Dillards 82: Derick Spills the Tea

[BullyJBG]

7 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

What is the Canada law?

Spanking is allowed, but: Not for children under 2

                                             Not for teenagers

                                             Objects cannot be used; only hands

                                             Faces and heads are not to be struck

                                             Nothing demeaning or degrading, which means don't do things like take off clothes or spank in public

                                             There is a clause about not using spanking on special needs kids who may not really understand

Personally I think it's a good intention, but there are things that are not covered. For example, they do not give any guidelines about how often a child should be spanked. Or how many strikes in a spanking. Or what one should and shouldn't spank for. But it is strongly recommended that a parent who would have the tendency to be abusive should not spank.

[Anna Bolinas]

I know this is kind of a weak argument because you could use it to say anything, but. Who's to say that Jill and Jessa, or Jill and Joy, don't spend time with each other? Maybe they are spending time with each other, but because there's still this lingering fear of JB, plus having to work around the filming schedule, it's just not documented as much. People like Jill definitely seem to put a lot of their lives on social media, but there's always the possibility that there are things missing from the picture so to speak.

[FloraDoraDolly]

10 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Also Edith Schaeffer was a huge follower and teacher of Charlotte Mason's methods. I can't say if they themselves were anti-spanking, but the reason behind the message Jill posted was not about spanking or not. Mason believed children were born persons, individuals. Not people you can train to be little robots. We are all born the people we are. So it's up to us (parents or teachers) to help grow the inner person in our little children. Mason believed this happened through lots of literature, lots of talking, and lots of nature. While the quote brings up spanking, I think it again is circling around Mason's teachings to just talk to you kids and enjoy their curiosities. We can't train the child, we nurture the child. I know many families who homeschool using the Mason methods and who still spank. So we can all take this as a sign that Jill doesn't spank, but I would take it all with the grain of salt. 

Fundie or not, this is all very different from the way the Duggars raised Jill. She was expected to obey her parents instantly. As one of the older kids, not only did she have to raise her siblings, she spent most of her childhood without much of anything to call her own. Her parents did not keep her safe from Josh, nor did they give her enough attention or an adequate education. And that meme Jill posted makes me believe she is now aware of this. Will it change her political beliefs? No, not yet. It will take her time to get there, if she ever does. But if she raises her own kids differently from the way she herself was raised, there is hope for them (especially if they don't spend a lot of time around the rest of the Duggars).

[Idlewild]

 I hope people are right when they predict Jill is learning to break away from the shitty cult of the patriarchy that JB has created. However I still suspect that if TLC said in order to counter the negative publicity they wanted to negotiate separate contracts with the adults, Jill and Derick would be right there in the queue. 

[xenobia]

It's been illegal to hit kids (and yes, I use the term hit which includes what you call spanking) in Sweden since 1979. No exceptions or excuses. And why is there even a word called "spanking"? If you hit someone, you hit someone. No matter if they are 3 or 43. 

https://sweden.se/society/smacking-banned-since-1979/

[mstee]

I wish the mentality would shift from not spanking= spoiling to a more thoughtful, gentle discipline. I grew up in So Cal and i wasn’t spanked and neither were my friends. Moved to Ohio and I don’t think I’ve met someone who wasn’t. A fellow nurse recently asked me if I “whip my baby”. She’s 20 months old. I was like “no?” Wtf. I usually shut down the conversation when asked if we spank by saying “I wasn’t, my husband was probably twice, and we are choosing not to and use other methods.”  I get a lot of “you don’t want her to be spoiled!” or “she’ll never respect you” or “you don’t want her to be one of those kids who is running wild”. Well, she’s 20 months old and she should be running wild. Also, I don’t think fearing your parent equals respecting your parent. 
I hope that Jill continues reflect on her upbringing and makes changes. 
 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

18 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

I'm not answering for Allthegoodnames, but as I read her comment, my understanding was more along the lines that it seems like Jill, because she and Derick are not supposed to be at the TTH unless JB has given the okay, misses out on a lot of general family/sibling support.  When I was a single mom, my parents lived about an hour away, in the home I grew up in.  Many times on the week-ends, my son and I would drive over either on a Friday night or Saturday morning and spend the weekend.  My brother and his wife and kids lived in a small house on the property for a few years and so the cousins could play together, I got to visit with my family, and it was just a nice way to spend a week-end.  Plus my mom would often say "you look tired, why don't you go take a nap.  We'll watch the little guy."  What a wonderful gift that was!  On the other hand, my brother and his wife could ask me, "hey do you mind if we run out to the store and leave the kids here with you?"  Just stuff like that.

