Dillards 88: 'Cause We're Living in a World of Fools

[Grace]

I don't think "I haven't had time to think about it" is a cop-out at all. I think he finds making a decision on what the Bible means about a topic to be something that requires a lot of reading and research pondering and prayer. He's not going to make a judgement call without doing those things and he's in the middle of law school with no time to put towards it. 

This tells me that Derek doesn't see believing in Old vs New Earth as a Salvation Issue. That alone is probably new and uncomfortable for Jill. 

[hand holder]

I just finished watching the video and  really think that Jill is coming more and more into her own self as time goes on. It really has not been a long time since they separated from the big house. Those of us who have been going through therapy for periods of time probably understand that its two steps forward, one step back, two steps to the left, one step forward, a step to the right, one more step forward, etc. The amount of progress that Jill has made is more than I ever thought she would this time three years ago. Not trying to leg hump, but I NEVER would have thought they would be talking about a daughter living on her own as an engineer and going to college and being single. 

[OldFadedStar]

Jill still lives in small town Arkansas. Unless Derrick gets a job that takes them to more of an urban liberal area then it’s gonna be a very slow process for Both of them. I live in Mississippi where it’s common to ask what church one goes to when you meet someone 

[seraaa]

39 minutes ago, Grace said:

I don't think "I haven't had time to think about it" is a cop-out at all. I think he finds making a decision on what the Bible means about a topic to be something that requires a lot of reading and research pondering and prayer. He's not going to make a judgement call without doing those things and he's in the middle of law school with no time to put towards it. 

This tells me that Derek doesn't see believing in Old vs New Earth as a Salvation Issue. That alone is probably new and uncomfortable for Jill. 

Derick's lean towards other theology or even "mainstream" evangelicalism vs Jill's specifically fundamentalist upbringing, so to speak

Edited March 23, 2021 by seraaa

[Grace]

4 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

Jill still lives in small town Arkansas. Unless Derrick gets a job that takes them to more of an urban liberal area then it’s gonna be a very slow process for Both of them. I live in Mississippi where it’s common to ask what church one goes to when you meet someone 

In my experience it's the people who do the deconstruction slowly who end up tolerable to be around. The ones who jump in the deep end straight away tend to just swing fundamentalist about something else and end up harsh and grating and rude. Those are the ones who don't work thru their trauma and end up taking it out on other people.l just from a different vantage point. Jill seems to be picking carefully at the knot to salvage what threads she can instead of throwing the whole thing in the bin.

 

ETA...small town Arkansas depends on your frame of reference. The area she lives in is one of the most liberal in the state and Derek's current social structure is University students. Not your typical Arkansas experience

Edited March 24, 2021 by Grace

[Johannah]

6 minutes ago, Grace said:

ETA...small town Arkansas depends on your frame of reference. The area she lives in is one of the most liberal in the state and Derek's current social structure is University students. Not your typical Arkansas experience

My dad lives in northwest Arkansas and most of the rest of my family lives in central Arkansas. It’s definitely still Republican Bible-belt conservative, but I agree that it has a more cosmopolitan feeling than the rest of the state. Part of it is the university influence and part of it is the influx of “ex-pats” from more urban, liberal parts of the country due to Wal-Mart’s headquarters being based there. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

5 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

Jill still lives in small town Arkansas. Unless Derrick gets a job that takes them to more of an urban liberal area then it’s gonna be a very slow process for Both of them. I live in Mississippi where it’s common to ask what church one goes to when you meet someone 

Not to mention that there is nothing wrong if they forever remain conservative Christians.  There may be social issues that they never personally approve of for personal or religious reasons. But if they learn to be tolerant, open minded, and willing to coexist with those who they do not share the same views they will be light years ahead of the majority of her family.  I do not know if they are truly there yet, but they are definitely heading in the right direction. The progress Jill has made in a few short years is truly remarkable.  

