Carlin & Evan 5 - Carlin Is Still Engaged?

[nastyhobbitses]

11 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

However, I think that the Bateses are more interested in "restoring" the government to an imaginary Christian state that they believe was lost due to left-wing "corruption." The way that the older sons drool over law enforcement and everyone is very proud about voting in elections suggests that they believe in government as long as it's the way they like it: chauvinist, Dominionist, and upholding what they consider the natural hierarchies of race, gender, and religion.

There's a reason I call fundies of their ilk Miracle Whip Taliban -- they LIKE government, specifically a legalistic, theocratic government run only by them and only for them. I also think that they idolize law enforcement and the military because of our country's tendency to deify law enforcement and the military, and lord knows these jobless, uneducated man-children need to feel like Big Boys who merit the amount of ego-stroking they demand. 

[Illmarryyoujana]

3 hours ago, 19tacos&counting said:

Another part wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled a jinger and Jeremy. They both seem super  self absorbed and might want to focus on me me me  ( or us us us) for a least 6-9 months. Carlin surely knows babies are a lot of work from her sisters current little ones, plus being a sister mom all those years. I could see her being super dramatic and gagging over poop diapers. 

Isn’t focusing on themselves as a couple, for a few months at least, healthy and not self absorbed? I’m not sure how waiting to have kids got turned into negative personality traits. 

[Hisey]

30 minutes ago, Illmarryyoujana said:

Isn’t focusing on themselves as a couple, for a few months at least, healthy and not self absorbed? I’m not sure how waiting to have kids got turned into negative personality traits. 

In a normal culture, yes, people would view it as healthy. However, in fundie circles, it would not be seen as healthy.

I think OP is saying it only a self-absorbed couple would have such a strong need for time to focus on themselves that it would overcome the lessons they'd learned from childhood.

Erin, Tori, Zach. . . they might feel this need in the back of their mind, but they learned to suppress it long ago.

Which is kind of funny, isn't it? It takes a couple that we view as immature and narcissistic to (possibly) overcome an unhealthy fundie mandate.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Hisey

[HerNameIsBuffy]

56 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Anti-government sentiment is indeed huge among fundies - orgs like the HSLDA have actively cultivated a paranoia about the state busting in and forcing you to stop hitting your kids/send your kids to heathen public school/give up your kids. (If you have time, google "sovereign citizen" for some WTF.)

Agreed.  Non-fundies as well - i mean the Naugler's are the poster family for this movement and nothing fundy about them.

[Illmarryyoujana]

17 minutes ago, Hisey said:

In a normal culture, yes, people would view it as healthy. However, in fundie circles, it would not be seen as healthy.

I think OP is saying it only a self-absorbed couple would have such a strong need for time to focus on themselves that it would overcome the lessons they'd learned from childhood.

I totally get what you’re saying, but I still disagree that it’s self absorbed to do things differently than how you were raised. Their family might see it that way, but that’s not how the comment read to me. They also learned not to wear pants because they’re girls, yet that’s the first thing almost all of them do after the wedding. We should be celebrating anyone who waits, not putting them down for it. Most parents are grossed out by baby blowouts. That’s just normal. And I’m definitely not saying waiting is a sign that they’re less of a fundamentalist couple. I’m just noting that we should recognize the healthiness of possibly waiting vs having a honeymoon baby. 

[Mrs.Right]

Anyone know what song they danced to? A Lawson curated one? 

[just_ordinary]

3 hours ago, JillyO said:

For those of you who don't often venture outside of the Duggar and Bates forums, I thought I'd give an example of a fundie family that looks more modern and completely un-frumpy, and yet they are still fundie as all get-out. May I present to you: Abbie Halberstadt, aka M is for Mama, aka misinformed mama, aka Braggie Abbie. Here is her Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/m.is.for.mama/ and her blog: www.misisformama.net.

Things that make Abbie look modern/"normal"/non-fundie at first glance:

• She wears pants, including ripped jeans and shorts, sleeveless tops and dresses, and even defrauding work-out clothes.
• She teaches work-out classes at a local gym.
• She went to a secular university and worked as a teacher for a few years, even after she had the first few kids.
• She lets her kids participate in outside activities such as homeschool co-op, ballet classes (for the girls), and 4-H.

Now all of that may make you think "she sounds like a normal mom," and I'm pretty sure if a Duggar or Bates did any of those things, there would be pages upon pages written about how they are leaving fundamentalism (we're already seen it multiple times with the clothes discussion). But here is the reality:

• Abbie has way more kids than she wanted or can reasonably parent (she talks pretty openly about never wanting to be a mother), but continues to pop them out because Jesus.
• She relies heavily on her two eldest kids, the oldest one (who just turned 13) in particular, to the point where she constantly calls him "third parent". For example, they are responsible for babysitting dozens of babies and young children when their mothers are at Abbie's house for her in-home exercise class.
• She is really into child training and corporal punishment. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and all of that. She also likes to spray "fuss juice" (some nasty vinegar and hot sauce concoction iirc) into her young childrens' mouths when they don't stop crying on command.
• Even though both she and her husband went to college and he makes good money because of his degree, they don't see the need for their kids to go and thus refuse to support them in this endeavor.

