Bro Gary Hawkins 13: What's the other one, Becky?

[thoughtful]

Sunday night church at Promise Baptist. Have I ever showed you their lectern? It's white on the sides, but with a brown cross facing the congregation. So, head on, it looks rather like:

Spoiler

an iced gingerbread cross.

A woman sings Come Morning, a cappella. Several of the men in the congregation, including Gary, call out "Amen," "Yehhhhs, Lord," "Hallelujah," and "Yeah!" in such moaning voices that it seems like she's singing in a herd of invisible cattle.

As she works her way slowly down the stairs, with some help (and not near the tissue box tripping hazard, I'm happy to see), her husband stands to let her back in the pew. He gets an extreme close-up in Gary's camera, and solemnly tells us "Been married 56 years. Workin' on 57," then shakes his head and sits down next to his wife.

A man sings Follow Me, a cappella. More cattle-moaning from the pews, and he gets a round of applause.

The Hawkinses sings Standing on the Rock of Ages, with spirit and good rhythm, and a bit of independent counter-melody from Becky. Intonation and timbre is still rough, but it's a bit better than their usual.

Pastor Bray says something about the Roland keyboard Becky got, then "you can do what ya wanna do, you can be what you wanna be!" He asks someone to come up and sing, and gets the answer "I got shorts on, bro!"  (Bray thinks he said he has a sore throat, and needs that repeated). He tells people to donate, so he can give money to Gary for meals.

Then he grabs his guitar, comes down the stairs, insists his wife sing with him, but has to go back up to get his capo. She sings "God's Love and Mercy," and he accompanies on guitar and sings harmony on the chorus, as the collection plate is passed. Gary or Becky crinkles something, and Gary yells out "Amen!" and something I can't make out. He also tries to sing along a bit, but only a bit, I'm happy to say.

They get a big round of applause. I think a lot of that was by way of cheering on Mrs. Bray, who I know is on a long slow road to recovery from something serious, although I don't know the details.

I get the impression that people who want to come up and sing are often welcome in this church, regardless of ability. That would make the Hawkinses fit right in, except for two things. Other than the Pastor, the other people I've seen come up are church members, elderly, often disabled, and probably contribute to the church - I wouldn't begrudge them a single note, no matter how out-of-tune. Gary is middle-aged, could probably be fit with some effort, and he's looking to get money from these people.

Pastor Bray leads them all singing Thank You Lord for Your Blessings On Me. Gary groans a full octave below Bray. They sing Amazing Grace, and Gary tries to sing in Bray's range. I can't tell you which was worse, but it was enthusiastic. Actually, to be serious, I think Gary does a little better up in baritone range.

Gary gets up to preach and this time he says:

Spoiler

BOTH "it's good to be in church" and "no better place to be than the house of the Lord."

Gary tries self-deprecating humor. He says they're probably tired of seeing him, and somebody's gonna get their prayers answered, because, "Lord's will, ah'm leaving Friday."

Pause.

Gary bellows a super-loud "HAYMAYUN!" Becky and some other people laugh, and Pastor Bray, on his way to a pew, asks "Are you happy about it?" I think he's addressing Gary.

Gary goes on and on about some other gig he may be getting, but won't give details in case it isn't God's will. Then he's going to Georgia, then "Yankee-land." He was already supposed to be in "Yankee-land" (really Gary, once was more than enough), but was stopped by "Correena or Corona or whatever her name is" (really, Gary once was more than enough, and this may be the 478th instance of that bad joke).

And he gets a laugh! You fools - don't encourage him!

Too late - like a seasoned comedian, he runs with it. "They got so many stinkin' names for it, you don't know what to call it. One day it's the Chahna vahris, the next day it's Coven-19, ain't no tellin' what it'll be t'morra."

He switches to quiet-preacher mode, and says he has been amazed - he's been off the road about a month, and "ah haven't done without any'thin.' I haven't been without. You say why? Because God's just that good. That's just the kinda God ah serve, and, y'know . . ."

And he gets "Amens" from the congregation, and from Becky, throughout and after that little faux-humble speech.

   

Gary, you incredible dickwad - the people at Promise Baptist, and your family, have given you food, shelter, truck repairs, and money, cooked and cleaned, cut your hair and beard, fed your voracious ego, and didn't stop you from endangering them, yourself and others by going wherever you wanted.

And those very people are Amen-ing. I just don't get it. OK, I know, some of them are just as bad when it comes to beliefs and behavior during the lockdown. However, I would bet that most of them work hard for their money, or did when they were younger.

Anyway, back to Gary. He tells us how meat prices are going up, and, despite a gap in the video, I'm pretty sure he said "if you don't like chicken, you ain't a Baptist Amen."

We finally get to the Bible reading, although it takes several tries to get it announced.

2 Timothy 4:1-9 - Gary mumbles about how he thinks he's never preached on this Scripture, maybe, he can't remember, but he was meditatin' while goin' to git somethin' for his wife (gotta have a shopping trip in there!).

Anyway, he finally starts reading. After verses 3&4 (For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables), he says ominously "Are we not there?" and gets Amens.

Paul was preparing Timothy to take his place. Nowadays, it's hard to tell whether a young person who wants to be a preacher is just in it for the money, or whatever's the fashion. He disses modern theology schools, including those that claim to be IFB - students "come home stupider'n when they got there amen."

