Josie and Kelton 4: Please Leave the Catholics Alone and Now Gestating

[Melissa1977]

I think is has been stated that a (healthy, married young) woman who has health care available and who does not use birth control would have 10-15 kids. In the old *good* times lots of babies and toddlers died, so out of 10 deliveries, probably only 6 or 7 lived. Old times data is not very reliable. Also a century ago, people used birth control, especially pull out. My great grandparents had from 3 to 6 kids and they were country people with no education (but not willing to give birth every other year).

Of course one can be healthy and not use birth control, but to have a low fertility and as a result, have just 1-2-3 kids no matter keep trying for 2 decades.

But if Bates/Duggars who are marrying young and getting pregnant so easily, have just 5 or 6 kids, of course most of them will have used birth control. Which does not make them less fundie, but will make a difference comparing with their parents. Their lives will be easier and more comfortable.

[19tacos&counting]

My mom is one of 5. My kids go to catholic school, and we know MANY families that have 4-5 kids. I agree that 5, even 6 kids isn’t THAT crazy even for a non religious family. I’m sure 5-6 you would get some double takes and questions. I think spacing is a bigger deal than overall number for some of these ladies.  Having 5-6 kids with a 2/2.5/3+year age gap is a lot more manageable. You might have a 10 8 5 3 year old and a newborn. The older kids are  more self sufficient. They can make themselves a sandwich, Shower, get dressed, go to sleep with minor trouble. They can also help with the younger kids. Having a 6 4 2.5 14 month old and a newborn is whole other world of hard. Many kids in diapers, kids needing help with almost all daily tasks. Tons of daily toddler melt downs. You could have 3/4 kids who aren’t sleeping through sleeping through the night yet.  The girls who have 4-5 kids in ~6 years might be a lot more tempted to stop. Those that space them out, intentionally or unintentionally, could have 8-10 kids. 

[SassyPants]

17 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

Yes that's the average! And that average is based on the fact that most couples use birth control.

I just mean that it wouldn't be odd if you had 5 kids (nobody would think oh wow look at that crazy family) and that it can be achieved not using birth control OR you could do it using birth control to purposely have 5 kids spaced evenly, and no one would bat an eye. 

2.4 is the average so theres highs and lows to it! 

I am one of 5 and no one considered my family to be weird. And my parents used birth control and chose to have 5. In the neighborhood I grew up in, 4-5 kids was pretty normal! But, it was upper middle class so maybe people just felt comfortable affording those kids. 

I’m not sure where you live, or how old you are, but I’m in the very pricey Bay Area in CA, and a family with 5 kids would be unusual here in 2019, aside from perhaps an immigrant, Latino family. Even in my church, there is no family with more than 3 kids. The same is true of my neighborhood.

[NanisBlessing]

Here in Germany you get looked at funny if you have more then 3 kids....at least were I live....further south maybe not so much since the southern part of Germany is mainly catholic......

[Natalie22]

13 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It is true that most people who don’t use birth control will not have anywhere near 19 kids. As an example, in the bad old days in Quebec women often married in their teens and were encouraged to have as many children as they possibly could (so there was an element of trying going on) and the vast majority still did not get to 19. Some did, but most were more in the ~8-14 range. 

*cough* Celine Dion *cough*

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/21/2019 at 8:42 PM, AussieKrissy said:

whitney has done the same. I remember it was a ep filmed at their grandparents house. skirt for filming pants for private pics

It really irked me. Just comes across as hypocritical and smarmy dishonest 

Well, you pretty much summed up the Gill Bates family.

[nelliebelle1197]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I’m not sure where you live, or how old you are, but I’m in the very pricey Bay Area in CA, and a family with 5 kids would be unusual here in 2019, aside from perhaps an immigrant, Latino family. Even in my church, there is no family with more than 3 kids. The same is true of my neighborhood.

Yeah, 5 kids would definitely get a side eye around my neck of the woods.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I’m not sure where you live, or how old you are, but I’m in the very pricey Bay Area in CA, and a family with 5 kids would be unusual here in 2019, aside from perhaps an immigrant, Latino family. Even in my church, there is no family with more than 3 kids. The same is true of my neighborhood.

It’s defintely where you live. Families with 4-5 kids are not uncommon where I am. From my observation, it’s certain groups that have 4-5 kids. Upper middle class people seem to have a lot of kids as a sort of status symbol. Four seems to be a popular number amongst that group. The orthodox Jewish people around me have 4-6 usually. Some of my catholic neighbors come from bigger families so they have 4-5 kids. It’s just their norm. I don’t live in a high cost of living area so that’s definitely part of it. But anything higher than 7 would get a major side eye around here. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[just_ordinary]

13 hours ago, NanisBlessing said:

Here in Germany you get looked at funny if you have more then 3 kids....at least were I live....further south maybe not so much since the southern part of Germany is mainly catholic......

I would say it’s not different further south. But I do see a change. People tend to start having slightly more children again. Three is the new two and I definitely see more people going for four than 2 years ago. But they are still pretty rare and definitely get a funny look. It’s going to be interesting if they make 4 kids more normal. Till now it’s more a phenomenon of groups with lower socioeconomic level and little education. From my experience, religion is no real factor for family size. Probably because even the Catholic Church is fine with nfp.

