Dillards 82: Derick Spills the Tea

[feministxtian]

4 hours ago, lizzybee said:

Serious question as a mom of two toddler boys: Is there a mom of toddlers who isn't stressed and exasperated with her children at least some of the time? Mine drive me nuts and challenge me daily but I'm not about to fall apart or anything. Mine also get into everything they possibly can find that I might not like. ex: They were throwing dirt at each other yesterday out of my potted plant that sets on the kitchen table. I still love them more than life even if they do make me crazy.

Toddlers are God's way to tell you to stop having sex. Teenagers are God's way of making you wonder why you ever had sex in the first place. 

Mine are grown and still drive me nuts, worry me to death. My boys were REALLY active. My favorite line from those times was "take it outside, no blood on the carpet". BUT...you will always love them more than life itself. Now if they'd stop wrecking the house and gathering frequent flyer miles at the urgent care, life would be heaven. But, little dudes are right energetic and curious and everything is a learning experience for them. Yes, even dirt throwing...sending you love, light and strength. Hold on to those memories...the days go slowly but the years go so fast. When the hell did my kids grow up? They're 37, 32 and 29 now. I miss the little ones they were. 

[Melissa1977]

I highly doubt Jill is anti-spanking. But she may be trying a gentle-parenting approach. She's clearly not into extreme scheduling or trainings, so she may be hitting way less than her parents. 

I think that she shared the text because she found it beautiful overall, not because she's raising kids that exact way. But it's a good sign!

I know there are cruel people like Lori, that would mistreat even an only child. But I bet most fundies become worse and worse parents because the high number of children. I'm not sure about Joy, but I think Jessa, Jill and Jinger are doing their best and faaaaaar better than Michelle. 

[BullyJBG]

5 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I highly doubt Jill is anti-spanking. But she may be trying a gentle-parenting approach. She's clearly not into extreme scheduling or trainings, so she may be hitting way less than her parents. 

I think that she shared the text because she found it beautiful overall, not because she's raising kids that exact way. But it's a good sign!

 

Hmmmmmm, Jill and Derick, please move to Canada after you're done law school! Or would you have to take an extra semester to be able to pass the Canadian bar?

  Or, what are the chances the US will one day adopt the same, or similar, spanking law as Canada? As far as I know, Canada is the only country in the world that has ANYTHING of the sort; everywhere else, either spanking is legal, or it's illegal. It's been 16 years now since that law was implemented. Was there any mocking of it? Such as a cartoon of a Canadian parent administering a spanking and saying "sorry" after every hit?

[Howl]

@Xan: 

Quote

We've noticed how the little ones ran to older sisters for help and comfort instead of Michelle.

The sister-mom model is horribly flawed.  When the sister-mom, who a younger child has bonded with literally since birth, moves out of the house to marry, the child has lost the person most important to him or her.   If it's a her, though, she'll probably be assigned a new born to care for herself, so there's that.  

 

[nst]

26 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

Hmmmmmm, Jill and Derick, please move to Canada after you're done law school! Or would you have to take an extra semester to be able to pass the Canadian bar?

 

we don't want jill or derick thank you. 

[front hugs > duggs]

I feel like, again, we as a board never give Jill a break. She posts how everything is happy and great and #besthubbyever ? Her marriage must be in shambles because she's overcompensating on social media. She posts about how being a mom can be hard and stressful potentially in an attempt to relate to her followers? She's on the verge of a meltdown and can't handle being a parent. 

I think it's totally fair to criticize her when she is potentially ignoring safety standards for her children, like car seat safety. But I think we can read far too much into her social media and place narratives onto her story.

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I feel like, again, we as a board never give Jill a break.

Is that what we are here for?

[front hugs > duggs]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Is that what we are here for?

Oh, obviously not! But we are here to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism. And I guess I personally feel that if we place these narratives onto her, that's not really doing that. We are making assumptions about her life based on social media. We are assuming if she is happy, sad, overcompensating, breaking down, loves her kids, doesn't love her kids enough, hates being a mother, loves being a sister-mom. Often times those don't necessarily jive with discussing the dangers of fundamentalism.