[ophelia]

11 hours ago, Grace said:

I don't think "I haven't had time to think about it" is a cop-out at all.

I have a BA in theology and the list of theological problems I haven't had the time to think about is loooooong.

If I ever inherited a huge amount of money or get rich some other way I'd probably ASAP start studying theology again. It is so much fun and so challenging and there is so much to learn. I loved it!

 

[SassyPants]

6 hours ago, ophelia said:

I have a BA in theology and the list of theological problems I haven't had the time to think about is loooooong.

If I ever inherited a huge amount of money or get rich some other way I'd probably ASAP start studying theology again. It is so much fun and so challenging and there is so much to learn. I loved it!

 

I wish DD would have said something like this, but maybe he tailors his answers to Jill’s, so that she doesn’t come off looking less informed or deep thinking.

[TooManyFlowers]

I used to live in Northwest Arkansas and Jill’s stated beliefs are very much the same as any typical conservative Christian in that area, especially at Cross Church. I do wonder about her friendships. I used to see her in pictures of mutual friends at women’s gatherings etc, but I haven’t seen her join them in quite some time.

[Grace]

5 minutes ago, TooManyFlowers said:

I used to live in Northwest Arkansas and Jill’s stated beliefs are very much the same as any typical conservative Christian in that area, especially at Cross Church. I do wonder about her friendships. I used to see her in pictures of mutual friends at women’s gatherings etc, but I haven’t seen her join them in quite some time.

It shockingly seems like they are taking CoVID seriously and keeping their "bubble" mostly to Derek's family and that one family she's good friends with and has playdates with a lot. I haven't seen her post any group event photos that I can think of. Aren't they even still doing mostly video church at home on Sundays?

[front hugs > duggs]

8 minutes ago, Grace said:

It shockingly seems like they are taking CoVID seriously and keeping their "bubble" mostly to Derek's family and that one family she's good friends with and has playdates with a lot. I haven't seen her post any group event photos that I can think of. Aren't they even still doing mostly video church at home on Sundays?

They also referenced keeping their bubble small in their video, and I was actually under the impression that they were doing this for their mental health and boundaries (Jill actually said threshold I believe in the video). *Speculation* I wonder if she felt she was close to someone who potentially used her? It just didn't seem that the small bubble was solely due to Covid, but I could be wrong!

[Mlissmartin]

9 hours ago, TooManyFlowers said:

I used to live in Northwest Arkansas and Jill’s stated beliefs are very much the same as any typical conservative Christian in that area, especially at Cross Church. I do wonder about her friendships. I used to see her in pictures of mutual friends at women’s gatherings etc, but I haven’t seen her join them in quite some time.

We've been in a pandemic for over a year

[AussieKrissy]

9 hours ago, TooManyFlowers said:

I used to live in Northwest Arkansas and Jill’s stated beliefs are very much the same as any typical conservative Christian in that area, especially at Cross Church. I do wonder about her friendships. I used to see her in pictures of mutual friends at women’s gatherings etc, but I haven’t seen her join them in quite some time.

Yeah there was that other mum with boys similar ages to her was it a Rachael? She was always at her place or had them at hers and that lady did look After the boys on occasion. Haven’t seen them in a while. But then again covid. Jill is the only one that seemed to have given a shit. 

[TooManyFlowers]

2 hours ago, Mlissmartin said:

We've been in a pandemic for over a year

I’m quite aware as a healthcare worker  

 

I guess I should have been more clear in that I noticed it shortly after Sam was born. 

[just_ordinary]

I think the best and realistic outcome for Jill and Derick would be to be good parents. I don’t think they will change their stance on most issues or stop voting for the conservative option. But if they enable their children to get a real education, to surpass them (something most of those Fundie fathers seem to be afraid of and I think that’s also very much true for Mr. Intellectual Jeremy) and can be accepting or at least tolerating when they choose different paths, find gentler approaches in their parenting methods that alone would be an amazing outcome.