Gary says that Paul was a good evangelizer because he also worked a job, as a tentmaker. Gary says he also worked a job, anything he could get, up until about 7 years ago.

So, what made you stop, shmuck?

Paul didn't need to look for a place to stay when he came to a town, because he knew he was going to prison. "If we keep standin' for God, standing for right, we may see those days, too amen?"

"You know why that we, do you, do you know why things seem, uh bad - seem worser now? Ah, ah, ah ah talk hillbilly, ah don't know, ah don't know English very good, I speak pretty good English, I mean pretty good hillbilly, ah think."

Gary, you fucked up that attempt at homey humor beyond all saving. Either that, or you were channeling Foghorn Leghorn.

Anyway, things are worse (excuse me, worser) now because we got the Internet, and Paul didn't have it.

Gary, you did preach this before. That statement is hard to forget.

There's no good news on TV, the Bible has 66 books, we're in tahms like we've never been in before (he stops to fuss with his microphone). "We need to be charged in these dayssssss." He tells the story of the young man who got arrested at Home Depot again.

He bought Jacob a hoverboard, and says he tried to use it (someone calls out "say no more!") - Jacob had to charge it before they could try it. Great metaphor. I wonder if Gary knows that's not what the "charged" in 2 Timothy means.

Up to full screaming level for a rant about how church is essential, regardless of what the government says, because that's where you get charged. You've been out in the world and heard rock'n'roll music, and you need to come in and get "plugged up" (I love that particular error of Gary's - it's "plugged in," not "plugged up," Gar, unless rice and cheese, or anal beads, are involved).

"I didn't choose this - God chose me."  "I don't make $100 an hour - I sometimes do better'n that, just through the word of God, amen. Y'know, when you go ta - when I go ta - whenever mah wife goes ta doin' mah taxes, (video skips) how much money I spent, 'n' how much money somebody give me, it never adds up." He gets quiet. "But just remember - you can't add God's taxes (points sideways) with the world's taxes (points up)."

Oh, c'mon - this has to be performance art. Right?

He mops his face and talks about his late, lamented motor home. He drove that thing across the country. "You say why? Because God was in it."

"It's a good thing to help people, but once in a while, if them people don't get to helpin' thereself 'n' they don't start appreciatin' what the helpin', might be time to move on amen."

Really - Gary said that. About other people.

His mama is going into the hospital tomorrow for an "out-thing" to get her kidney stones "busted up or broke up or crushed up or blowed up or whatever they do to em, amen." He lists some people who have died, who have cancer, who are old, including a woman who is 95, he thinks "she's older'n dirt, she may've come over with Moses, we're not figured it out yet."

You never know what God will want you to do. He once pulled in, after a long drive, tired and "ah prob'ly stunk amen," to a church where he was due on the weekend. But he came on Wednesday to use the mission quarters, because "they wouldn't mind," and they told him they wanted him to preach that night. 

Lots of familiar stuff, mostly at full bellowing and pacing level. We need preaching, not havin' our ears tickled. He does his usual riff about old-fashioned preachers who preach about sin - some of them said words you'd get arrested for if you said them today. Gary says he has to yell loudly when he preaches. He tells us about the guy who gave him the tent. Nobody knows when the Lord is comin' - we need to be watchin.' Be keerful little eyes, etc. He's gonna go sit in a restaurant in Georgia, whether he has money or not. 

Everybody in that part of the woods says they're saved. He was at "Walmarts" buyin' somethin' for his wife, and told a young woman who worked there to come to church. He makes a Gary-joke after making sure she knew where Ruffin was: "it ain't as rough as it looks." I guess she didn't come to church, because he says "Wherever she is, she's not watchin' for the second comin'." But he's sure that, if you asked her, she'd say (he simpers) "Why sure ah'm saved."

He thinks the second coming will be on a Wednesday, because it will catch people who aren't in church, playin' on their cell phones, on Facebook and watchin' I Love Lucy on TV.

I swear to you - he says I Love Lucy.

He bellows proudly about all of the miles he's put on his truck during the month he's lived in the church, because the government ain't gonna tell him what to do.

He tells them again about the animal-sitting gig for David Hyles coming up, and how he and Becky only want to be a help to people. They used to do all kinds of gardening and lawn-mowing and other practical things to earn their keep when they were put up in churches. When was that, Gary, and why did you stop?

He tells about a "pasture" who told his people not to give him money if they didn't have a job. I'm sure that's what you want them to do about you, Gary. ?

You need to fight for the church, the KJV (he claims that people say there are contradictions in it, but when you ask them to point them out, they can't find any), your "pasture."

Not every church he goes to has a good "pasture" - in fact, there are some churches he never wants to go back to, because of their bad "pastures."

He talks about the protestors and the lawsuit again, saying they only get two weeks to "try out church." He says the sad part is the numbers are gonna climb, "and every number's gonna come from some church. You watch and you watch. Watch your little ____(inaudible) 'cause it's fixin' to come out. You say why? We got a  Cooper down there that hates God. He's gonna burn in Hell."

(I'm pretty sure that he's saying that the government will lie to blame the churches for increased coronavirus cases, but, who knows? He could mean that it will actually happen because Cooper is in league with Satan)

He rants some more about Cooper, and Pelosi. He wants to tell her about Jesus. He hasn't thrown no stones. But Pennsylvania's got a real bad governor. The governor of "Illinoisss" said there will be no more church for at least a year.

