George Floyd Protests

[GreyhoundFan]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

And I'm not finding an article on my twitter feed - but the State of Virginia (actually - the Commonwealth of Virginia) is (finally) removing the 6 storey Robert E Lee Statue (that now has George Floyd picture on its side) from Richmond.  

Here ya go: "‘It’s time’: Northam orders removal of Lee statue in Richmond"

[clueliss]

MU Health Care workers and students protest.  

 

Police looking for cyclist who assaulted protesters

Quote

 

 

[clueliss]

Well - courtesy of a resistance genealogy twitter account who retweeted something and my checking that retweet - they found the cyclist.  Who is... a copy - confirmed identity by his ex. due to a pending abuse case.  

 

[closetcagebaby]

7 hours ago, fraurosena said:

@closetcagebaby, I think putting a blanket judgment on all police is similar to blanket judgments such as saying all I see are criminal black people, therefore all black people are criminals. We all know that’s simply not true, and the same can be said for the police.

Having said that, the current atrocities being committed by a large number of police are absolutely reprehensible. What I think we are seeing is the psychology of ‘The Experiment’ at work in real life. Sadly, human beings have the capacity for incredibly evil behavior when put in positions of power. 

What is also at play here though, is the media attention the egregious acts are getting. Not only is the MSM reporting on them, but social media accounts are also being flooded with the images of horrible actions. On one hand, that’s a really good thing. Nobody can deny this is happening. On the other hand though, the reporting is very much skewed towards all the bad, and much less news of the good (such as the cop kneeling with the little girl) is being shared. I’m not saying there is as much good as there is bad; we have no way of really knowing. But we shouldn’t dismiss the good off hand either.

I wholeheartedly disagree. There is no comparison between making a blanket judgement about someone based on an immutable characteristic that leads to discrimination and something like a choice of career that exists to support an inherently racist system.

I have seen tons of examples of police being "nice" to someone and then committing an act of violence shortly later. The problem here is absolutely NOT having enough PR about the good cops - I don't care if some cops are good, they are supporting MURDER with their "thin blue line" bullshit and silence. It's despicable. And honestly, the only thing that is getting actual results is the prevalence of video of police action on social media. 

 

[treehugger]

Now is not the time for nice cop stories, just like it isn’t the time for all lives matter and blue lives matter.  All this is is a distraction.  We are protesting police brutality and standing up for #blacklivesmatter, but oh look! Nice cop getting really close to a child who is petrified of him and putting his arm around her telling her lies so she doesn’t feel uncomfortable.
 We all need to feel uncomfortable right now.  We need to realize that people who are nice to some people aren’t nice to all people, and while most people won’t shoot a child, just wait till they grow up to the mature age of 14 or something.  I have lots of nice cop stories, I am also a white woman who lives in an excellent neighborhood,     my experiences do not dictate other people’s realities. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by treehugger

[llg1234]

8 hours ago, fraurosena said:

@closetcagebaby, I think putting a blanket judgment on all police is similar to blanket judgments such as saying all I see are criminal black people, therefore all black people are criminals. We all know that’s simply not true, and the same can be said for the police.

People choose to be police officers, you don't get to choose your race. Do not equate a CHOSEN career and someone's race.

[closetcagebaby]

23 minutes ago, llg1234 said:

People choose to be police officers, you don't get to choose your race. Do not equate a CHOSEN career and someone's race.

Yeah, that type of comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, llg1234 said:

People choose to be police officers, you don't get to choose your race. Do not equate a CHOSEN career and someone's race.

I did not equate the two. I simply called out a blanket judgment. I chose my words carefully, and specifically used the word 'similar' to signify that I was not equating the two. Similar does not mean the same. 

But I stand by what I said. You cannot blanket judge individual people, be it by race, or physical appearance, sexual orientation, choice of religion, or choice of profession. That is incredibly short-sighted and often based on an emotional response.

I agree that the egregious actions of enforcement 'officers' (not all who are bashing protesters are police or even national guard) need to be the focus right now. But don't simply say all police are bad. They are not. Some police, whole police forces even, are evil as shit. But not all of them. And no matter what someone's personal experience is with the evil side of police officers, that does not lead to the conclusion that all police officers everywhere are by definition evil, or the enemy. 

Again, it incredibly important that we see what is happening. That we see the atrocious actions, the lawless actions, the horrible, terrible and criminal actions. We all must acknowledge that this cannot be condoned and must be repudiated (and that's putting it mildly). All of those that abuse their position of power should be stripped of their jobs, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

It is clear that a systematic change is an absolute necessity, beginning with a thorough vetting of anyone applying to be a law enforcement officer. Psychological assessments should also be a part of the selection process. A next step would be extensive education, not a simple 6 weeks course, here's your gun, and you're a policeman. It's no wonder there are all sorts of trigger happy and power hungry assholes on the forces the way things are now. 