So if the case is that Jill is unable to simply head over to her parents' house to hang out, visit with her siblings who might be there, let her little guys run around and play with their cousins, and get a bit of a break, then I do feel sorry about that.  I know how much that helped me out.  It's not that her sisters are supposed to help her out.  It's more about having family support available to you and knowing that it works both ways. 

You are correct, it is all about having support but also adult contact. Jill has a couple friends, but I'm guessing she only sees them once or twice a week and I think Derrick is gone most of the day/evening so she's alone for extended periods of times with the boys, without adult contact, and that gets to you, as you know.  Not to mention that Jill was always so close to her siblings and her parents and she's been denied that. 

[lizzybee]

8 hours ago, Anna Bolinas said:

I know this is kind of a weak argument because you could use it to say anything, but. Who's to say that Jill and Jessa, or Jill and Joy, don't spend time with each other? Maybe they are spending time with each other, but because there's still this lingering fear of JB, plus having to work around the filming schedule, it's just not documented as much. People like Jill definitely seem to put a lot of their lives on social media, but there's always the possibility that there are things missing from the picture so to speak.

Without spending a lot of time digging where I saw it from and it could be an IG story so gone forever, I do recall Jessa or Jill mentioning in passing rather recently that Jill was at Jessa's house. Then recently enough as in a few months ago there was the time Jill was antiquing with her siblings (Josiah/Lauren and I can't remember the other two, if it was John and Abby or Joe and Kendra). So yes, I agree that there really is no way to know how little or how much time Jill ultimately spends with her family. And we likely won't know if it escalates or de-escalates either. 

If there is one thing I'm envious of with the Duggars, it's for sure and FAR AND AWAY the familial support that they have. It's something I'd personally give up a lot to have. My husband and I have no moms we can ask for help. My dad works, my much younger sister's in college, his family is major weird - there's little to no asking "hey can you watch the kids?" with anyone if I need it. It's impacting our decisions of how many kids we can have vs how many we actually want just with how much I can handle personally having no one to call if I have an emergency and can't do everything. Jill does seem to have more than what we do and I'm glad for it, it's super tough not having someone outside of my spouse that I can truly relax and leave my kids with. We're both tired a lot and a lot gets put off until tomorrow indefinitely because mustering the energy to fold laundry for example is tough for both of us when downtime is something you're always hungry for. 

I do feel sorry for Jill if she's not able to ask her parents for help, if it's her husband who doesn't want her to or her dad that's against it, or if she doesn't want to because of a plethora of really good reasons (Making the assumption that this is even true here, too). The reasons are one thing and the reality of it is another and that's where the loss is actually. You can be against ideas and practices and also sorry for losing closeness with people you really love and care about. I'm glad she's at a place where it appears she's evaluating things and making a break from what she was taught to the betterment of her own family. I'm encouraged by that, but I can also feel sad for her that she's had to give up some relationship with people she undoubtedly loves and to process the mutual disappointment both parties definitely feel with each other at this point. It's a good thing, yes, but it's easier for me to see and say that from the outside. I remember when they moved back from their mission post and I felt genuinely happy for Jill that she'd have her sisters and parents back in her daily life because I knew they meant a lot to her. I think about that a lot still when I see now that she's still in a lot of ways isolated from them and whoever's decision that is, I know there's pain involved. I can be sorry for that and glad for her that she's making an effort to live her own life. 

