Dillards 82: Derick Spills the Tea

[pook]

My father spanked me on my bare ass when I was 16.  Surprisingly, I continue to speak to him.  Not surprisingly, this was the beginning of my life-long struggle with MDD and GAD.  It's been freeing to finally realize just how toxic my upbringing was.

[Perrierwithlemon]

1 hour ago, BullyJBG said:

It's like parenting is a partnership between kids and adults, not an authority vs subservient thing.

I agree. Although I don't have kids, I think that parenting should be more about helping the child to become a good adult rather than making them a good kid. I was raised in a way where the focus was being a good kid, constantly obeying my parents, setting a good example for my siblings, etc. As an adult (and even a bit as a teen), I quickly realized that I might be missing something -- like decision making skills, social skills, how to maturely process emotions, etc. I've had to do my own research on those things, and although I'm getting better, it's a slow process. Being physically punished for mistakes, misunderstandings, and even bad behavior is not how the real world works. My cousin is Canadian and her parents never spanked her. If she did something bad, she would get a toy confiscated for a few hours or something like that. I think that sort of punishment is much more akin to the real world (e.g., getting your driver's license taken away for bad driving). 

My guess is that Jill (and the rest of the Duggars) had the "be a good child" upbringing, but even worse. They were trained to appear as model children for their audience -- setting a good example, keeping sweet, helping their siblings, etc. They were given a lot of emotional responsibility and pressure at young ages. When they (mostly the daughters) grow up, they are pushed into marriage and motherhood right away. This leaves no time for redeveloping/reinventing themselves (like what I am able to do). All this makes me believe that there is a lot more issues that what they choose to show us. I think a lot goes on behind the scenes. You can't expect these people (like Jill) not to be affected by their upbringing.

[FleeJanaFree]

I've never shared this story with anyone before, so why not a bunch of strangers?

I wouldn't say I grew up in an absolutely grossly toxic home. But...my parents were emotionally negligent and would smack us occasionally when they were frustrated we weren't listening/fighting with siblings. I can't even remember the specific background of why I was even being punished, but when I was 12ish my mom smacked me and I swear I remember my soul changing. I thought she overreacted/wasn't listening to my side of the story. I decided in that moment I would keep my mom from me at an emotional distance forever. I was done with her. And now im 32 and it's still the same. We don't have much of a relationship. We meet up for holidays and sometimes drop by each others home when in town. But I don't call her on a whim, I don't confide jack shit in her. I've never spoken to her about a personal problem or a boyfriend. She's not someone I turn to for advice or a deep conversation. 

spanking/hitting does not earn respect from me. One could think smacking their kid occasionally doesn't have long term consequences, but for me it did.

[feministxtian]

about natural consequences: my youngest was about 18 months old at the time...I was cooking dinner and had something in the oven. The oven door would get hot...little one came up to it and went to put his hands on it. I shoo'd him away and said "no, hot". He did it again and I did the same thing again. Third time I let him touch the door...he backed away and went "hooooooooooot". He never touched the oven door again. Every time he'd go by the oven, he'd point and say "hooooooot". I did that sort of thing regularly with all 3. Like i said...spanking them would NOT have worked. My parents tried that spanking crap with me so I just learned how to lie and sneak. 

[EmmyJay]

On the spanking discussion; I wasn't spanked because my childhood dog did not like people touching me. Dad got bit by the dog for getting loud with me (hard of hearing; emotion makes him super loud) and that was that. A family friend nearly needed stitches for poking me because that dog did not like it. He was in shock that the dog was that protective of me.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

13 minutes ago, EmmyJay said:

On the spanking discussion; I wasn't spanked because my childhood dog did not like people touching me. Dad got bit by the dog for getting loud with me (hard of hearing; emotion makes him super loud) and that was that. A family friend nearly needed stitches for poking me because that dog did not like it. He was in shock that the dog was that protective of me.

Good dog!  I love that dog.

[SassyPants]

Just to weigh in on the other side, my parents did not spank very much ( I’m in my 60s), so lots of parents did spank, but what my parents did say and scream was at times very hurtful and mean. I know these things were said out of a sense of frustration and being overwhelmed. Unfortunately, my kids would probably say I said some terrible things along the way too. God kids can reallllllllllly push buttons, can’t they? 

