Dillards 83: WTG JILL - PUBLIC SCHOOL!!!

[seraaa]

On 3/4/2020 at 6:35 PM, Idlewild said:

And a democrat woman no less. Whom Jed will defeat with, as a poster on his thread said, the mighty combination of penis, gun and bible.

Because of this I, an non-American, will check the news for all of the top line 2020 US election results - who will be President of America! - plus this one super local race in Arkansas  

[HeartsAFundie]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:35 AM, finnlassie said:

I noticed someone in her comments on instagram going off about how they don't vote because Jesus didn't choose sides etc, and Jill just went... well nope I don't agree, I choose whom I see best fit etc etc. She did clarify that to her Jesus is still the upmost authority, but damn I'm glad to see that she isn't into that bullshit and openly responded to that. Then again, the Duggar house always been pro-politics and pro-voting, despite the voting choices being... hyeuck ick ooof. I just freaking hate Christians that go JeSuS iS oUR BiGgEsT AUtHoRoTy He WoULd Not hAvE PiCkeD SidEs err urhg durb dumb

I seem to recall reading around the 2016 election that Jill's political party was Unenrolled, so it appears she never toed her family Republican party line.   However, Derick was registered Republican. But who knows if that's still the same any more?    

[finnlassie]

6 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I seem to recall reading around the 2016 election that Jill's political party was Unenrolled, so it appears she never toed her family Republican party line.   However, Derick was registered Republican. But who knows if that's still the same any more?    

How do you know it was Unenrolled? I mean, this is just general wondering... because it seems like a lot of people in the States know what other people have voted for??? What in the heckaroni is that even?? Here in Finland voting and party secrecy is a pretty sacred thing, I honestly don't know how most of my friends vote.

[OyToTheVey]

1 hour ago, finnlassie said:

How do you know it was Unenrolled? I mean, this is just general wondering... because it seems like a lot of people in the States know what other people have voted for??? What in the heckaroni is that even?? Here in Finland voting and party secrecy is a pretty sacred thing, I honestly don't know how most of my friends vote.

Because most people parade their political choices on facebook or instagram. It's pretty obvious most of the time. 10 Bernie articles in a row kinda gives it away lol

[mpheels]

1 hour ago, finnlassie said:

How do you know it was Unenrolled? I mean, this is just general wondering... because it seems like a lot of people in the States know what other people have voted for??? What in the heckaroni is that even?? Here in Finland voting and party secrecy is a pretty sacred thing, I honestly don't know how most of my friends vote.

Voter registration and party affiliation is public record, as is participation in elections (that is, whether or not a person voted in a given election). Actual votes (candidates selected/endorsed) are not public record, but many people will openly talk about their votes and for many others it is pretty easy to infer their votes based on social/cultural norms and affiliations. 

[EmmaWoodhouse]

1 hour ago, mpheels said:

Voter registration and party affiliation is public record, as is participation in elections (that is, whether or not a person voted in a given election). Actual votes (candidates selected/endorsed) are not public record, but many people will openly talk about their votes and for many others it is pretty easy to infer their votes based on social/cultural norms and affiliations. 

This was my second presidential election and my first time voting Democrat.  In Tennessee (no clue about other states), you have to select your party at the polling center so that they'll give you the appropriate ballot.  As a semi-closeted Democrat (growing up in a Fox News world will do that to ya), I half expected the volunteer to give me a piece of her mind and preach me into Republicandom.  She didn't, but I wish that my vote could be as private as I want it to be.  The American voting system is a hot mess.

All that to say, it makes me sad that any Duggar to vote Democrat will eventually be outed, and possibly before they're ready to go public with a changing worldview.

[Antipatriarch]

2 hours ago, mpheels said:

Voter registration and party affiliation is public record, as is participation in elections (that is, whether or not a person voted in a given election). Actual votes (candidates selected/endorsed) are not public record,

This depends on the state you're in. In Minnesota before 2020, you did not have to register as belonging to a particular party, and you could vote in primaries without declaring -- you just had to make sure the votes on your ballot were all for one party (you couldn't mix and match). So here there was no such thing as a "registered Republican" or "registered Democrat" etc.

This year (controversially) they split out the R and D primary on Super Tuesday from the primary for the other (statewide) offices. This year, you have to take either a Republican or Democratic ballot, and your choice of ballot is given to the party (but not your vote on it, of course). You have to sign an affirmation that "I am in general agreement with the principles of the party for whose candidate I intend to vote." And, they did not add any legal protections around what the parties could do with the lists of who took their ballots; essentially, your choice of party would probably become public.

I wasn't willing to do that, so for the first time I sat out the primary.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Antipatriarch
clarification

[FluffySnowball]

5 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

This year, you have to take either a Republican or Democratic ballot, and your choice of ballot is given to the party (but not your vote on it, of course). You have to sign an affirmation that "I am in general agreement with the principles of the party for whose candidate I intend to vote." And, they did not add any legal protections around what the parties could do with the lists of who took their ballots; essentially, your choice of party would probably become public.