The point I latched on to in this conversation that I agree with is that Jill is more likely feeling the reality of what it is having children that are 100% always your responsibility in comparison to Jessa who has an excessively long list of people and ways she can get a break or easily let her kids blow off steam with other kids. It's just different when there's tension and while Jill might still have the same numbers Jessa has to call if she needs help/a break, the ease of doing so is very much not equal to Jessa's. That has no bearing on who is a better mom or who is more suited to however many kids, but just a commentary on the fact that Jill's reality of being a SAHM is very different than Jessa's. Here's a real life example: Imagine needing to go to the OB and having to do a 3 hr glucose test while pregnant because you failed the one hour. You know you have to be there more than three hours but your two children are both under five and need stimulation, lunch, naps, etc. Realistically you can't keep them happy for that long without disturbing everyone else in the doctor's office. It's not fair to them or anyone else there to bring them along. If you're Jessa how easy would it be for you to get someone in the middle of the day during the work week to let your boys stay with them while you took care of this necessary appointment? Now imagine the same thing if you're Jill. I'll allege that it's easier even for Jessa to just get Ben to take over than it would be for Derick to be able to take over just because Ben and Derick's daily obligations are so different.  

As for Jessa, something Michelle said about her once really stuck with me, and I've mentioned it before. She said that Jessa was someone who was a hard sell on things but when she was convinced, she made up her mind about it, and once she did it was black and white. I think, within the context of Michelle's above statement, Jessa is able to stay where she is and is consistent within her family dynamics because she ultimately bought into their beliefs and culture and it seems right and sensible to her. I don't think she's entirely unchangeable but she's for sure more confident and comes across as much less insecure about things in general than Jill or Jinger who seem to have made major changes since they married and left home. Insecurity or being unsure about yourself can actually breed good in a situation like this because it can allow your mind to change more easily than if you weren't questioning anything about yourself at all. Jessa's mind is made up and it will be until Jessa makes her mind up about something else, if she ever does. I think it will have to be her idea to change her mind though, and not the influence of someone else that will get her there. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

10 hours ago, Anna Bolinas said:

I know this is kind of a weak argument because you could use it to say anything, but. Who's to say that Jill and Jessa, or Jill and Joy, don't spend time with each other? Maybe they are spending time with each other, but because there's still this lingering fear of JB, plus having to work around the filming schedule, it's just not documented as much. People like Jill definitely seem to put a lot of their lives on social media, but there's always the possibility that there are things missing from the picture so to speak.

You are right, we don't see everything, and maybe the siblings do hang out a lot more than we realize. I do hope that is the case, if that is what Jill and the rest of them want.

 

 

[SassyPants]

Jill does seem to have a a good network of friends, and Cathy, DD’s mom, appears to help quite a bit. Yes, DD’s family has terrible beliefs and attempts to use those beliefs to limit the rights of others, but in terms of functioning in society, they are head and shoulders above the Duggars. Cross Church is far more mainstream than how JD was raised, bowing to the Holy Altar of JB Duggar.

Much like Felicity V. with JV’s parents, I’m sure the Dillard boys have a functional grandparent relationship with Cathy. I don’t think JB and M are functional or willing grandparents, much like they weren’t truly functional parents. Part of the reason is time is so limited d/t the numbers. The day is never longer than 24 hours, no matter how many blessings or grand blessings birthed.

 

[SassyPants]

41 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

Without spending a lot of time digging where I saw it from and it could be an IG story so gone forever, I do recall Jessa or Jill mentioning in passing rather recently that Jill was at Jessa's house. Then recently enough as in a few months ago there was the time Jill was antiquing with her siblings (Josiah/Lauren and I can't remember the other two, if it was John and Abby or Joe and Kendra). So yes, I agree that there really is no way to know how little or how much time Jill ultimately spends with her family. And we likely won't know if it escalates or de-escalates either. 