Just thought I'd give an idea of what some of the other fundies we follow on this site look like, which can be very very different from the frumper-days Duggars and Bateses. Yet the sad truth is that, at their core, they all have one thing in common: They want to force their religious views on all of us and take away our right to decide how we want to live our lives.

If you want to join us in discussing Abbie, the current thread is here:

 

 

While I don’t doubt what you say- for people unfamiliar with her (like me) it would have been nice to say what makes her fundie because the things you listed are not what makes a Fundie. She sounds like a massive asshole but not necessarily very religious. Hope you get my point - I obviously don’t expect you to do it now but maybe next time? It would help to clarify your point. 

I feel like the jeans discussion is kind of a moot point. Everyone should have realised that this might be a big step out of their parents beliefs but still perfectly acceptable in the rest of Fundiedom.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

There's a reason I call fundies of their ilk Miracle Whip Taliban -- they LIKE government, specifically a legalistic, theocratic government run only by them and only for them. I also think that they idolize law enforcement and the military because of our country's tendency to deify law enforcement and the military, and lord knows these jobless, uneducated man-children need to feel like Big Boys who merit the amount of ego-stroking they demand. 

I used to belong to another forum and there was a poster who was an Evangelical Christian and hard core antigovernment who did not have health insurance. So one time I asked her if something  bad happened to her, what was her contingent plan. Her immediate answer was the government...What? This lady did pass away from a sudden heart attack-

[19tacos&counting]

1 hour ago, Illmarryyoujana said:

Isn’t focusing on themselves as a couple, for a few months at least, healthy and not self absorbed? I’m not sure how waiting to have kids got turned into negative personality traits. 

I meant it as they might not want to share the spot light with a baby yet. They have been taught to be open to babies babies babies immediately and that’s a blessing from God. Someone like Tori, or Erin, or Michaela will just respectfully go along with that. 

 

Carlin and Evans personality might want more time to shine as newlyweds. It’s not a bad thing. Obviously the more time they are able to grow as “adults” and as a couple, the better!  I am just saying I could see someone with Carlin’s personality wanting more “me time” before kids than someone like Erin. 

[nastyhobbitses]

35 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I feel like the jeans discussion is kind of a moot point. Everyone should have realised that this might be a big step out of their parents beliefs but still perfectly acceptable in the rest of Fundiedom.

I'm half happy that Alyssa/Josie/Carlin/Jinger/Jill are traipsing about in jeans after two decades of their parents (and them and their siblings) harping on how skirts are so much more modest and pure and good, and half tired of people thinking that pants will suddenly equal a complete 180 on their regressive and puritanical views they've been raised with since birth and see no reason/incentive to stop holding. It's denim lipstick on a pig. 

Also, we snarked on Jill/Jessa booking it down the aisle for their recessionals because it was time to get their respective freaks on, but I like to imagine that the Bates girls book it down the aisle because there's a skinny jeans sale at Ross. 

[formergothardite]

37 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Everyone should have realised that this might be a big step out of their parents beliefs

But is it a huge step? It isn't like wearing pants was something Gil and Kelly viewed as a major sin. They presented it as being their standards but  Kelly defended Alyssa when people made comments about her wearing pants.. They clearly thought it was perfectly fine for Alyssa to marry into a IBLP who didn't share their beliefs on clothing. I think that if it was still a big deal to them they would not have approved marriages where they knew their daughters would put on pants first thing. 

 

[FaithAndReason]

14 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

It is totally bizarre to me that anyone extrapolates from Instagram and a TV show that any of these people are leaving the cult in which they were reared. The cult their father now leads. Alyssa especially married deep into IBLP with the Websters - deep. The men they marry are cult-and-daddy approved.

 I am always flummoxed by these speculations, which have zero basis in reality. Not a single Bates has moved away from the cult. Not a single Duggar has been "freed". They are all marrying young to like minded people, have little quality education and have all started pumping out more cult members. 

