Bontragers and Bowers 4: Dumbass Love for the Romantic Lost Cause

[HereticHick]

7 hours ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

"Does he cherish you enough to fight for your purity and character?"

WTF does that mean?? How does someone fight for your purity? By burning porn magazines at a kiosk? By throwing tv out of window when a tiny bit of naked skin is shown? 

Beating up any guy who dares to look at you?

[sableduck]

Mrs. Bontrager’s father died today.  He’s been sick, but they haven’t mentioned it on their blog. He was a kind and lovely man who worked hard and lived well. Basically the opposite of Steve Maxwell. 

I honestly hope they’re able to stop posting about dating siblings long enough to pay him tribute, especially if they don’t attend the funeral.

[ophelia]

Chelsy made a long post about her grandpa on her blog. I have to admit that it brought me to tears. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, ophelia said:

Chelsy made a long post about her grandpa on her blog. I have to admit that it brought me to tears. 

I read your warning and I still couldn’t finish. I was crying and I’m also sick with bronchitis so I had to stop unless I wanted another coughing fit. The part I read is a beautiful tribute. 

[Jana814]

4 hours ago, ophelia said:

Chelsy made a long post about her grandpa on her blog. I have to admit that it brought me to tears. 

I read the tribute. It was very sweet! 

[sableduck]

Chelsy’s grandfather was a local mailman for many many years, and my FB feed is filled today with remembrances of him and links to his obituary. Though a deeply religious Mennonite, he never proselytized. According to people who know him much better than I did, he loved and enjoyed everyone regardless of their beliefs or lifestyle. Several of his grandchildren that I do know are not conservative Christians, yet they all felt very loved and accepted by their grandparents.  They and their partners were always welcomed at the table for plenty of good food and board games.  Again I’m going off my FB feed, but he seems the opposite of Steve Maxwell.

I honestly can’t help but wonder at the difference between Chelsy’s family of origin and the Maxwells.  I know she didn’t grow up here, around her grandparents, but I think it would have been better for her.

https://bairdfuneralhomedundee.com/tribute/details/516/Elmer-Stoltzfus/obituary.html

Edited October 2, 2019 by sableduck

[fundiefollower]

16 hours ago, sableduck said:

Mrs. Bontrager’s father died today.  He’s been sick, but they haven’t mentioned it on their blog. He was a kind and lovely man who worked hard and lived well. Basically the opposite of Steve Maxwell. 

I honestly hope they’re able to stop posting about dating siblings long enough to pay him tribute, especially if they don’t attend the funeral.

Chelsy's tribute to her Grandpa seems to indicate that her mom was in NY with him when he passed.  Hopefully most of the family is able to attend the funeral.  Chelsy really did write a beautiful tribute to him.

[petrushka]

2 hours ago, sableduck said:

Chelsy’s grandfather was a local mailman for many many years, and my FB feed is filled today with remembrances of him and links to his obituary. Though a deeply religious Mennonite, he never proselytized. According to people who know him much better than I did, he loved and enjoyed everyone regardless of their beliefs or lifestyle. Several of his grandchildren that I do know are not conservative Christians, yet they all felt very loved and accepted by their grandparents.  They and their partners were always welcomed at the table for plenty of good food and board games.  Again I’m going off my FB feed, but he seems the opposite of Steve Maxwell.

I honestly can’t help but wonder at the difference between Chelsy’s family of origin and the Maxwells.  I know she didn’t grow up here, around her grandparents, but I think it would have been better for her.

https://bairdfuneralhomedundee.com/tribute/details/516/Elmer-Stoltzfus/obituary.html

What a beautiful tribute from Chelsy!  I've always wondered if she had any misgivings about marriage to John based on her in-laws.  Of course, young people in love don't always see things objectively, but Chelsy seems somewhat intelligent and even thoughtful at times.  You can't miss the clear differences between these two men.  

I agree Chelsy might have been better off closer to the Stoltzfus relatives.  I would love to know what the rest of the clan really thinks of Marlin and Becky's evangelical dog and pony show.

[sableduck]

28 minutes ago, petrushka said:

What a beautiful tribute from Chelsy!  I've always wondered if she had any misgivings about marriage to John based on her in-laws.  Of course, young people in love don't always see things objectively, but Chelsy seems somewhat intelligent and even thoughtful at times.  You can't miss the clear differences between these two men.  

