Zach & Whitney Bates Part 7: Fundie Babypocalypse in Full Effect

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, Karma said:

I love my youngest brother dearly (in fact he’s the only one of my three brothers who I have anything to do with , but that’s a story for another day). But even though he’s turning 50 this year, I still have vivid recollections of being very annoyed that he was put in my room as a baby and that every.single.day when I got home from school, I wasn’t allowed to play in my bedroom because he was asleep.  It was definitely no fun being 5-6 and having a baby in my room!  Lucky he was a gorgeous little brother  

I know. You can love them but still need your space. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 2/15/2021 at 3:09 AM, Johannah said:

And most women breastfeed for at least some period of time, which is logistically challenging if baby is in another room.

How?  Granted my kids were born in the 90s and things have changed, but I don't see how it would be logistically challenging to wake to a baby monitor and go into the baby's room to get them.  

[Jackie3]

46 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

How?  Granted my kids were born in the 90s and things have changed, but I don't see how it would be logistically challenging to wake to a baby monitor and go into the baby's room to get them.  

People have kept babies in other rooms for centuries. "Walking to another room" is a logistical problem? Maybe if you are disabled, but otherwise, I don't see it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

People have kept babies in other rooms for centuries. "Walking to another room" is a logistical problem? Maybe if you are disabled, but otherwise, I don't see it.

That was my point.  I don't think you're disagreeing with me.

[Johannah]

14 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

You disagree most Americans keep their babies in the nursery? Or disagree with their decision to do this?

Bradley is six, isn't he? I'm not sure he's going to think it's fun to have a noisy infant in his room. 

I disagree that most Americans keep their baby in a separate room from birth. The AAP guidelines recommend room sharing for the first six months to prevent SIDS. 

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

How?  Granted my kids were born in the 90s and things have changed, but I don't see how it would be logistically challenging to wake to a baby monitor and go into the baby's room to get them.  

It’s not that people are unable to walk to another room (although after having a c section or a tear from a vaginal delivery this actually is an issue for awhile). It’s that walking to another room, picking baby up, sitting in a chair, finishing a full feed, getting baby settled and back to sleep, and then getting yourself back in bed, all takes longer and makes it harder to go back to sleep than if you just roll over, stick baby on your boob, and then put them back in the bassinet.
 

For baby #2 I actually used the Halo Bassinest because it has a collapsible side adjacent to your bed. You barely have to move to pick baby up to feed, and afterwards can rest a hand on them to help them go back to sleep. Even gaining a few minutes of extra sleep during the nights of constant nursing is well worth it and proximity to baby makes a difference. Not to mention the SIDS risk reduction. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Johannah said:

back to sleep than if you just roll over, stick baby on your boob, and then put them back in the bassinet.

Is the AAP recommending co-sleeping now?  That is definitely not for everyone.  If you aren't co-sleeping you're doing all you mentioned with the exception of walking down the hall.  

Unless you use a bassinette like you describe, but that would be a very specific recommendation (as cool as it sounds) so I doubt the AAP would base a universal recommendation on a product.

[Alysabeth]

1 hour ago, Johannah said:

 

For baby #2 I actually used the Halo Bassinest because it has a collapsible side adjacent to your bed. You barely have to move to pick baby up to feed, and afterwards can rest a hand on them to help them go back to sleep. Even gaining a few minutes of extra sleep during the nights of constant nursing is well worth it and proximity to baby makes a difference. Not to mention the SIDS risk reduction. 

I had a similar crib to this and it was a lifesaver! I’m in the UK and the advice here is the same, baby in the same room as parents until at least 6 months to reduce the risk of SIDS. 

We waited longer than 6 months to put our son in his own room, until he stopped breastfeeding during the night. Those precious few seconds saved not having to walk down the hall to get him can make all the difference when you’re running on little sleep. It also means you can get to baby that little bit quicker before they fully wake, making it quicker and easier to settle them back to sleep (in my experience anyway!). 

[Johannah]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Is the AAP recommending co-sleeping now?  That is definitely not for everyone.  If you aren't co-sleeping you're doing all you mentioned with the exception of walking down the hall.  

Unless you use a bassinette like you describe, but that would be a very specific recommendation (as cool as it sounds) so I doubt the AAP would base a universal recommendation on a product.

No they are not recommending co-sleeping. They recommend room-sharing, not bed-sharing for the first 6 months. No specific bassinets or products required. 

[lumpentheologie]

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

[wendy-sparkles]

35 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

I love that you and your husband have separate bedrooms. I know a couple where the wife completely effed up her sleep permanently sharing a room with her (massively loudly) snoring husband. And they were well off with a spare room! Bring back separate bedrooms for all who want them I say.

[Melissa1977]

53 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

The recomendation is because little babies need to "listen" (I don't know a better word in English) other people's breath. It helps little babies to breathe properly while sleeping. Their naps would better be in the living room or near people, too. 

I know it may sound hard to sleep with a baby if you cannot sleep with anybody, but on the other side, motherhood causes a lot of changes and you do (and sometimes even enjoy!) things that you thought were impossible.

