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Coconut Flan

Dillards 82: Derick Spills the Tea

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SassyPants
1 hour ago, mpheels said:

She might be ok with older kids - I think most people have an age groups they get along with best. I love working with toddlers and 7-9 years olds, can hold my own with the years in between, and generally dislike anyone between the ages of 11 and 25.

You know what’s really weird though, in the Duggars’ original shows, Jill was always shown as being kind, patient and loving with her siblings, and friendly to those around her. Besides someone (Josh)calling her a snitch, most of her sibs described her as a pleasant. OTOH, Jessa was shown to be rather complacent and disinterested in her sibs, and her sibs corroborated such when asked about Jessa (“don’t mess with Jess”), yet she really seems to enjoy her own kids, and the motherhood role.  Jill really seems exasperated with her boys’ behaviors, as if she’s never been around kids.

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FiveAcres
17 hours ago, SassyPants said:

You know what’s really weird though, in the Duggars’ original shows, Jill was always shown as being kind, patient and loving with her siblings, and friendly to those around her. Besides someone (Josh)calling her a snitch, most of her sibs described her as a pleasant. OTOH, Jessa was shown to be rather complacent and disinterested in her sibs, and her sibs corroborated such when asked about Jessa (“don’t mess with Jess”), yet she really seems to enjoy her own kids, and the motherhood role.  Jill really seems exasperated with her boys’ behaviors, as if she’s never been around kids.

Maybe she thought parenting would be easier with offspring than siblings?

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SassyPants
17 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Maybe she thought parenting would be easier with offspring than siblings?

Jill seemed to find joy in being with her younger sibs, and seemed to be happy in the roles of sister-mom, child rearing, crafts, reading, music... Conversely, much of the time she posts things with her own boys, she seems overwhelmed. Maybe it’s the isolation that bothers her because she also had chores other than childcare in the TTH too. Maybe she’s lonely for the constant, close-to-her-own-age companionship? 

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LillyP
26 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Jill seemed to find joy in being with her younger sibs, and seemed to be happy in the roles of sister-mom, child rearing, crafts, reading, music... Conversely, much of the time she posts things with her own boys, she seems overwhelmed. Maybe it’s the isolation that bothers her because she also had chores other than childcare in the TTH too. Maybe she’s lonely for the constant, close-to-her-own-age companionship? 

I can't believe I'm going to defend Jill, but I will say as a parent it really IS different. At the big house she had sisters to help, and kids were often shuttled to varies other siblings for different activities throughout the day. Not saying she didn't have her siblings a ton and it wasn't loud and busy, but being with your own kids 24/7 is mentally exhausting. Add to that the isolation of not working, your kids don't go to school,  your husband is often unavailable, and you're essentially estranged from your family.

I have a husband who travels internationally for work and is often gone long stretches (like right now I'm on day 26 solo) and even though my toddler goes to a mom's morning out two mornings a week from 9-12, it's still mentally draining. I'm also self employed and work from home, so I'm often snagging in snippets of work time when he's up as well as during nap and after bedtime. My parents work regular jobs so they're not really available to help if I just need to go to the store in peace. Thank god for my sister who is available to help some, and friends. 

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Grace

Jill just shared another accounts post in her stories that used a quote that seemed very gentle parenting and anti-spanking 😱

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nausicaa
18 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Jessa was shown to be rather complacent and disinterested in her sibs, and her sibs corroborated such when asked about Jessa (“don’t mess with Jess”), yet she really seems to enjoy her own kids, and the motherhood role.  Jill really seems exasperated with her boys’ behaviors, as if she’s never been around kids.

With my friends, it's strange that sometimes the ones who didn't seem maternal or nurturing before kids really blossomed at motherhood, and the ones who always knew they wanted kids and had all these plans seemed to struggle. I wonder if the lack of expectations helps?

I didn't watch the show enough to say, but I also wonder if Jill liked to do "girlier" stuff with kids like dressing up, tea parties, and crafts, and is a bit at sea/disappointed with two rowdy boys who maybe don't enjoy those things? This is definitely the case with my SIL. 

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clueliss

I seem to recall that Jill's buddy group was Joy, James, & Jennifer.  So the theory about girly stuff could be correct.

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FleeJanaFree
17 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

There's a lot of cherry picking going on when it comes to Jill. Often enough she posts about happy moments with the boys whether they are reading books or having fun outside or at a playdate but they seem to go unnoticed. Parenting can be so fun and still it sometimes really sucks. Two rowdy boys can be a lot and grate on your last nerves no matter how much you love them. Some people are naturally outgoing, quite the active outdoorsy type and go on to have kids that are real homebodies. With Jill it's the other way around and it needs time and adjustment for all of them. I think at least Jill is trying? We don't see her forcing tea parties or hours of quiet play on the boys. From all we can see, if only from her instagram, it seems like she's really trying to offer the boys a wide variety of activities and occupations and it seems she does that even if it exhausts or overwhelms her.  Just because the other Duggar kids don't post about the less glamorous moments doesn't mean Anna or Jessa don't have them or that their interests always click with each of their kids'. 