I wasn't willing to do that, so for the first time I sat out the primary.

I had no idea things are handled like this in parts of the US! As a politically rather outspoken German, I’m more willing to share what I vote for than many here who really keep it private. I reckon it’s a cultural thing due to our history and I don’t actually mind people being very uptight about their party affiliations. So while I’m not bothered to talk about my own choices, I feel very uneasy with how things are handled in your state, @Antipatriarch! So I completely understand why you weren’t willing to vote this time. Do you think that might actually be a reason behind the system; to discourage people from casting their vote? 

[finnlassie]

2 hours ago, mpheels said:

Voter registration and party affiliation is public record, as is participation in elections (that is, whether or not a person voted in a given election). Actual votes (candidates selected/endorsed) are not public record, but many people will openly talk about their votes and for many others it is pretty easy to infer their votes based on social/cultural norms and affiliations. 

That sounds extremely creepy and invasive to me.

[neuroticcat]

I’m in WA and it’s similar. You have to register either r or d to vote in the primary. As an independent I opted out. 

[Seculardaisy]

4 hours ago, mpheels said:

Voter registration and party affiliation is public record, as is participation in elections (that is, whether or not a person voted in a given election). Actual votes (candidates selected/endorsed) are not public record, but many people will openly talk about their votes and for many others it is pretty easy to infer their votes based on social/cultural norms and affiliations. 

Party affiliation is not public record in Michigan and we do not register Democrat or Republican here.

[just_ordinary]

3 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

I had no idea things are handled like this in parts of the US! As a politically rather outspoken German, I’m more willing to share what I vote for than many here who really keep it private. I reckon it’s a cultural thing due to our history and I don’t actually mind people being very uptight about their party affiliations. So while I’m not bothered to talk about my own choices, I feel very uneasy with how things are handled in your state, @Antipatriarch! So I completely understand why you weren’t willing to vote this time. Do you think that might actually be a reason behind the system; to discourage people from casting their vote? 

I agree. Election should be secret, so that everyone feels free to vote what they want. How do you make sure people are not shamed or pressured or forced to vote against their own heart? I might be naive but I believed the secrecy of the ballot is one fundamental part of the electorate principles in a democracy?????

[FluffySnowball]

34 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I might be naive but I believed the secrecy of the ballot is one fundamental part of the electorate principles in a democracy?????

That’s not naive at all, that’s the whole point! 

Edited March 7, 2020 by FluffySnowball

[dpndetfarm]

1 hour ago, Seculardaisy said:

Party affiliation is not public record in Michigan and we do not register Democrat or Republican here.

Actually that is not quite correct. Here is the list of what voter information is publically accessable for each state.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-use-of-voter-registration-lists.aspx

 

So as a deputy town clerk I can tell you that primaries for partisan elections are not designed by your state or local government. They are set up and organized by the state political party organizations. So don't bitch at the person manning your polling place about how your system works, what ballot you can take, etc. Bitch at your political party organizations. The state, counties, towns, etc only implement the process created by your party organizations.

Funny in a sarcastic kind of way, the parties, at least in my state, don't fund the elections. That falls to the towns and the state. Bastards!

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Maggie Mae]

https://voterrecords.com/ has people's voter registrations - it's public in the states that are listed on the homepage. Looks like Michigan is included. I look up people's registration information all the time - it's also useful to gather addresses and spouses names, and who used to live at certain addresses. It's pretty accurate. 

[finnlassie]

I'm feeling so disgusted right now by all of this information.

[Maggie Mae]

Here's some more information on US stuff.

In my state, we have more people registered as independent than either Republican or Democrat. I registered as a Democrat specificlly so I could vote in closed Democratic primaries, but I've heard that independents can request either ballot. 

Every state runs its own party primary, it's own state elections (vote for governor, state house, state senators, and state initiatives, judges), and then there are local elections (vote for Mayor, school board, local initiatives like alcohol tax or bag bans that are citywide, and bonds and other things). In many places, all this occurs on the same day and people don't always know the difference. However, in my area, municipal voting occurs in the spring, state and federal stuff happens in November. 

So groups will put statewide initiatives on the ballot that bring out high numbers, and that affects the federal stuff, and other races. Or groups will choose which election they think will be best to get their initiative passed - put something on the state ballot in year when we vote on president, you'll get more votes. Want to pass something that only Republican leaning supervoters care about? Stick on a ballot in the off years.

I wished our system was less complicated. All these factors lead to such manipulation of the system. 

If I had my way, all ballots would be mailed out, all three (or more - some people have counties and city) levels would be on the same day, people would have time to research all the issues and have the chance to be informed. 

I am a very weird person who looks up issues and people and prints the sample ballot. I still often arrive to find something on the ballot that I had no idea about. It also took me way too long to figure out which district I'm in for state house and state senate - I know who my reps are, but which numbers? No idea. School board? Not a clue. 

Sometimes the bonds are written in a way where no means yes. Trying to suss that out while a line forms is stressful. 