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

Monitors are wonderful for keeping in touch with babies even when you're in separate rooms. If you need a little space, especially after the first few weeks when everyone's sleep is a mess, no shame.

[JermajestyDuggar]

My 6 year old still sleeps in my room ? that boy is my barnacle. He’s so attached to me and I need to get him out of my room! I slept in my mom’s room until I was like 10. I would start out in my own room and end up in hers every night. I guess barnacles run in the family ?

[Dutch_girl]

2 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

We planned om letting DS sleeping in our room, but the little guy made so much noise that we couldn't sleep. Night 4 he moved to his own room, and we all slept so much better. I felt so bad about it, what kind of mother was I that I let my little baby sleep on his own?! (insert day 4 hormones ?).

When I talked about this to our pediatrician, she told us that the effects of sleeping together are really small, but the effects of well rested parents are huge (Less stress, better relationships, quicker healing, easier breastfeeding, lower chances of Shaken Baby Syndrome). So don't feel bad, if your child has a safe place to sleep (in a well rested, loving home), you are not endangering your child. 

[JillyO]

3 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

Two things I have learned about parenthood: 1) There is what’s “best” in an ideal world, and there is what’s actually best for your family in your particular circumstances in real life. They are not necessarily the same. 2) Someone will make you feel bad about every single parenting decision you make. Try not to let them  

If you end up having a baby, I would recommend doing your research and then making the best choice for YOUR family. You may find that once the baby is here, you can’t even IMAGINE having them sleep in a separate room until they’re a year old. Or you may find that it’s necessary for your mental health to move baby to the nursery after a week. Both are equally valid choices and you are not endangering your child with either one of those. Yes, there is a slightly increased chance of SIDS when baby doesn’t sleep in your room until about 4 months old. There is also a slightly increased chance of SIDS with cosleeping. The risks are still very, very small, and may be much smaller than the risk of other adverse outcomes due to sleep deprivation like Shaken Baby Syndrome (like PP said), PPD in parents,  car accidents etc. 

TLDR: Do what’s best for your family. Try not to judge others for doing the same, even if their choices are different from yours. 

[freethemall]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

Two things I have learned about parenthood: 1) There is what’s “best” in an ideal world, and there is what’s actually best for your family in your particular circumstances in real life. They are not necessarily the same. 2) Someone will make you feel bad about every single parenting decision you make. Try not to let them  

If you end up having a baby, I would recommend doing your research and then making the best choice for YOUR family. You may find that once the baby is here, you can’t even IMAGINE having them sleep in a separate room until they’re a year old. Or you may find that it’s necessary for your mental health to move baby to the nursery after a week. Both are equally valid choices and you are not endangering your child with either one of those. Yes, there is a slightly increased chance of SIDS when baby doesn’t sleep in your room until about 4 months old. There is also a slightly increased chance of SIDS with cosleeping. The risks are still very, very small, and may be much smaller than the risk of other adverse outcomes due to sleep deprivation like Shaken Baby Syndrome (like PP said), PPD in parents,  car accidents etc. 

TLDR: Do what’s best for your family. Try not to judge others for doing the same, even if their choices are different from yours. 

Hi let's be clear that some of the discussion here is not about personal preferences but safety recommendations. Similiar to the fact that car seats are not a personal preference (and for instance many states have been slow to legislate requirements for rear facing until age 2 minimum, hence fundies breaking that rule and turning early), feeding solids before 6 months is no longer seen as safe by pediatricians, and having baby in another room all night. And IMPORTANT: None of us should be giving advice that goes against recommendations unless we are this user's family doctor or pediatrician. 

Now with that said, theres a distinction between say putting baby for a nap in another room and checking in versus letting them go all night in another room. People used to move their babies to the nursery much earlier and it's really just not recommended anymore and trumps preferences.

6 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

This sleeping in the same room recommendation really sounds like a huge burden to me. I had always planned on having a nursery for a baby if I had one. My husband and I have separate bedrooms because neither of us can sleep much with the distraction of another person in the room, and we each need space that is just for us. If I/we (??) would have to give up all that to not endanger a child that makes me sad. 

You will find in general babies, while adorable and a joy, are in every way a huge burden. I say that with full love for my sweet toddler and excitement for the baby I'm due with in June but  full acknowledgment they're needy and annoying and burdensome. Overall though many find it to be less of a burden to keep them in the room for nighttime feedings and diaper changes, especially if you use a safe co-sleeper bassinet (not recommending co-sleeping to be clear! Baby still in their own bed!). And to be a broken record like I said above, it comes down to that fine balance between preferences and safety guidelines.

Edited March 4, 2021 by freethemall

[GuineaPigCourtship]

What I said to my mother yesterday when we were talking about my daughter was that there is absolutely no way to imagine how much a baby will disrupt your life. I imagined the big things like not going out (as if we could these days), arranging child care, the costs, etc. But I definitely didn't even consider how when she having a clingy day - which is most days at this age - the choice between hearing her cry or balancing her in one arm to pee or do anything else.Turns out I can do a lot with one arm.