Jill gets judged quite heavily even though she so far seems to be the only one actually questioning her upbringing. It's a process and needs time and not everyone is always a 100% amazing parent. All of that being said, I often end up defending Jill and the next day she does something completely nonsensical. So I'll hold my breath for 3...2...1..until....

I agree with this. Granted, I don't watch Jill too closely, but she doesn't seem very overwhelmed these days. And I know a lot of people on here are prone to say things like "just because she wears pants she still has the same ugly beliefs"etc. I see what their point, but at the same time....I do see effort. I see small changes in her beliefs and attitude and that is heartening. I don't expect her to do a 180 just because she wears pants now. But I can see her examining her parent's beliefs rather than just parroting them. Frankly, Jill is the only Duggar I see just making an effort. She's the one I have the most realistic hope for. Literally just her meeting a gay person could have a positive effect on her. I think she responds well to meeting new people and hearing their perspectives.

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HerNameIsBuffy

I see her as clueless on safety things at times, but what are people seeing that says overwhelmed?  Is it the mess?

i think I’m missing something.

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WarriorJane
11 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

I caught on to that as well. The quote Jill linked to was quite anti-spanking, anti shoving kids away, basically anti-Duggar-parenting style. Jill reposted it with a note that it was an important message for all parents or something. My guess is that there's currently a whole lot of introspection happening on Jill's part. I hope it at least benefits those boys.

There's a lot of cherry picking going on when it comes to Jill. Often enough she posts about happy moments with the boys whether they are reading books or having fun outside or at a playdate but they seem to go unnoticed. Parenting can be so fun and still it sometimes really sucks. Two rowdy boys can be a lot and grate on your last nerves no matter how much you love them. Some people are naturally outgoing, quite the active outdoorsy type and go on to have kids that are real homebodies. With Jill it's the other way around and it needs time and adjustment for all of them. I think at least Jill is trying? We don't see her forcing tea parties or hours of quiet play on the boys. From all we can see, if only from her instagram, it seems like she's really trying to offer the boys a wide variety of activities and occupations and it seems she does that even if it exhausts or overwhelms her.  Just because the other Duggar kids don't post about the less glamorous moments doesn't mean Anna or Jessa don't have them or that their interests always click with each of their kids'. 

Jill gets judged quite heavily even though she so far seems to be the only one actually questioning her upbringing. It's a process and needs time and not everyone is always a 100% amazing parent. All of that being said, I often end up defending Jill and the next day she does something completely nonsensical. So I'll hold my breath for 3...2...1..until....

I agree.  I'm no defender of Jill, but I have to respectfully disagree with this idea a lot of people seem to have that she is stressed out, overwhelmed,  headed for a meltdown,  etc.  Raising kids is hard work and it's neverending.   You're going to have stressful days just like you do at a job.  A shit day at work doesn't mean you're headed for a meltdown.  Why should this be any different?  Jill actually seems quite well suited for motherhood IMO.   If she wants a job , I hope she realizes she has that option.   I completely support anyone's decisions.  But i think for Jill, the answer to being "overwhelmed" is not necessarily to add the stress of working a job, paying  for daycare,  scheduling the kids to the mix.  And as a side note, we really don't need to perpetuate the notion that women work to amuse themselves  or because they're looking to get out of the house.

I think Jill will eventually put the kids in school and then explore her options and, while I despise Derick, I think he will support her in having goals of her own.  Jill is wrestling with finding herself and her place in the world,  as well with reconciling her past,  but being a mom--nah, she's doing just fine.  

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SilverBeach
1 hour ago, WarriorJane said:

And as a side note, we really don't need to perpetuate the notion that women work to amuse themselves  or because they're looking to get out of the house.

But it's perfectly fine if some do. Anybody should be free to work outside the home for whatever reason they choose to. 

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FloraDoraDolly
6 hours ago, Grace said:

Jill just shared another accounts post in her stories that used a quote that seemed very gentle parenting and anti-spanking 😱

If Jill is anti-spanking, that IS a major departure from her parents' belief system.

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Pecansforeveryone

If, if, if Jill is becoming anti-spanking that is a very big departure from her parents beliefs. I know plenty of conservative Christian and even non-religious "old school" types who believe in "spare the rod and spoil the child." 

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Giraffe
7 hours ago, LillyP said:

I can't believe I'm going to defend Jill, but I will say as a parent it really IS different. At the big house she had sisters to help, and kids were often shuttled to varies other siblings for different activities throughout the day.

