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Coconut Flan

Dillards 82: Derick Spills the Tea

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Alisamer

Quoted from @Xan (I think) in the previous thread:

Quote

I do think there is a tipping point where this became much easier for Michelle.  As soon as the older girls were able to do the cooking and child care, she was able to step back.  We've noticed how the little ones ran to older sisters for help and comfort instead of Michelle.  She opted out but still got the full "mother of the year" treatment just for having given birth so many times.  

I agree with this. I think Michelle might even agree with all but the "opted out" part. A couple weeks ago I was in a checkout line where a woman was asking another about her family, and the one answering was going on about having 9 kids and how "the more you have, the easier it gets!". I'm sure Michelle would agree. (This woman also then, un-ironically, bragged about her two oldest kids - one is a nun, the other is in seminary to become a priest. My thought? No wonder! They've already raised YOUR kids, so no surprise they're making sure not to have their own! Too bad the Duggarlings don't have an out like that, though Jana seems to be successfully delaying things at least.)

I think both JB and Michelle are fame whores, and also were unwilling to do anything that might even look like admitting they were wrong. They're just lucky Michelle didn't die anywhere along the way.

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PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea

The debate on the last page about whether Jim Bob can truly love Michelle while getting her pregnant after a very high-risk pregnancy made me think: this is the problem with their weird belief system, it makes them prioritize faith as a way to undertake dangerous behaviours with (they hope) no consequences, even when their love, emotions, common sense etc. might give them pause.

It's pretty amazing how effective this type of brainwashing can be, overprinting people's natural common sense, curiosity, concern and love for their partner...

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seraaa
16 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

The debate on the last page about whether Jim Bob can truly love Michelle while getting her pregnant after a very high-risk pregnancy made me think: this is the problem with their weird belief system, it makes them prioritize faith as a way to undertake dangerous behaviours with (they hope) no consequences, even when their love, emotions, common sense etc. might give them pause.

It's pretty amazing how effective this type of brainwashing can be, overprinting people's natural common sense, curiosity, concern and love for their partner...

And they think they are doing the right thing. To them, and from their perspective, it is loving. Also, just because they are choosing to undergo risks - and they did choose it - doesn't mean they don't love each other. IMO.

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Xan
18 minutes ago, seraaa said:

And they think they are doing the right thing. To them, and from their perspective, it is loving. Also, just because they are choosing to undergo risks - and they did choose it - doesn't mean they don't love each other. IMO.

I think Jim Bob being willing to lose Michelle in service to his religious beliefs means that he loves his religion more than he loves Michelle.  IMO.

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Don'tlikekoolaid

No no no.......fundies are special peeps, God is watching over them, nothing bad can happen to Gods special holy ones....until it does.  

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.  Or something.  

I once told a Medicine Man fundamentalists lay back in the arms of Jesus when things get rough.  His response was “ shit, no way, are you kidding me?!”

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Wine time!
Maggie Mae
1 minute ago, Xan said:

I think Jim Bob being willing to lose Michelle in service to his religious beliefs means that he loves his religion more than he loves Michelle.  IMO.

I'm sure he thinks that he's supposed to love God more than Michelle. This is a religion that has a story about a dude sacrificing his son because God said so. The fact that Michelle almost died (If she did) just makes him closer to Abraham/God.

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Queen Of Hearts
18 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm sure he thinks that he's supposed to love God more than Michelle. 

Of course he is.  Remember J-O-Y?  Jesus first, others second, yourself last.  Michelle is 'other.'  

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neuroticcat

I think they’re both all in to the cult mindset and egg each other on. Why not!? It’s worked out for them. 

I think Michelle was maybe driving the as-many-babies-as-God-gives bus but JB was always the first to announce to strangers, “We have 19 kids!” On all the traveling specials. He gets supply from it too. 

It seems Josie was the first time their philosophy might have failed them, but I remember  them saying, “No greater love has someone than laying ones life down.”

I think they genuinely believe it all and part of the cult is surrounding yourself with “fellowship “ and conferences to support it. They can reject anything that challenges it. 

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seraaa
54 minutes ago, Xan said:

I think Jim Bob being willing to lose Michelle in service to his religious beliefs means that he loves his religion more than he loves Michelle.  IMO.