BUT HEY! ALL THIS IS IS A VAHRIS MAKIN' PEOPLE SICK 'N' KILLIN' 'EM! HOGWASH!!

What people are gonna die of is the 55% more "alky-hol" sales and whatever that liver disease is they die of. He knows someone who bought a liquor store, cleaned it up, "got all the demons of Hell out of it," and made it a church.

We need to finish. (I thought, oh, please, but we're on 1:03, and the video goes to 1:18. Damn). He tells the church they need to finish - the old timers are dying. Gary, among your other issues, you are so freakin' morbid. He talks about an old man he knows whose "mind is gone - he repeats the same thing over and over and over."

Physician, heal thyself.

It would probably be better for his health and his family if he got off of the road. But his truck has better seats than the chiropractor's office.

"I've never set in jail and ah thank God for it and ah hope that ah don't never do, but if I stand like ah'm sayin' right now and ah keep on with my big fat mouth that ah got standin' up for Jesus probably one day one day ah'm gonna look for electric chair."

No, Gary - you will not be put in the electric chair as punishment for standing up for Jesus. How does he come up with this shit? And once he comes up with it, why can't he form actual sentences to say it?

If you stand up for God, you gonna have some adversaries. Then he asks if he used that word right.

OK, Gary, "vastly" was the other day, "adversary" was today's word, what else did you look up in your new dictionary?

He talks about how he stiffens up after driving for an hour - wait, I thought the truck had comfy seats! Early in their marriage, Becky talked him into going to the chiropractor, who jumped on top of him then told him he never worked on anyone so tense. Gary said "Well, bless God, whyn't you lay there and let me jump on top of you a little bit? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO ENDURE AFFLICTION!"

No, he didn't yell that at the Chiropractor - he just leaped right into yelling that at the lectern, as a reference to 2 Timothy 4:5. Remember 2 Timothy?

Paul had "frenemies."

When Gary told his children they were doin' good, they turned around and started doin' bad.

He has friends that God sends his way, to bless him with stuff.

When Gary gets to Heaven, he'll be able to eat eat eat and never get fat. They had a birthday party for Jacob on Friday night, and have been eating leftover hamburger ever since. Leftovers are OK - pinto beans are better the second day.

That's just fascinating, Gary, and such a meaningful ending, after listening to you burble and ramble and bellow for an hour. Paul and Timothy would be proud.

Yes, leftover pinto beans is how the Sunday Night Phenomenal Lack of Self-Awareness and Random Repetitive Verbal Fragments Festival ends. He suddenly starts to pray, while still getting congregational responses to his leftovers statement, which results in us hearing a man's voice, musing and clear, say "onions" as Gary is praying. Pure poetry.

He prays for Promise Baptist, starts listing people by name, then, after three names, "all the rest of 'em, ah don't know all of 'ems' names, Lord."

I feel vastly charged - don't you?

Gary:

Spoiler

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by thoughtful

[Botkinetti]

@thoughtful thank you for the recaps you do. They are magnificent. I’m positive you give more thought to them than Gary gives to his sermons. 

[Xan]

Gary did a video earlier today from his truck.  He said that it had been raining and the internet connection was poor inside the church.

Basically, it's the same old, same old.  He's headed to SC later this week, then on to Georgia, and (I think) Alabama.  He's just free associating all over the place while he sucks his teeth.  I think he's gotten some criticism lately because he keeps harping on not judging people.   "You've got to be very careful (judging other people) because you don't know what's in their shoes."  What?  There's something IN their shoes?  Weapons?  Snakes?  Gar, I don't even want to think about the inside of your shoes.

"I just want to encarriage you -- don't quit.  Finish your race.  Listen - we're soon getting out of here."  I bet the congregation in that church is just hoping the Hawkins family is soon getting out of there.

"You want God to find you just laying around and doing nothing?  I don't."  Well, then you need to get off of your ass, Gar, and do some real work.

"We are the light of Jesus Christ and we're to be just like little Christ-es running around here trying to represent Jesus Chist."   (Not a typo.  He said Jesus Chist.)

My favorite comment from one of Gar's Facebook friends:  "Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."  Yep.  Words help if you're trying to preach.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Xan

[thoughtful]

5 hours ago, Botkinetti said:

@thoughtful thank you for the recaps you do. They are magnificent. I’m positive you give more thought to them than Gary gives to his sermons. 

Thanks! It feels like the language version of riding a bull, sometimes. He just tosses words, partial words, noises, KJV quotes, evil governors and "Walmarts" around, and my mind is flung around with them.

Instead of looking up new words in the dictionary that he thinks sound smart, he could work on putting simple words together in a way that makes sense.

As someone with word-retrieval problems and a tendency to ramble myself, I'd be sympathetic, if only he'd work at planning, making sense, connecting his thoughts. I may ramble when socializing, but I plan for when I'm teaching, and listen to the little "is this relevant, and, if so, how much time should it take up" voice in my head if I go off on a tangent.

Nothing could make me sympathetic to his mostly-vile message, though.

He was live again this morning, in the truck.

Spoiler

Lots of tooth sucking and the usual tapping that we only hear when he's in the truck. "Having to do the, uh, lahv broadcast in the truck, because, uh, it's raining outside, and the signal don't work inside."

