Where in the World is Doug Phillips (Who is a Tool)? Part 10

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

@thoughtful -- hope you're doing these recaps while well-fortified with adult beverages or at least some high test dark chocolate.

I am a teetotaler - never liked the taste of anything alcoholic, or the tipsy sensation, so I just celebrated the fact that there was something potentially fattening and expensive that didn't tempt me.

I don't have any chocolate in the house -- I should probably go shopping before the next episode.

34 minutes ago, raspberrymint said:

How long is this movie?

One hour and 45 minutes.

[Howl]

12 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I am a teetotaler - never liked the taste of anything alcoholic

Ditto here, but I do love the smell of lovely whiskey.  I realized very early on that I have, literally, zero tolerance for alcohol and then discovered that there is an underlying metabolic issue for why this is so.  Zero tolerance means I could be drunk from half a can of beer and have a hangover the next day.  I must say that not drinking alcohol makes life less complicated (for me).  

But anyway, Where is Doug Phillips?  Where is the money going?  Is any coming in?  Where does he live?  NYC or San Antonio? What does he do?  Does Beall still care for the elderly? BTW, that salary will not rent an apartment in San Antonio, much less cover living expenses for a woman and two or three kids still at home.  

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Howl

[Hane]

4 minutes ago, Howl said:

Where is Doug Phillips?  Where is the money going?  Is any coming in?  Where does he live?  NYC or San Antonio? What does he do? 

 

[danvillebelle]

David Lee Roth...sigh.  Boy did I have it bad for him back in the day.  Saw him with Van Halen on the 1984 tour and then twice on his own - he put on a FANTASTIC show.  Such an entertainer.

He's a drug-addled mess now, but I'd still trust him WAY before I'd trust DPIART.  

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I realized very early on that I have, literally, zero tolerance for alcohol and then discovered that there is an underlying metabolic issue for why this is so.  Zero tolerance means I could be drunk from half a can of beer and have a hangover the next day. 

This problem I never had -- just the basic "taste buds of a small child" issue I have with all foods. Can't do spicy, either. I never got past tipsy, which was mostly an annoying sensation of not being able to hold my head up.

@Hane, Just a Gigolo is a great song for Doug. In fact, it's a great song -- here are some other recordings from its long history (Crosby for historical perspective and to hear the verse, Reinhardt and Grapelli because I like it, Prima because it was the popular recording that preceded Roth's, and I think it was the source of combining it with I Ain't Got Nobody):

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Of course, we all know the best rendition of I Ain't Got Nobody is this one:
 

Spoiler

 

And that concludes today's music history and silliness lesson.

[Hane]

@thoughtful, I’d forgotten about the Young Frankenstein one! I posted the David Lee Roth version instead of the Louis Prima one because of its cheesiness and depravity factor, both apropos for DPIARBT.

[VVV]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

But anyway, Where is Doug Phillips?  Where is the money going?  Is any coming in?  Where does he live?  NYC or San Antonio? What does he do?  Does Beall still care for the elderly? BTW, that salary will not rent an apartment in San Antonio, much less cover living expenses for a woman and two or three kids still at home.  

 

There are parts of San Antonio where a very modest salary would cover apartment rent, but Stone Oak is not one of them and I feel confident that Beall would not be willing to live where a home health aide's wages might cover a two- or three-BR apartment.

BTW no action to date on AmEx's lawsuit against DPIAT. Last record on file is still the citation issued to Debtor Doug on 3/8, returned on 4/9.

[Gabe]

Man I missed the AYNA snarkfest. I worked on the film in the costume department but was fired by the costume designer. I was really surprised because my supervisor loved me and we got along great.

I was told that I was fired because I had asked if I could work the same schedule as my supervisor because filming had switched to nights and I was told to come in at crew call even though I worked in the office making clothing. My supervisor was working days and then I would come in when they were leaving and have nobody to report to. I tried to make sure I had enough to do to keep me busy all night but I rarely had more than 2-4 hours of work before I ran out of stuff I was allowed to touch. So I just hung out on set for the rest of the night in case the two set costumers need assistance (which never happened.)