[JillyO]

2 hours ago, freethemall said:

Hi let's be clear that some of the discussion here is not about personal preferences but safety recommendations. Similiar to the fact that car seats are not a personal preference (and for instance many states have been slow to legislate requirements for rear facing until age 2 minimum, hence fundies breaking that rule and turning early), feeding solids before 6 months is no longer seen as safe by pediatricians, and having baby in another room all night. And IMPORTANT: None of us should be giving advice that goes against recommendations unless we are this user's family doctor or pediatrician.

I’m not recommending anything except that people do their own research and make their own decisions based on that research and their own particular circumstances. I fully acknowledged that there is a slightly increased risk of SIDS if baby sleeps in their own room in the first four months of their life (no evidence of increased risk after 4 months, btw). But there is also an increased risk if parents get zero sleep with baby in their room, and therefore are more prone to get into car accidents, develop PPD, accidentally fall asleep with baby on the sofa, etc. These risks can be much greater than the risk of having baby in their own room at night. Very few things in life are black and white. This is definitely not one of them. 
Signed, a mom whose 7-month-old still sleeps in her bedroom 

[Mrs Ms]

2 hours ago, freethemall said:

Hi let's be clear that some of the discussion here is not about personal preferences but safety recommendations. Similiar to the fact that car seats are not a personal preference (and for instance many states have been slow to legislate requirements for rear facing until age 2 minimum, hence fundies breaking that rule and turning early), feeding solids before 6 months is no longer seen as safe by pediatricians, and having baby in another room all night. And IMPORTANT: None of us should be giving advice that goes against recommendations unless we are this user's family doctor or pediatrician. 

Now with that said, theres a distinction between say putting baby for a nap in another room and checking in versus letting them go all night in another room. People used to move their babies to the nursery much earlier and it's really just not recommended anymore and trumps preferences.

And different countries have different recommendations that are more important there than others. Here not bed sharing is the big one and bedroom sharing is way further down the priority list. 
Also, why is everyone assuming that @lumpentheologie will be the one to have to just deal with giving up her sleeping needs and that her husband won’t be the one to bedroom share? WTF people!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, freethemall said:

And IMPORTANT: None of us should be giving advice that goes against recommendations unless we are this user's family doctor or pediatrician. 

No - no one should be giving advice that they know is harmful. 

Asking people who are discussing parenting to familiarize themselves with every single recommendation by the AAP and the context before commenting is absurd.  No one should take advice from strangers on a message board without verifying it with their child's health care professional, but that's very different than telling people what she should and shouldn't post about here.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

35 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

Also, why is everyone assuming that @lumpentheologie will be the one to have to just deal with giving up her sleeping needs and that her husband won’t be the one to bedroom share? WTF people!

If he were the one participating in the discussion the comments would have been directed at him.  But she was the one sharing, so people responded to her.  No one implied all childcare should be on her.

[Meggo]

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My 6 year old still sleeps in my room ? that boy is my barnacle. He’s so attached to me and I need to get him out of my room! I slept in my mom’s room until I was like 10. I would start out in my own room and end up in hers every night. I guess barnacles run in the family ?

I also am raising a barnacle! He's just turned 8. He starts in his own room and more often than not - I wake up being shoved out of a king sized bed. Even when Dad isn't home and it's just us? I'm half hanging out of the bed because he keeps inching closer and closer and closer. He's like a ninja - most nights I don't even notice he's crept in.

 
I know I'll miss the cuddles eventually but OH SWEET GOURD - sleep in yer own bed once in a while!! 

Also - we did a lot of cosleeping when he was wee because he slept best ON someone. And the baby monitor broadcasting baby snorts and grunts (preemies are a loud bunch of babies) meant that I didn't get a lot of sleep... So I usually fell asleep after burping him - sitting up in the glider and waking up three hours later feeling like a paperclip.

 

[just_ordinary]

In retrospective I found my one year (because no nursery) in room baby sometimes less sleep disrupting than my toddler in the nursery now. We need a baby monitor because with closed doors we won’t hear a peep till the screaming really hits the roof. Therefore, we hear all sorts of sounds. And then lay half awake - waiting if there is some action required or not. And the older they get they might wake less but oh boy when they wake it is a whole other level (the odd phase when they wake up at 3am and are completely fit and party away, night terrors, 4am potty scream, talking in their sleep...).

I can only wish a great sleeper on anyone. Fingers crossed @lumpentheologie

[OHFL2009]

34 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If he were the one participating in the discussion the comments would have been directed at him.  But she was the one sharing, so people responded to her.  No one implied all childcare should be on her.

I don't have kids, but it also seems to me that if the mother is breastfeeding, it would make more sense for the baby to be in the mother's room. The father would either have to go to the kitchen to prepare a bottle of pumped milk, or wake the mother up to feed anyway, both of which would result in less net sleep. There a plenty of ways a father can pull his weight in childcare, but breastfeeding isn't one of them. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

25 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I can only wish a great sleeper on anyone. Fingers crossed @lumpentheologie

Fwiw I had three of them.  The longest any took to sleep through the night (6 hours) was 10 days.

The downside if they make up for it by nursing all day long (I fed on demand) but I couldn't complain because I was sleeping.