Alyssa and John 8: Four Daughters, a New House, and a Pool

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Wow! UP must pay well. Can you even imagine popping out kid after kid and quitting a good job with benefits? What  skewed thinking. 

Whitney seems pretty dependent on him. I suspect she didn't like him being gone 50-60 hours per week while she wrangles three small kids. Frankly, I can see how that'd be difficult.

[CaptainFunderpants]

3 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Whitney seems pretty dependent on him. I suspect she didn't like him being gone 50-60 hours per week while she wrangles three small kids. Frankly, I can see how that'd be difficult.

Be even more difficult if/when someone gets sick or you have a high risk pregnancy and awful insurance.

He's leaving so many benefits for so many unknowns. I really hope they factored it all in. 

[DalmatianCat]

47 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

I think he became a cop after he married Whitney. When they were first married he ran for office right after he married. 

I looked it up...someone in his thread said ten years, but according to Google he graduated from the police academy in 2015. So he was a police officer for five years, plus or minus a few months. 
There could potentially be some problems being a police officer in a small town while also being on a reality tv show. If the tree business doesn’t work out he can always go back to the force. He’s still relatively young and it’s the most logical time to take a financial risk and it also gives him the option to be home with his kids more while they’re little if that’s what he wants. If he spends just five years in the tree business before switching back to police work, he’ll still have a decent pension, but in the meantime, he might have a higher earning ceiling between the boutique, the show, and the tree business (which could start to grow if he really works it). He surprised everyone here with this career jump, so he might still have a few more surprises down the road.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

He's also working for the family tree business, so um, yeah... HEADDESK

Didn't the Bates talk about no insurance in the old days? Danger???

I thought Zach thought for himself, but I guess not!
 

[AussieKrissy]

Those idiots parents, a pool and babies that can’t swim, also to hAve the said idiot parents believe that kids will just obey and stay away, is a recipe for disaster. 

[Melissa1977]

4 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Those idiots parents, a pool and babies that can’t swim, also to hAve the said idiot parents believe that kids will just obey and stay away, is a recipe for disaster. 

Exactly! Obedience doesn't protect the kids from slip and fall down in the pool!

A friend of me found her 3 year old daughter upside down in the pool. The kid was ok because she had just fallen, so she was in the water for seconds. It was a pool and garden full of adults but there was noise and nobody heard the splash of the kid falling. The girl didn't reacted at all when she fell. It happens sometimes when kids fall in the water, it's like they are too scared/surprised and do not react and drown! Even kids who know to swim.can have accidents and not know how to react. There are more death among kids who can swim that among those who cannot, because adults tend to relax if kids are food in swimming classes. 

 

[freethemall]

11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

He was a cop for 10 years? Isn’t his oldest kid about 6, so married 7 years? He was a cop for 3 years as a single guy? 

Thinking about the photos Trace and Lawson have posted in volunteer gear that makes them look like they work in law enforcement, I'm guessing Zach had some of that for a few years which he's counting towards the actual job.

[OHFL2009]

42 minutes ago, freethemall said:

Thinking about the photos Trace and Lawson have posted in volunteer gear that makes them look like they work in law enforcement, I'm guessing Zach had some of that for a few years which he's counting towards the actual job.

Zach said 10 years in the episode when he was talking about leaving; you're probably right that some of that time was before he went through the police academy. I've only ever seen Lawson in his Constable gear; Trace has been shown in the same type of uniform as Zach, but as far as I know he never went to the academy, so maybe their county has a reserve program Zach was a part of before going through the Academy. 

[MaryOrMartha]

The one thing I respected about them was that Zach had an actual paying job in a (mostly) respected profession. Family is a priority, for sure, and policing with a young family at home is a big deal. I have relatives who have spoken about their own personal experiences and they've said it changes you as a person, and certain things hit harder when you've got kids at home.

When he spoke about it at length, what did he say?

[WiseGirl]

11 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

He’s still relatively young and it’s the most logical time to take a financial risk and it also gives him the option to be home with his kids mor

You are looking at it is a career change. I'm seeing it as following his father's great example of quitting a job and joining the grifting train. My money is on the grifting because this is fundie land where they don't work for anybody.

[Jackie3]

33 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

You are looking at it is a career change. I'm seeing it as following his father's great example of quitting a job and joining the grifting train. My money is on the grifting because this is fundie land where they don't work for anybody.

I don't think it's a logical time, when you have four small children with many needs, and a new house. A logical time would've been when he was single, or before the kids.

[rebeccawriter01]

12 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I don't think it's a logical time, when you have four small children with many needs, and a new house. A logical time would've been when he was single, or before the kids.

