Josie and Kelton 4: Please Leave the Catholics Alone and Now Gestating

[Hisey]

21 hours ago, Eponine said:

I've never heard anyone say to a soon-to-be-father, oh yeah you should stay home for 3 years because that time with a newborn is so fleeting!

This is so true. You should never say this to an expectant mother OR father. However, it's fine to post it here.

Similarly, I"d never push anyone to go back to work if they didn't want to (and could afford to stay home)

Basically, these are not the sort of things you say to expectant couples. However, we all have our opinions.

[luv2laugh]

4 hours ago, Hisey said:

This is so true. You should never say this to an expectant mother OR father. However, it's fine to post it here.

Similarly, I"d never push anyone to go back to work if they didn't want to (and could afford to stay home)

Basically, these are not the sort of things you say to expectant couples. However, we all have our opinions.

If you don’t feel your comments are ok to say to pregnant mothers, then why is it ok for you to post the comments here and have these misogynistic opinions?

[Pecansforeveryone]

Thank you, @luv2laugh. My mom was so fussed when my sister returned to work after the birth of each of her 3 daughters. (Her husband is a stay-at-home dad.) She would wail about how," The baby doesn't understand why the mama is leaving him/her?" Well, they don't understand a lot of things, like gravity or bladder control. However, moms come back at the end of the day and babies slowly learn mommy goes away but mommy always comes back. As long as there are no deeper issues of neglect/abuse, things generally work out as far as mommy/baby bonding. 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

hmmm, maybe they'll pick another K name for a baby girl, for both his mother and hers.  Katherine, Kathleen, Kimberly....lol. I know they know the sex and aren't sharing yet, but for now I'm team girl, all the way!

[AtlanticTug]

I think that it'll be a boy.

I can't imagine having a baby at 19. I had so much more of my adult to live before I'd have wanted to go down that path.

[Meghann]

 

[TeaELSee]

They have certainly come a long way from having a fear of sitting next to a student with green hair! (Or was that the Duggar’s?)  

regardless, that is a great haircut and I’m glad to see Josie has young clients.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

They have certainly come a long way from having a fear of sitting next to a student with green hair! (Or was that the Duggar’s?)  

regardless, that is a great haircut and I’m glad to see Josie has young clients.

I believe that was Erin Bates. 

I keep hoping Josie will become good friends with a very non fundie coworker or client. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I want to point something out about Josie’s job. Hers is by far the worldiest out of all the Bates girls. It’s much worldlier than going to Crown College or maybe even working at Sonic. I say this because of how her job works. She likely had to spend hours with that client with the rainbow hair. That shit takes awhile! We know the Bates girls are social. So it’s pretty likely Josie talks quite a bit with her customers. I bet she talked for awhile with that girl. What if that girl isn’t fundie? What if she talked about her fabulous life living with a boyfriend and going to a state college? Her married sisters are still in their bubbles but Josie is mixing with ordinary people. That’s dangerous in fundie land. 

[AliceInFundyland]

Or.. Gasp.. A girlfriend!

[lumpentheologie]

She's actually pretty good at her job, judging from these photos. Neither of those are easy styles to do. 

And I'm glad to see she's still allowed to work after announcing the pregnancy. 

[luv2laugh]

I am very glad to see she’s enjoying herself at her job. It can’t be easy to have morning sickness, aches, and exhaustion while being on your feet all day. I’m proud of her. Clearly, she values her financial independence enough to get up and keep going when everyone in her world is obviously encouraging her to quit and take it easy ... No judgment if she had quit however, I’m impressed she’s continuing to work given the fundie bubble she lives in and the pressure to be a SAHM that she faces. Her own parents are part of the executives that lead IBLP for heaven’s sake!

I noticed she dodged a commentator who asked “Are you going to work after you have the baby?”. Instead, she responded to someone who commented right after that one about something else so she saw the comment but chose not to answer it.

Also, I’ve heard that being a hairstylist can feel like being a therapist. You feel like best girlfriends with your clients and they tell you a lot about their life.