 

[SilverBeach]

Just now, front hugs > duggs said:

Oh, obviously not! But we are here to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism. And I guess I personally feel that if we place these narratives onto her, that's not really doing that. We are making assumptions about her life based on social media. We are assuming if she is happy, sad, overcompensating, breaking down, loves her kids, doesn't love her kids enough, hates being a mother, loves being a sister-mom. Often times those don't necessarily jive with discussing the dangers of fundamentalism.

 

This is a little different than giving her a break. If folks don't want assumptions made about their life, they should stop plastering it all over social media.

FJ also snarks, it's not all dangers of fundamentalism all the time.  I'll give none of the fundies we discuss a break until they renounce Trump and stop working towards a theocracy. Dropping the smug holier-than-thou attitudes would be good too. 

[SassyPants]

31 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Oh, obviously not! But we are here to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism. And I guess I personally feel that if we place these narratives onto her, that's not really doing that. We are making assumptions about her life based on social media. We are assuming if she is happy, sad, overcompensating, breaking down, loves her kids, doesn't love her kids enough, hates being a mother, loves being a sister-mom. Often times those don't necessarily jive with discussing the dangers of fundamentalism.

 

BUT...the dangers of fundamentalism also apply to the dangers done to the children within fundie  homes. So, pointing out behaviors displayed that are less than healthy, safe or appropriate ( the car seat hack or the kids hanging out of the sunroof as Jill drives around the neighborhood, as a couple of examples) totally fits into discussing the dangers of these practices.  I know people are seemingly more concerned with the dangers imposed on others by these fundies, but their own kids are even more affected. Personally, I think the Duggar kids are socially inept. Like I said earlier, I question whether any of them have what it takes to successfully navigate the grind of daily life in our world.

[Idlewild]

I hope the Dillards are reflecting on the appalling practices and beliefs of Gothardism- but I will retain a healthy scepticism. Derick sought out JB- he was an educated young man with access to the internet- he was perfectly capable of researching but liked the idea of what the Duggars offered. 

The constant grifting for their ‘mission’ lifestyle and the white saviour behaviour and the flying back and forth for family parties- paid for by whom exactly? 

Support of Trump - enough said.

Despite his rants about TLC and JB Derick is canny enough to leave the door open by suggesting either going to UPtv or the kids negotiating directly with TLC- he wouldn’t mind some easy money.

I've said the same on the Anna and Josh thread- if they really care about the welfare of their family they would lock down social media and raise their kids in peace and privacy. But free stuff and attention has become addictive. 

I hope they prove me wrong- for the sake of the children who will have to make sense of this shit show.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Idlewild
Typo

[Bazinga]

Also Edith Schaeffer was a huge follower and teacher of Charlotte Mason's methods. I can't say if they themselves were anti-spanking, but the reason behind the message Jill posted was not about spanking or not. Mason believed children were born persons, individuals. Not people you can train to be little robots. We are all born the people we are. So it's up to us (parents or teachers) to help grow the inner person in our little children. Mason believed this happened through lots of literature, lots of talking, and lots of nature. While the quote brings up spanking, I think it again is circling around Mason's teachings to just talk to you kids and enjoy their curiosities. We can't train the child, we nurture the child. I know many families who homeschool using the Mason methods and who still spank. So we can all take this as a sign that Jill doesn't spank, but I would take it all with the grain of salt. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Also in the Jessa vs Jill mothering contest, remember that Jessa is RARELY alone with the kids, she is either with Ben, or at the TTH, where as Jill is on her own while Derrick is either at school, studying or at work. Jill has no access to the TTH, she has no access to sister moms, she has little access to her married siblings as they seem to want nothing to do with her, unless thye need something from her, Jessa needed Jill's help with labor, Joy needed Jill's support after losing Annabelle, but you sure don't see Jess or Jill helping Jill out with anything, or even acknowledging her assistance. as well. Which is fucking shitty of them.

