for the Royals or go on to other fields with the experience. 

 

Housekeeping Assistant (Level 2 Apprenticeship)

Household / Department Master of the Household’s Office

Section / Branch Hospitality

Location Windsor Castle

Contract/recruitment type Permanent

Starting salary £19,140.09

Hours of work Full time, 5 days out of 7, Monday to Sunday

Important details:

All apprenticeships require candidates to gain a qualification in English and Maths. If you are successful but don’t already have these qualifications to the required level, we will support you to gain them as part of your apprenticeship.

You will be based mainly in either Windsor Castle or Buckingham Palace but you will be working across other residences throughout the year (approximately up to three months of the year).

The role is offered with live-in accommodation for which there is a salary adjustment. All meals will be provided and travel expenses are included.

Our comprehensive benefits package, includes 33 days holiday (inclusive of Bank Holidays), an employer pension contribution scheme, as well as a range of catering and recreational facilities.

£20,000 a year as an apprentice, with accommodation in Windsor Castle, and with times spent at other Royal Residences and all meals provided?. Sounds good to me.

Then you will make a load of contacts and having completed an apprenticeship with the UK Royal Family your CV will now more or less guarantee you an interview for any job you subsequently apply for.

 

[Jackie3]

7 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

£20,000 a year as an apprentice, with accommodation in Windsor Castle, and with times spent at other Royal Residences and all meals provided?. Sounds good to me.

 

Read it again.  You are wrong.

7 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

The role is offered with live-in accommodation for which there is a salary adjustment. All meals will be provided and travel expenses are included.

 

 

You missed the part about the "salary adjustment" if you choose to live-in.  That's an adjustment downwards,  to cover your room and board.

So live-in employees make far less than $19,000 pounds a year. The mighty 19,000 pounds is for those who pay for their own rent and food.

19,000 pounds is about $23,000 dollars or $1,916 a month. 

Can you even find a safe, clean apartment in Central London for $1916 a month? Even if you could, how would you pay for food, transportation and utilities? Central London is the most expensive part of this large city.

The Palace pays well below London's minimum wage, which is 11.05 pounds/hour. The above salary comes to 9 pounds per hour.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Jackie3

[rosamundi]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

The Palace pays well below London's minimum wage, which is 11.05 pounds/hour. The above salary comes to 9 pounds per hour.

This is an apprentice position and the NMW for apprentices varies from  £4.81 an hour up to £9.50 an hour depending on the age of the apprentice and if they're in the first year of their apprenticeship or not. The salary adjustment for the accommodation can't take the employee's pay below the appropriate NMW.

[prayawaythefundie]

15 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

If you want to inspire loyalty, pay people fairly. 

It does not work that way in my experience. There are tons of extremely well paid people who betray their employer. Loyalty - or a huge part of it - seems to be a character trait. If that‘s true (and I know, I‘m making an asumption here), you don‘t inspire loyalty at all, you can only try to select loyal people to work for you.

That said, there might be a way for the royals to offer better pay for their staff and still successfully pick loyal applicants. If so, they should look into it. Fair pay is a value in itself. I just don‘t think it makes (most) people more loyal to their employer. 

[Jackie3]

18 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

It does not work that way in my experience. There are tons of extremely well paid people who betray their employer. Loyalty - or a huge part of it - seems to be a character trait. If that‘s true (and I know,

Fair pay is certainly not a guarantee of loyalty. There are disloyal people who will cheat you, even when you treat them fairly and respectfully. However, paying someone fairly does increase your odds of loyalty. 

When they are underpaid, people generally feel pissed, disinterested, resentful, more likely to skip work and less invested in being part of the system. 

There was a poster who suggested that LOW pay would somehow increase loyalty. I understand royalists wanting to defend the Palace's actions, but that one is quite a stretch. I can't imagine any situation in which low pay would make me more loyal to my employer.

Most Palace workers never see the Royals, anyway, so it's not like you'd get the thrill of seeing Kate and Charlotte playing a game of Trouble. And since the Palace is known for it's low pay, future employers are going to offer you peanuts too.

Finally, a lot of the Palace jobs don't transfer well to public life. In fact, Charles' valet left partly because he realized that organizing Charles' 44 uniforms, or cataloguing his many birthday presents, was not a marketable skill. He decided he needed to get trained in something marketable before he got too old.

[Jackie3]

On 7/1/2022 at 2:12 PM, tabitha2 said:

£20,000 a year as an apprentice, with accommodation in Windsor Castle, and with times spent at other Royal Residences and all meals provided?. Sounds good to me.

 

Again, you failed to deduct the "salary adjustment" for room and board. Here's some information about that, from a former footman. It seems the Palace deducts about 2500 pounds per year ($3000)  for room and board.

Quote

My duties, on a £11,881 salary, cut to £9,338 after living costs, included manning the Grand Entrance and receiving and escorting guests.

This was in 2018. The footman had a salary of $11,200 or $933 a month, to pay for everything he needed except room and board.

This was actually a journalist who took a job as a footman in the Palace and exposed appalling security breaches. His fake reference was accepted without question. I think the Palace gets pretty desperate for staff, probably because of the pay. $933 a month in 2018! Female staff are paid even less (at least back in the 1990's, not sure about now)

I suppose if you are a young man, with no family, debt, height issues or heavy expenses, it could be a fun job for few years.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

12 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Finally, a lot of the Palace jobs don't transfer well to public life. In fact, Charles' valet left partly because he realized that organizing Charles' 44 uniforms, or cataloguing his many birthday presents, was not a marketable skill. He decided he needed to get trained in something marketable before he got too old.

He quit because Diana was making his life difficult. He knew Charles much better than she did and she didn’t like having him around. 

[Jackie3]

9 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

He quit because Diana was making his life difficult. He knew Charles much better than she did and she didn’t like having him around. 

Ah, well, I think it was a combination of things. Initially, he said it was because he was finding the job exhausting (Charles had a bed on planes when he traveled. His valet did not, and jet lag was not allowed to stop him from doing his job). He wanted to train for a real career. The job had changed after the marriage, and he didn't enjoy it as much.

Later on, he said a bit more. It did seem like Diana wanted Charles to make a break with some of his old staff. He reports Diana did not speak to him during his last few weeks of work (he had given six months notice to train his successor). He seemed to hold no grudges against her, and was pleasantly surprised at her friendliness to him after he left (not before, lol)

Quote

The Princess was not well disposed to people who had been part of his previous life. Though we did resent it to some extent, in retrospect her attitude was normal. She wanted the Prince to be all hers--fresh, clean and shiny, with the past finished and done. Not surprising for a nineteen-year old girl in love and with no experience of her own.

 

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:03 AM, Jackie3 said:

On 6/27/2022 at 2:41 PM, Sarcastically spinster said:

Still a better use of time than 80% of the responsibilities for most corporate jobs.  

I don't think he wanted or sought after a corporate job.

 

Additionally, though I know I'm wasting my time.  

It's recommended that lodging be about a third of your income.  Utilities about another 8-10%.  Food costs another 10-15%.  

So take the salary you're looking at and double it.  That's approximately the value of salary + room and board.  Doesn't look so terrible then.  

Also, your currency conversions are completely inconsistent, and clearly skew any way that you think makes the royals look worse.  

Deducting £2500 for room and board is equivalent to charging barely over £200 (so about $250) a month for room and board.  Considering the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in London is well over £1000, yeah, the royals are absolutely nickel and diming their staff and treating them horribly by only applying a £200/mo reduction that covers lodging *and* food.  

Maybe you should try letting go of your campaign against the royals and actually look at some cost of living numbers and see how much is actually being covered by the provided room and board.