Dillards 88: 'Cause We're Living in a World of Fools

[lexiloumarie]

4 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

That sounds like a dig at Jana to me. 

And I notice all of the options for their daughter has her married. I’ll hold my cheers until she can also be single, gay and an atheist. 

I doubt that would ever happen, they are still devout Christians even if they aren't fundie. I'd imagine they would be okay with a single daughter as long as she was truly single - no premarital sex allowed. They've come a long way on some things but even mainstream Christianity seems to have quite a few hang ups with sex.

[justmy2cents]

I don’t think that was a deliberate jab at Jana. I think that it was something they threw out there without thinking about Jana and how it might sound. A coworker of mine sometimes talks about a family member who’s 28 and still single (ooh, the horror) and how she better hurry up before she gets left on the shelf, without any consideration towards my still almost 54 yo single self. 

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

That sounds like a dig at Jana to me. 

And I notice all of the options for their daughter has her married. I’ll hold my cheers until she can also be single, gay and an atheist. 

They alluded to not being married. They didn’t directly say never marrying but they alluded to it in the part about not sitting in their house at 30 because you’re not. 
I think it’s asking a lot that they sufficiently address every possible outcome in these informal videos. It’s not a setting where they’re formally determining their parenting plans or formally declaring positions they must adhere to for life. 
But clearly that’s just me. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

2 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I don’t think that was a deliberate jab at Jana. I think that it was something they threw out there without thinking about Jana and how it might sound. A coworker of mine sometimes talks about a family member who’s 28 and still single (ooh, the horror) and how she better hurry up before she gets left on the shelf, without any consideration towards my still almost 54 yo single self. 

Agree, I interpret this as a dig at Boob for not allowing unmarried Jana to live on her own terms. Poor delivery tho, because some will interpret it as a shot fired at Jana. 

[clueliss]

The whole thing felt like a dig as JB because the overall message as I saw it was that children shouldn't be living at home forever as JB seems to have encouraged ALL his unmarried kids to do.  And it felt like the independent bit could have included the dependence of the boys and the inlaws on JB for financial support.

[TuringMachine]

15 hours ago, lexiloumarie said:

It's none of our business but I really wonder what all went down around Sam's birth/the TLC spilt. Were they already done at that point and that's why Derek lashed out at an innocent child on twitter - they were already fired?  Did they get blame placed on them for not trusting God with something with the birth and peaced out? So many questions.

I also like that Jill is still Jill. Saw a little bit of the bossy big sister when he was like 'i have no real opinion on the old earth/young earth debate' which to me is healthy. She's still the same person - just a somewhat healthier world view. 

I"m not so sure they were fired anymore. I mean TLC didn't care about covering up child molestation, why would they care about cyber bulling a teenager? I could see Jill and Derick quitting and TLC seeing it as an easy way to sidestep that controversy without having to actually do anything. 

In one of their Q&A's Jill said they would only come back on the show if they could make sure they had "information and control". Makes me think around the time of Sam's birth is when she figured out she should have been paid for all her years on the show.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Jill once responded to a fan’s question on IG, stating that they ‘stepped back shortly before the birth of our second child’.  This supports Derick’s assertion they weren’t fired. Derick didn’t start rage-tweeting until after Sam was born...there may have been some fallout from their decision going on at that time. 
 

 

[MaryOrMartha]

5 hours ago, louisa05 said:

They alluded to not being married. They didn’t directly say never marrying but they alluded to it in the part about not sitting in their house at 30 because you’re not. 
I think it’s asking a lot that they sufficiently address every possible outcome in these informal videos. It’s not a setting where they’re formally determining their parenting plans or formally declaring positions they must adhere to for life. 
But clearly that’s just me. 

I agree. I did note that Jill said "stay at home mom. Or working mom. Or no kids!" It is refreshing to hear a Duggar talk about different choices. The video did make me wonder if Jill would be open to continuing her education or getting a job outside of the home. Perhaps not if they still have Sam at home and are planning on another baby (soon, I assume).