I have a friend that grew up IFB, went to an IFB college (think BJU, Crown, or PCC) and is a hairstylist. After marriage, she and her husband immediately attended a more accepting evangelical church and she began working. She quickly ditched the skirts, cut her hair short, and travels the world with her husband (on vacation time). She has been married for 4 years but no babies yet.

If Josie was committed to the IBLP way of life, she would have quit by now or continue to cut hair from home and only accept church clients. It’s a big IBLP NO NO to allow intimate worldly influences into your daily life which is part of the job description for a hairstylist. 

Additionally, I remember Alyssa said that while she ditched skirts, she wears them at the Bates Compound in order to “respect their beliefs”. It doesn’t mean they are no longer fundies but it’s still a big deal for Alyssa and Josie to buck the rules of their IBLP executive board parents. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by luv2laugh

[luv2laugh]

On 2/19/2019 at 7:21 AM, VelociRapture said:

To go off of this, we also can’t forget to include all women in this - including Transgender women. Black Trans women especially are at risk of serious violence and prejudice. 

(Not saying you forgot, but I’ve seen so many people purposely or accidentally overlook Trans women when discussing women’s rights and I want to be sure they aren’t overlooked.)

Yes. As women, we have to fight harder for the rights of transgender women and disabled women as well because they have it worse than other women. Feminism must protect transgender persons.

As mothers, we need to fight for stay at home moms and working moms because we equally suffer from workplace discrimination (SAHM greatly suffer from it if/when they return to work). Women of child-bearing age are less likely to be hired, remain hired, not demoted, and retained because stereotypically, they are viewed as less committed to the job because of motherhood.

Older women suffer more because of ageism but also because companies do not value mothers of any age. Companies only care about their bottom line and see motherhood as a liability rather than acknowledging men need to have equal parenting responsibilities. I can go on and on. There are companies that get away with not hiring women for certain positions by only “interviewing” them for reporting purposes and NOT offering them the job. More companies are doing this as a result of #MeToo and it’s a horrible injustice.

We need to fight for paid family leave to include those who adopt and care for parents. Changing it to paid family leave is important because it will make a point that it’s FAMILY leave (not simply a maternity leave based on one’s uterus) and ultimately, women of child bearing age and mothers will (hopefully become) less likely to be discriminated against.

Companies need to understand that men need to be equally involved in the parenting and enforcing FAMILY leave will benefit this process. If men take off work due to a sick kid or attending the kid’s soccer game, they’re seen as “being a good dad” whereas, if women do the same, they’re seen as “unreliable” and “not committed”.

Speaking of SAHMs, I know of an intelligent woman who stayed at home but went back to work after more than a decade. She received an undergraduate degree from a (great) college in engineering and got an MBA but stayed at home for over a decade and was re-entering workforce after the youngest grew older. She could not find a job. She had to work in used car sales despite being highly qualified for working at engineering companies. It’s HORRIBLE how companies treat mothers.

Edited February 20, 2019 by luv2laugh

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I want to point something out about Josie’s job. Hers is by far the worldiest out of all the Bates girls. It’s much worldlier than going to Crown College or maybe even working at Sonic. I say this because of how her job works. She likely had to spend hours with that client with the rainbow hair. That shit takes awhile! We know the Bates girls are social. So it’s pretty likely Josie talks quite a bit with her customers. I bet she talked for awhile with that girl. What if that girl isn’t fundie? What if she talked about her fabulous life living with a boyfriend and going to a state college? Her married sisters are still in their bubbles but Josie is mixing with ordinary people. That’s dangerous in fundie land. 

Alternatively: Josie had a captive audience to preach to about her beliefs for a while. I would hope she wouldn’t abuse her position of authority* like that and I would hope her bosses wouldn’t tolerate her doing that if she did, but it’s entirely possible she has or would do so. 

*And yes, I do consider it a position with some power considering the stylist is standing by the seated client while holding sharp objects or chemicals. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

If Josie was committed to the IBLP way of life, she would have quit by now or continue to cut hair from home and only accept church clients. It’s a big IBLP NO NO to allow intimate worldly influences into your daily life which is part of the job description for a hairstylist. 