Well, no - you don't have to do a live at all, Gary.

He talks about North Carolina's two-week back-to-church window, and what a good service they had last night, all about his travel plans, God is good, things are opening back up again.

"What a God we serve." "I have watched Him the last month just take keer of the Hawkins family."

Man, that angers me. No, Gary, other people have taken care of you - you may believe they are sent by God, that is your right. But the comforts you have enjoyed were purchased with someone else's money, and that money represents work they did. You do none.

He does say he appreciates Brother David . . . he freezes . . . "Brother David, uh . . .oh my goodness . . . Brother David, uh . . . Promise Baptist church, for allowin' us to stay here  . . . what's David's last name, Becky?" This last is yelled out the truck window. Becky answers "Bray" instantly.

Wait, is Becky standing outside in the rain?

OK, so he's thanking a person. What does he do, after showing listeners that he's grateful?

He begs for gigs. They just want to be "a hep and a blessin' and and encouragement." Someone else is preaching at Promise on Wednesday night, "but that's OK." Gee, Gary, glad you approve. So they are available Wednesday.

Lots and lots of his usual shit. Flip-yans 4:19, pray for him, he'll pray for you, he's got a special request, but he's not saying what it is, if God does it, it'll be done right, if Gary tries to do it, it'll be done wrong.

Gary, it's really hard to believe you when you try to sound humble.

Gary talks more about what he said last night, although he insists he's not "re-hershin" it; the man in his 80s who is having cognitive problems and doubts his purpose in life now (Gary told him his purpose in life is to pray for Gary). He talks about someone else in his 80s who sometimes still preaches at Promise - Gary told him he has to finish what he's started.

"We're to be just like little Christs, just runnin' around here, tryin' to represent Jesus Chiste (he leaves out the "r").

I can't help but picture wind-up toys. They used to be available from "Walmarts," but it seems they are out of stock.

We should be busy for Jesus. Busy doing what, he doesn't say, but he launches right in to thanking "every single person who have prayed for me, have sent me messages, have given to the ministry. Thank you so very much. God will bless you, ah promise you."

That Gary - such a subtle hint-giver.

Sarah Anne comments, and Gary approves:

Spoiler

Gary, I'm not sure she considers you a worker.

Finish your race. "You in the race? You in the army? I'm tellin' ya, this mornin' would be a good time to do 'xactly what Fizzin's chapter six says."

"You're gonna see things, listen, hey, the Devil is out to - listen, if he was out to sift Peter . . .  and he did get him a little bit backwards, but thank God he came back . . . if he was after Peter, he gon' be after you. If he was after apostle Paul, he's gonna be after you. If he was after John the Baptist, he's gonna be after you.

Thanks for the copy and paste opportunity, Gary.

Sarah Anne comments:

Spoiler

This time, Gary ignores her. Why am I not surprised?

He tells the story about the police officer in Florida approving of their tent revival, and the teenage girl that got saved, again. Wait - he mentions that she's 12, not 13! Gary, you've been "boastin' on Jesus" for saving a 13-year old, a teenager, for almost two months. Jesus doesn't like liars, Gary.

Job again. People disapprove of Job's wife because she said he should curse God, but "bury ten children and watch your husband lose ever'thin' ananand then see what you do." You better be very careful what you say about somebody else, "'cause you don't know what's in their shoes."

My first guess would be feet, Gary. Possibly socks.

He stares at us and taps his upper lip repeatedly.

From what I've heard over the last months, Gary, I'm pretty sure your exhortations not to be judgmental because you don't know what others are going through, doesn't apply to anyone but your fellow KJV-only types.

Finish your race, finish your course, God has a plan, he's just tryin' to be encouragin', over and over and over . . .

He reminds us that they're available Wednesday night, then fumbles around trying many times to tell us when they'll be in Georgia, and just can't figure out how close we are to the end of May.

Gary:

Spoiler

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by thoughtful

[thoughtful]

@Xan, sorry about the crosspost. I was working on mine, with some interruptions, and didn't know you'd posted.

1 hour ago, Xan said:

My favorite comment from one of Gar's Facebook friends:  "Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."  Yep.  Words help if you're trying to preach.

Actually, that's a well-known saying, meaning to live what you believe, rather than just giving it lip service.

It is generally meant as either a gentle exhortation or a pointed barb at someone who yammers on but doesn't live the Gospel, doesn't do good things for others or set a good example in their behavior. She has a history of commenting about why she is doing things (like making masks) because of her Christian beliefs, and I'm pretty sure she's  a thorn in Gary's side.

Besides not wanting to hear that message, Gary may have ignored her because he thinks of that saying as Catholic, since it is often attributed to St. Francis (I don't think anyone really knows where it originated).

[Xan]

44 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

@Xan, sorry about the crosspost. I was working on mine, with some interruptions, and didn't know you'd posted.

Actually, that's a well-known saying, meaning to live what you believe, rather than just giving it lip service.

It is generally meant as either a gentle exhortation or a pointed barb at someone who yammers on but doesn't live the Gospel, doesn't do good things for others or set a good example in their behavior. She has a history of commenting about why she is doing things (like making masks) because of her Christian beliefs, and I'm pretty sure she's  a thorn in Gary's side.

Besides not wanting to hear that message, Gary may have ignored her because he thinks of that saying as Catholic, since it is often attributed to St. Francis (I don't think anyone really knows where it originated).