[neurogirl]

Delete if this is too off-topic/shouldn't be brought up, but on reddit there was a photo recap of the wisdom teeth removal episode and holy hell it presents differently now knowing what we know. Jill is terrified of getting her wisdom teeth out, but her reasoning seems to be going under anesthesia, not needles. Whatever the reason, JB & M are doing a less-than-zero job of helping their teen daughter through it. I hadn't thought about how the family handled trauma would bleed over into seemingly unrelated things, but I hope Jill's therapist is excellent and that one day she reads JB to filth for all the crap she lived through.

https://old.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/m48v81/18kac_season_2_episode_11_under_the_knife_a_recap/

[SassyPants]

Pretty clear that Dereck believes strongly that it’s a parent’s  job to educate and guide their children with the goal of those kids becoming independent, contributing members of society. This is the antithesis of JB’s approach. Again, had DD’s father still been alive or his mother well at the time of their engagement, I have doubts that these 2 would be married. OTOH, I think DD has helped Jill, immensely. With DD’s support and guidance, Jill is being exposed to a more vivid and enriching environment and life. I definitely see DD supporting higher education and a career for Jill, if that’s her desire. I wish Jill would learn how to state a belief and then move on. The way she approached the question on the age of the Earth was painful to watch. I will give DD props for being very patient. I think they are growing together. He’s learned to work on his patience, and she’s become more independent. 

Also... this is where folks who do not appreciate the gray areas get into trouble. If the Bible is 100% true and factual, how come Jill and DD don’t 100% agree on the message? Without gray, there would be no disagreement or questioning. The same holds true for all the people who yammer that SC justices rely solely on the COTUS auto make decisions. Um...if that were the case, there would be zero dissent. 

[TheRadleyPorch]

14 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

That sounds like a dig at Jana to me. 

And I notice all of the options for their daughter has her married. I’ll hold my cheers until she can also be single, gay and an atheist. 

All of their options do have her married eventually, but Derick did say something like "maybe she wants to live independently and work as an engineer for a few years before getting married, that's fine too." I'm sure they wouldn't be okay with her not being a virgin during those engineering years (or gay or an atheist, certainly!) but that is pretty huge progress.

Another thing that really stood out to me was when they were talking about the big house and Derick said "there's a lot of triggers there." Maybe the bar is too low but with so much vitriol and mocking of "trigger warnings" in our society I found it quite refreshing to hear Derick speak about triggers matter-of-factly and respectfully.

I like their dynamic, at least what we can observe of it, and they've had so much growth. But it does makes the lack of belief in evolution all the more disappointing. Baby steps, I know.

[Iamtheway]

52 minutes ago, TheRadleyPorch said:

All of their options do have her married eventually, but Derick did say something like "maybe she wants to live independently and work as an engineer for a few years before getting married, that's fine too." I'm sure they wouldn't be okay with her not being a virgin during those engineering years (or gay or an atheist, certainly!) but that is pretty huge progress.

Oh yes, every step in the right direction is awesome! And every step makes it easier for their kids to take additional ones.

Jill and Derrick might never be ok with one of their kids being gay or atheist, but Israel and Sam might be because they got the education and experience their cousins lack. 

Baby steps indeed. 

[Silas]

I watched it yesterday and I didn't take Derrick's words as a dig at Jana. Didn't he say something about being 30 and living in your mom's basement? (Or is my memory that bad?!) IDK, but whatever he said kinda painted the picture of those forever slacker types and I think they both know that Jana isn't exactly mooching off mommy and daddy - she's raising their children for them.

I like that it seems they're okay disagreeing about bible interpretations. Jill thinks there's a young earth, Derrick is undecided, and she isn't taking his word as the mouth piece of God. They will probably never align with my beliefs about many things but at the very least it seems they're both "free" enough to form their own beliefs and that's good news. Their kids will have even more freedom and instead of generations of abuse it could very well be generations of healthy growth.