[JenniferJuniper]

5 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

 God kids can reallllllllllly push buttons, can’t they? 

As can elderly parents with dementia.  Feeling a bit guilty over losing it for a few seconds last night, but I reckon I'm getting paid back for any button pushing I may have done as a kid. 

[EmmyJay]

15 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Good dog!  I love that dog.

He was a good dog lol. He passed when I was around twelve; adopted when I was three. He was my dog more or less, since he picked me. 

[BullyJBG]

1 hour ago, EmmyJay said:

He was a good dog lol. He passed when I was around twelve; adopted when I was three. He was my dog more or less, since he picked me. 

Man I wish I'd had a dog like that! Well I did, but I was already a married adult; me and late-hubby got him together. He was protective of me. But probably if I HAD had a dog like that as a child, my parents likely would've threatened to re-home it. I remember my dad threatening to send away some stray cats one of my siblings took under their wing, saying "if a pet makes you disobey it goes away".

[EmmyJay]

1 minute ago, BullyJBG said:

Man I wish I'd had a dog like that! Well I did, but I was already a married adult; me and late-hubby got him together. He was protective of me. But probably if I HAD had a dog like that as a child, my parents likely would've threatened to re-home it. I remember my dad threatening to send away some stray cats one of my siblings took under their wing, saying "if a pet makes you disobey it goes away".

The funny thing is, I never told him to bite people. When my parents had company, they told guests that the dog was weird and if you valued your limbs then don't touch EmmyJay because the dog doesn't like it. We had a barbecue when I was around five, and a family friend tried to poke me to get me to laugh. Dog bit the crap out of him. He wasn't angry, just amazed that both my parents warning was serious and that the dog did it. The dog also bit a furniture repairman, multiple people cutting through the yard, my dad once because my parents were joking and dad didn't think the dog would bite on command (that was funny).

[kmachete14]

I 100% lost respect for my parents because of spanking. When I was in 4th-5th grade and they were still doing it I was just amused/disgusted by it. I considered them irrational, childish, and pathetic. I always wondered if I wasn't such a "late bloomer" if they would have stopped. I doubt they would have spanked a menstruating 12 year old, as opposed to me. 

Anyways, my point is it's not that I don't think I'll get mad at my kids (I'm sure I will get VERY mad), but I just think spanking is ineffective. 

I am still emotionally distant from my mother, I lied and snuck around as a teenager, and I think I have some emotional relationship baggage from being taught that you can yell, hit, and scream at someone and then one second later expect things to be normal (how it was when I was a kid being punished). It's hard in my marriage to undo that thought process. 

One time I read in American Girl that you could write a letter about your feelings and give it to your parents. I did that after being spanked and sent to my room. My mom ripped it up and said she's the adult and I am a child and that's how things work. I always remembered that moment and vowed I'd take my kids emotions seriously, and try to always explain my decisions to them. Obviously that might not work with a 4 year old, but an 8-12 year old can definitely be explained things to!!! 

[Granwych]

2 hours ago, EmmyJay said:

He was a good dog lol. He passed when I was around twelve; adopted when I was three. He was my dog more or less, since he picked me. 

I got a dog for mom when I started nursing school, figuring that the dog would be company( I was the last kid at home.).  The dog decided that she was a daddy's girl instead.  We would tease the dog and tell her we were going to "smack  daddy" and pretend to swat him.  That 10 lb little lady would charge at whichever dumb human was going to hurt her dad.   I sure do miss that dog!

[livinginthelight]

@AprilQuilt, I'm glad you are excited to read about L'Abri but you might want to warn your partner that Frank Schaeffer goes pretty hard on his parents in Crazy for God, though in the end he is fairly forgiving of his dad in particular. Anyone who has L'Abri on a pedestal might be upset reading this book. In many ways it does sound utopian and I myself would have loved to go there in its heyday. And yes, a lot of good was done there. But there were cracks behind the scenes. I wouldn't, for example, recommend gifting this book to your partner's parents if they look back on those days as idyllic.