Thanks for explaining that.  On its face, it looked silly but at least someone is trying to jab at Gary.

And, honestly, the best I can do is but a faint attempt at your recaps.  I don't want to put any pressure on you but, sometimes, your recaps of Gary are the high point of my day.

I am frequently puzzled by the egos of Gary and of JillRod.  How can anyone think that they're so Godly and important that all they need to do every day is talk about Jesus?  The rest of us understand that we need to do some sort of work to eat and keep a roof over our heads but these people only need to yammer on about our eternal souls and they think it is incumbent upon us to keep them up?  And Gary is possibly worse than Jill.  He thinks he's a talented traveling preacher with people always happy about feeding him, housing him, and keeping him in weens and gravy.  He hasn't bothered to get actual religious knowledge nor does he try to have interesting or cohesive messages.  All he has to do is turn on a camera and say every lame thing he's ever heard about serving the Lord.  He even thinks people exist just to pray for him.  Rarely have I seen anyone that proud of himself with so little upon which to base that pride.   Every time I see that he's got a video up, I always hope that maybe Becky has taken their son and left old Gary alone on the road.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Xan

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

He does say he appreciates Brother David . . . he freezes . . . "Brother David, uh . . .oh my goodness . . . Brother David, uh . . . Promise Baptist church, for allowin' us to stay here  . . . what's David's last name, Becky?" This last is yelled out the truck window. Becky answers "Bray" instantly.

For Fox sake Gary... I have never even seen the dude and he's never given me food or a place to stay, i've just read the @thoughtful episode guide and  I knew what his last name is.

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, Xan said:

Thanks for explaining that.  On its face, it looked silly but at least someone is trying to jab at Gary.

Yeah, it's one of those "think it through" expressions.

Of course, Gary would accuse her of wanting works-based salvation.

One of the things I've noticed is how many fundies (and even non-fundies) are quick to accuse others of thinking they can buy their way into Heaven with works.

Now, I am no scholar of Christian thought, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think there is any Christian group that, when asked, "how does a person earn Heaven," would answer "with works."

It seems to me that they all say faith is what gets you into Heaven, then have various ways to express how faith and/or the example of Jesus will inspire you to be a better person, that you should do good for others while you are here on Earth, there might be a heirarchy in Heaven based on your works (Gary has preached that himself), etc.

Am I missing something? Is there a Christian denomination that actually preaches that works get you into Heaven, or is it just something mean bastards like Gary accuse others of believing?

 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, Xan said:

I am frequently puzzled by the egos of Gary and of JillRod.  How can anyone think that they're so Godly and important that all they need to do every day is talk about Jesus?  The rest of us understand that we need to do some sort of work to eat and keep a roof over our heads but these people only need to yammer on about our eternal souls and they think it is incumbent upon us to keep them up?

You and me both.

And they can fall right back on "I'm not proud - I'm just a sinner saved by grace" when accused of hubris (Gary, look that one up!).

They can fall back on "What's more important - feeding the body or saving the soul?" when someone points out that their efforts benefit nobody in the here and now.

They can shlep out "It's persecution!" when someone tries to curtail (look that one up, Gary!) their activities in any way, even to save their lives, or asks them to reconsider the way they do something.

Really, the itinerant preacher life, and cherry-picking a few tenets of Christianity as an "out," a kind of spiritual non-stick coating, is tailor-made for narcissists.

Sinclair Lewis knew that, in 1926. Elmer Gantry is perfect reading and viewing material for FJers.

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

For Fox sake Gary... I have never even seen the dude and he's never given me food or a place to stay, i've just read the @thoughtful episode guide and  I knew what his last name is.

Bray, Gary - rhymes with pray, makes noises like a donkey (like the ones you're about to go babysit) . . .

Actually, my brain does this to me all the time - names I know, know well, sit just out of reach when I need them, then they jump into my brain hours later. Both of my parents have/had this issue, as well.

"If you remember it at 3:00 AM, don't wake me" has been a standard warning in my family for many years.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by thoughtful

[ignorantobserver]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

Now, I am no scholar of Christian thought, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think there is any Christian group that, when asked, "how does a person earn Heaven," would answer "with works."

It seems to me that they all say faith is what gets you into Heaven, then have various ways to express how faith and/or the example of Jesus will inspire you to be a better person, that you should do good for others while you are here on Earth, there might be a heirarchy in Heaven based on your works (Gary has preached that himself), etc.

I can't remember any important tradition in Christianity that allows salvation through works alone, usually faith is required (there might have been some dissidents, sects, heretic movements and so forth, but, as far as I know, nothing did really catch on).

Allow me to add to your second paragraph that the Catholic Church traditionally sees good works as necessary : the idea that "good" behaviour is merely an expression of faith is more or less a summary of the sola fide doctrine, essential to about every protestant denomination, but fairly disruptive and revolutionary at the time, and usually seen as heretic when formulated by catholics (think of the Jansenists and other "Augustinian"-inspired currents of thought). In that sense, a lot of Catholics might, if you ask how to get into Heaven, give an answer that amounts to "works". (A lot of Protestants, especially Lutheran and Anglican, probably would, too. People tend to have a very strong "gut-feeling" that you should better behave yourself if you want to go to Heaven).

