Kendra, Joe, and Garrett Duggar: Part 11

[closetcagebaby]

1 hour ago, TZmom said:

I have never come across "vouvoyez". I have taken tons of French (although not in 15 years) and even French immersion programs, but I have never heard this being used. Maybe because I mostly dealt with non-native French speakers, or maybe because my French immersion was Acadian French. Is this common in Quebec or France?

Ive always seen it as “vouvoyer” which is a verb meaning to use vous with someone - that’s what I was taught in my high school French class at least, in the US. 

[TZmom]

9 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

Ive always seen it as “vouvoyer” which is a verb meaning to use vous with someone - that’s what I was taught in my high school French class at least, in the US. 

After this comment I looked it up. I was thinking of it as a pronoun rather than a verb. It makes more sense now. I'm not surprised I haven't come across it. I would have had very few opportunities to use it.

[CarrotCake]

7 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Now my big can of worms is how to address Japanese counterparts in business. I know I can call my Japanese coworker by his first name and that's all fine, but for so long I didn't know whether to call an external Japanese person I worked with "Surname-San", "Surname-Sensei" (I'd seen my Japanese coworker calling her that on email), or "Firstname". Eventually I figured it was alright to call her "Firstname" because that was how she'd sign off her emails to me, but it was such a weird social minefield I'd never dealt with before. 

Yes! I never get this. My Japanase collegueas address me with firstname-san but if they talk about their seniors it is lastname-san.

I am happy that the colleagues I mostly interact with either have an English name as well (so no -san needed) or are the General Manager of the office so need lastname-san for sure.

[SorenaJ]

That's interesting. I grew up in Denmark, and we called everyone by the first name. Our teachers, neighbors, friend's parents, parents in law, the priest at church, our manager. Last names were never really used. Made it easy because I didn't have to worry who to refer to someone by last or first name, formal or informal "you". Everyone was first name, informal "you". 

[Iamtheway]

12 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

That's interesting. I grew up in Denmark, and we called everyone by the first name. Our teachers, neighbors, friend's parents, parents in law, the priest at church, our manager. Last names were never really used. Made it easy because I didn't have to worry who to refer to someone by last or first name, formal or informal "you". Everyone was first name, informal "you". 

Same in Sweden. Very easy.

It does make it harder to know what to use in other languages though because that way of thinking was never learnt. I call my Australian inlaws by their first names and have since the first time I met them, it never occured to me that I maybe shouldn’t but they are very laid back so I think we’re cool. Or the fact that they just sent Miniway the loudest toy I have ever seen is pay back for my rudeness ... 

[Karma]

I think you’re fine @Iamtheway.  I’m in my 50’s and most definitely all adults were Mr/Mrs or Auntie/Uncle for close family friends as well as actual aunts/uncles when I was growing up.  It’s much different now.  My kids friends all call me by my first name, same as our little neighbours.  The only people my kids addressed as Mr/Mrs were teaches, although sometimes in high school it was Miss/Sir.   Our family still uses Aunt/Uncle, but only for people who actually ARE those relatives.  Lots of families don’t bother even with that.

[CarrotCake]

I think the weirdest combination is the Miss Firstname thing what they use in the south of the US, like Miss Renee. 

[WiseGirl]

8 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

"Vouvoyez''

So my brain sees this and jumps to "Voulez Vous" by Abba.

Clearly I've never taken French and my brain is in survival mode as it is three days until spring break and working wirh students now is like corraling kittens.

I do believe this little family will expand many, many more times. When they do, who knows, but odds are sooner rather than later.

[bal maiden]

I've lived in both France and the Netherlands, and speak both languages reasonably well. U/jij and vous/tu have never stopped being a minefield of mystery for me. I've found myself coming up with enormously convoluted ways to avoid saying 'you', or (in NL only, lol) regressing to English, even when I'm perfectly capable of expressing myself in Dutch, just to avoid said minefield. I just have zero instinct for it. 