[Satan'sFortress]

Who would have imagined a year or two ago that we'd be so impressed with Derrick? I am, though. I came to FJ admittedly in part for the snark, but also because I really am interested in how people live in these religions, and how some get "free." I have been genuinely intrigued by the Dillards' growth as well as their somewhat gentle exposure of the Duggar's dark side. In many ways, the Dillards have become one of the more interesting families we follow. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Wow, it’s painful to watch intelligent people try to reconcile the inerrancy of the Bible with basic science. “I’ve been too busy to think about it” is a cop-out, Derick.

[louisa05]

On 3/22/2021 at 2:02 AM, Iamtheway said:

That sounds like a dig at Jana to me. 

And I notice all of the options for their daughter has her married. I’ll hold my cheers until she can also be single, gay and an atheist. 

This doesn’t sit right with me. A friend of mine who left her Fundie upbringing has gone on too often about wishing one or both of her daughters were gay or trans as if that is the real proof she left it all behind. Why do kids have to prove it? Even hypothetically? 
 

And I’ve said it dozens of times in this thread. At their age and stage of life, my now extreme leftist pagan friend and her husband were exactly where Derick and Jill are now. 

[RosyDaisy]

I think the point being made is a daughter being loved and accepted for being single, fay, and atheist; not wishing she were. 

[SassyPants]

11 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Wow, it’s painful to watch intelligent people try to reconcile the inerrancy of the Bible with basic science. “I’ve been too busy to think about it” is a cop-out, Derick.

For a 30 something YO, life long Christian, it was a weak answer.

[louisa05]

37 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

For a 30 something YO, life long Christian, it was a weak answer.

I’m a nearly 50 year old lifelong Christian. I believe God was the catalyst of creation but we do not know the means and evolution of species was part of his plan. I’ve never researched or obsessed about it or given it too much thought. I have in fact long thought that the obsession with it in fundamentalist and evangelical circles is pointless. 
So apparently I’m a bad Christian too. Good to know. 
I suspect this is another topic where Jill and Derick are examining what they believe as they grow away from what they were taught. He seems to be someone who reads and looks at different points of view as he goes through this reconstruction of faith. Saying he hasn’t had time to do that while a married father of two young children who is in law school seems reasonable. Or he may think it’s not the most important topic he’s wrestling with. 

[SassyPants]

11 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I’m a nearly 50 year old lifelong Christian. I believe God was the catalyst of creation but we do not know the means and evolution of species was part of his plan. I’ve never researched or obsessed about it or given it too much thought. I have in fact long thought that the obsession with it in fundamentalist and evangelical circles is pointless. 
So apparently I’m a bad Christian too. Good to know. 
I suspect this is another topic where Jill and Derick are examining what they believe as they grow away from what they were taught. He seems to be someone who reads and looks at different points of view as he goes through this reconstruction of faith. Saying he hasn’t had time to do that while a married father of two young children who is in law school seems reasonable. Or he may think it’s not the most important topic he’s wrestling with. 

If he had mentioned that he was rethinking this question as part of a growing and restructuring process, I would agree with you, but to me, he did not come off like that. Their conversation was quite muddled, IMO. My comment is reinforced by the fact that they both reiterated that they believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. If that’s truly the case and your belief system, answer the question within that framework.

In addition, where did anyone say anyone was bad? If you reread my comment it says a weak answer, and nothing about a person.

[Lynn]

I almost never post here, but I'm a long-time reader. So hello!

One thing that stood out to me about this video is how Jill and Derick both sort of interrupt each other as they're discussing. Not in a rude way, in a normal way. It's so nice to see her be able to speak for herself instead of just clamming up and gazing adoringly at him any time he is talking!