 

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, clueliss said:

Well - courtesy of a resistance genealogy twitter account who retweeted something and my checking that retweet - they found the cyclist.  Who is... a copy - confirmed identity by his ex. due to a pending abuse case.  

 

It did look like the former cop referenced in your post was the guy, but the MoCo police department just stated it is not him. They could be covering for him? But he was fired and sued to get his job back to no avail, so I don't think there'd be a ton of love lost there?

 And poor Peter Weinberg  People are criticizing him on Twitter for publicizing that he's been cleared. I don't blame him one bit. I'd be doing everything I could to have people stop associating my name with something like this.

Edited June 5, 2020 by nausicaa

[llg1234]

12 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

I did not equate the two. I simply called out a blanket judgment. I chose my words carefully, and specifically used the word 'similar' to signify that I was not equating the two. Similar does not mean the same. 

But I stand by what I said. You cannot blanket judge individual people, be it by race, or physical appearance, sexual orientation, choice of religion, or choice of profession. That is incredibly short-sighted and often based on an emotional response.

I agree that the egregious actions of enforcement 'officers' (not all who are bashing protesters are police or even national guard) need to be the focus right now. But don't simply say all police are bad. They are not. Some police, whole police forces even, are evil as shit. But not all of them. And no matter what someone's personal experience is with the evil side of police officers, that does not lead to the conclusion that all police officers everywhere are by definition evil, or the enemy. 

Again, it incredibly important that we see what is happening. That we see the atrocious actions, the lawless actions, the horrible, terrible and criminal actions. We all must acknowledge that this cannot be condoned and must be repudiated (and that's putting it mildly). All of those that abuse their position of power should be stripped of their jobs, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

It is clear that a systematic change is an absolute necessity, beginning with a thorough vetting of anyone applying to be a law enforcement officer. Psychological assessments should also be a part of the selection process. A next step would be extensive education, not a simple 6 weeks course, here's your gun, and you're a policeman. It's no wonder there are all sorts of trigger happy and power hungry assholes on the forces the way things are now. 

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/05/30/bad-apples-come-from-rotten-trees-in-policing/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/6/2/21276799/george-floyd-protest-criminal-justice-paul-butler

https://harvardcrcl.org/a-historical-perspective-on-police-oppression/

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/249850.pdf

All police are bad because they are actively choosing to be a part of a system that is broken beyond repair and oppresses people. And don't give me that they are trying to "making changes from the inside" bullshit, because if that were possible it this still wouldn't be happening. Ferguson happened almost 6 years ago (under Obama's administration, mind you) and it hasn't. gotten. better. Nevermind the extensive history of the police force being used to maintain white supremacy. 

They fact that you on so focused on defending some alleged good cops and finger wagging at people expressing ire with a broken system tells me your priorities are fucked up. Systemic changes aren't what's needed, what's needed is an entirely new system.

[47of74]

I hope fuck face has a coronary over this....

Quote

The city of Washington, D.C., is echoing a call for justice by naming a road and painting an unmissable message on a street that leads to the White House: Black lives matter.

A section of 16th Street in front of the White House is now called Black Lives Matter Plaza, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser announced Friday. Earlier, the road was painted with huge yellow letters spelling out the name of the movement.

"We want to call attention today to making sure our nation is more fair and more just and that black lives and that black humanity matter in our nation," Bowser said.

A green street sign reading Black Lives Matter Plaza was affixed Friday morning to a lamp post outside St. John's church. That's where federal forces used munitions and pepper spray on Monday to clear peaceful protesters and make way for President Donald Trump to take a photo outside the iconic yellow and white building, which was damaged by a fire during protests.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by 47of74

[nausicaa]

All 57 cops of Buffalo's Special Emergency Response Team have resigned in solidarity with the two officers who were suspended without pay (not even fired) because of that video of them pushing the elderly man to the ground. 

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?

We have it on video. That man was bleeding from his damn ears after he hit the ground. He didn't attack them in any way (it looked like he was trying to return a lost police helmet). The officers have not even been fired or charged yet, just suspended. And FIFTY-SEVEN cops have their backs in a way I don't even have my own best friend's back?

[closetcagebaby]

 

[llg1234]

38 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

All 57 cops of Buffalo's Special Emergency Response Team have resigned in solidarity with the two officers who were suspended without pay (not even fired) because of that video of them pushing the elderly man to the ground. 

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?

We have it on video. That man was bleeding from his damn ears after he hit the ground. He didn't attack them in any way (it looked like he was trying to return a lost police helmet). The officers have not even been fired or charged yet, just suspended. And FIFTY-SEVEN cops have their backs in a way I don't even have my own best friend's back?