Edited March 25, 2021 by just_ordinary

[Johannah]

I just watched the J&D Q&A video. I was struck by how uncomfortable jill was talking about the age of the earth question. A couple of times she said something to the effect of I just don’t like talking about it, and yeah, so, whatever, I have other things to think about. It must be pretty earth-shattering (pun intended  for someone raised making road trips to the creation museum and reading creationist “textbooks” to have this issue pushed and questioned. I have a conservative Christian cousin who once cried when I took her to The Natural History Museum and we walked through a visual diagram of geologic time because even just being exposed to an alternative was too threatening and upsetting to her. Jill is giving me some of the same vibes of being overwhelmed by having her worldview threatened. 
 

Also, I think Derick’s advocacy for women being self-reliant had to be heavily influenced by losing his dad and seeing his mom need to work to support their family. 

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, Johannah said:

I just watched the J&D Q&A video. I was struck by how uncomfortable jill was talking about the age of the earth question. A couple of times she said something to the effect of I just don’t like talking about it, and yeah, so, whatever, I have other things to think about. It must be pretty earth-shattering (pun intended  for someone raised making road trips to the creation museum and reading creationist “textbooks” to have this issue pushed and questioned. I have a conservative Christian cousin who once cried when I took her to The Natural History Museum and we walked through a visual diagram of geologic time because even just being exposed to an alternative was too threatening and upsetting to her. Jill is giving me some of the same vibes of being overwhelmed by having her worldview threatened. 
 

Also, I think Derick’s advocacy for women being self-reliant had to be heavily influenced by losing his dad and seeing his mom need to work to support their family. 

If that was the case, you would have thought DD would have chosen a spouse who also possessed the ability to support a family. Or used birth control from the beginning, waiting to procreate until his wife attained some marketable skills. Maybe DD thought the TLC gig would last forever? Maybe, when he met Jill, he was still grieving both the loss of his dad, and then his mother’s illness? 

[just_ordinary]

My impression was that Derick is not on the New Earth train but they chose not to discuss that topic a lot because they agree to disagree.

[OHFL2009]

8 minutes ago, Johannah said:

I just watched the J&D Q&A video. I was struck by how uncomfortable jill was talking about the age of the earth question. A couple of times she said something to the effect of I just don’t like talking about it, and yeah, so, whatever, I have other things to think about. It must be pretty earth-shattering (pun intended  for someone raised making road trips to the creation museum and reading creationist “textbooks” to have this issue pushed and questioned. I have a conservative Christian cousin who once cried when I took her to The Natural History Museum and we walked through a visual diagram of geologic time because even just being exposed to an alternative was too threatening and upsetting to her. Jill is giving me some of the same vibes of being overwhelmed by having her worldview threatened. 

I haven't watched the video, but in reading people's comments I wonder if the noncommittal answer that Derick gave was because he knows this is an uncomfortable topic for Jill, and one that they don't see eye to eye on, and he didn't want to put her on the defensive on camera. 

 

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

If that was the case, you would have thought DD would have chosen a spouse who also possessed the ability to support a family. Or used birth control from the beginning, waiting to procreate until his wife attained some marketable skills. Maybe DD thought the TLC gig would last forever? Maybe, when he met Jill, he was still grieving both the loss of his dad, and then his mother’s illness? 

I think that when Derick met JB and started getting to know Jill, he was looking for something to fill the void he felt in losing his father and his mother being sick, and he grabbed onto something that seemed to offer stability and a happy family life. But once his mother recovered and he was really in the thick of the day-to-day Duggar life, he realized it wasn't a perfect world and it wasn't the solution to his problems. 

[JMO]

I have definitely noticed that they are taking social distancing and that it was also easy to keep to his family since they are smaller, there is no emotional drama/trauma around it and they are also taking it seriously.  I suspect his mother's bout with cancer heavily influences their social distancing/masking.  