That went on for 4 days before I asked to work days. I got fired at the end of the week.

I don't have time to go into it but there is pretty much nothing at all in that film that is historically accurate in terms of clothing, hair, weapons, even the landscapes beautiful as they are, are  the highlands of Virginia and NC not Pennsylvania. There are differences to the keen eyed viewers.

The story is based on what we call a "captive narrative" in the 18th century historians community. It is a shame it was done so poorly because there is a bunch of fascinating history surrounding the Seven Years war in America. Captive narratives are their own fascinating group of stories and the politics between the various Native tribes and the European settlers is almost never explored in any meaningful way. I specialize in living history from this time period so if you ever find yourself in western PA at fort Pitt or Ligioner during their summer or fall events I'd be happy to talk about it.

[hoipolloi]

52 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I worked on the film in the costume department

No obligation to respond, of course, but can you share who had creative control over costumes, props & make-up for the actors? I'm definitely no expert but even to my eyes it looks like many of the designs are based on googling and probably little else. Obviously, finances played some role in what could be acquired or used, but still...

Yes, the Barbara Leininger account is one of a number of captivity narratives from that era. Although formulaic, they are still interesting.

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by hoipolloi

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Gabe said:

Captive narratives are their own fascinating group of stories and the politics between the various Native tribes and the European settlers is almost never explored in any meaningful way.

It is very rarely looked at from the position of the Native Americans. 

ETA: If you know of books that look at these stories from the perspective of NA I would love to know. I haven't found any. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by formergothardite

[Gabe]

47 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

No obligation to respond, of course, but can you share who had creative control over costumes, props & make-up for the actors? I'm definitely no expert but even to my eyes it looks like many of the designs are based on googling and probably little else. Obviously, finances played some role in what could be acquired or used, but still...

Yes, the Barbara Leininger account is one of a number of captivity narratives from that era. Although formulaic, they are still interesting.

 

Technically the director was George Escobar but he had either very little say or not much of an opinion. I think the creative stuff was hamstrung from the top (Leininger) but I wasn't in the upper echelons so I really don't know.

The Leiningers hired 3 different companies to make the film and they all fought the whole time. There was a group from Virginia of historical production design people (most of the crew from john Adams for example) But then they hired "advisors" from LA who booted all the Virginia people out of department head positions and ran the production into the ground.

None of the "hollywood advisors" were people of name or renown in LA (so far as I can tell) and in my opinion they were responsible for a bunch of crap but by far the biggest problem was the Leininger's wanted to rush the film. They had the script written in 3 months and only gave us about 2 months to prep a demanding period piece before they insisted filming had to start.

The script was constantly in revisions and there was no time to do anything well. The costume department was always working on the stuff needed tomorrow or the next day (and sometimes the stuff needed that day)

So the Leiningers rushed it and leaned into the advice of LA "bigwigs" who were really just jumped up assistants and long passed over talents instead of using the Virginia team and then they hired people like me in the "independent Christian film" groups and shoved us in wherever we fit to appease Doug

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Gabe said:

then they hired people like me in the "independent Christian film" groups and shoved us in wherever we fit to appease Doug

Thank you, @Gabe -- that's all very interesting. It sounds like what we use to call a total cluster back when I worked for the Army.

Re: excerpted comment above. Assuming that "Doug" is Doug Phillips, why would the Leiningers feel they had to appease him? Since it was their money, you'd think it would be the other way around. Did Doug thus call the shots on his costuming & part? 

Thanks again!

[Howl]

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

Captive narratives are their own fascinating group of stories

I was introduced to captive narratives through a book called The Captured: A True Story of Abduction by Indians on the Texas Frontier by Scott Zesch.  He discussed children who were captured by Apaches and Commanches in Central Texas in (mostly) the 1860s and subsequently repatriated to their families as older teen agers or young adults.   Many did not adapt well to their new lives, including Scott Zesch's great uncle, who lived as a recluse in a cave on the family ranch until his death.  The person who most intrigued me was Herman Lehmann, who also wrote an account of his captivity: Nine Years Among the Indians, 1870-1879: The Story of the Captivity and Life of a Texan Among the Indians. That led me to The Unredeemed Captive: A Family Story from Early America  about the Deerfield Massacre in Deerfield, MA in 1704 when a pastor and his surviving five children were captured and taken to Montreal.  The children are dispersed and adopted into various tribes.  However, these tribes were nominally under the Jesuits, which to Protestants of that time was a particularly heinous fate.  