If there is one thing I'm envious of with the Duggars, it's for sure and FAR AND AWAY the familial support that they have. It's something I'd personally give up a lot to have. My husband and I have no moms we can ask for help. My dad works, my much younger sister's in college, his family is major weird - there's little to no asking "hey can you watch the kids?" with anyone if I need it. It's impacting our decisions of how many kids we can have vs how many we actually want just with how much I can handle personally having no one to call if I have an emergency and can't do everything. Jill does seem to have more than what we do and I'm glad for it, it's super tough not having someone outside of my spouse that I can truly relax and leave my kids with. We're both tired a lot and a lot gets put off until tomorrow indefinitely because mustering the energy to fold laundry for example is tough for both of us when downtime is something you're always hungry for. 

I do feel sorry for Jill if she's not able to ask her parents for help, if it's her husband who doesn't want her to or her dad that's against it, or if she doesn't want to because of a plethora of really good reasons (Making the assumption that this is even true here, too). The reasons are one thing and the reality of it is another and that's where the loss is actually. You can be against ideas and practices and also sorry for losing closeness with people you really love and care about. I'm glad she's at a place where it appears she's evaluating things and making a break from what she was taught to the betterment of her own family. I'm encouraged by that, but I can also feel sad for her that she's had to give up some relationship with people she undoubtedly loves and to process the mutual disappointment both parties definitely feel with each other at this point. It's a good thing, yes, but it's easier for me to see and say that from the outside. I remember when they moved back from their mission post and I felt genuinely happy for Jill that she'd have her sisters and parents back in her daily life because I knew they meant a lot to her. I think about that a lot still when I see now that she's still in a lot of ways isolated from them and whoever's decision that is, I know there's pain involved. I can be sorry for that and glad for her that she's making an effort to live her own life. 

The point I latched on to in this conversation that I agree with is that Jill is more likely feeling the reality of what it is having children that are 100% always your responsibility in comparison to Jessa who has an excessively long list of people and ways she can get a break or easily let her kids blow off steam with other kids. It's just different when there's tension and while Jill might still have the same numbers Jessa has to call if she needs help/a break, the ease of doing so is very much not equal to Jessa's. That has no bearing on who is a better mom or who is more suited to however many kids, but just a commentary on the fact that Jill's reality of being a SAHM is very different than Jessa's. Here's a real life example: Imagine needing to go to the OB and having to do a 3 hr glucose test while pregnant because you failed the one hour. You know you have to be there more than three hours but your two children are both under five and need stimulation, lunch, naps, etc. Realistically you can't keep them happy for that long without disturbing everyone else in the doctor's office. It's not fair to them or anyone else there to bring them along. If you're Jessa how easy would it be for you to get someone in the middle of the day during the work week to let your boys stay with them while you took care of this necessary appointment? Now imagine the same thing if you're Jill. I'll allege that it's easier even for Jessa to just get Ben to take over than it would be for Derick to be able to take over just because Ben and Derick's daily obligations are so different.  

As for Jessa, something Michelle said about her once really stuck with me, and I've mentioned it before. She said that Jessa was someone who was a hard sell on things but when she was convinced, she made up her mind about it, and once she did it was black and white. I think, within the context of Michelle's above statement, Jessa is able to stay where she is and is consistent within her family dynamics because she ultimately bought into their beliefs and culture and it seems right and sensible to her. I don't think she's entirely unchangeable but she's for sure more confident and comes across as much less insecure about things in general than Jill or Jinger who seem to have made major changes since they married and left home. Insecurity or being unsure about yourself can actually breed good in a situation like this because it can allow your mind to change more easily than if you weren't questioning anything about yourself at all. Jessa's mind is made up and it will be until Jessa makes her mind up about something else, if she ever does. I think it will have to be her idea to change her mind though, and not the influence of someone else that will get her there. 

Well, Jinger and Jill have made adjustments because they both married men who were older, educated and had far more life experiences under their belt. Both Dereck and Jeremy were given a wider array of choices during life and clearly had more 1:1 parenting, since their families were not mega. Those men clearly have greater plans for their lives than working for JB Duggar.  Jessa married a teenager. When they married, Jessa had just as many experiences under her belt as Ben did. Very, very different dynamics going on in the Seewalds home. I do wonder about the growth that did not happen for Ben from the ages of 19- present because he’s been busy raising kids and not really out in the world outside of the TTH. I see the Seewalds choices as very limited, so they appear to toe the line by default.