I think this part is a huge deal. The sister-moms had way too much responsibility placed upon them, but they didn’t have 100% responsibility of all the housekeeping and all childcare all the time. I imagine it would be quite a shock to go from quite literally raising your own siblings (while having others who can help shoulder the load) to suddenly being the only parent and only housekeeper. 

Edited by Giraffe
Adding words

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JillyO

Just thought I'd share the post that Jill shared on her stories with the comment "😭So good! Attn all parents!!"

I agree that it seems like a pretty big departure from Jill's upbringing. Anybody have any insights on this Edith Schaeffer person the quote is from?

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lizzybee

Serious question as a mom of two toddler boys: Is there a mom of toddlers who isn't stressed and exasperated with her children at least some of the time? Mine drive me nuts and challenge me daily but I'm not about to fall apart or anything. Mine also get into everything they possibly can find that I might not like. ex: They were throwing dirt at each other yesterday out of my potted plant that sets on the kitchen table. I still love them more than life even if they do make me crazy.

If anything I think Jill is better at this mom thing than I feel like I am lately. It doesn't just seem like she's doing more to entertain them and get them out of the house, because I know how little I'm managing to do that and it's got to be more if she has something to post on IG (I don't). I need to make an effort to find some SAHM friends, do more play dates, and have more creative activities with my kids. I've gotten into a rut where I'm allowing too much screentime. Jill is the least snarkable Duggar right now, in my opinion. She seems to be doing the best she can navigating her new normal and she seems like a pretty good mom to me. 100 points to Hufflepuff if she's also reconsidering her family's position on corporal punishment. 

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WarriorJane
45 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

But it's perfectly fine if some do. Anybody should be free to work outside the home for whatever reason they choose to. 

Absolutely agree.   Nor should anyone have to justify their choices or explain their reasons.   But I imagine Jill has a lot of competing voices in her ear right now. 

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lizzybee
5 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Just thought I'd share the post that Jill shared on her stories with the comment "😭So good! Attn all parents!!"

I agree that it seems like a pretty big departure from Jill's upbringing. Anybody have any insights on this Edith Schaeffer person the quote is from?

I can't help but wonder if she sees herself in this quotation as the child as well as the mother. Can she relate because of instances in her own childhood and does it make her all the more convicted to give her boys something better? I'm sorry if she did have to read this with the pain of an inner child, but absolutely gives me hope that it did resonate with her enough that she needed to share it. 

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PennySycamore

@JillyO, Edith Schaeffer was a Christian writer and wife of Francis Schaeffer.  They were Presbyterians and founded L'Abri retreat in Switzerland.  Some consider Edith to be one of the major influences on the idea of "biblical womanhood".   There are some connections between RJ Rushdoony and Francis Schaeffer although Schaeffer did reject the application of Old Testament law to modern society.  In other words, we're not gonna stone gays.  He did not believe in or want a theocracy in America.  

Edith and Francis did have a son Frank, who is quite the interesting character.  Frank wrote a book Fake Pearls Before Real Swine about how contemporary Christian art and music suck.    He went on to convert to Eastern Orthdoxy and now describes himself as a Christian atheist.

Edith Schaeffer

Francis Schaeffer

Frank Schaeffer

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nausicaa
19 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

I can't help but wonder if she sees herself in this quotation as the child as well as the mother. Can she relate because of instances in her own childhood and does it make her all the more convicted to give her boys something better?

I was wondering that as well. I think Jill is very sensitive and also needs a lot of attention and affirmation, and was probably more affected by being one of a litter of kids more than some of her siblings were, as well as hurt by some of her parents' training methods. 

Actually, the most surprising part of that post was the "anti-training" aspect of it. I think that's an even bigger departure in mindset than the spanking, but all are really promising signs. 

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livinginthelight

Frank Schaeffer also wrote a fascinating book, "Crazy for God", in which he talks about growing up at L'Abri in Switzerland and describes participating in  the founding of the religious right as a means of mobilizing Christian political power through the harnessing of fear and anger. Frank initially went along with it, then eventually broke away and wrote about his tranformation away from fundamentalism.

The whole anti-gay and anti-abortion fundie platforms? These were specifically chosen by those in power as issues which would best mobilize the base. Frank tells all about it. He rubbed shoulders with big names in the Christian Right and has some very insightful commentary.

Edited by livinginthelight

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Melissa1977

On the topic of great sistermoms being overwhelmed as moms: I have several friends whose mothers were teachers. All of them were nice teachers, but with her kids were either too strict or un-attached moms. Not saying all teachers are like that!!! But YOUR kids are one thing and OTHER people's kids are another. And James, Joy and Jennifer were not Jill's. The emotional bond is different, expectations, involvement etc. 

 

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Glasgowghirl

If Jill is anti spanking now then good on her, only in the last year or two Derick, Dan and their mother were mocking the anti spanking movement by wearing t shirts saying wooden spoon survivor. 

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