 

[thoughtful]

5 hours ago, Gabe said:

They had the script written in 3 months and only gave us about 2 months to prep a demanding period piece before they insisted filming had to start.

The script was constantly in revisions and there was no time to do anything well.

Color me totally not surprised. Thanks for your input @Gabe, and you are not too late to the snark -- it's never too late to snark! We reminisce-snark all the time here.

?

[thoughtful]

Continuing the recap - the burning of Lydia.

Lydia is tied to a tree. The pyre of twigs is actually some distance in front of her. I guess it's supposed to be a long, torturous death by smoke.

After the twigs are lit, Lydia tells the children not to cry for her, because the Lord told her she would be with Him in heaven that day. She has a new accent for this speech. Oh, and we can now see that Owen and David and a few other kids are still with the captives.

Then she says something that makes the guy who set the fire angry - in fact, she says it twice. I bet you can guess what it is.

Spoiler

I forgive you.

Did you guess correctly? You pass Glib Facile Religious Scriptwriting 101. She also says "I love you Jesus" and a few other things I can't catch. She smiles beatifically. Fade out.

Night -- we now see the tree Lydia is tied to from behind, and it looks like the fire is still some distance from her. French soldiers run up, one of them yelling "This poor woman! What have you done?" He says she has suffered long enough (so I guess she's still alive) and shoots her as a mercy killing. The man who lit the fire tries to stop him, and one of the soldiers shoots him. Men, French and Native, glare at one another.

There are a lot of glaring and nostril-flaring men in this movie. Also, the actors playing Hannawoa and Galasko seem to feel the need to exaggerate their lip movements when they speak. I keep thinking of the Flehmen response.

Subtitle  - One Month Later - Moshkingo Village

So, we are back at Hannawoa and Galasko's home town. Dad gives more attention to Galasko than to his brother, and sibling rivalry is clearly brewing.

Papa Selinquaw tells Galasko and the captives "Walk this way," and I am deeply disappointed that not one of them says "If I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the talcum powder." These kids today -- no respect for the classics.

Galasko takes them near his home tent, and, while Barbara is watching. . . more later . . .

Edited September 3, 2019 by thoughtful
riffle

[Gabe]

11 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Thank you, @Gabe -- that's all very interesting. It sounds like what we use to call a total cluster back when I worked for the Army.

Re: excerpted comment above. Assuming that "Doug" is Doug Phillips, why would the Leiningers feel they had to appease him? Since it was their money, you'd think it would be the other way around. Did Doug thus call the shots on his costuming & part? 

Thanks again!

No, the Leiningers just wanted to get the film made. I think the main motivation was that it was supposed to be a launch vehicle for their daughter's (Kelly Greyson) "acting career". The reason they hired people like me and George Escobar was to "support the alternative Christian filmmakers" something they did for Doug's sake as far as I can tell.

George went and got the folks from John Adams, which was a great move. I really enjoyed working with them.

Then the Leiningers got nervous and hired advisers from LA to come in and oversee things. That's when stuff got bad in my opinion.

I was never a big fan of the script but I at least enjoyed working and learning from the professionals in the industry based in Virginia. When the crew from LA came they kinda threw everyone out on their ear and undid or redid a large part of our work. (keep in mind this transition took place about two weeks before filming started and by the middle of the production at least 1/3 of the original crew was fired or resigned in disgust.)

If the film had been made without the extra help it still would have been pretty bad from a script/story point of view. But some of the worst art decisions would never have happened and if we had had a solid 6 months of pre-production we might have stood a chance at making a decently historically accurate film even if it was still wooden from a story perspective.

[Howl]

12 hours ago, Howl said:

Many did not adapt well to their new lives, including Scott Zesch's great uncle, who lived as a recluse in a cave on the family ranch until his death.