[Dandruff]

8 hours ago, xenobia said:

It's been illegal to hit kids (and yes, I use the term hit which includes what you call spanking) in Sweden since 1979. No exceptions or excuses. And why is there even a word called "spanking"? If you hit someone, you hit someone. No matter if they are 3 or 43. 

https://sweden.se/society/smacking-banned-since-1979/

What happens if parents, and/or anyone else, are discovered to have hit a kid?

I'd like to think that this rule discourages abusive people from having kids.

[BullyJBG]

21 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

What happens if parents, and/or anyone else, are discovered to have hit a kid?

I'd like to think that this rule discourages abusive people from having kids.

I always wondered if there were parents who would use a line that I have read a lot of abused kids hear; "this is for your own good but don't tell anyone".

  Yes, I know people who live here in North America, who choose not to have kids because they believe they would've abused them, and I bless them.

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Jill does seem to have a a good network of friends, and Cathy, DD’s mom, appears to help quite a bit. Yes, DD’s family has terrible beliefs and attempts to use those beliefs to limit the rights of others, but in terms of functioning in society, they are head and shoulders above the Duggars. Cross Church is far more mainstream than how JD was raised, bowing to the Holy Altar of JB Duggar.

Much like Felicity V. with JV’s parents, I’m sure the Dillard boys have a functional grandparent relationship with Cathy. I don’t think JB and M are functional or willing grandparents, much like they weren’t truly functional parents. Part of the reason is time is so limited d/t the numbers. The day is never longer than 24 hours, no matter how many blessings or grand blessings birthed.

 

Yes, those grandchildren are special because they aren't just another number. 

[Exposedknees]

I think Jinger and Jill left the JB cult for the Jeremy and Derrick cults respectively. A different cult with some changes that appear modern, or hip, but still a controlling situation for both.

Jessa was more of a leader and she continues to be a leader in the marriage. I think that she has made some minor positive changes to her parenting style.  It's in her best interest financially to drink JB's koolaid, so she does.

I also wonder if Jill's abuse by Josh is discussed more, and rehashed by law-boy Derrick and that drives some of her anxiety.  All the sisters seemed to forgive Josh- and that was the end.  Jill may be regularly reminded of the trauma without professional help.  Derrick may be using both that and hospital bill to drive a wedge between Jill and her father. 

I've never gotten over the fact that the victims were supposed to just " get over it" and forgive Josh. Trauma like that does not go away or get brushed under the table. It manifests later. Maybe it's impacting Jill now.

It took me years of therapy, a severe bout of depression, and continuing use of antidepressants to come to terms with my sexual abuse. I don't forgive or forget but I am at peace.

[mollysmom]

18 hours ago, BullyJBG said:

Spanking is allowed, but: Not for children under 2

                                             Not for teenagers

                                             Objects cannot be used; only hands

                                             Faces and heads are not to be struck

                                             Nothing demeaning or degrading, which means don't do things like take off clothes or spank in public

                                             There is a clause about not using spanking on special needs kids who may not really understand

Personally I think it's a good intention, but there are things that are not covered. For example, they do not give any guidelines about how often a child should be spanked. Or how many strikes in a spanking. Or what one should and shouldn't spank for. But it is strongly recommended that a parent who would have the tendency to be abusive should not spank.

 

Damn. I wish this was a law when I was growing up. Not sure my mom would have listened to it anyway but it sure would have been nice. 

 

 

[AprilQuilt]

On 1/30/2020 at 5:40 AM, livinginthelight said:

Frank Schaeffer also wrote a fascinating book, "Crazy for God", in which he talks about growing up at L'Abri in Switzerland and describes participating in  the founding of the religious right as a means of mobilizing Christian political power through the harnessing of fear and anger. Frank initially went along with it, then eventually broke away and wrote about his tranformation away from fundamentalism.