[Johannah]

Derick’s (liberal, evolution-teaching) high school biology teacher is a close friend of my dad’s. He and his wife were invited to and attended J & D’s wedding.  The teacher said that Derick was a good student and he clearly was close enough to him to be invited to the wedding (I know they invited eleventy thousand people, but still, I doubt he invited every teacher he’s ever had).
 

Anyway, my point is that Derick has been taught evolution, he’s not dumb, and he had enough respect for/rapport with this teacher to keep him in his life rather than just dismiss him. And now he has acquired even more education in a secular setting. All of those things give me hope for Derick’s critical thinking ability and his future progression philosophically and theologically, as well as the impact that might have on Jill. 

[SassyPants]

10 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Derick’s (liberal, evolution-teaching) high school biology teacher is a close friend of my dad’s. He and his wife were invited to and attended J & D’s wedding.  The teacher said that Derick was a good student and he clearly was close enough to him to be invited to the wedding (I know they invited eleventy thousand people, but still, I doubt he invited every teacher he’s ever had).
 

Anyway, my point is that Derick has been taught evolution, he’s not dumb, and he had enough respect for/rapport with this teacher to keep him in his life rather than just dismiss him. And now he has acquired even more education in a secular setting. All of those things give me hope for Derick’s critical thinking ability and his future progression philosophically and theologically, as well as the impact that might have on Jill. 

Intellectually speaking, DD is likely one of the brightest, if not the brightest person, within the Duggar’s extended family. I think he displays concrete critical thinking skills. However, I think DD is walking a very fine line with Jill. It had to have been very difficult when he actually got to know Jill after their wedding. It’s clear the Dillards made their kids’ education a priority, and we have heard JB’s thoughts on education. Such a mismatch of philosophies has to be hard on a new marriage, and this is without new babies, parental illness, molestation, job loss (TLC for a time in 2015 after DD had already quit WM) and major surgeries. Since the Dillards are in therapy, it shows that they are both open to change and healing.

[seraaa]

21 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Derick’s (liberal, evolution-teaching) high school biology teacher is a close friend of my dad’s. He and his wife were invited to and attended J & D’s wedding.  The teacher said that Derick was a good student and he clearly was close enough to him to be invited to the wedding (I know they invited eleventy thousand people, but still, I doubt he invited every teacher he’s ever had).
 

Anyway, my point is that Derick has been taught evolution, he’s not dumb, and he had enough respect for/rapport with this teacher to keep him in his life rather than just dismiss him. And now he has acquired even more education in a secular setting. All of those things give me hope for Derick’s critical thinking ability and his future progression philosophically and theologically, as well as the impact that might have on Jill. 

This.

Also there are many people who ascribe to their type of Christianity (call it it conservative evangelicalism, call it fundie light christianity, you know what I mean) and who participate in "the world" and in mixed or even secular contexts while still ascribing to literalist interpretations of the Bible. It's a kind of Biblical Fundamentalism, but it's not separatism in the way that Jill experienced as she was growing up.

This isn't a new point or anything, but it's different for Jill because she's potentially putting herself in situations where this belief system isn't shared by everyone.

Edited March 23, 2021 by seraaa

[SassyPants]

12 minutes ago, seraaa said:

This.

Also there are many people who ascribe to their type of Christianity (call it it conservative evangelicalism, call it fundie light christianity, you know what I mean) and who participate in "the world" and in mixed or even secular contexts while still ascribing to literalist interpretations of the Bible. It's a kind of Biblical Fundamentalism, but it's not separatism in the way that Jill experienced as she was growing up.

This isn't a new point or anything, but it's different for Jill because she's potentially putting herself in situations where this belief system isn't shared by everyone.

And IIRC, the Dillards attend Cross Church. I know a family that attends that church, and while they are devout, they live in the more mainstream world (educated parents, dual income, 3 kids, public schools, the kids have friends, play sports...). This is an 180 from how Jill was raised and experienced religion.