I agree. If he wanted less demanding, he might have considered moving to a municipal agency rather than county sheriff's office or even getting his certification to teach at the academy. Blount County isn't a horrible commute from Anderson County for such a role. 

11 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Those idiots parents, a pool and babies that can’t swim, also to hAve the said idiot parents believe that kids will just obey and stay away, is a recipe for disaster. 

I remember an episode where Whitney was taking Bradley and Erin was taking Carson to swimming lessons. Erin made a comment that Kelly Jo and swimming, as Jeb and Judson were there and a few years older than Bradley and Carson. "Mom has always been very overly cautious around water. I think I feel more secure knowing that Carson will know how to swim at a younger age." 

Granted that seems to fly in the face of the episodes we've seen with the kids at the lake and the various pool parties. 

While these people put a lot of stock in obedience, they don't seem to realize that children are naturally curious and a simple don't do that won't work. Screaming and yelling at a child to behave is not going to work either. Most children can't define or understand the word behave. You have to give more concrete instructions. Rather than saying to settle down, it's easier for him or her to hear that right now is the time we are going to sit in a chair and read. Same with the pool. Set rules. We don't run when we can see the pool. We don't go inside the fence unless we can touch mommy or daddy's hand at the same time. And then reinforce those ideas. My girls are told we don't run when the pool is in our sight. If and when they do run inside the area with the pool, then we go back inside. It's a hard rule, as my mother would say. 

The pool should have a sturdy boundary fence, a lock, and preferably an audible alarm that would notify Alyssa and John to it opening or someone climbing on it. This should have been a first priority for their renovations and not something they will get around to eventually.  

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Whether Zach begins grifting remains to be seen (although will shock no one). A tree business can be legitimate work if you're actually taking jobs. I do hope he has insurance independently for the family.

I remember swimming in the neighbor's pool as a kid with her mom inside the house! We were no more than 8. Gives me chills to think about that now. I was not a strong swimmer til grad school.

Edited April 11, 2021 by GuineaPigCourtship
Added more thoughts.

[SassyPants]

I literally can’t imagine a single wage earner with 3 small kids, a pregnant wife and all the other financial obligations quitting a good job. The tree service did not seem like a secure business when it was only Gil’s family to support. A man in his situation really does not have the latitude to quit a decent job in lieu of a dream In the real world- how many others are required to work long hours? Sorry, many of these folks are seemingly  allergic to sustained work.

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

A tree business can be legitimate work if you're actually taking jobs. I do hope he has insurance independently for the family.

This.

I don’t get all the hand wringing. I don’t think he and Whitney would have gone for this if they thought it would lower their income. I think they like their standard of living. After running the boutique and seeing Bobby and Kelton running their plumbing business (I saw a story Josie did and from what Kelton said they’re incredibly busy and the business is going well...they have four full-time trucks and a new office), Zach probably has a good idea of what it will take for the company to be successful and where his dad went wrong when he was running it. He lives in Tennessee, there’s lots of trees. Obviously I’m in the minority, but I think he can make a really good go of this.

I can also see him trying it for a few years, then moving on to something else if it doesn’t work out. I actually think that joining the police force, putting in a good five years, and then moving on shows that Zach is open to changing things if it would benefit his family and won’t get stuck in a rut if something isn’t working.

[GreenBeans]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Exactly! Obedience doesn't protect the kids from slip and fall down in the pool!

It’s abstinence teaching all over. Same flawed argument. 

[SassyPants]

5 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

This.

I don’t get all the hand wringing. I don’t think he and Whitney would have gone for this if they thought it would lower their income. I think they like their standard of living. After running the boutique and seeing Bobby and Kelton running their plumbing business (I saw a story Josie did and from what Kelton said they’re incredibly busy and the business is going well...they have four full-time trucks and a new office), Zach probably has a good idea of what it will take for the company to be successful and where his dad went wrong when he was running it. He lives in Tennessee, there’s lots of trees. Obviously I’m in the minority, but I think he can make a really good go of this.

I can also see him trying it for a few years, then moving on to something else if it doesn’t work out. I actually think that joining the police force, putting in a good five years, and then moving on shows that Zach is open to changing things if it would benefit his family and won’t get stuck in a rut if something isn’t working.

Here’s to hoping he has more gumption in terms of the tree business, than his dad-

[AussieKrissy]

Is it BEC to be like wtf does a six year old need with mascara on a daddy daughter date? Oh and why has she got an adult size hand bag. Kids size ones are a dime a Dozen and super cute and super cute. Drop a hint and tiki will buy you some. 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Is it BEC to be like wtf does a six year old need with mascara on a daddy daughter date? Oh and why has she got an adult size hand bag. Kids size ones are a dime a Dozen and super cute and super cute. Drop a hint and tiki will buy you some. 