Exactly. If you look at a family like the Keller’s, for example, I think we see some kids leaving because they realized they couldn’t make a living and that “God wasn’t providing” as the cult claims. But Anna and Pris have no need to leave the cult bc they have married fundie royalty. Their set up is pretty decent compared to others. No need to think or analyze anything when life is giving you what you need. None of the Duggars or Bates need contemplate leaving/changing because the money is still rolling in and life is, frankly, improved over the years that they’ve been fundie so from their perspective “God is providing/rewarding” them for their beliefs. 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 minute ago, FaithAndReason said:

Exactly. If you look at a family like the Keller’s, for example, I think we see some kids leaving because they realized they couldn’t make a living and that “God wasn’t providing” as the cult claims. But Anna and Pris have no need to leave the cult bc they have married fundie royalty. Their set up is pretty decent compared to others. No need to think or analyze anything when life is giving you what you need. None of the Duggars or Bates need contemplate leaving/changing because the money is still rolling in and life is, frankly, improved over the years that they’ve been fundie so from their perspective “God is providing/rewarding” them for their beliefs. 

This is really good and really a sharp analytical point. I believe one of the Keller daughters got pregnant and left, correct? Not only did the Keller girls face basic poverty, she also slipped up and broke the rules. Those kind of factors make it easy to become analytical.

[Illmarryyoujana]

21 minutes ago, 19tacos&counting said:

I meant it as they might not want to share the spot light with a baby yet. They have been taught to be open to babies babies babies immediately and that’s a blessing from God. Someone like Tori, or Erin, or Michaela will just respectfully go along with that. 

 

Carlin and Evans personality might want more time to shine as newlyweds. It’s not a bad thing. Obviously the more time they are able to grow as “adults” and as a couple, the better!  I am just saying I could see someone with Carlin’s personality wanting more “me time” before kids than someone like Erin. 

And I totally get that. But I found calling them self absorbed for wanting time as a couple to be bizarre. I don’t think of wanting alone time as couple, despite how they were raised, as a bad thing. I get that this site is for snarking, but I don’t think waiting a short time to conceive is really snark worthy. She’s never had time on her own in her whole life with out dozens of people around in her entire life. The comment made it sound like a bad thing to have “me time”. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Illmarryyoujana
Missing word.

[SassyPants]

Time for a title change. No longer engaged, Mrs Stewart is sporting denim lipstick!

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

4 hours ago, JillyO said:

 Yet the sad truth is that, at their core, they all have one thing in common: They want to force their religious views on all of us and take away our right to decide how we want to live our lives. 

 

 

 

The other thing Abbie has in common with the Duggars and Bates is "leaving her family size up to God" (hence more children than she can handle.) She doesn't exactly say she's raising a quiverfull of arrows for God but it's heavily implied.

I believe she also saved her first kiss for her wedding (ugh). So yeah, some of the same patriarchal nonsense.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Time for a title change. No longer engaged, Mrs Stewart is sporting denim lipstick!

Real talk I could totally see Carlin rocking dark blue lipstick in some alternate timeline. 

[Lurky]

4 hours ago, Illmarryyoujana said:

Isn’t focusing on themselves as a couple, for a few months at least, healthy and not self absorbed? I’m not sure how waiting to have kids got turned into negative personality traits. 

It's like how Marjorie Jackson gets criticised for (apparently) ending her courtship because at 17 years old she realised she wanted a different life than quiverfull teeanged parenthood to someone whose job and living situation depends on his parents* - or 17 year old Sarah Fairchild being criticised for (unconformed rumours that she's) ending her engagement with Solomon Anderson because their parents fell out. 

I legitimately don't understand what the Fundies can do to keep some FJers happy.  I especially don't understand why it's so different for different couples - Marjorie gets described as fame-hungry, dropping Josiah when the tv stopped, even though she didn't do anything that made it seem she wanted fame, after the courtship ended, but got a job in chik-fil-a and went to university.

I legit thought that as much as there's a FJ hivemind, we all wanted the very young fundy couples to have some time to get to know each other before having kids, especially seeing as they've only ever been together chaperoned....  It seems Carlin has had a really tough life, feeling so unworthy and terrible, per Gil's bragging about her, and then being kept at home to raise her siblings, and being made to wait for marriage while her younger sister could rush into it.  I really hope she gets time with her new husband to have some fun, and freedom, and learn more about herself, before she starts her own quiver.

[mango_fandango]

I’ve seen it said before on this site that the division between fundie, fundie lite and conservative Christian is quite blurry at times. Some families, eg the Maxwells, I would class as definitely fundie. Other families are a little harder to classify. Some, eg the Shupes, have undergone lifestyle changes (they used to be skirt-wearing, devout homeschoolers, now the girls wear pants/jeans and the youngest kids go to public school). I don’t think the Shupe beliefs have changed. So they’re likely conservative Christian now, or maybe fundie lite. Who knows? 

[CaptainFunderpants]

11 minutes ago, Lurky said:

It's like how Marjorie Jackson gets criticised for (apparently) ending her courtship because at 17 years old she realised she wanted a different life than quiverfull teeanged parenthood to someone whose job and living situation depends on his parents* - or 17 year old Sarah Fairchild being criticised for (unconformed rumours that she's) ending her engagement with Solomon Anderson because their parents fell out. 

