Josie and Kelton 3: Living in the White Evangelical Bubble

[just_ordinary]

4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

(Emphasis mine.) That’s not true. I went to an internationally respected American university, and they offered a “general studies” degree for students who had taken enough credits to graduate but had not met the requirements of any department to receive a degree in their field. The only person I recall getting one was an athlete who probably scheduled classes around athletics.

But wouldn’t she have to sign into „general studies“? And wouldn’t she need to take other courses in different subjects to round it up? Because your explanation sounds kind of as if it is a degree for people who just didn’t finish their intended degree. Like to avoid the number of drop-outs.

In my country the “studium generale” basically describes all public and not mandatory courses (mostly lectures). Iirc all our universities are accredited by our government and have the order to provide their students with the opportunity to get comprehensive knowledge in all fields. We believe education should not only be free (or as free as possible) but that you should also be as independent as possible (at least in my times) and that you should be allowed to study more than just your subject.

But you definitely cannot get a degree in a “studium generale”. It’s just an offer.

It isn’t as popular as it once was. Most fields require at least one to three interdisciplinary courses for a degree anyway.

[rebeccawriter01]

11 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

(Emphasis mine.) That’s not true. I went to an internationally respected American university, and they offered a “general studies” degree for students who had taken enough credits to graduate but had not met the requirements of any department to receive a degree in their field. The only person I recall getting one was an athlete who probably scheduled classes around athletics.

Some do offer this so that the college's completion rates do not get skewed by students dropping out without graduating or changing their majors multiple times and never finishing up. Those numbers are looked at very heavily when it comes to funding and accreditation. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Because your explanation sounds kind of as if it is a degree for people who just didn’t finish their intended degree. Like to avoid the number of drop-outs.

Yes, that’s correct. My university - which has a very high opinion of itself - felt that passing any combination of the minimum number of courses sufficed for a B.A. It was also a way to allow students to create interdisciplinary courses of study without having to spend an extra year or more at university so that they could meet the requirements of multiple departments.

[Kaylo]

Interdisciplinary studies is the same as liberal studies. In CA, people who want to teach elementary school get a BA in liberal studies, then enter a post grad teacher credentialing program. You don’t have to get your BA in liberal studies, but most do. It just means you studied a variety of topics, which makes sense because elementary teachers teach a variety of topics. For example, here is some info on the liberal studies degree at San Jose State.

 

[candygirl200413]

Also just realizing if Carlin is getting a "teaching degree" I forgot Liberty U is in VA and VA you can't get a bachelors in education, it has to be interdisciplinary so that also makes sense but I don't know if she would go for a Masters to really teach education (I forgot a lot of my sorority sisters did this and then did their masters the following year we graduated to get it in education)

[Kaylo]

Also just realizing if Carlin is getting a "teaching degree" I forgot Liberty U is in VA and VA you can't get a bachelors in education, it has to be interdisciplinary so that also makes sense but I don't know if she would go for a Masters to really teach education (I forgot a lot of my sorority sisters did this and then did their masters the following year we graduated to get it in education)

I agree that she probably won’t continue and actually get a teaching credential, but a lot of people were putting down interdisciplinary studies as not being a real degree and I wanted to set that record straight.

[TeaELSee]

The wedding dress shopping show this week for super boring.  Josie seemed like she wanted nothing to do with sightseeing.  I thought it was rude, just fake it for a few hours, you have guests that joined you on this trip.  They also edited out Whitney’s Mom.

I wish Kelly would have the lord lay it on her heart to stay home and take care of her younger children.

I do wonder if Josie watches Project Runway on the downlow since her wedding dress designer was a contestant. 

Regardless, Make it work Josie!

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

14 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

I do wonder if Josie watches Project Runway on the downlow since her wedding dress designer was a contestant. 

One of them said she watches the ball drop in Times Square every year. (The camera didn’t show them at the time and I didn’t try to identify her voice.) That wouldn’t be too surprising for Whitney.

[marmalade]

Yes, it was Whitney who remarked on the ball drop.

[Sheltie]

On 1/12/2019 at 12:15 AM, TeaELSee said:

The wedding dress shopping show this week for super boring.  Josie seemed like she wanted nothing to do with sightseeing.  I thought it was rude, just fake it for a few hours, you have guests that joined you on this trip.  They also edited out Whitney’s Mom.

