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Zach & Whitney Bates Part 7: Fundie Babypocalypse in Full Effect


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This can be said of many Quiverfull Fundies.  I'll be in the prayer closet. Send Irish Coffee.

When my middle daughter was three I asked her what she wanted for breakfast. She said "circles of darkness".  She meant cocoa puffs. 😆

Yes, a circlejerk that extends to several threads is a much better use of bandwidth. I can understand the frustration with how the Duggars and Bates are being discussed lately, but isn’t a three perso

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Ivycoveredtower

so here is Whit's shoutout to her mom, now I watched the wedding vow renewal episode and I knew she'd stayed with the Owens for awhile but I got the feeling from the episode that she was just a rebellious teen who basically ran away, until I was reading fundie Wiki and realized she'd been in Foster care since 13 and was actually officially adopted by the Owens now I really don't know what to think. 

 

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theotherelise

My understanding is that we absolutely do not know that Whitney entered foster care or was legally adopted. The source on fundie wiki is a bates blog post saying she was adopted by the owenses, but we never knew if that was a real, legal adoption. 

This was discussed in depth a couple threads back. 

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VelociRapture
53 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

so here is Whit's shoutout to her mom, now I watched the wedding vow renewal episode and I knew she'd stayed with the Owens for awhile but I got the feeling from the episode that she was just a rebellious teen who basically ran away, until I was reading fundie Wiki and realized she'd been in Foster care since 13 and was actually officially adopted by the Owens now I really don't know what to think. 

 

I wouldn’t trust the Wiki information. We’ve never had any official confirmation about when Whitney wound up living away from her parents or what the reason was. The most we’ve gotten was Whitney’s tearful and vague explanation during the vow renewal about making wrong choices as a teenager. That left a lot of people, myself included, feeling like something is probably off just because she seemed to assign so much guilt to herself and none to the adults (her biological parents) in the situation. But we don’t know anything for sure.

Kelly mentioned on their blog that Whit was adopted when she started courting Zach, but I don’t know if I’d consider that official confirmation. Kelly likes to play fast and loose with facts as she sees fit and she might have felt that saying Whit was adopted sounded better than saying she was unofficially living with another family. Maybe I’m wrong and she was relating the facts honestly as she knew them, but I really don’t trust Kelly or Gil to be honest about pretty much anything at this point.

Other than that we really know nothing. No one else with direct knowledge has really spoken publicly about it. I do think something more happened than she’s let on, but considering she was a minor at the time I don’t really feel comfortable participating in speculation about it. They’ve addressed it publicly now, so I can see why others might want to discuss it though.

1 minute ago, theotherelise said:

My understanding is that we absolutely do not know that Whitney entered foster care or was legally adopted. The source on fundie wiki is a bates blog post saying she was adopted by the owenses, but we never knew if that was a real, legal adoption. 

This was discussed in depth a couple threads back. 

Yeah, I don’t recall Whitney herself ever stating she was legally adopted. If she or any of the parents involved (the Perkins or Owenses) did I definitely missed it. I would consider that more of official confirmation than Kelly posting on her blog though because it came from someone directly involved in whatever happened, rather than someone indirectly involved who might have an agenda. 

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nausicaa

I also believe (and please take this with a grain of salt because my memory for these things is becoming shot) that the Owenses had taken in other kids who were having trouble in their homes and not legally adopted all of them. I don't know how official or legally binding any of these arrangements were.

I do remember pretty clearly that Whitney's adoptive father was a Baptist minister, so maybe they took in kids from their congregation who needed more support? I also recall that they lost some of their biological children in a car accident. 

And just some personal editorial: Since her adoptive parents were conservative Baptists, I've always given the "Whitney was so rebellious" narrative some side eye. It seems unlikely you'd choose to go live with a family like that if you didn't want any rules imposed on you as a kid.

The whole situation is strange to me and I can see the truth going a lot of different ways.

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VelociRapture
1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I also believe (and please take this with a grain of salt because my memory for these things is becoming shot) that the Owenses had taken in other kids who were having trouble in their homes and not legally adopted all of them. I don't know how official or legally binding any of these arrangements were.

I do remember pretty clearly that Whitney's adoptive father was a Baptist minister, so maybe they took in kids from their congregation who needed more support? I also recall that they lost some of their biological children in a car accident. 

And just some personal editorial: Since her adoptive parents were conservative Baptists, I've always given the "Whitney was so rebellious" narrative some side eye. It seems unlikely you'd choose to go live with a family like that if you didn't want any rules imposed on you as a kid.

The whole situation is strange to me and I can see the truth going a lot of different ways.

The Owenses lost one daughter, Laklee, in a car accident when she was 11. A quick google search turned up her obituary:

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There have been rumors bouncing around that Whitney was friendly with Laklee through Church and that’s how she was connected to the Owenses, but I don’t know if that’s actually true or not. Whitney would have turned 9 a few months after Laklee died (she turned 11 a month before her death), so it’s not impossible.