To clarify, many captives were treated as cherished children and did not adapt well to life when returned to their families of origin. 

[kpmom]

Lydia's hair has some nice, beachy waves in that "I forgive you" picture.  I'm a little jealous.

That's all I got.

ETA: Well, let me add thanks for recapping this for us, @thoughtful

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by kpmom

[AmazonGrace]

On 9/3/2019 at 8:18 AM, thoughtful said:

 

Then she says something that makes the guy who set the fire angry - in fact, she says it twice. I bet you can guess what it is.

  Reveal hidden contents

I forgive you.

Did you guess correctly? You pass Glib Facile Religious Scriptwriting 101. She also says "I love you Jesus" and a few other things I can't catch. She smiles beatifically. Fade out.

Jealous Guy: "My name is JOHN!!!"

[thoughtful]

I did not forget that I am in the middle of the recap. I just noticed that @Gabe was not new to FJ, and thought I'd read his posts before going on. I'd been meaning to read the Boyer threads anyway, since they have popped to the top a few times, and I read the other thread on which he participated. It took a while, since the Boyer threads go back pretty far, and I started at the beginning and read everything.

He's never gotten verified, and did some joking about keeping us guessing, but folks seemed to accept that he is who he says he is. I leave it to others to read back as I did and decide for themselves.

https://www.freejinger.org/profile/24289-gabe/

So, he either has already told us (so I am not doxxing him here) or he is not really that Gabe (so I am not doxxing him here! ?).

https://www.instagram.com/theperiodtailor/

So, @Gabe, if you are that Gabe, it seems you've been too modest -- you were in the film, as well as working on costumes!

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3784558/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t67

Spoiler

Spoiler

I have two questions, Gabe:

1. Can you really play the bagpipes?

2. Did they throw you into a bad costume for that scene, or did you get to make something you at least thought was authentic, in time for the filming?

This is not a snarky question -- all I know about period costumes from this far back is that I hated wearing them when I was in an operetta company, so I'm clueless. Watching TCM has led to my being able to guess the year an unfamiliar movie was made (within a margin of 2-3 years), by watching a few minutes (sometimes seconds!), so I guess I'm getting an eye for 1920s-40s in spite of myself. And 1950s on I saw live and in person!

Those who know sewing posted frequently in the Boyer threads about how good Gabe's work is, and even this non-sewer can see it, but it runs to fitted military and upper-class costumes. This was in the crowd scene confronting the sheriff -- I figure he was supposed to be a settler there.

So Gabe, it made me curious whether you were thinking "I can't believe the camera is on me in this dreck" or "at least I'm in an accurate costume."

I'll resume the recap later . . .

[VVV]

9 hours ago, thoughtful said:

 

  Hide contents

 

  Hide contents

I have two questions, Gabe:

1. Can you really play the bagpipes?

Based on the dreadful hand position in the photo, I'm gonna say his answer is "no" to your first question.

 

[Gabe]

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I did not forget that I am in the middle of the recap. I just noticed that @Gabe was not new to FJ, and thought I'd read his posts before going on. I'd been meaning to read the Boyer threads anyway, since they have popped to the top a few times, and I read the other thread on which he participated. It took a while, since the Boyer threads go back pretty far, and I started at the beginning and read everything.

He's never gotten verified, and did some joking about keeping us guessing, but folks seemed to accept that he is who he says he is. I leave it to others to read back as I did and decide for themselves.

https://www.freejinger.org/profile/24289-gabe/

So, he either has already told us (so I am not doxxing him here) or he is not really that Gabe (so I am not doxxing him here! ?).

https://www.instagram.com/theperiodtailor/

So, @Gabe, if you are that Gabe, it seems you've been too modest -- you were in the film, as well as working on costumes!

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3784558/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t67

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

I have two questions, Gabe:

1. Can you really play the bagpipes?

2. Did they throw you into a bad costume for that scene, or did you get to make something you at least thought was authentic, in time for the filming?