One essential thing to remember is the fact that "works" in the catholic tradition don't necessarily describe "volunteering at the homeless shelter", but usually englobe other "meritorious" behaviours like voluntary celibacy, poverty, frequently receiving the sacraments and such. This is one of the main conflicts of the Reformation : protestants traditionally refute the necessity of following these steps of sanctification, as exemplified by the highly mediatised refusal to abstain from eating meat during Lent that was the source of several major scandals during the early Reformation era. The core ideas behind these movements were the following : the only relevant authority is the word of God written down in the Bible and "explained" to every single believer through the holy spirit, the path to salvation as described by the Catholich Church is unbiblical, thus, the "works" promoted by the CC (in this example, fasting) are not necessary for salvation and might even be spiritually dangerous because they express a sense of entitlement that negates the absolute dependance of the sinner on God's grace. The aggressive refusal of "works" that characterises some Reformed traditions is not oriented against charity work or the like, it is oriented against the sacraments, holidays, monastic tradition and so forth, all the religious practices they refute as unbiblical and potentially idolatrous. Gary is firmly anchoring his sermons in Reformation era polemics : he is reproducing a staple of early modern preachers who were trying to discourage the public from engaging in "Papist" behaviours. The need for this kind of rhetoric in the modern world is a mystery to me. After five hundred years, most people should already be aware of the basic principles of their faith, especially in a region of the US where, I assume, the influence of the CC is next to nonexistent.

Edit : I just remembered that the Flagellants were occasionally accused of promoting salvation through their lifestyle as opposed to the sacraments. As far as I remember, this wasn't something they themselves claimed, but I am no specialist of that period. In this case, the "works" would consist of publically whipping themselves during a short pilgrimage. Only somewhat related : a lot of the discussions on this board remind me of the debate concerning Mendicant orders when they first emerged during the High Middle Ages. Itinerant preachers, live off the charity of the people they minister to, live in poverty and precarity, put emphasis on evangelising and preaching - accused of being useless parasites who should be working instead of grifting off the believers. The parallels between Gary and quite a few of those evil Catholic groups (especially radically "leftist" ones like the Mendicant orders at their beginning) are fascinating and hilarious. The poor man. No historical awareness whatsoever.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ignorantobserver
I just can't stop rambling on.

[thoughtful]

Thanks, @ignorantobserver. I basically knew that history (although I admit I wasn't thinking about things like sacraments and rituals being "works" until you reminded me).

What's weird to me is that Gary, and some other people I hear leveling the "you think works will get you into Heaven" accusation, are aiming it at other Protestants, as far as I can tell - often other Baptists. I know it's one of the things Gary has said about family members he won't name who go to a different church, and I can't imagine they've become Catholics.

And the people I hear leveling this accusation always have things they say a believer must do. But, somehow, it's always the other group's actions that they disdain as a belief in works as the ticket to Heaven. Theirs, no matter how similar, are not.

It's such a disingenuous, obvious falsehood that it always strikes me as bizarre.

 

[forgetmenow]

17 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Yes, leftover pinto beans is how the Sunday Night Phenomenal Lack of Self-Awareness and Random Repetitive Verbal Fragments Festival ends. He suddenly starts to pray, while still getting congregational responses to his leftovers statement, which results in us hearing a man's voice, musing and clear, say "onions" as Gary is praying. Pure poetry.

This paragraph (along with many others) is wonderful and could fit right in with any dispatch from Lake Wobegon.  (And I shouldn't have read it while eating, cause it made me choke a little.)

Edited May 19, 2020 by forgetmenow

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 5/17/2020 at 2:14 PM, AmazonGrace said:

Oi she looks very young.

I honestly thought she must be a junior bridesmaid when I first saw the picture.

[thoughtful]

Gary was live in front of the wall, with flowers behind him and spilled water on his shirt.

He stares at the camera and mumbles about whether it was working and whether people will sign on for almost two minutes.

He explains who he is, and what he does. Why? who does he expect to be on there that usually isn't?  He also says he doesn't usually do this, which almost made me shit myself.

At the four minute mark, we hear a dog bark - sounds like a big dog. Will she appear?

He tells us where he'll be going, and begs for gigs. He says they'll be in Conrad, Georgia "if I'm pronouncin' that right." I thought "how hard is that to pronounce?" then decided to do a little Googling. 

There is no Conrad, Georgia. The Red Barn, headquarters of David Hyles' If You Fell As Hard As I Did, Come Here and We'll Whine Together Camp, (really called Fallen in Grace, or FIG), where you will be goat and donkey-sitting, is in Cochran, Georgia, Gary.

I guess his natural Godliness prevents his mouth from forming that first syllable.

Again he claims that he hasn't done any promotion in a long time. That's a lie, Gary. You may not have been as relentless, but that's because you had a cozy nest in Texas for weeks, then in NC for a month.

Then he gets defensive.

"S'nothin' wrong with lettin' people know, y'know. Some evangelists are aginst this, that's fahn, and uh,  fahn 'n' dandy. Ah'm not gonna, not gonna criticize them, but ah don't want them criticizin' me for, uh, y'know, usin' the tool that the Lord has give me to try to promote the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ amen?"

He'd like to set up his gospel tent. People are scared of comin' into a church, they say "if I come into church the roof'll fall in - we've all heard that."

Not I.