I wish Kelly would have the lord lay it on her heart to stay home and take care of her younger children.

I do wonder if Josie watches Project Runway on the downlow since her wedding dress designer was a contestant. 

Regardless, Make it work Josie!

 

I don’t think they edited out Whitney’s mom.  The dress shopping trip looked like it was in summer or early fall.  The pic I saw of Whitney and her mom in NY was in winter around the holiday time.

[CuttySark]

On 1/11/2019 at 12:10 PM, Kaylo said:

 

I agree that she probably won’t continue and actually get a teaching credential, but a lot of people were putting down interdisciplinary studies as not being a real degree and I wanted to set that record straight.

 

Much obliged! I'm about seven months away from defending an Interdisciplinary PhD (knock on wood!), and it's most certainly a real thing. I'm doing that program because my project uses a combination of theoretical frameworks from archaeology, history, and material culture studies (dress studies). I not only had to study one discipline in depth, I have to master the literature and methodologies of four - the three core structures for my research plus interdisciplinary strategies in general.

I'm sure there are places where 'Interdisciplinary' means 'general whatever,' but there are studies of Interdisciplinary theory, journals for the discipline, and attempts (multiple) at defining methods for inter-disciplinary work and how it differs from trans-disciplinary and multi-disciplinary structures.

(kill me.) 

It's a relatively new field, but the drive to reduce the silo-ing of human knowledge and the very artificial way subjects get divvied up is a current topic of debate and, at least in Canada, goes along with a move to de-colonize academia in general. The idea is that separating out the categories of human knowledge into firmly delineated subjects like Biology and Chemistry, along with the tendency for over-specialization in tiny sub-fields, is a very eurocentric Enlightenment mode of thinking. It's also one that prevents scholars from taking in the big picture / a more holistic view of the world.

[TeaELSee]

4 hours ago, Sheltie said:

I don’t think they edited out Whitney’s mom.  The dress shopping trip looked like it was in summer or early fall.  The pic I saw of Whitney and her mom in NY was in winter around the holiday time.

You’re right! I just assumed it was the same trip. 2 trips to NYC in one year for Whitney, she really did seem to love it.

I believe anything that expands your world is a good thing.

[BeccaGrim]

I am still shocked Josie didn't buy her dress from that same woman all the rest of them did. And Kelly getting all worked up about the modesty of it.  Kelly, you are delivering the girl to the man she is about to have sex with. If he sees her arm through the lace, I don't think he'll be scandalized. But it was typical Bates.  

[mstee]

It was funny to me how Kelly didn’t t just say she felt the dress was immodest- she had to say “daddy might have a tough time with the dress” (paraphrasing). Does everything have to default to “daddy”? Patriarchal BS. 

[seraaa]

45 minutes ago, mstee said:

It was funny to me how Kelly didn’t t just say she felt the dress was immodest- she had to say “daddy might have a tough time with the dress” (paraphrasing). Does everything have to default to “daddy”? Patriarchal BS. 

A woman who is old enough to be getting married is old enough to pick her own dress without daddy's input.

 

[kmachete14]

@CuttySark That sounds what I would imagine interdisciplinary studies to be -- you are taking different disciplines and relating them. Whatever topic you know excel in, you have knowledge from many different fields and know how they can connect. What is your thesis? Did you find that you had a "concentration" in a traditional field that you took more classes from than others? 

Carlin's appears more like a hodge-podge of classes that just total up to 100 credits and get you a degree. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 hours ago, seraaa said:

A woman who is old enough to be getting married is old enough to pick her own dress without daddy's input.

 

I’d argue that at 19 she’s old enough to pick out her own dress, but not old enough to get married.  But I’m not a findiefondue.

[feministxtian]

On 1/14/2019 at 5:24 AM, mstee said:

It was funny to me how Kelly didn’t t just say she felt the dress was immodest- she had to say “daddy might have a tough time with the dress” (paraphrasing). Does everything have to default to “daddy”? Patriarchal BS. 

In my definitely NOT fundie teen years, the same phrase was used when picking out certain clothes, especially bathing suits. Yes, there were things my father DID NOT let me wear and made me take them back to the store pronto. 