This is not a snarky question -- all I know about period costumes from this far back is that I hated wearing them when I was in an operetta company, so I'm clueless. Watching TCM has led to my being able to guess the year an unfamiliar movie was made (within a margin of 2-3 years), by watching a few minutes (sometimes seconds!), so I guess I'm getting an eye for 1920s-40s in spite of myself. And 1950s on I saw live and in person!

Those who know sewing posted frequently in the Boyer threads about how good Gabe's work is, and even this non-sewer can see it, but it runs to fitted military and upper-class costumes. This was in the crowd scene confronting the sheriff -- I figure he was supposed to be a settler there.

So Gabe, it made me curious whether you were thinking "I can't believe the camera is on me in this dreck" or "at least I'm in an accurate costume."

I'll resume the recap later . . .

I showed up with correct pipes and clothing but was required to change and use a set of small-pipes instead. My "character" was itself an anachronism since this was shortly after the '45 and highland dress was forbidden by law unless you were in a highland regiment. PA was not where most of the Scottish settlers went anyways so the idea of having a Scottish piper at the head of a mob of people coming to demand the legislature give funds to raise a force of men to protect the frontier is pretty unlikely.

For proper highland dress I should have had a jacket (could be plain or tartan) and hose made from tartan cloth and I should have worn a neckcloth of some sort, and a blue bonnet would have been preferred instead of the modern almost beret object they gave me. 

I do play the bagpipes although I have never been an amazing player. I do it for fun and relaxations not competition or as part of a band.

[thoughtful]

Thanks, @Gabe. So it sounds like it was yet another part of the inaccurate mess. Hope you got paid!

Maybe he was supposed to be German, and the instrument was supposed to be a dudelsack.

Yeah, I just wanted an excuse to type the word dudelsack. It's such a fun word.

Anything else you can tell us about this fiasco -- er, film -- would be much appreciated.

[thoughtful]

Back to the recap.

As Barbara watches, Galasko ties this to the antlers over the door of his tent:

Spoiler

Barbara's reaction:

Spoiler

And, at this dramatic moment, when she is clearly in shock, realizing what that bit of hair is, we see her memory, of . . . of  . . . (oh, can I bring myself to say it?) . . .

Spoiler

. . . the office of the land speculator back in Europe, as he reassures her parents that there haven't been Indian attacks in 73 years and chats with her parents as Papa signs something (I guess the contract to buy the land).

Wait, what?

The film is trying to show us that this is Papa's scalp, and this is her flashback?!

She can be seen in the background of the scene, too, so she is remembering it from the other side of the room. And it goes on for about half a minute.

Granted, right after that, she has a few seconds of memories of the attack, but her seeing Papa's scalp sending her into such a bland memory is such a weird and clumsy choice. I would have gone for happy memories of Mama ruffling Papa's hair, then the attack, but what do I know.

Then, in case we still haven't caught on, we come back to the present, and she mouths "Papa."

BTW, the original scene of Papa and Christian being killed was way too short for there to have been a scalping. Now, I understand that it is a difficult thing to deal with in a film that is trying to be appropriate for children. But some indication that Galasko and his brother stayed long enough to take scalps, a line with one brother reminding the other to take scalps, one brother watching outside the cabin while the other was still inside -- any of the above would have done it.

I guess we are also supposed to realize this is the scalp Galasko wouldn't give up at Fort Duquesne. Apparently it's very important for him to have Papa's scalp.

 

Galasko's father, Selinquaw, pumps his fist and whoops. An old woman inspects Barbara and Marie, as Barbara stares at the scalp and mouths "Papapa."

Night -- stereotypical dancing, drumming and chanting, leathers and feathers. Hannawoa angrily drags Marie to the tent of the previously  mentioned old woman, who says "Now you work" and pushes her into the tent.

Galasko politely walks Barbara to a tent, calls out to its residents, and out pops . . .

Spoiler

Jubilee Phillips, playing a character named Hylea. Hylea gently takes Barbara's hand and leads her into the tent.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by thoughtful
clarity

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, thoughtful said:

The film is trying to show us that this is Papa's scalp

Of course she recognized it!

Papa happened to be the only individual with gray, shoulder-length straight hair in all of Penn's Creek, maybe in all of PA for that matter.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by hoipolloi