She sees Michelle and Anna on birthdays, her birthday and her boys birthday, Jill isn't invited to Smugger's either. She's been cut off from her family for not kissing her fathers ass and letting him control her, her husband and the kids. Jessa toes the family line and lives under daddy's thumb, as do Joy & Austin, except Austin has his own business (we think, unless Boob is a major financier of said business). 

TL;DR Jessa has all kinds of help either w/ Ben or sistermoms, Jill is completely on her own, and NEVER gets a break from the boys unless Cathy takes them, and that is only when Derrick is around so she can spend time with him. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

she has little access to her married siblings as they seem to want nothing to do with her, unless thye need something from her, Jessa needed Jill's help with labor, Joy needed Jill's support after losing Annabelle, but you sure don't see Jess or Jill helping Jill out with anything, or even acknowledging her assistance. as well. Which is fucking shitty of them.

Are you saying you don't think, if Jill were in labor and needed Jessa that Jessa wouldn't be with her?  Or that if, heaven forbid, she had a stillbirth/miscarriage Joy wouldn't be there to support her?

Idk but there is nothing to indicate that's the case.

Are they supposed to help her do the day to day chores of raising two children when they have kids of their own?  You can't compare being there for someone in a crisis and helping them with daily life.  As some poster recently said, that's comparing apples to dolphins.  

[neuroticcat]

6 hours ago, BullyJBG said:

  Or, what are the chances the US will one day adopt the same, or similar, spanking law as Canada? As far as I know, Canada is the only country in the world that has ANYTHING of the sort; everywhere else, either spanking is legal, or it's illegal. 

What is the Canada law?

[EmmieJ]

26 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Are they supposed to help her do the day to day chores of raising two children when they have kids of their own?  You can't compare being there for someone in a crisis and helping them with daily life.  As some poster recently said, that's comparing apples to dolphins.  

I'm not answering for Allthegoodnames, but as I read her comment, my understanding was more along the lines that it seems like Jill, because she and Derick are not supposed to be at the TTH unless JB has given the okay, misses out on a lot of general family/sibling support.  When I was a single mom, my parents lived about an hour away, in the home I grew up in.  Many times on the week-ends, my son and I would drive over either on a Friday night or Saturday morning and spend the weekend.  My brother and his wife and kids lived in a small house on the property for a few years and so the cousins could play together, I got to visit with my family, and it was just a nice way to spend a week-end.  Plus my mom would often say "you look tired, why don't you go take a nap.  We'll watch the little guy."  What a wonderful gift that was!  On the other hand, my brother and his wife could ask me, "hey do you mind if we run out to the store and leave the kids here with you?"  Just stuff like that.

So if the case is that Jill is unable to simply head over to her parents' house to hang out, visit with her siblings who might be there, let her little guys run around and play with their cousins, and get a bit of a break, then I do feel sorry about that.  I know how much that helped me out.  It's not that her sisters are supposed to help her out.  It's more about having family support available to you and knowing that it works both ways. 

[haroldtheyrefundies]

36 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Also in the Jessa vs Jill mothering contest, remember that Jessa is RARELY alone with the kids, she is either with Ben, or at the TTH, where as Jill is on her own while Derrick is either at school, studying or at work. Jill has no access to the TTH, she has no access to sister moms, she has little access to her married siblings as they seem to want nothing to do with her, unless thye need something from her, Jessa needed Jill's help with labor, Joy needed Jill's support after losing Annabelle, but you sure don't see Jess or Jill helping Jill out with anything, or even acknowledging her assistance. as well. Which is fucking shitty of them.

She sees Michelle and Anna on birthdays, her birthday and her boys birthday, Jill isn't invited to Smugger's either. She's been cut off from her family for not kissing her fathers ass and letting him control her, her husband and the kids. Jessa toes the family line and lives under daddy's thumb, as do Joy & Austin, except Austin has his own business (we think, unless Boob is a major financier of said business). 

TL;DR Jessa has all kinds of help either w/ Ben or sistermoms, Jill is completely on her own, and NEVER gets a break from the boys unless Cathy takes them, and that is only when Derrick is around so she can spend time with him. 