My father was an agnostic, occasional Episcopalian C & E Catholic whose only concession to religion was sending his daughter to a Catholic school. 

[mstee]

6 hours ago, feministxtian said:

In my definitely NOT fundie teen years, the same phrase was used when picking out certain clothes, especially bathing suits. Yes, there were things my father DID NOT let me wear and made me take them back to the store pronto. 

My father was an agnostic, occasional Episcopalian C & E Catholic whose only concession to religion was sending his daughter to a Catholic school. 

I totally see where you are coming from. Taking the fact that Josie is an adult out of the equation, my issue with it all is the fact that Kelly wouldn’t just say “you know I think it would be nice to have a dress that’s a little less sheer and a little more modest”.  She kept bringing it back to Gil, as though if she said it, her words would hold no weight. So that was my bone to pick with tht scene. 

[Belugaloo]

2 hours ago, mstee said:

I totally see where you are coming from. Taking the fact that Josie is an adult out of the equation, my issue with it all is the fact that Kelly wouldn’t just say “you know I think it would be nice to have a dress that’s a little less sheer and a little more modest”.  She kept bringing it back to Gil, as though if she said it, her words would hold no weight. So that was my bone to pick with tht scene. 

My take on it was that Kelly wouldn't actually care (she seemed to really like the dress) if it weren't for Gil. 

[SassyPants]

I know we’ve talked about this before, but how hard it must be to go from a shear garment being too revealing to your newly minted husband grabbing your butt at the wedding reception? To go from chaperoned visits and side hugs to having sex all within a day. For a mostly emotionally stunted and immature group this has to be so mind boggling and difficult. 

Which raises the question is there truly any mutual respect in a fundie couple’s marriage? Is it always a matter of what he wants he gets? 

[VBOY9977]

Josie hung out with some Bontrager girls while they’re on tour in TN. I didn’t know they were friends. I know the Bontragers are friends with the Duggars so I guess that’s where they know each other from. And for some reason I can picture Nathan and Allison together

 

[metheglyn]

5 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

Josie hung out with some Bontrager girls while they’re on tour in TN. I didn’t know they were friends. I know the Bontragers are friends with the Duggars so I guess that’s where they know each other from. And for some reason I can picture Nathan and Allison together

 

Right, so that looks like Allison, who's 24 (25 in May), and Elizabeth, who just turned 16. And then Josie, who's 19. Allison's the oldest of the ones still at home, since all the other 20+s are married. I wonder how that works for their "Family Singers" group now.

Per the comment about Nathan and Allison, Nathan's a year older than Allison (!!!!), so would be in the likely age range. Personality-wise, I'd previously seen how Allison's views on men were...interesting. This post Allison wrote about how to relate to married siblings suggests to me that she might be easier for Nathan to get along with than Ashley, his previous courtship partner, since she definitely seems to doormat herself a lot. https://www.fromallison.com/being-a-good-sister-in-law/

Though she at least admits that things can genuinely be bad in some ways, so there's that...

"Respect your brother’s leadership and decision making as “man of his house”. Even if he’s your little brother, or if you would do things differently with your family, or whatever.

Your sis in law needs to know that YOU know that your brother’s heart is to love and lead his family well and that you trust him to do that in his own unique way. It will help her to trust him more, and to love you more. If this wasn’t the case (ie. if you didn’t respect your brother) this could either create major tension between you and your sis in law or start to build up distrust and major resentment between your brother and his wife. (To clarify: This assumes your brother, thought imperfect, loves the Lord and his wife. I am not referring to cases of abuse, neglect, or stupidity.)"

Plus, she's already pushing YoungLiving on her blog, so she's got the "influencer" thing already in progress like the Bates gals are trying to do nowadays! But if such a relationship were even a *possibility*, I wonder how Nathan would handle her having a relatively well followed personal fundie blog and a defined voice? That would certainly be a conundrum.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Allison is a country girl so that will work out just fine for Nathan. Plus she can be on tv and in front of an audience. And I doubt she would cut her hair. Nathan was at Chelsy and John’s wedding. 

[Kelsey]

We've been riding the Allison and Nathan ISB for awhile. I think since the Maxhell nuptials and Nathan and JD showed up.