I agree Chelsy might have been better off closer to the Stoltzfus relatives.  I would love to know what the rest of the clan really thinks of Marlin and Becky's evangelical dog and pony show.

I know two of the aunts personally.  The only reason I ever made the connection is because Chelsy came to visit, a cousin I’m friends with posted it on FB and I recognized her name from here(Becky Bontrager is not an uncommon name in the Amish/Mennonite world).  I’ve never once heard them mention Becky’s singing ministry or even the Bible Bee.  But these two sisters and their families are honestly some of the most genuine, kind, humble and welcoming people you’d ever meet. They don’t necessarily brag or likely care about their sister’s fundie connections. Not all of their children stayed Mennonite or even Christian, but they and their husbands radiate their personal beliefs that when Jesus said to love others He meant everyone, not just people who share your lifestyle and beliefs. The grandparents, from the few times I’ve met them, were the same way.

It just shocks me that Chelsy married a Maxwell, but Marlin also seems more full of hubris and legalism.  I think she’d have been better off raised near her maternal family’s influence.

Edited October 2, 2019 by sableduck

[Jana814]

Doe anyone know what number in the line up of siblings their mother is. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Doe anyone know what number in the line up of siblings their mother is. 

I have no idea. But I do know both Becky and Marlin came from very large families. 

[Jana814]

20 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have no idea. But I do know both Becky and Marlin came from very large families. 

Do you know how many siblings Marlin has?  

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Do you know how many siblings Marlin has?  

I’m not sure. But I believe Becky and Marlin both have around 8-10 siblings each. Similar to their own family size of 10 kids. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

so sad for the family at this time I know how hard it is to lose a Grandfather that was much loved 

[ophelia]

16 hours ago, sableduck said:

Chelsy’s grandfather was a local mailman for many many years, and my FB feed is filled today with remembrances of him and links to his obituary. Though a deeply religious Mennonite, he never proselytized. According to people who know him much better than I did, he loved and enjoyed everyone regardless of their beliefs or lifestyle. Several of his grandchildren that I do know are not conservative Christians, yet they all felt very loved and accepted by their grandparents.  They and their partners were always welcomed at the table for plenty of good food and board games.  Again I’m going off my FB feed, but he seems the opposite of Steve Maxwell.

He really sounds like a lovely person. I have a deep admiration for people that are deeply religious and yet welcoming and opening and most of all not condescending of other one's beliefs (or the lack of it). 

12 hours ago, petrushka said:

I agree Chelsy might have been better off closer to the Stoltzfus relatives.  I would love to know what the rest of the clan really thinks of Marlin and Becky's evangelical dog and pony show.

I read through Chelsy's whole blog a few months ago and I'm currently working my way through the Bontrager blog and whenever she or the family blog had a post up about family reunions and things like this, I was a bit jealous, because I come from such a small family and always wished to be part of a big group of siblings, cousins, and so on. The Stoltzfus family always appeared to be a fun-loving and nice bunch of people, but I can still imagine some eye rolling when it comes to Marlin and Becky and their singing ministry and their kids attending the Bible Bee and Joshua's blog that just shows how full of himself he is. Isn't that behavior absolutely contradicting to a Mennonite lifestyle?

[sableduck]

Mennonite is kind of a broad term—you can have Mennonite groups that are basically indistinguishable from Amish to Mennonite churches where Jill Rodrigues wouldn’t be completely out of place.  The Mennonite church I am most familiar with is the one Chelsy’s grandfather attended.  They tend to be more conservative—the women wear dresses and head coverings, they preach simple, humble lives and live a fairly agrarian lifestyle(though many of the men and some of the women have outside jobs—Mr. Stolzfus was a mail carrier). Calling attention to yourself won’t get you kicked out of the church, but it is frowned upon. The few times I have attended as a guest, I don’t believe musical instruments were used in church(though many play at home).  I know they do have musical groups play or sing sometimes, but overall that kind of attention isn’t sought. The same with the Bible Bee or even blogging—it’s calling attention to the individual, instead of quietly focusing on serving God through loving others.  Again this is only one Mennonite church and Mennonite is a wide brush.