The whole anti-gay and anti-abortion fundie platforms? These were specifically chosen by those in power as issues which would best mobilize the base. Frank tells all about it. He rubbed shoulders with big names in the Christian Right and has some very insightful commentary.

wow, thanks for this! my partner is a L'Abri baby, in that his parents met at one of its outposts and are still very very involved in it - some close family members worked with Francis Schaeffer himself, and one now publishes a lot on Schaeffer and Schaefferism. I'm hesitant to add any more details in case they are outing, but suffice it to say we get Schaeffer up the wazoo (what a thought) when we go home for the holidays. All this and we never knew about Frank Schaeffer. I just told my partner that this book existed and he's so excited to read it.

There's never any Schaeffer chat on FJ so I'm glad to see it here!

 

(and yeah, I don't think Jill is advocating an across-the-board ban on whacking kids, just to make time and space to enjoy them too. She's not the only loving parent to think both is possible. I actually think that if any Duggarling so far is making actual changes in their dogma and outlook, it's Jill. Jinger might be the other side of the country living a whole different life, but she is sitting pretty, and her religion got her there. Jill is the one who's been disappointed by the world. It's really small scale but I think actually reflecting on the kind of parenting you had and whether you want that for your kid, as we see her do often in terms of allowing them to dance, or celebrate halloween - such tiny normal things - is profound and radical enough. If we are waiting for a Duggar to overturn the tables and storm out and become some amazing lefty commie Pride-attending pro-choice advocate we'll be a long time waiting. But Jill is doing some proper work in her own little bubble.)

Edited January 31, 2020 by AprilQuilt

[neuroticcat]

I will never get why spanking is so important to fundies. I posted awhile back in a dead thread about my latest stupid fundie online spanking debate...putting some here because it still rankles.

So Above Rubies&co were my gateway fundies, and I followed the Trim Healthy Mama evolution with interest as they tried to become “normal” and still check in.

Pearl Barrett (one of the Nancy Campbell daughters who founded THM) posted a pro-spanking post on her public/personal-but-not-professional facebook profile and linked to an article Michael Pearl’s (of TTUAC infamy) website. Of course she got many swoons and a few pushbacks - some against whether spanking is “biblical” and some strong pushback against TTUAC, quotes from the book, requests for her to clarify, etc.

She deleted the post and posted a new woe-is-me-I’m-persecuted post about how she’s just suggesting spanking is a fine tool - never mentioned TTUAC and the fact that’s why she got negative replies - and saying she doesn’t like the gentle parenting trend. Got 500+ (!!!) we-love-you-Pearl and thanks for taking one for the team and “I spanked my kids and they were fine.” Admittedly, many of these women probably aren’t using TTUAC and are doing the more “normal” - spank my kids, pray with them, mess them up spiritually approach - but many of the women defended Michael and Debi Pearl and raved about the approach. How is this even possible?!? A few people pointed out the original article was the problem and eventually got blocked.

And Pearl herself, when pushed to clarify, refused to say anything negative about Michael and Debi Pearl saying people could “take the good and spit out the bad.” She also sort of claimed ignorance about the toxic TTUAC - how is that even possible? They are both fundie empires in the same state! - and said they’ve been maligned.

Anyway, I guess it shouldn’t be surprising - hello, fundieland - but WHY is hitting children the fundie hill of choice to die on?!?!? And how can people who pitch this on one side end up successful at all in the non-fundie world?

Whew! Thanks for letting me vent it guys!  Why are people proud of hitting their kids?!?!?

[LacyMay]

9 hours ago, Exposedknees said:

I also wonder if Jill's abuse by Josh is discussed more, and rehashed by law-boy Derrick and that drives some of her anxiety.  All the sisters seemed to forgive Josh- and that was the end.  Jill may be regularly reminded of the trauma without professional help.  Derrick may be using both that and hospital bill to drive a wedge between Jill and her father. 