I legitimately don't understand what the Fundies can do to keep some FJers happy.  I especially don't understand why it's so different for different couples - Marjorie gets described as fame-hungry, dropping Josiah when the tv stopped, even though she didn't do anything that made it seem she wanted fame, after the courtship ended, but got a job in chik-fil-a and went to university.

I legit thought that as much as there's a FJ hivemind, we all wanted the very young fundy couples to have some time to get to know each other before having kids, especially seeing as they've only ever been together chaperoned....  It seems Carlin has had a really tough life, feeling so unworthy and terrible, per Gil's bragging about her, and then being kept at home to raise her siblings, and being made to wait for marriage while her younger sister could rush into it.  I really hope she gets time with her new husband to have some fun, and freedom, and learn more about herself, before she starts her own quiver.

I think Marjorie gets criticism for "wanting fame" primarily from that godawful courtship announcement video.

To those that are still criticizing her five years later... Seriously? Please remember yourself at 17, especially if you were into some type of public speaking (drama, speech & debate, Model UN) and/or were super outgoing -chances are, you did something really fucking cringey in front of a ton of people; I know i did.

Now, Famy... Famy is 100% desperately fair game. But Marjorie? Get over it. I honestly don't even get why she's still talked about on here so regularly.

[zcccrv]

3 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

None of the Duggars or Bates need contemplate leaving/changing because the money is still rolling in and life is, frankly, improved over the years that they’ve been fundie so from their perspective “God is providing/rewarding” them for their beliefs. 

Which is why they become worse with time. It's the hypocrisy. Claiming to be God's favorite people can only work if you are struggling- culturally or financially, ideally both. Having a comfortable, fashionable, mainstreem lifestyle totally clashes with the persecution required to be so righteous. It reveals them as frauds.

[stardust]

3 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

This is really good and really a sharp analytical point. I believe one of the Keller daughters got pregnant and left, correct? Not only did the Keller girls face basic poverty, she also slipped up and broke the rules. Those kind of factors make it easy to become analytical.

Does anyone have some more detailed info about what happened in this case? Do we know which guy she slept with (was he also fundie?) and how did they ever get the alone time to have sex? I would've loved to be a fly on the wall in the fundie community when this all went down. I'll bet Pa Keller's head exploded. I'm assuming she had the baby, but what exactly happened? Did they kick her out or did she leave voluntarily? Does she have social media?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, stardust said:

Do we know which guy she slept with (was he also fundie?) and how did they ever get the alone time to have sex? I would've loved to be a fly on the wall in the fundie community when this all went down.

She's no longer in the cult, she isn't pushing dangerous beliefs on anyone, and she's not courting fame with tv or social media. 

She's just a regular person.  Would you want strangers digging into your sex life just because of the lifestyle of your parents and some siblings that you didn't choose and can't control?

Can we not invade the privacy of innocent parties?

[VelociRapture]

5 minutes ago, stardust said:

Does anyone have some more detailed info about what happened in this case? Do we know which guy she slept with (was he also fundie?) and how did they ever get the alone time to have sex? I would've loved to be a fly on the wall in the fundie community when this all went down. I'll bet Pa Keller's head exploded. I'm assuming she had the baby, but what exactly happened? Did they kick her out or did she leave voluntarily? Does she have social media?

I don’t know specific details, nor do I want to know as it’s not my business. What I do know is that Suze either left or was kicked out. She did have the baby, a little girl, and I believe she lost contact with her family for a while. They reconciled at some point and Suze and her daughter have been at family gatherings over the last few years. She does have Instagram, but her account is usually set to private which is probably a good thing. I believe she dresses much less conservatively than Anna or Priscilla and I’m almost positive she would have had to work outside the home to support her family. 

ETA: Also, ditto what @HerNameIsBuffysaid so well. Suze is only known because her sister married Josh Duggar. She doesn’t appear to want public attention and she and her daughter deserve their privacy.

Edited May 27, 2019 by VelociRapture

[nelliebelle1197]

19 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I don’t know specific details, nor do I want to know as it’s not my business. What I do know is that Suze either left or was kicked out. She did have the baby, a little girl, and I believe she lost contact with her family for a while. They reconciled at some point and Suze and her daughter have been at family gatherings over the last few years. She does have Instagram, but her account is usually set to private which is probably a good thing. I believe she dresses much less conservatively than Anna or Priscilla and I’m almost positive she would have had to work outside the home to support her family. 

ETA: Also, ditto what @HerNameIsBuffysaid so well. Suze is only known because her sister married Josh Duggar. She doesn’t appear to want public attention and she and her daughter deserve their privacy.

Yeah that is basically why I was circumspect rather than specific