I'm very interested in your partner's reaction if he reads it.

Edited February 2, 2020 by livinginthelight

[neuroticcat]

There was a month where I tried spanking because I had an unresponsive 3 year old. My 3 older kids we’d never spanked but nothing helped #4 and the kid would bite and scream. 

I wondered if maybe some kids really did respond better to spanking. But after a few times I knew I hated it. It wasn’t particularly effective and after I did it I could see something change in the child’s eyes. I would have had to really be a convert to carry on with spanking. Instead we carried on with reinforcing consequences consistently. It eventually got through. 

Maybe that’s why spanking defenders are so unmovable ...the stakes are too high if they’re wrong.

There’s a heartbreaking series on honeschoolersanonymous about spanking and it’s various effects...

Edited February 2, 2020 by neuroticcat

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Just to weigh in on the other side, my parents did not spank very much ( I’m in my 60s), so lots of parents did spank, but what my parents did say and scream was at times very hurtful and mean. I know these things were said out of a sense of frustration and being overwhelmed.

My mom had some terrible temper issues when I was a kid (looking back as an adult, I realize it's clear she has some serious trauma and abandonment issues from her own difficult childhood as well as frustration from being stuck in an unhappy marriage). I hated being hit and overpowered, and remember the fear of not knowing what was going to happen next when she picked me up off the floor by my shirt, but the degrading things she said are the ones that are engraved deep inside. We have a pretty good relationship now, but there are just some things you can't really ever take back. I don't think I fully understood how much some of those things she said affected me until I was in my late twenties. 

2 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

I 100% lost respect for my parents because of spanking. When I was in 4th-5th grade and they were still doing it I was just amused/disgusted by it. I considered them irrational, childish, and pathetic. 

I realized around that age that my mother was acting like a child, and resented  that I was held to a higher standard of self-control and maturity than she held herself too. I also noticed around age twelve, that even though she claimed she had such a bad temper and couldn't help herself, as soon as I was bigger than her, the physical assaults immediately stopped...

Also, as a 5'11", 150 lb, teenager full of hormones and immaturity, I somehow managed to control myself and never hit or threaten her. It definitely allowed me to disregard anything she said once I hit high school. 

[neuroticcat]

Agree 100% that verbal/emotional abuse ran way deeper than physical. 

My mom came from a severely abusive background. Her parenting was light years ahead of what she received but the verbal/emotional abuse damaged our relationship. As a kid you just have no way of comprehending a parent losing their shit unpredictably. 

[lizzybee]

I'm in the "trenches" of age three right now with my oldest (to quote Sierra) and it's so hard. A lot of times I'm not sure what to do because it seems unacceptable to do nothing, but I'm not wanting to spank either. I'll admit that I've tried it and felt so guilty after that I just have decided that's not an option going forward.

BUT he can't hit his little brother, spit in my face, slap me, steal things from his little brother like food and toys, throw things at my face and me just do nothing. That doesn't seem acceptable either. I spend a lot of energy lately just trying to control my temper because he's a baby and he's a sweet one too in spite of the above list. All I got right now are time out's and I just do them for however minutes he is old. That's all I know to do when he does something that I feel is really not cool like throwing a handful of quarters at my face because he's mad at me. He and I are going to get through this together, I know. He does make me feel a little crazy inside though, pretty regularly.

I'm not saying it's right, (I agree it isn't) but I understand why historically many parents have resorted to corporal punishment. I'm thankful to live in a time where people have spoken out and said "hey this doesn't work and causes emotional damage, so don't." I don't want to hurt my child or make him submit or become another version of himself out of fear. I want to know all of his strong-willed authentic self even if the developing of it is challenging for me as his mom. Just, you know, send some chocolate this way from time to time because lawdy mercy he pushes me hard some days. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by lizzybee

[Sweet Caroline]

I grew up with a dog that was very protective of me. My parents have told me the story many times of when I was about two. I tried to touch the electrical outlets. They would say “no” but I kept going for them. My dad swatted at my hands and our 90pound Dalmatian went after him.  They knew they could never spank me or risk the wrath of the dog. 