If this is accurate it's pretty much despicable. Maybe Jill does need to process the past trauma. Maybe she doesn't. But if she does it should be on her terms in her time with a trained professional. And if Derrick is actually using her trauma do accomplish his own goals (even if he believes those goals are in her best interest.) He's a scummier human than I thought possible.

[BemusedByFundamentalism]

22 hours ago, xenobia said:

It's been illegal to hit kids (and yes, I use the term hit which includes what you call spanking) in Sweden since 1979. No exceptions or excuses. And why is there even a word called "spanking"? If you hit someone, you hit someone. No matter if they are 3 or 43. 

https://sweden.se/society/smacking-banned-since-1979/

Yeah, it's illegal too here in The Netherlands. It boggles my mind knowing that this isn't the case everywhere. 

[byzant]

3 hours ago, BemusedByFundamentalism said:

Yeah, it's illegal too here in The Netherlands. It boggles my mind knowing that this isn't the case everywhere. 

Yep Scotland to. 

[BullyJBG]

15 hours ago, mollysmom said:

 

Damn. I wish this was a law when I was growing up. Not sure my mom would have listened to it anyway but it sure would have been nice. 

 

 

Oh my; I was already in my 30s at the time, and married. I never have discussed this with my parents, but if that law had come out when I was 12 11/12, oh boy things could've got ugly! Starting at about 8ish, they would start saying things like "you're too old to be spanked but if you keep that up you'll get it anyway." I think their intent was to shame me into "behaving" but all it did was get me excited to "spank back" as soon as I get big enough. None of us got spanked as teenagers, but there were threats at times. I watched some "hand-slapping" with my younger siblings before they were 2; not sure where that fits in, and there were a couple of face-slaps to stop verbal protests, but otherwise, they pretty much followed it.

  Why people see it as so important? Maybe because it gives instant results(robotically, mind you) and makes them feel in control. Without it they may feel insecure in their authority.

 Those of you in countries where it's illegal, please talk more about it. Or direct me to other such threads.

  Oh yeah, happy dance on Jill's Instastory. Literally. Ok, just the kids, not her and Derick yet.(?)

[DarkAnts]

9 hours ago, LacyMay said:

If this is accurate it's pretty much despicable. Maybe Jill does need to process the past trauma. Maybe she doesn't. But if she does it should be on her terms in her time with a trained professional. And if Derrick is actually using her trauma do accomplish his own goals (even if he believes those goals are in her best interest.) He's a scummier human than I thought possible.

Jill might be getting help. Derick mentioned getting professional help in his sex advice post a while back. I hope she is. She is trying to navigate in a different world than the one she grew up in. 

[feministxtian]

Smacking/spanking my kids wouldn't have done a damn bit of good. I had to get inventive. I used psychological warfare on the little shits...The funny thing is it worked...my youngest swears he doesn't do stupid shit because he's afraid I'll fly out of the ether and the chancla will fly. Like...he went to a friend's house about a mile from here...got rip roaring drunk. Knew that staggering home on foot was the better choice than try to drive his car. Why? Because mama would have found him and given him the hairy eyeball of the century. 

Have I mentioned lately that I think my kids are incredible human beings? (I know, STFU about your kids woman)

[BullyJBG]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

Smacking/spanking my kids wouldn't have done a damn bit of good. I had to get inventive. I used psychological warfare on the little shits...The funny thing is it worked...

Have I mentioned lately that I think my kids are incredible human beings? (I know, STFU about your kids woman)

That's encouraging. I didn't have kids, and in my late 40s it's too late.(though my friend will hope for that for me right until I'm menopausal, lol) But right now I'm watching nieces and nephews be raised without spanking; in fact, without punishment is their goal but natural consequences do factor in. So far so good, even though around age 3-5 has been the most triggering for that.(where I watch and think which other relatives should NOT be here or else they'd be saying "boy s/he's so disrespectful don't you think s/he needs a spanking?" It's encouraging overall, though. It's like parenting is a partnership between kids and adults, not an authority vs subservient thing.