That is not the married siblings' fault though. That is 100% Jim Bob's fault. Derick said on Instagram that Jill needs to talk to JIm Bob and ask him if it's okay to be with her siblings, the ones who live at the TTH or the married ones. He said that Jessa wanted Jill's help with Ivy's birth since the rest of their family was out of town at the time (thanks, Carlin, for that) but she needed to ask Jim Bob if her sister can help her. Because Jim Bob is shitty, not the siblings. They're just following Jim Bob's rules (he has to be around in order for Jill to be with her siblings) so they won't end up in Jill's situation.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, EmmieJ said:

I'm not answering for Allthegoodnames, but as I read her comment, my understanding was more along the lines that it seems like Jill, because she and Derick are not supposed to be at the TTH unless JB has given the okay, misses out on a lot of general family/sibling support.  When I was a single mom, my parents lived about an hour away, in the home I grew up in.  Many times on the week-ends, my son and I would drive over either on a Friday night or Saturday morning and spend the weekend.  My brother and his wife and kids lived in a small house on the property for a few years and so the cousins could play together, I got to visit with my family, and it was just a nice way to spend a week-end.  Plus my mom would often say "you look tired, why don't you go take a nap.  We'll watch the little guy."  What a wonderful gift that was!  On the other hand, my brother and his wife could ask me, "hey do you mind if we run out to the store and leave the kids here with you?"  Just stuff like that.

So if the case is that Jill is unable to simply head over to her parents' house to hang out, visit with her siblings who might be there, let her little guys run around and play with their cousins, and get a bit of a break, then I do feel sorry about that.  I know how much that helped me out.  It's not that her sisters are supposed to help her out.  It's more about having family support available to you and knowing that it works both ways. 

If that were what she meant I fail to see how it would be "fucking shitty" of Jessa and Joy to not help her when it isn't their fault she can't hang out at their family home.  

[EmmieJ]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If that were what she meant I fail to see how it would be "fucking shitty" of Jessa and Joy to not help her when it isn't their fault she can't hang out at their family home.  

Okay.  Since I'm not that poster, I can't and don't speak for her. 

[EmmieJ]

26 minutes ago, haroldtheyrefundies said:

That is not the married siblings' fault though. That is 100% Jim Bob's fault. Derick said on Instagram that Jill needs to talk to JIm Bob and ask him if it's okay to be with her siblings, the ones who live at the TTH or the married ones. He said that Jessa wanted Jill's help with Ivy's birth since the rest of their family was out of town at the time (thanks, Carlin, for that) but she needed to ask Jim Bob if her sister can help her. Because Jim Bob is shitty, not the siblings. They're just following Jim Bob's rules (he has to be around in order for Jill to be with her siblings) so they won't end up in Jill's situation.

I do see that the other adult siblings aren't willing to cross JB because that would then mean they'd also be shunned and have to find their own way to financially support themselves. 

[SassyPants]

54 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I do see that the other adult siblings aren't willing to cross JB because that would then mean they'd also be shunned and have to find their own way to financially support themselves. 

Exactly. Much of the fault falls on JB and M’s shoulders, as they foisted limited people onto society, and for some of those families the spouses chosen and/or approved by JB, are equally limited. I know JIll’s life might appear harder than her sisters’ lives, AT THE MOMENT, but in the long run, I think her family will do better. The struggles that we are seeing at this point are what happens when one is cut from the umbilical cord.  Because the DIllards are no longer associated with TLC and the Bank of JB Dog and Pony Show, they have needed to find another way to financial and emotionally support their family, which, IMO, are healthy things. 
 

So many of those other families will be screwed unless they figure out how to take care of themselves in the real world, and without JB, the puppeteer meeting all their needs, in exchange for controlling their lives.

[Idlewild]

30 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Exactly. Much of the fault falls on JB and M’s shoulders, as they foisted limited people onto society, and for some of those families the spouses chosen and/or approved by JB, are equally limited. I know JIll’s life might appear harder than her sisters’ lives, AT THE MOMENT, but in the long run, I think her family will do better. The struggles that we are seeing at this point are what happens when one is cut from the umbilical cord.  Because the DIllards are no longer associated with TLC and the Bank of JB Dog and Pony Show, they have needed to find another way to financial and emotionally support their family, which, IMO, are healthy things. 
 