Oh no, I don't dispute that - the idea of it is more important that the individual, which, yikes. But I do think they're on the same page about this

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Peaches-n-Beans
3 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Quoted from @Xan (I think) in the previous thread:

I agree with this. I think Michelle might even agree with all but the "opted out" part. A couple weeks ago I was in a checkout line where a woman was asking another about her family, and the one answering was going on about having 9 kids and how "the more you have, the easier it gets!". I'm sure Michelle would agree. (This woman also then, un-ironically, bragged about her two oldest kids - one is a nun, the other is in seminary to become a priest. My thought? No wonder! They've already raised YOUR kids, so no surprise they're making sure not to have their own! Too bad the Duggarlings don't have an out like that, though Jana seems to be successfully delaying things at least.)

I think both JB and Michelle are fame whores, and also were unwilling to do anything that might even look like admitting they were wrong. They're just lucky Michelle didn't die anywhere along the way.

You know I never really thought of it like that. By living at home and being a Stay at Home Daughter, she has successfully delayed the number of children she can have. If she waits until 34 or 35 to get married she probably won't have more then 4 or 5 kids. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of pressure from JB and M to stay home and do everything, but I do have to wonder how much not wanting a massive family has to do with it. **

*bolding is mine

**also this is all pure speculation

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Cleopatra7

JB and Michelle are both into Gothardism together. It’s a thing they did with each other, with eyes fully open. With some of these families, one spouse (usually the wife) comes home with literature from some weird sect and demands that everyone falls in line. With JB and Michelle, they’re both all in for the long haul. When Josie was delivered, JB was certainly worried, but when she survived, both he and Michelle probably thought this was a fluke and the next pregnancy would be normal.

What I don’t get is why, if dresses/skirts only, long hair, etc is such a big deal to JB, he didn’t make that belief a non negotiable thing for any potential suitor? If he’s the gatekeeper, then he could have sent Derick and Jeremy away once they admitted that they don’t have the same dress standards. If Jill is depressed and confused, it’s because she did everything her father said, yet she’s become estranged from her family.

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patsymae
2 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm sure he thinks that he's supposed to love God more than Michelle. This is a religion that has a story about a dude sacrificing his son because God said so. The fact that Michelle almost died (If she did) just makes him closer to Abraham/God.

Well, not that different from at least the pre-Vatican (and maybe now but so many ignore it) Catholic idea that with a choice you have to save the baby and not the mother, even if you are leaving 11ty billion kids without a mother. Or, still don't use birth control, even if, like my mother, she was told by doctors to stop after 3. She had 3 more. Because Father said so.

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sansan

Jim Dud is getting everything he deserves. They taught the daughters to follow their men and now he is the buffoon. I hope all the girls or sons go Hell West and Crooked. It is what he deserves. I am really beginning to appreciate Derick (and Jeremy), they are going against the rules, good for them.

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Daisy0322
2 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

If he’s the gatekeeper, then he could have sent Derick and Jeremy away once they admitted that they don’t have the same dress standards. If Jill is depressed and confused, it’s because she did everything her father said, yet she’s become estranged from her family.

I really wish we could see the questionaire The potential suitors were asked. I’m so curious what JB actually asks and if it’s the same for each daughter. 

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Someone Out There
5 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

What I don’t get is why, if dresses/skirts only, long hair, etc is such a big deal to JB, he didn’t make that belief a non negotiable thing for any potential suitor? If he’s the gatekeeper, then he could have sent Derick and Jeremy away once they admitted that they don’t have the same dress standards. If Jill is depressed and confused, it’s because she did everything her father said, yet she’s become estranged from her family.

I thought the dress/skirt thing was an issue Michelle had rather than JB.

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breakfree
9 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

What I don’t get is why, if dresses/skirts only, long hair, etc is such a big deal to JB, he didn’t make that belief a non negotiable thing for any potential suitor? If he’s the gatekeeper, then he could have sent Derick and Jeremy away once they admitted that they don’t have the same dress standards. If Jill is depressed and confused, it’s because she did everything her father said, yet she’s become estranged from her family.

I'm sure at least some of the men lied, purposefully or not,on the questionnaire anyway, but I don't think the pants thing is a deal breaker to them. Even in their cult to make it a deal breaker would rule out many otherwise 'acceptable' spouses. Further in the Growing Up Duggar book the girls themselves even basically said it wasn't a critical part of their beliefs but a personal choice (in retrospect obviously not their own personal choice) and that they knew many godly true believers with different dress standards.