Not really. IBLP  had a program called Advanced EXCEL where women designed their own businesses. You had to create a working business because IBLP really wasn't about unmarried girls sitting around doing nothing.  IBLP had a cosmetology school at one point. Plus, as long as her husband lets her do it then it really isn't an issue. Josie never left her umbrella of protection.

There is a story on the IBLP page about a woman who studied cosmetology and styled hair for her job, It says that she found her calling and obeyed God by doing this. Being able to have a captive audience to witness to was seen as a plus. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Alternatively: Josie had a captive audience to preach to about her beliefs for a while. I would hope she wouldn’t abuse her position of authority* like that and I would hope her bosses wouldn’t tolerate her doing that if she did, but it’s entirely possible she has or would do so. 

*And yes, I do consider it a position with some power considering the stylist is standing by the seated client while holding sharp objects or chemicals. 

I get the feeling Josie cares enough about money and keeping new clients to cool it on the IBLP stuff. Although I wouldn’t put it past her to pass some subtle hints. 

[JoiseyGoil]

What is the demographic of where Josie lives? Was it a near 100% Trump town, or is it becoming more liberal?

[albireo]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Alternatively: Josie had a captive audience to preach to about her beliefs for a while. I would hope she wouldn’t abuse her position of authority* like that and I would hope her bosses wouldn’t tolerate her doing that if she did, but it’s entirely possible she has or would do so. 

*And yes, I do consider it a position with some power considering the stylist is standing by the seated client while holding sharp objects or chemicals. 

Good point. I learned far more than I ever wanted to about UFO sightings near where I used to live because of a hairdresser. It's a good job for those who like to ramble on about their topic of choice.

[Dandruff]

17 minutes ago, albireo said:

Good point. I learned far more than I ever wanted to about UFO sightings near where I used to live because of a hairdresser. It's a good job for those who like to ramble on about their topic of choice.

I must seem like a good listener because I've heard hairdressers ramble on about some very gamy stuff.  The fact that they were using scissors on my hair caused me to listen longer, and attempt to change the subject more delicately, than I otherwise would have.

[AliceInFundyland]

Also, and this is not at all meant to be mean...she needs to keep working to improve her fancy coloring skills. She is still a novice. You can see the lines of the sections pretty well. It’s an art form to do that work.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

10 hours ago, JoiseyGoil said:

What is the demographic of where Josie lives? Was it a near 100% Trump town, or is it becoming more liberal?

58% Trump, 34% Clinton, quite a bit of support for third-party candidates, and over two percent of voters seem not to have cast their ballots for president.

The state university is in Knoxville and the metropolitan area has a population of over 800,000. It’s a city, not a town. A friend of mine elsewhere in East Tennessee calls it “Knoxvegas,” I guess because people go there to party.

[wandering woman]

11 hours ago, JoiseyGoil said:

What is the demographic of where Josie lives? Was it a near 100% Trump town, or is it becoming more liberal?

She is in Trump country.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Here’s the thing, even if she is mixing with other trump voters, that doesn’t mean they are fundie. Trump voters aren’t a monolith. I actually know a few Trump voters that are loud and proud atheists. And plenty that have had children outside of marriage. So even if she mixes with other trump voters, she’s getting outside of her bubble. 

[lizzybee]

Count me in with thinking they'll do something with the Kellyn/Kelton name similarity. 

[nolongerIFBx]

22 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

. . . .

Additionally, I remember Alyssa said that while she ditched skirts, she wears them at the Bates Compound in order to “respect their beliefs”. It doesn’t mean they are no longer fundies but it’s still a big deal for Alyssa and Josie to buck the rules of their IBLP executive board parents. 

Alyssa said that as long as they were in their parent's home they followed their parent's beliefs. Some interpreted this to mean that as long as they lived under their parent's roof, they kept their parent's rules. Others that they put the skirts back on when they came to visit. I'm in the former group and I thought that Whitney and Alyssa had been photographed in pants at the Bates home.