So many of those other families will be screwed unless they figure out how to take care of themselves in the real world, and without JB, the puppeteer meeting all their needs, in exchange for controlling their lives.

The only caveat I have to this is that Jessa, Joy, John, Joe and Josiah are all parents themselves. ( I discount Josh as he’s proved himself to be a turd without help from anyone). They may have limited education and are still financially tied to JB but can they honestly look at their children and think ‘if you don’t do exactly as I say, even into your 20s and after you’ve left home, I’ll cut you off and forbid your  siblings from meaningful contact’.

Jessa is quite sassy at slapping back anyone who tries to dis her on Instagram- is she really so cowed that she lets her parents dictate who can help her when she goes into labour? Why did JB’s view even come into the equation? If Jessa wants her sister, doesn’t she just call Jill & ask her to come over? Or was it the fact it was going to be filmed? I just don’t understand why adults would accept behaviour like this- they must know there’s no show without them. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Idlewild
Typo

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

The only caveat I have to this is that Jessa, Joy, John, Joe and Josiah are all parents themselves. ( I discount Josh as he’s proved himself to be a turd without help from anyone). They may have limited education and are still financially tied to JB but can they honestly look at their children and think ‘if you don’t do exactly as I say, even into your 20s and after you’ve left home, I’ll cut you off and forbid your  siblings from meaningful contact’.

Jessa is quite sassy at slapping back anyone who tries to dis her on Instagram- is she really so cowed that she lets her parents dictate who can help her when she goes into labour? Why did JB’s view even come into the equation? If Jessa wants her sister, doesn’t she just call Jill & ask her to come over? Or was it the fact it was going to be filmed? I just don’t understand why adults would accept behaviour like this- they must know there’s no show without them. 

Brainwashed

Afraid

Limited

They are all convinced that JB has all the answers. He entices/controls them with cars, houses, travel and likely insurance. They work, and if what DD has said is true, their dad gets the paycheck. What kind of neurotypical adult finds that agreement satisfactory? 
Also, some of the other kidults might look at Jill’s life and think, nope, I’ll keep my ship tied to dad’s.

[Mlissmartin]

4 hours ago, Idlewild said:

The only caveat I have to this is that Jessa, Joy, John, Joe and Josiah are all parents themselves. ( I discount Josh as he’s proved himself to be a turd without help from anyone). They may have limited education and are still financially tied to JB but can they honestly look at their children and think ‘if you don’t do exactly as I say, even into your 20s and after you’ve left home, I’ll cut you off and forbid your  siblings from meaningful contact’.

Jessa is quite sassy at slapping back anyone who tries to dis her on Instagram- is she really so cowed that she lets her parents dictate who can help her when she goes into labour? Why did JB’s view even come into the equation? If Jessa wants her sister, doesn’t she just call Jill & ask her to come over? Or was it the fact it was going to be filmed? I just don’t understand why adults would accept behaviour like this- they must know there’s no show without them. 

I assumed it was because Jessa was at her parents house but not her own? Would she really need her dad's permission to invite Jill over to HER house!?

[neuroticcat]

Also as we see with Jill it is a long and messy process to break free from toxic family of origin dynamics. Slapping back at “outsiders” online or out of the cult is one thing; breaking out of how things have always been - dynamics supported by the cult authority structure of headship - from the family that has literally been your only community is another. Add to that the hammer of religion: it’s not just rebelling against your parents to be a separate person, but you’re defying God!, and it’s a monumental effort to even make small decisions that go against JBs authority.

A healthy individuated adult can say , “No, Pops. I am an adult. Step back.” An abused and enmeshed adult - even a more outspoken one like Jessa- can’t imagine that. It’s possible- just won’t be easy. And will be costly.

I think what Jill is doing is actually very difficult and brave. Even the baby steps are huge given the brainwashing. Hopefully it gets easier with time and the freedom of healthy boundaries. For the other siblings they have the small benefit that she is already out and they could turn to her as someone gets it.