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Wine time!
Maggie Mae
7 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

I really wish we could see the questionaire The potential suitors were asked. I’m so curious what JB actually asks and if it’s the same for each daughter. 

I wonder if it's been updated. The idea of these guys filling out a Google form application to date a Duggar amuses me. It also would not surprise me if one of the questions was "which daughter are you interested in" ..

Or daughter(s). I mean, it's in the Bible that someone wanted the pretty young daughter but had to marry the old one first. 

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Pretzel
4 hours ago, Someone Out There said:

I thought the dress/skirt thing was an issue Michelle had rather than JB.

My memory could trick me but I'm pretty sure we've seen Grandma Mary wear pants. If anything is authentic at all, it's Jim Bob's love and adoration of his mom, and if his mom did it it can't be that wrong. His sister wears pants as well and AFAWK, Deanna and JB get along well. I don't think his issue is his daughter wearing pants but much rather the deviation from his belief system, of which, I think, pants/skirts are a less important detail than, say, letting JB have full financial control. 

Edited by Pretzel

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SassyPants

JB’s own father verbally disagreed with JB’s life and headship plan, and JB verbally retaliated by claiming JL had a drinking problem and was too lazy to work. Apple, tree and Karma all rolled into 1. One of these SILs is going to spill the truth one of these days. If only Jeremy was willing to actually work, he could also completely avoid the Duggars crazy train. JB CONTROLS VIA THE OLD PURSE STRINGS. 

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Cleopatra7
5 hours ago, Pretzel said:

My memory could trick me but I'm pretty sure we've seen Grandma Mary wear pants. If anything is authentic at all, it's Jim Bob's love and adoration of his mom, and if his mom did it it can't be that wrong. His sister wears pants as well and AFAWK, Deanna and JB get along well. I don't think his issue is his daughter wearing pants but much rather the deviation from his belief system, of which, I think, pants/skirts are a less important detail than, say, letting JB have full financial control. 

I remember Grandma Mary wearing pants early on when JL was still around, and then it seemed like she was skirts only once she became the live in laundry lady. But I peaced out of watching the episodes just before the Jubilee debacle, so I could be wrong. My theory is that skirts only is a big deal for JB and Michelle, but they can’t really say how they feel about it on TV without alienating the five people who aren’t hatewatching it. They’ve always been vague about why they do things, though.

 I do wonder if the only gate keeping JB does is asking for a young man’s testimony or something like that. Unlike some patriarchs, JB isn’t into theology and I doubt that the nuances of what Ben believes vs what Derick believes registers with him. 

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Sullie06

In my opinion, I don't think JB and Michelle thought they were doing anything "risky" by having another child after Josie. I remember when they announced #20 there was a video on TLC where they talked about Pre-Ecclampsia and the risk of it happening again and JB says Michelle had it with Jana/JD and then not again until Josie. They really feel they are just doing what is God's will and that God's love will protect them. I think Josie living just spurned that belief even more. 

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Melissa1977

Pants are not such a problem. Women on their circles wore pants, even shorts and regular bathsuits. It has been stated by some formers fundies who write here and who were raised in the same social circles.

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llg1234

I wonder how Derick would feel about having a phrase that originated from drag culture as the title of a thread about his family. :think:

Not sure he's worthy of it, tbh. Especially since this 'tea' is weak as hell.

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HarryPotterFan
19 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Of course he is.  Remember J-O-Y?  Jesus  Jim Bob first, others second, yourself last.  Michelle is 'other.'  

FTFY 

19 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I think they’re both all in to the cult mindset and egg each other on. Why not!? It’s worked out for them. 

I think Michelle was maybe driving the as-many-babies-as-God-gives bus but JB was always the first to announce to strangers, “We have 19 kids!” On all the traveling specials. He gets supply from it too. 

It seems Josie was the first time their philosophy might have failed them, but I remember  them saying, “No greater love has someone than laying ones life down.”

I think they genuinely believe it all and part of the cult is surrounding yourself with “fellowship “ and conferences to support it. They can reject anything that challenges it. 

This is going to sound really crass and insensitive - Wasn’t Josie delivered early to prevent Michelle from dying?  How is that different than a woman getting an abortion to not die? They’re really lucky Josie survived. Josie had amazing doctors and nurses. But sadly, too many times a micro-premie has amazing doctors and nurses but doesn’t survive.

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