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Icea

I've always thought that Whitney was adopted based on the fact that her name was Whitney Owens (not Perkins) and if I recall correctly, it said Whitney Owens on the wedding invites and wedding programme. Would she be "allowed" to do that if it wasn't her legal surname? 

Other than that, I agree that we haven't really gotten any proper information of what really happened and why she ended up with the Owenses.

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VelociRapture
6 hours ago, Icea said:

I've always thought that Whitney was adopted based on the fact that her name was Whitney Owens (not Perkins) and if I recall correctly, it said Whitney Owens on the wedding invites and wedding programme. Would she be "allowed" to do that if it wasn't her legal surname? 

Other than that, I agree that we haven't really gotten any proper information of what really happened and why she ended up with the Owenses.

She never charged her name as far as I remember. She was always Whitney Perkins prior to marrying Zach. 

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theotherelise

You can go by whatever last name you want and certainly can put any last name on your wedding invitation. But any legal name changes related to custody and guardianship of minors would have been completed in a closed family court setting and records would not be accessible. If the county where they got married puts their marriage certificates online, then you could search and see what Whitney's legal name was at the time of filing for marriage. 

They do not just terminate parental rights easily. It takes a couple years if the parents are fighting to regain custody. I really don't believe Whitney's situation ever went through social services or the courts. On the outside chance it did, it would be far more likely for her to have legal guardianship from the Owenses, not full adoption.

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PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea

Another baby name to guess!

Hmm, Bradley and Kaci were most popular in the 1980s and 1990s respectively, so I'm going to go with something mega-popular in the early 2000s.

Boy: Ian Perkins --> I like that Ian doesn't seem to fit with Bradley and Kaci at all. Mix it up! It could honour John Owens but I'm not sure she still talks to the Owenses?

Girl: Marlee Pearl --> I figured they like the "ee" sound but have spelled it "ey" and "i" but not "ee" yet. (I'm hoping for an Alyssa-style range in spelling for the same sound.)

I'm really hoping they don't go for Maci/Macey/Macee - a nice name but so close to Kaci!

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JermajestyDuggar

I’m also thinking a cutesy name for a girl likely ending with an -ee sound. Maybe she will only spell girl names with an “i” at the end. Like Maci, Laci, or Jayci.

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JermajestyDuggar
1 minute ago, meee said:

I never noticed the -ee endings. 

So I'll guess Ainsley for a girl or Harvey for a boy.

Yeah they missed a real cutesy family spelling opportunity with Kaci. 

Zachary, Whitney, Bradley, and Kaci. If they wanted to stick with their theme they should have spelled it Kacy.

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singsingsing

Boy - Brayden

Girl - Hailey

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VelociRapture
3 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Another baby name to guess!

Hmm, Bradley and Kaci were most popular in the 1980s and 1990s respectively, so I'm going to go with something mega-popular in the early 2000s.

Boy: Ian Perkins --> I like that Ian doesn't seem to fit with Bradley and Kaci at all. Mix it up! It could honour John Owens but I'm not sure she still talks to the Owenses?

Girl: Marlee Pearl --> I figured they like the "ee" sound but have spelled it "ey" and "i" but not "ee" yet. (I'm hoping for an Alyssa-style range in spelling for the same sound.)

I'm really hoping they don't go for Maci/Macey/Macee - a nice name but so close to Kaci!

There’s been no public contact between Whit and the Owenses since shortly before Bradley’s birth. They may be in contact privately, but I’m inclined to think they aren’t. I’d be surprised if they opted to purposely honor the Owenses in this way, but anything is possible. 

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petrushka

Boy- Cody, Corey, Jeffrey, Riley, Wesley

Girl- Ashley/Ashli, Avery, Khloe, Lily/Lili, Ruby

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nvmbr02

I am guessing Kylie for a girl and Wesley for a boy.  I think Brody is a good guess or maybe Bode (like the skiier Bode Miller) Same end sound but different letter. 

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AussieKrissy
7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yeah they missed a real cutesy family spelling opportunity with Kaci. 

Zachary, Whitney, Bradley, and Kaci. If they wanted to stick with their theme they should have spelled it Kacy.

I think Zach is stand alone not Zachary, otherwise yes it is a super cute/sickly sweet theme I would be all over loving and hating if it was a friend

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Ivycoveredtower
9 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

I think Zach is stand alone not Zachary, otherwise yes it is a super cute/sickly sweet theme I would be all over loving and hating if it was a friend

no his full name is Zachary Gilvin Bates

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AussieKrissy
23 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

no his full name is Zachary Gilvin Bates

then it was a cute/sickly sweet op missed to do the Kacy

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TeaELSee

Whitney strikes me as someone who would name her daughter Paisley.

Guessing for for a boy is harder because I love the name Bradley/Brad. Is her Dad’s name John? If so maybe Jack as a nod to him.

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