I knew that I would never spank my children. I am a teacher and know that there are other ways to discipline children. Every group of students react to different ways of discipline. I have to get to know them and see what works with them. 

I have two children and my husband is in law enforcement. Our boys had an understanding that bad people go to jail. No, I did not lock up my children. We would put their toys in jail, and toys could be bailed out with good behavior. It was very effective with my kiddos. They are in their twenties and were never spanked. They are hard working and respectful members of society. 

[baldricks_turnip]

I'm a teacher also, and have a 2 year old. Man, there are times where I would love to slap a kid (or my kid!) but my instincts steer me away from that. As much as the thought crosses my mind, I have a long fuse and a lot of emotional resources to persist with calm guidance, clear expectations and positive role modeling.

That said, I have heard anecdotes of times when all the positive parenting strategies were tried and the behaviour just wasn't changing and in a moment of frustration the parent used a physical consequence and that was the thing that finally put an end to the behaviour. There was an 'Am I the Asshole?' post a month or two ago about a child who was always spitting and they had tried EVERYTHING: talking about it, reading books about it, time outs, loss of privileges. One day the child (who from memory was maybe 4 or 5) spat right in the face of a stranger at the supermarket and the dad just reacted in frustration, spat in his face and asked him how he liked it. Apparently the kid was horrified and never did it again (at least not at the time of posting). I do wonder if occasionally, for some personality types, a taste of their own medicine is what finally prompts a bit of empathy.

[EmmyJay]

1 hour ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I'm a teacher also, and have a 2 year old. Man, there are times where I would love to slap a kid (or my kid!) but my instincts steer me away from that. As much as the thought crosses my mind, I have a long fuse and a lot of emotional resources to persist with calm guidance, clear expectations and positive role modeling.

That said, I have heard anecdotes of times when all the positive parenting strategies were tried and the behaviour just wasn't changing and in a moment of frustration the parent used a physical consequence and that was the thing that finally put an end to the behaviour. There was an 'Am I the Asshole?' post a month or two ago about a child who was always spitting and they had tried EVERYTHING: talking about it, reading books about it, time outs, loss of privileges. One day the child (who from memory was maybe 4 or 5) spat right in the face of a stranger at the supermarket and the dad just reacted in frustration, spat in his face and asked him how he liked it. Apparently the kid was horrified and never did it again (at least not at the time of posting). I do wonder if occasionally, for some personality types, a taste of their own medicine is what finally prompts a bit of empathy.

it can work. I was bad biter when I was two. My mom eventually figured out that I was biting because of favoritism around the other kids my aunt babysat. But my mom also had to bite me back to get the point across. 

[lizzybee]

My grandmother was my number one parent as a child and I feel like every single time she actually disciplined me, I deserved it and fully received the intended message about why what I was doing was wrong. She bit me back once, I remember it vividly. Her teeth were sharp! I didn't bite her again. 

[xenobia]

On 1/31/2020 at 7:05 PM, Dandruff said:

What happens if parents, and/or anyone else, are discovered to have hit a kid?

I'd like to think that this rule discourages abusive people from having kids.

They will be prosecuted. One example: 

https://www.thelocal.se/20101127/30466

I'm fully aware that legislation doesn't take away the whole problem, but it's an important step. 

[JenniferJuniper]

Maybe because I've never intentionally opened a Bible in my life, but I don't understand why an adult physically hurting their own child should be treated any differently than if they physically hurt a neighbor kid.  No one should be allowed to physically assault a small, disabled, or elderly person.  Because it's generally never going to be a case of self-defense.

Children are not the possessions of their parents. 

[Duggarite]

On 1/4/2020 at 1:18 AM, Melissa1977 said:

In Spain it is illegal to put the fetus before the mother (the rights of the born are upon the rights of the unborn). So even ultracatholic doctors must act to save mother's life. They may be fundies, but are not exactly willing to lost their license.

Not exactly. Abortion is legal until 14 weeks (more if the fetus has abnormalities) but harming a fetus is a criminal offense, so not exactly that the mother's life comes firstfirst,  but it is true that we do not let women die because of some doctor's beliefs.