After SC and Georgie, he'll be in Opp, Alabama. That one he can pronounce.

No Mama dog, but Gary greets this guy and makes sure to say that he can't pronounce his name:

Spoiler

 

Everybody's selling something, eh, Gary? What is the world coming to?

 

 

[wallysmommy]

Darn, if Opp, Alabama wasn't a 4 hour ride, I'd take a jaunt to go see Gary to do some in-person reporting.  I could be one of the heathens he prays for to get saved.  Although I've already made a profession of faith and I'm a wicked Southern Baptist.

Let me clarify -- I'm not really going to touch the poop, but it would be a bit entertaining to see him in action in person.

Edited May 19, 2020 by wallysmommy

[Dana723]

18 hours ago, thoughtful said:

A woman sings Come Morning, a cappella. Several of the men in the congregation, including Gary, call out "Amen," "Yehhhhs, Lord," "Hallelujah," and "Yeah!" in such moaning voices that it seems like she's singing in a herd of invisible cattle.

...

A man sings Follow Me, a cappella. More cattle-moaning from the pews, and he gets a round of applause.

About the time I think I have read the funniest thing you've ever written, I come across something like this and I.  Just.  Die.

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, forgetmenow said:

This paragraph (along with many others) is wonderful and could fit right in with any dispatch from Lake Wobegon.  (And I shouldn't have read it while eating, cause it made me choke a little.)

It's nice to know I came close to capturing it. It really is worth hearing that man, softly, reverently, say "onions" as Gary prays - it's near the very end of the Sunday night service.

https://www.facebook.com/ghawkins38/videos/3262490227129122

49 minutes ago, Dana723 said:

About the time I think I have read the funniest thing you've ever written, I come across something like this and I.  Just.  Die.

Again, it was really just as accurate a description as I could muster - the humor had already happened, because, I swear, that's what they sounded like. Lowing cattle, their voices coming from nowhere.

BTW, I forgot to mention that David Hyles may not be happy if he finds out that Gary keeps talking about his upcoming job as a goat nanny. ? Especially now that he's (sort of) said the name of the town.

The exact location of FIG is not indicated anywhere on either website, but looking at this one https://fig.care/ , you can see that it is a distinctive looking place, and that they are calling the Red Barn. It just says "Georgia" somewhere, and "middle Georgia" somewhere else on the site. But it's easy to figure out that it used to be the Red Barn B&B.

I think Hyles does not want to be too easy to find.

Gary and Becky will be in the lap of luxury, if they are in the main house. They may be in one of the little cottages shown in the listing from when it was sold to Hyles' "ministry:"

https://www.innshopper.com/gallery.aspx?ListingID=1193&showbig=1193_749.jpg

[thoughtful]

Yeah, I'm posting again.

I kept thinking there was something I was expecting Gary to talk about today, that he didn't, but couldn't remember what it was. Then I looked at Becky's FB:

Spoiler

Oh, yeah. The kidney stones being blowed up.

I think he said last night that she was supposed to go in at 9:30. So he was in his truck (at the church, I'm pretty sure) doing a live video while his mother was being prepped for her procedure, or possibly having it. He didn't ask prayers for her, or tell us, in the second video, at about 2:00 PM, that all went well, or that it hadn't been done yet, or anything.

Now, I know some people don't want a lot of family in the waiting room, and we have restless types in my family who are often urged to run an errand, for everybody's sake. So maybe his Mom insisted he stay away, and told him not to talk about her kidney on Facebook, like he did in church last night.

But, knowing Gary, it's hard not to think that it was all selfish on his part.

 

[ignorantobserver]

5 hours ago, thoughtful said:

What's weird to me is that Gary, and some other people I hear leveling the "you think works will get you into Heaven" accusation, are aiming it at other Protestants, as far as I can tell - often other Baptists. I know it's one of the things Gary has said about family members he won't name who go to a different church, and I can't imagine they've become Catholics.

This is a really interesting observation ! The question is whether this indicates an actual theological rift between Baptist churches or is just a convenient way for people like John Shrader or Gary to justify their lifestyle. Unfortunately, I am lamentably ignorant of the subject and can't tell if this has anything to do with current Baptist "interior politics".

[AmazonGrace]

I think Gary got some faulty logic going on and extrapolated from "works won't get you to heaven" and got into the "If you work you won't get to heaven" territory.

[AuntKrazy]

57 minutes ago, ignorantobserver said:

This is a really interesting observation ! The question is whether this indicates an actual theological rift between Baptist churches or is just a convenient way for people like John Shrader or Gary to justify their lifestyle. Unfortunately, I am lamentably ignorant of the subject and can't tell if this has anything to do with current Baptist "interior politics".

There is a twenty year plus debate in evangelical theology proper over "Lordship Salvation".  This measures the veracity of someone's salvation  by how much of a person's life is "under Christ's rule". 

My seminary professor basically called it a bunch of bloviating over if works have value at all, and pointed out that salvation + works = something more than and salvation- works = something less than salvation.  Someone who is concerned with being spiritual will show it in their behavior toward others, being the point. 

[smittykins]

9 hours ago, AuntKrazy said:

There is a twenty year plus debate in evangelical theology proper over "Lordship Salvation".  This measures the veracity of someone's salvation  by how much of a person's life is "under Christ's rule". 

“He’s either Lord of all or He’s not Lord at all.”