[miss_batson]

 

[lumpentheologie]

I don't know anyone under 50 with more than 3 kids.  And 3 is seen as a lot among the people I know.  I think the last time I even saw a family with 5 children was 3-4 years ago, and I definitely stared. 

My family is Catholic and larger families used to be more normal--my dad was one of 5, my grandmother one of 6. But no one in my parents' generation had more than 4, and no one in mine more than 3.  And when the ones who have a third announce, they say something about how crazy it is to be having a 3rd kid. I've noticed among my friends and cousins that a lot of them are stopping at 1 or not having kids at all, and that seems to be way more normal than in the past.  Out of my 17 first cousins (aged 26-56), 9 of us have no kids, 3 have 1, 3 have 2, and 2 have 3. 

[Audrey2]

My best friends from college, who married each other, have four, and they are not Catholic. A friend of mine from high school has either four or five. We all are pushing 50 with a  short stick (46-47). I will agree though, it's much more rare than it used to be.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Audrey2

[VBOY9977]

In my high school there where only two kids from my grade (out of 126)  who were in families of more than 3 kids. One was one of 4, and the other one of 5. 

In college most of my friends are only children

[FaithAndReason]

Out of all of our HS and college friends.....we are the only couple with three kids. Everyone else has 2. However, we have many friends that we've met since having kids who also have three kids. We have moved to an area of the US where moderately larger families (meaning 4-5 kids) is not uncommon. We have several families in our neighborhood with four kids and across the street they have 5. I would loved to have had 2 more (one more boy and one more girl) but we had to be realistic about the type of life we wanted (travelling with our kids on the regular and sending everyone to college) and we had to admit that 2 more would not work for us. 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/25/2019 at 3:08 AM, miss_batson said:

 

She looks 14.

[ophelia]

On 2/23/2019 at 5:12 PM, NanisBlessing said:

Here in Germany you get looked at funny if you have more then 3 kids....at least were I live....further south maybe not so much since the southern part of Germany is mainly catholic......

I'm also from Germany and feel like even a third kid can give you some side eyed looks. I've always wanted a big family, but now being 30 and single I feel like this dream might stay a dream. 

[nvmbr02]

People have a lot of kids around here. My kids go to school on a military base and most of their classmates have 2-5 siblings. But among the locals most people have at least 5 or 6. I met a woman at the laundromat the other night who had 7 kids, 3 of those kids already had 3-5 kids of their own and the oldest was only 26. A kid on my son's baseball team has 11 siblings and his dad is one of 21. 

I have 3 kids and I feel like that is a lot. 

[ophelia]

21 minutes ago, nvmbr02 said:

A kid on my son's baseball team has 11 siblings and his dad is one of 21. 

It always puzzles me when people have even more kids than the Bateses and Duggars. 

[Syriana]

14 minutes ago, ophelia said:

It always puzzles me when people have even more kids than the Bateses and Duggars. 

There are usually a few multiples in there.

My cousin had triplets the first time around, tried for baby 4 and numbers 5&6 came along for the ride - 6 under 2 was fun for her and her husband!

[QuiverFullofBooks]

19 minutes ago, Syriana said:

There are usually a few multiples in there.

My cousin had triplets the first time around, tried for baby 4 and numbers 5&6 came along for the ride - 6 under 2 was fun for her and her husband!

Seriously? Who tries for #4 when they have 1-year-old triplets?

[Syriana]

3 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Seriously? Who tries for #4 when they have 1-year-old triplets?

Someone who wanted to complete her family and get through the baby phase in as short a time as possible!  Everyone told her she was nuts, but she was determined to do things her way and bother her and her husband adore their pack.

[ophelia]

2 hours ago, Syriana said:

There are usually a few multiples in there.

My cousin had triplets the first time around, tried for baby 4 and numbers 5&6 came along for the ride - 6 under 2 was fun for her and her husband!

Wow. Just wow. How did they do it? Did they have a lot of help?

[Syriana]

Just now, ophelia said:

Wow. Just wow. How did they do it? Did they have a lot of help?

They had a full-time nanny, my cousin was on a career break and they had the babies' (very hands-on) grandparents nearby.  I don't know how they didn't all go nuts, my cousin says it was easy...they were already nuts to start with!

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Seriously? Who tries for #4 when they have 1-year-old triplets?

My friend had one-year-old boy triplets and she and her husband both had a dream they had a daughter so they tried for another. Twin girls one year later. 

Two years later at a family reunion, friend realized she was supposed to have one more boy and name him Jonathan. He turned one last month.

So she now has five year old triplets, three year old twins, and a one year old. Her husband is a doctor who makes good money so she is a SAHM and has a mother's helper three days a week, and they live on the same cul-de-sac as a bunch of his siblings and nieces/nephews for babysitting. They also had a night nanny when the triplets were newborns. She arrived at 10pm and left at 7am the next morning so my friend and her husband could sleep the night. 

[BennettLeland]

Maybe this has already been discussed but I just watched their wedding episode and call me crazy but it didn’t seem to imply that they saved their first kiss for marriage. Did I miss something?