Huh, how about that...

[clueliss]

More on the bicycle thug.

 

Oh and someone pointed this out about Buffalo PD. Special Response team resignation:

 

[fraurosena]

2 minutes ago, llg1234 said:

They fact that you on so focused on defending some alleged good cops and finger wagging at people expressing ire with a broken system tells me your priorities are fucked up

I think you are not reading my posts correctly, or maybe your emotional responses to what is happening are blinding your ability to understand what I actually said. You are focussing on the fact that I say it's not true that all police are bad. First of all, that is not defending 'alleged' good cops. That is me acknowledging that there are good cops.

Secondly, that is not all that I said, by a long shot. I wrote two whole paragraphs condemning the atrocious behaviour out in full view right now, and that something really needs to be done about it. I never claimed there were no bad cops. Those 57 cops you are so gleefully drinking tea about are a case in point. And maybe you didn't notice my post from the other day about the white supremacist cop? 

Thirdly, inferring that I'm just an ignorant white person that has no clue is baseless. Race does not come into my statement whatsoever. That you think it does says more about you than about me. 

Your inference that I am finger wagging at people expressing ire with a broken system is untrue and and frankly rather puerile. I am simply pointing out what I perceive to be a fallacy in the way some of you are passing judgment. Your conclusion that my priorities are 'fucked up' because I'm pointing out nobody should pass blanket judgments is completely unfounded and seems to come from a place of frustration and anger. Justified frustration and anger with the police in general, to be sure -- but it's colouring your view and that's a pity.

 

[clueliss]

Angry White Guy Alert (Montana) - sound on because he gets drowned out - by a bunch of white people shouting "peaceful"

 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, llg1234 said:

All police are bad because they are actively choosing to be a part of a system that is broken beyond repair and oppresses people... Systemic changes aren't what's needed, what's needed is an entirely new system.

I do get this argument, and I'm not saying that just to appease you. I'm also okay with an entirely new system. 

But here's my issue with it, and maybe I'm unfairly conflating things. It does seem a lot of the time like the "ACAB" argument is a motte and bailey fallacy for getting rid of any police force at all. Which I think is a stupendously naive and dangerous suggestion. With no police we get roving vigilante gangs. The Ahmaud Arbery murder basically. (It's also a policy that is unpopular with many African-Americans according to polling, notably older African-Americans. I notice it's people who have spent their lives in incredibly safe neighborhoods who push this "no police" thing.) Only the very wealthy would have the money to pay for a qualified personal police force. 

Also, the realpolitik side of me knows this sort of rhetoric alienates a lot of people, people we need to get some real changes instituted. I'd rather have qualified immunity removed, third party reviews in place, and better vetting of applicants to the police academy than go for a revolution and end up empty-handed. 

So I don't like "all cops are racist shitheads" not because I'm scared of precious cops' feelings or I have some embedded loyalty to the police, but because it alienates voters and also alienates the few good cops who we need to rebuild a competent police force from the ground up. 

[onekidanddone]

12 hours ago, clueliss said:

Well - courtesy of a resistance genealogy twitter account who retweeted something and my checking that retweet - they found the cyclist.  Who is... a copy - confirmed identity by his ex. due to a pending abuse case.  

 

I’ve walked that trail with my daughter. See this is why I don’t like to leave the house anymore. People suck. 
 

There was a march in my town today. Physically and emotionally I’m really not able to march so I stood on the sidewalk and cheered people on. 
 

I know that sounds lame, but so be it 

Edited June 6, 2020 by onekidanddone

[DarkAnts]

This was in my town. A salon owner who is a pice of trash called the proud boys to stand guard outside her salon. 80 armed white supremacists showed up. The police on multiple nights played favorites and did not enforce curfew on her thugs. The same nights, they tear gassed BLM protesters. One night, someone was able to video tape the police saying that he did not want them to appear like they were playing favorites. The mayor and police chief apologized for getting caught. I am still angry about this. I am using my white privilege to flip them off. 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/salem-oregon-cop-warn-white-armed-men-playing-favorites

 

We also has a man call the police because people were writing BLM on the sidewalk. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by DarkAnts
The salon owner was a pice of trash before this

[nausicaa]

48 minutes ago, DarkAnts said:

We also has a man call the police because people were writing BLM on the sidewalk. 

 

He called the police for people writing things in SIDEWALK CHALK?!?

Hope he's gonna crack down on all those hopscotching second graders this summer...

[onekidanddone]

The opening paragraphs to Richard Wright’s Native Son. 
This book is from the 40s. Nothing has changed

 

[clueliss]

Does this mean Doug is the male equivalent of Karen?

[onekidanddone]

15 minutes ago, clueliss said:

Does this mean Doug is the male equivalent of Karen?