IME, it was used to judge people for watching TV, listening to secular music, etc.

Edited May 19, 2020 by smittykins

[wallysmommy]

Okay, folks.  Bro went live this afternoon.  I can in no way do what @thoughtful does in the recaps, so I'll give you my Readers' Digest version.

It was starting to rain, so he scrambled inside and left the door open to stream.

He's late streaming because they had to get a new rim for a tire.  Them aluminum ones is junk (my words using his style).

They drove over a hun'red miles today to get the rim replaced.

He's got a new gig lined up.  He's planning to go to SC, GA and AL, then up north.  

His mama is okay.  She's only got one kidney so they needed this to work.

He totally mangles "for me to live is Christ, for me to die is gain."  It comes out like "for me to live is gain, I mean for me to die is...for me to live is Christ..."

He gave some tracts to some guys hanging outside some establishment.  I couldn't catch the name even with replaying it.

He's got some money in his pocket, but he ain't lending anybody some.

Somebody else is preaching tomorrow night at his squatter home.  He calls the person who will be preaching something like "some young feller."  He claims he needs to hear some preachin', too!  HAYMEN!

 

[Xan]

21 minutes ago, wallysmommy said:

Okay, folks.  Bro went live this afternoon.  I can in no way do what @thoughtful does in the recaps, so I'll give you my Readers' Digest version.

It was starting to rain, so he scrambled inside and left the door open to stream.

He's late streaming because they had to get a new rim for a tire.  Them aluminum ones is junk (my words using his style).

They drove over a hun'red miles today to get the rim replaced.

He's got a new gig lined up.  He's planning to go to SC, GA and AL, then up north.  

His mama is okay.  She's only got one kidney so they needed this to work.

He totally mangles "for me to live is Christ, for me to die is gain."  It comes out like "for me to live is gain, I mean for me to die is...for me to live is Christ..."

He gave some tracts to some guys hanging outside some establishment.  I couldn't catch the name even with replaying it.

He's got some money in his pocket, but he ain't lending anybody some.

Somebody else is preaching tomorrow night at his squatter home.  He calls the person who will be preaching something like "some young feller."  He claims he needs to hear some preachin', too!  HAYMEN!

 

He hits his stride towards the end:  "It's all about Jesus.  Ain't got nothing to do with Gary.  Ain't got nothing to do with Gary.  Ain't got nothing to do with Gary.  It's all about Jesus.  These videos are about Jesus.  The goodness of God is about Jesus.  The blessings of God come from the Lord Jesus Christ.  Hayman??"   Boy howdy, Gary is on a roll today.  He is loving the sound of his own voice.  And he thinks repetition makes everything sound all preacher-y.  

He ends dramatically with "Jesus. Is. Soon, Coming. Back." Then he adds a chipper "Have a good day!  God bless ya'!"

If I were Becky, I'd take away his tripod.  The man is becoming less than useless since he's decided to preach on Facebook.

[thoughtful]

19 hours ago, AuntKrazy said:

There is a twenty year plus debate in evangelical theology proper over "Lordship Salvation".  This measures the veracity of someone's salvation  by how much of a person's life is "under Christ's rule". 

My seminary professor basically called it a bunch of bloviating over if works have value at all, and pointed out that salvation + works = something more than and salvation- works = something less than salvation.  Someone who is concerned with being spiritual will show it in their behavior toward others, being the point. 

Thanks - this explains some of it. I really felt like anything I read or heard was people disdaining the idea that works can get someone into Heaven, but I could never figure why they were accusing others of it, since they all seemed to reject it.

Thanks for the updates, @wallysmommy and @Xan. I was teaching adorable Mormons, so I couldn't watch the un-adorable faux-Baptist.

Glad to hear Gary's Mom came through OK, and that he actually cares.

I'm watching it now, and, as someone who has never used Facebook live, I have a question. If you make a false start, can you just delete it and start again? Gary clearly has odd boundaries (for want of a better word) when it comes to formal vs. informal, so maybe he figures it's no big deal.

But this business of sitting there looking at the camera, so anyone watching, live or later, is just sitting there looking at him (well, I switch over to playing solitaire, but I am still waiting for him to say something) seems like a waste. And today he moved his chair, came back for his phone, and settled in a whole new place. Does he want these to come off as inspirational presentations, or informal visits with an exceptionally rude acquaintance (if he has thought any of that through at all)?

Gary, if you want these videos to reach people, and "be an incour'gment," if, as you claim, you've "got some diff'rint ones't wants me to go do live once in a while," start right in at the beginning with content. Let's face it, you repeat everything so many times, that people can tune in anywhere and catch up.

Of course, if it's just verbal masturbation, and you want to hear the sound of your own voice and make people wait while you fuss and putter and snort and suck your teeth, you're doing just fine.

Here are a few things I noticed. The expression he used for the person who will be preaching on Wednesday was "preacher-boy." He makes him sound like a child evangelist.

During his usual litany about God supplying his needs, he added something new: "Ah ain't rich an' ah ain't loanin' none out Hallelujah."

Sunday night, he included the need to fight in the list he got from his Bible reading. Now he says we just need to put on the whole armor of God and let God do the fighting. Make up your mind, Gary.

He pronounces Philistine with the accent on the second syllable - "f'LIST-een.

Gary, please:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by thoughtful
corruptible-seed riffles again