I haven't watched the video but I was thinking this morning about Jill.  On the one hand I'm still impressed that she is the one that has broken off.  She always seemed the most diligent and was her father's "Little Jillymuffin".  She literally had doctrine and obedience and "Honor thy father and they mother" beaten and drilled into her from infancy.  I do find it problematic that she frequently discusses the family divide and continues to put herself out on social media for clicks/attention. Buuut, this was also drilled into her from a young age.  In fact, she was expected to publicly air her traumatic births and film her kids and her home life constantly.  I hope that she continues to grow and develop and that her kids are given that chance too.  She is showing the other kids what they could do to separate and also how her parents would react.  I am interested to see how this continues to unfold. 

[kmachete14]

I just wanted to throw this out there: many people seem to have this fantasy dream of Jill going back to school or getting a job. However, I see that she is actually interested in her preschool homeschooling regimen, likes baking/cooking, enjoys her social media content creating, is learning how to have “me time,” goes to therapy, etc. She is clearly learning and challenging herself in many areas theologically. She enjoys family time when Derek is free. I don’t think she’d give those things up now in favor of going to school and getting a job. There’s also the cost to consider, and it seems creating a home, paying for Derek’s law degree, and prepping for their children’s future college is important to them right now. They also like to splurge on date nights together. 
 

Just a reminder that one’s worth isn’t defined by their ability to produce capitalist income, nor is it determined by their level of formal education. Jill can continue progressing without going to college or having a job. 

Being a stay at home mom IS a full time job.

Maybe one day she will go to college. But I hate the way of thinking that concludes that college or being a working mom is the “final step” in feminist liberation. It’s not. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by kmachete14

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

I just wanted to throw this out there: many people seem to have this fantasy dream of Jill going back to school or getting a job. However, I see that she is actually interested in her preschool homeschooling regimen, likes baking/cooking, enjoys her social media content creating, is learning how to have “me time,” goes to therapy, etc. She is clearly learning and challenging herself in many areas theologically. She enjoys family time when Derek is free. I don’t think she’d give those things up now in favor of going to school and getting a job. There’s also the cost to consider, and it seems creating a home, paying for Derek’s law degree, and prepping for their children’s future college is important to them right now. They also like to splurge on date nights together. 
 

Just a reminder that one’s worth isn’t defined by their ability to produce capitalist income, nor is it determined by their level of formal education. Jill can continue progressing without going to college or having a job. 

Being a stay at home mom IS a full time job.

Maybe one day she will go to college. But I hate the way of thinking that concludes that college or being a working mom is the “final step” in feminist liberation. It’s not. 

I agree, but with a caveat. I think every adult needs to have the ability to adequately support themselves or help to support their family, in the case that one of the 3 D’s happen (death, divorce or disability). It’s just the prudent thing to do. I also believe that education is key. In this area the Duggar parents were neglectful. Not talking about feminism or liberation, but rather practicalities. Just ask Cathy Dillard Byram(?)-

[SweetLaurel]

29 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

There’s also the cost to consider, and it seems creating a home, paying for Derek’s law degree, and prepping for their children’s future college is important to them right now. They also like to splurge on date nights together. 

How could her working hinder that?  Most people make more than day care costs?  Curious about the thinking on this?  Or did you just mean her going back to college?   I am a Strong advocate of women getting and keeping a skill updated throughout their lives, even if they have the option to choose to stay home for a long while.  For many it is not an option.  Plus I've talked to too many 'stuck' women who can't leave a bad situation because money and no skills, and widows who have never worked and lose everything when their husbands die and suddenly divorced women who are starting over in their fifties.   

Edited March 25, 2021 by SweetLaurel
adding

[Johannah]

Jill has almost no education (I do not count wisdom booklets and creation science). Because of this, I think to be a well-rounded person who is able to function in a secular society, she should get some kind of formal education. She could take one community college class per semester for very low cost and time investment, learn something about the world and herself, and eventually end up with a marketable degree/skill to fall on in case it’s ever needed.