[EyesOpen]

1 hour ago, CarrotCake said:

I think the weirdest combination is the Miss Firstname thing what they use in the south of the US, like Miss Renee. 

This is what I ask my kids to call neighbors or other familiar adults. Friend’s parents, etc. teachers are Mrs or mr last name. Familiar adults ms or mr first name. Obviously we’re mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and their aunt and uncle they call that.

[CarrotCake]

Just now, EyesOpen said:

This is what I ask my kids to call neighbors or other familiar adults. Friend’s parents, etc. teachers are Mrs or mr last name. Familiar adults ms or mr first name. Obviously we’re mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and their aunt and uncle they call that.

But why? If there is a formal relationship Mr.lastname would work and if there is an informal relationship then the firstname only is enough. 

[lumpentheologie]

9 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

But why? If there is a formal relationship Mr.lastname would work and if there is an informal relationship then the firstname only is enough. 

I'm not from the South and have never done this, but I think the idea is to be familiar while still being respectful. So it's not formal, but you're still acknowledging a difference in status, like when calling an aunt Aunt Firstname.  

As someone who would like things to be more egalitarian in general I'm not really a fan of this practice, but I think that's what it's going for. 

[Jana814]

My sister’s good friend has her 2 young sons who calls my sister & their other good friends Aunt first name. She’s has 2 half-brothers who are 15 plus years older then her but neither one of them has kids & she only sees one of them but they are uncle to her kids. 

[Cheetah]

3 hours ago, EyesOpen said:

This is what I ask my kids to call neighbors or other familiar adults. Friend’s parents, etc. teachers are Mrs or mr last name. Familiar adults ms or mr first name. Obviously we’re mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and their aunt and uncle they call that.

We did that a lot in CA when the kids were younger, especially with teachers.  My kids had a "Miss Erica" and a "Mr David" in elementary school, although their other teachers were all "Mrs. Lastname" (personal preference).  When I helped in the classroom back then I was "Miss Cheetah" usually.  

[Satan'sFortress]

 

6 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I'm not from the South and have never done this, but I think the idea is to be familiar while still being respectful. So it's not formal, but you're still acknowledging a difference in status, like when calling an aunt Aunt Firstname. 

I work in an informal education setting (think museum) and staff goes by Miss or Mr Firstname when we have kids visiting on a field trip or if we are at a school.  Often, the teachers call us that, even if I've introduced myself as Firstname.  I think it is exactly as @lumpentheologie described.  They maybe don't want their 1st graders calling us by a first name only?  And maybe last names can be hard to pronounce when these kids are only going to see us for an hour or two?

[Vivi_music]

19 hours ago, TZmom said:

I have never come across "vouvoyez". I have taken tons of French (although not in 15 years) and even French immersion programs, but I have never heard this being used. Maybe because I mostly dealt with non-native French speakers, or maybe because my French immersion was Acadian French. Is this common in Quebec or France?

Do you mean the verb ''vouvoyer'' in itself? The verb means to address someone using the formal pronoun ''vous'' rather than the informal ''tu''. The equivalent would be ''tutoyer''. Or the custom of calling someone ''vous''? From what I know of my experience living in France for a few months and seeing the linguistic habits of my French boyfriend, yes it is still pretty common to use it as a sign of respect in France.

I'd say in Quebec it is a bit less stiff than in France. From my experience in school (from elementary to high school), living here in Québec, a lot of teachers ask for the ''tu'' and not the ''vous''. I know that would never occur in France. A teacher's authority is not to be questionned and the ''vous'' is part of that. I think Québec is a bit more open about these social rules nowadays, but I would not say it dying out either. I use it in a professional setting for people in position of authority, for people I know are older than me, etc. I have not been to Acadie (I wish! One day! ) but I have known a few Francophones from the Maritimes and it seemed they could use the ''vous'' as well if the situation called for it.