 

[haroldtheyrefundies]

I live in Mississippi and I had to absentee vote yesterday and I wasn't asked which party I was registered with (democrat). They asked if I was republican or democrat to give me the appropriate ballot but which party you are registered with doesn't matter here I'm pretty sure. Here you can be registered for a party but not have to only vote for that party. I've had to vote for some republicans for some local things. I'm pretty sure my mom is still a registered republican and she's been voting democrat since the 2016 election. 

[Karma]

When we go to vote in Australia, major parties and perhaps a few minor parties have a representative outside each polling station.  Each has how to vote cards for their party. You can take all or just the one you want. It’s a huge amount of paper but we can vote for who we want - it is a true secret ballot. 

[seraaa]

43 minutes ago, Karma said:

When we go to vote in Australia, major parties and perhaps a few minor parties have a representative outside each polling station.  Each has how to vote cards for their party. You can take all or just the one you want. It’s a huge amount of paper but we can vote for who we want - it is a true secret ballot. 

That's similar to us in the UK. The poll worker gives everyone the same ballot paper, and then you just mark who you want to vote for on it. That's how normal election day works. I guess the difference is that in the US you also can also physically go to the polls to vote in a primary?

Whereas here if you are a party member/registered supporter you might participate in internal party elections, but those are done within local branches and affiliated groups  and the final ballot is posted out to the members. And there is no accommodation for the neutral or completely unaffiliated to take part in internal party elections.

Edited March 7, 2020 by seraaa

[mpheels]

To clarify, ballots in the US are private/secret. If Jill were registered as a Democrat , we could infer that she’s voted in the Democratic primary, but would only know who she voted for if she told us. Many people in the US are pretty comfortable talking about their votes, and campaign contributions are public record as well. Anyone searching on me will see which candidates I supported through campaign contributions, and can infer how I voted. 

A lot of this stems from how freedom of speech and assembly are codified in the US, and also how we fund campaigns, and the fact that we have an overwhelming two-party system. Actual ballots are private, and it is entirely possible to vote without anyone knowing your political leanings as long as you don’t affiliate with a party or contribute financially to a campaign.

[finnlassie]

This whole system seems to make it even more impossible for the US to get out of two party favouritism/system.

[nausicaa]

I support open primaries but do understand one reason for closed primaries (where only registered party members can vote)-- the lack of sabotage voting. In an open primary state, a bunch of Trump supporters could vote for someone like Marianne Williamson to eff over the Dems in the general.

It does really bother me that campaign contributions are publically available. Especially as someone whose political views are all over the map. Isn't there another way the government already determined that you didn't exceed $2,800?

[Glasgowghirl]

Some elections especially the UK General ones, I've not known who I was going to vote for until last minute, two general elections ago I made a last minute decision in the polling booth to vote Labour over SNP, the party I usually always voted for but I was hoping Labour would be able to win and get rid of the Conservative's. I voted Labour again in December again hoping that we wouldn't be stuck with idiot Boris, I am still mad about that election result. I voted Green in the last EU election because I was sick of all the other parties and for next years Scottish Parliament election I will be keeping an eye on who impresses me more out of Nicola Sturgeon or Richard Leonard, the Scottish Labour Leader if neither of them do Green will get either one or both my votes, in the Scottish Parliament election you get a vote for a constituency MSP and a second vote for a party, and that helps choose additional regional MSPs. 

If I was in US I don't know what do, I am no fan of either party or any of the main runners at the moment. I would take Biden or Sanders over Trump any day but I sadly think that Trump will be able to defeat whoever gets the Democrat nomination, some of the ones who dropped out of the Democrat race impressed me more than Biden and Sanders. 

[HeartsAFundie]

7 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Here's some more information on US stuff.

In my state, we have more people registered as independent than either Republican or Democrat. I registered as a Democrat specificlly so I could vote in closed Democratic primaries, but I've heard that independents can request either ballot. 

 

 

That's how it is in MA.  Although we tend to lean blue, 56% of MA voters are Unenrolled, so voterwise we are purple.

As an Unenrolled in MA, you can take any primary ballot-Democrat or Republican-with no repercussions.  But it wasn't always that way.  Years ago, if you were unenrolled and voted in the MA primary, you were automatically enrolled in the party whose ballot you took, and had to go to City Hall to switch back to Unenrolled.  It was a major pain in the ass, and in a way was a form of voter suppression, because a lot of Unenrolled folks just didn't bother voting in the primary because it was too much of a hassle.  So a lot of voices went unheard.   Once they changed the voting format for Unenrolled folks it made life much easier as far as the primaries go.  And people started switching party affiliations-my entire family switched from Democrat to Unenrolled because we are big believers in freedom of choice whenever possible.   Since Unenrolled is the most popular party in MA now it seems many others feel the same way.  

And for the record, I, as well as many of my Unenrolled friends and relatives, were very sad when Pete Buttigieg dropped out.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by HeartsAFundie