[Syriana]

Chelsy's tribute was beautifully written, it's clear she loved her grandfather very much.

The family haven't put anything on their blog yet (asking Chelsy if they could put her post on their blog wouldn't be a bad idea, it says it all really), but there is a post on their Instagram.

[mango_fandango]

I also think that tribute was lovely.

I googled Mennonites out of interest. Some do seem to be the plain dress, head covering type (so, similar to Amish), and some appear to wear modern clothes. Kinda interesting how there’s so much variation!

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, sableduck said:

Mennonite is kind of a broad term—you can have Mennonite groups that are basically indistinguishable from Amish to Mennonite churches where Jill Rodrigues wouldn’t be completely out of place.  The Mennonite church I am most familiar with is the one Chelsy’s grandfather attended.  They tend to be more conservative—the women wear dresses and head coverings, they preach simple, humble lives and live a fairly agrarian lifestyle(though many of the men and some of the women have outside jobs—Mr. Stolzfus was a mail carrier). Calling attention to yourself won’t get you kicked out of the church, but it is frowned upon. The few times I have attended as a guest, I don’t believe musical instruments were used in church(though many play at home).  I know they do have musical groups play or sing sometimes, but overall that kind of attention isn’t sought. The same with the Bible Bee or even blogging—it’s calling attention to the individual, instead of quietly focusing on serving God through loving others.  Again this is only one Mennonite church and Mennonite is a wide brush.

I always assumed the Stoltzfus grandparents were more conservative mennonites just based on their clothing. Which also made me imagine they were horrified when watching Chelsy’s wedding and their son in law mentioned Steve’s vasectomy in front of everyone. I still can’t believe he did that.

Edited October 3, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[sableduck]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I always assumed the Stoltzfus grandparents were more conservative mennonites just based on their clothing. Which also made me imagine they were horrified when watching Chelsy’s wedding and their son in law mentioned Steve’s vasectomy in front of everyone. I still can’t believe he did that.

What would a wedding be if Steve’s penis wasn’t mentioned?

I am quite sure they were horrified.  My grandmother wasn’t Mennonite, she was a prim and proper Baptist and she’d likely have died if that was brought up at a wedding.0

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

3 hours ago, sableduck said:

Mennonite is kind of a broad term—you can have Mennonite groups that are basically indistinguishable from Amish to Mennonite churches where Jill Rodrigues wouldn’t be completely out of place. 

Not to mention what we here in southern Ontario call "city Mennonites" - go to church, wear normal clothes, fairly liberal over all. Lots of focus on international relief work and work with refugees; many Mennonites came to North America as refugees and they don't forget!

Edited to add: The biggest doctrinal difference I've noticed with Mennonites and other Protestants around here is strict pacifism.

Edited October 3, 2019 by PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea
forgot a point

[DefraudedByPlaid]

2 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Lots of focus on international relief work and work with refugees; many Mennonites came to North America as refugees and they don't forget!

I once read somewhere (maybe from an FJ poster?) that in natural disasters the Mennonites are the first to arrive and the last to leave. During my time in PA I met many people from Anabaptist traditions and that statement certainly applies. Their relief work is not about mission-cations, it's about working WITH the people you are there to serve, and they do indeed mean "serve".

[HereticHick]

23 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Not to mention what we here in southern Ontario call "city Mennonites" - go to church, wear normal clothes, fairly liberal over all. Lots of focus on international relief work and work with refugees; many Mennonites came to North America as refugees and they don't forget!

Where I live we just call them "car driving Mennonites." : )  

And yes, Mennonites really walk the talk when it comes to charity work. They serve, instead of just passing out tracts or picketing abortion clinics.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Mennonite is pretty broad but in the US, most mennonites I’ve come across are more conservative like Chelsy’s grandparents. And I do consider them a type of fundie. They have a lot of similar ideas regarding patriarchy. However one thing I appreciate about them is that they don’t go soul winning or trying to push their beliefs on random people. 

[usedbicycle]

On 10/2/2019 at 4:56 PM, Jana814 said:

Doe anyone know what number in the line up of siblings their mother is. 

From the obituary, the grandparents had 2 sons and 7 daughters. Becky is the sixth daughter, but not sure of overall rank since it depends when the boys were born. 

The Bontrager kids must have LOTS of first cousins.