[TZmom]

52 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

Do you mean the verb ''vouvoyer'' in itself? The verb means to address someone using the formal pronoun ''vous'' rather than the informal ''tu''. The equivalent would be ''tutoyer''. Or the custom of calling someone ''vous''? From what I know of my experience living in France for a few months and seeing the linguistic habits of my French boyfriend, yes it is still pretty common to use it as a sign of respect in France.

I'd say in Quebec it is a bit less stiff than in France. From my experience in school (from elementary to high school), living here in Québec, a lot of teachers ask for the ''tu'' and not the ''vous''. I know that would never occur in France. A teacher's authority is not to be questionned and the ''vous'' is part of that. I think Québec is a bit more open about these social rules nowadays, but I would not say it dying out either. I use it in a professional setting for people in position of authority, for people I know are older than me, etc. I have not been to Acadie (I wish! One day! ) but I have known a few Francophones from the Maritimes and it seemed they could use the ''vous'' as well if the situation called for it.

Yes, I was referring to the verb "vouvoyez". I have experience using "tu" and "vous" but had never come across the word "vouvoyer". I probably never needed to know it as in all cases where i spoke French,  it was with someone I knew,  or knew well enough to know their preference of "tu" or "vous".

[mpheels]

The Mr./Ms. Firstname practice in the Southern US is comparable to the use of aunt/uncle as honorifics for close, non-familial relationships in many parts of the world. Growing up, I used Mr./Ms. Firstname for any adults who were my parents’ generation or older and didn’t have a familial relation. The one family’s friend who was a physician was called Dr. Firstname. It’s used as a sign  of respect, while as acknowledging a relationship that is closer than just acquaintances. Family from my parents’ generation or older were aunt/uncle, regardless of actually relational status (so my mom’s cousins are aunts/uncles in title, even though they are my cousins as well by relation). People who were older then me but not old enough to be my parent (like babysitters, older cousins) were called by firstname. 

[EyesOpen]

14 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

But why? If there is a formal relationship Mr.lastname would work and if there is an informal relationship then the firstname only is enough. 

Yes. I just feel it’s more respectful with the ms or mr in front of the name. My 6 year old doesn’t need to be calling out to the neighbor by his first name. I also don’t live in the south but I have a lot of south influenced family and friends. And it stops me up a minute when other small children just call me by my name. I don’t know why, just how I was raised. I am a 38 year old woman and I call elderly folks ms. So and so, and say yes ma’am and no sir to everyone. when I did go to church I just called my pastor, Pastor Last name. I also call my children’s teachers Mrs last name. Dunno. 

[PumaLover]

16 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I think the weirdest combination is the Miss Firstname thing what they use in the south of the US, like Miss Renee. 

I got called Miss (my first name) by my daughter's friend the other day and it made me think of this. It was cute but then I also realized that I am officially an adult I guess.

[Glasgowghirl]

Some of my elderly neighbours growing up were called Mr or Mrs by everyone. I still refer to the ones still alive as Mr and Mrs followed by their name. Now most adults I know would rather people called them by their first name.

[kachuu]

My MIL lost her marbles when i started call her by her first name. She sat on it for a year being mad & not saying anything and then blew up two days before our wedding. In total spitefulness, she started calling my son by a different name when he came along.

 

People are insane.

[SillyDillys]

Look what popped up on myFacebook  feed. Called it

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/news/counting-ons-joe-kendra-duggar-pregnant-expecting-2nd-child/

[GnomeCat]

Another baby announcement!!  Everyone's spider senses were tingling for a reason.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/news/counting-ons-joe-kendra-duggar-pregnant-expecting-2nd-child/?fbclid=IwAR0ruRkyN5ZIc7TrfEnJv2XvAgPvHuLcRvWQpYq-GFgDKuTVTP6DjxR0IXI

[kachuu]

Mine is 10 months as well and the thought of another baby AGAIN--- , omg, i couldn't handle it!