Oh the creepy dates. Make up, flowers and forced conversation again? It's not a daddy-daughter date, it's a training to set how romantic dates must be. Dad plays the boyfriend role, child plays the girlfriend role. Creepy creepy ultracreepy.

How don't they see it? Why can't they do a normal date like all the rest of us do? It's perfectly possible to date your child, dress nice and do a special activity without making it a romantic date!!! 

[SorenaJ]

Disclaimer: I am coming at this from someone who grew up in a country with a large safety net if you fail, so it might not be directly comparable to for example, an American's, experience: (also I haven't watched the clip, just wanted to weigh in)

Good for Zach for taking care of his mental health. Working these long hours with varying shifts can be damaging to your mental health, so if Zach applied for flexible working + fewer hours worked, as wasn't granted it by his work for some reason, then maybe he did what he had to, to take care of his mental health. Improving your mental health, could also improve your physical health, meaning he might not end up using his insurance that much, because less doctors visits. 

I would assume he would be able to get some sort of insurance as self-employed, and if Zach has excellent work ethics, he would probably be able to have a successful tree business, where he is more in charge of his own hours. 

I hope he is not in it for the grifting, but because he wants and thinks that he can turn the tree business around. 

[Tatar-tot]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:56 AM, Tdoc72 said:

In their latest vid (Zoey’s 3rd birthday), I noticed at one point Zoey is outside on the porch alone with the pool fence wide open.  John and Alyssa are both in the house w/Maci and the other two girls (or anyone else—Alyssa says the party’s over) aren’t around. So very dangerous.  They need to be paying much closer attention. 
I also wonder if they are leaving that living room empty forever or are waiting on furniture. The little spot off the kitchen looks odd too w/ just a kids picnic table. I’d probably put a small table and chairs there.  I also think the pantry looks strange w/no doors. The whole first floor looks empty. 

Freaking day - I have been living in our house for 20 years & still decorating.  They have been in for less than a month.  Give them some time.

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Is it BEC to be like wtf does a six year old need with mascara on a daddy daughter date? Oh and why has she got an adult size hand bag. Kids size ones are a dime a Dozen and super cute and super cute. Drop a hint and tiki will buy you some. 

She put mascara on the four-year old for a daddy-daughter date. By six, I'm surprised there are no false eyelashes. 

I also think that for a daddy-daughter date for a six-year old, a pair of jeans and boots would be more appropriate for something like horseback riding or a trip to the amusement park. It's grownups who generally like to go out and sit quietly in a restaurant. I mean, all kids are different, but it seems like the template for this date is dress up, put on makeup, receive flowers from your "date", and get junk food or eat at a restaurant.

[sparrow]

11 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Is it BEC to be like wtf does a six year old need with mascara on a daddy daughter date? Oh and why has she got an adult size hand bag.

Meanwhile the song playing over the insta story is "Don't you ever grow up." Don't they see the irony that they are coaxing those girls to grow up too fast by having such adult rituals? There was nothing kid-like about that date except for the size of the clothing and shoes.

[nausicaa]

On 4/11/2021 at 2:32 PM, DalmatianCat said:

This.

I don’t get all the hand wringing. I don’t think he and Whitney would have gone for this if they thought it would lower their income. 

I can go either way on this one. It's certainly not the dumbest financial decision a Fundie has made (looking at you Rods) but I can see where it gives people pause. When Gil was running the business ten years ago, he needed to borrow grocery money from Lawson. Has it prospered that much since? It's dangerous, physically demanding work that could easily leave him injured and on permanent disability (granted, police officer carries its own dangers). 

And for the people saying he should just carry some insurance-- for a family of five that is going to run over a thousand dollars a month. Does the tree service pay 12k to 15k more a year than his police job? He also won't have access to any company matches or tax breaks for his retirement, only a private IRA, and he will need to pay for his own life insurance policy.

But my biggest hesitation in all of this is what I know about Gil and Kelly. I can certainly understand not wanting to continue the hours and stress of a cop. But he had other job options. How much of this was Kelly pulling the same manipulative crap she pulls when her daughters are courting? I think Kelly gets an idea and is like a terrier relentlessly digging for a bone. She also clearly likes having all her adult kids nearby and in full step with the family program. 

[BeccaGrim]

Just watched her video where she is back to working out. And has the kids sitting on the edge of the pool while she works out. Okay. She's one room away. But, she keeps turning her back on them.  They have on those arm floaties. Doesn't she realize how quickly one of those little girls could be in serious trouble?