JinJer and Felicity 42: American Girl (grand)Duggar

[Scrabblemaster]

6 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

@feministxtianI also live on the surface of the sun. My outdoor thermometer read 121 yesterday. The only thing that really pisses me off about the heat is when I forget to put the steering wheel cover on and I have to sit there with the AC running in the car to cool the steering wheel down. Otherwise, we tolerate the heat and adjust our outside time.

OK. Wow. Just wow. I had to use google to change Fahrenheit in Celsius and I will no longer complain about the 37 degree Celsius ( 98 Fahrenheit) we have here right now. Since about a week or so. But my AC broke down last week so I am using these old-school ACs aka windows... I don't have a steering wheel cover and I might buy one, that sounds pretty amazing! 

[Chickenbutt]

@ScrabblemasterOur temps hit 100 about April and last until about October. July and August are pretty brutal. Temps average in the mid 100teens, but occasionally get into the high 100teens, low 120's. But I wouldn't live anywhere else. You get used to it. The winters are great tho. Average temp is in the 70's/80's and mornings and evenings are cool and very nice. It is 11:49pm here right now and the outdoor thermometer is reading 98 F. Thank goodness for the person that invented AC!

[DillyDally]

14 hours ago, Mayluka said:

Wow there are some big judgements about personalities and life being made in this thread based on nursery decor and a single quote from a magazine. I’m not going to add anything to the discussion other than to summon Cathy Dillard.

"Making a lot of assumptions" should be a post count title 

[Chewing Gum]

9 hours ago, Georgiana said:

 

I particularly enjoy how they staged the toys on the floor under the table to make it look more casual and relatable, but Felicity is hours old, so I don't think she's been playing with blocks, that abstract noisemaker, or Mr. Caterpillar.  Not even my goldfish was playing with toys that young!  

Actually these pics of Jinger and Felicity were taken after Jessa’s pics with Spurg and Henry. In those pics the boys were playing with the caterpillar. 

[nelliebelle1197]

18 hours ago, feministxtian said:

You're STILL not getting it. When you have children, you tend to go back to what's familiar. You DO NOT KNOW JACK SHIT about how they're going to raise that child. As I said above, suspend judgement for a few years. I get that y'all absolutely hate the way the Duggar kids were raised and their shitty beliefs. What I'm trying (and failing) to get you to understand is that it takes YEARS to undo that sort of shit. YEARS! So, lay the fuck off until you have some PROOF that they're raising that kid like shit. Jill & Derdick deserve the derision they're getting for the way they're treating their boys. Anna and Turd deserve derision too. JinJer have not shown anything yet. 

First of all, if you don't hate these beliefs why are you here? That is the mission of FJ. Full stop.

And you know, this is the thing. None of us know anything really  about how any of the fundies we follow are doing ANYTHING. NOTHING. Nothing about food scarcity with the Rods, nothing about sheltering of the Maxwells, why the Bates have altered the dress codes, the insanity inside the Anderson household, what happened with the Shupes, how the Mortons are managing the incest, NOTHING.  Yet everyone makes massive judgements based on pure speculation and snippets on blogs and TV.

Guess what? If these people are still ultra-right wing, theocratic ultra-religious nuts. Jinjer is an adult and she has chosen to stay an ultra right wing nut who would gladly allow someone like Mike Pence destroy my country and take away my rights because it fits her world view. So yeah, I have proof she is a terrible parent. She is bringing another child into a hateful, bigoted cult. She is warping a young mind and it has already started. You can't separate how she decorates a nursery and the fact that she part of a destructive cult that is intent on hurting you, me and the rest of us who don't fall in line. That is the ultimate goal of fundamentalists of any stripe - fall in line or get out of the way.

That is what I KNOW. And it is true. I don't understand why so many in Duggarland fangirl over these awful people. The only Duggars who deserve any sympathy are the J-kids still at home and the children the older ones are having.

It is really sickening how things have changed over here. The whole of point of FJ was not to squee over the Duggars or the Bates, but to discuss the damage done by the these people in the name of their gods. If there is fun to be had over nursery discussions do, but it looks like a lot of people forget who the enemy really is.

[nelliebelle1197]

17 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I would say conservative Christian with Fundie leanings. But they were never part of the ATI skirts only courtship rules set IIRC.Ben was impressed by the Duggar Dogma  and sought them out. 

If Derek's family was Vision Forum, they were in fact fundie as hell. ATI is not the only fundie and is not skirts only.

[formergothardite]

58 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

If Derek's family was Vision Forum, they were in fact fundie as hell. ATI is not the only fundie and is not skirts only.

Preach it! I feel like we have to have this discussion about ever five seconds. There are fundie branches that drink and dance. There are fundies that have no issue with sending their daughters to college(there are whole fundie colleges!), there are fundies that wear skirts. There are fundies that what regular television and movies. Even in ATI there was quite a lot of diversity. I wore shorts and regular bathing suits. Others ATI families were even more liberal and went to see movies. Just because someone wears regular clothes doesn't mean they aren't fundie. It just means they are a different type of fundie than the skirts only branch. 

We don't really know a hell of a lot about what goes on in the mind of Jinger, but what we do know is that she is still supporting a belief system that is dangerous and damaging and could very well impact the lives of many of us.   

[melon]

12 hours ago, feministxtian said:

our cars came with us from the east coast...they both have leather seats. NEVER FUCKING AGAIN!!! I need to get my windows tinted too. In VA tint on the front windows was a big no-no. Here I think it's a matter of health and safety. I'm planning to buy a new vehicle in the fairly near future...and that will have cloth seats and tinted as hell windows. 

When one of my sons bought his first vehicle,a few days.later,my ride to work called out,so my son let me drive his Jimmy to work.,mind you,as the boys used to say,I to get up at the butt crack of dawn,and it was still dark outside.

He got his Jimmy in the summer....I am driving along,getting used to it,I can't figure out for the life of me,why it was so hot.

His JImmy had heated seats,and when I adjust the seat,I turned on the heat on the seat,in June,in South Carolina...lol.

Those seats were nice on very cold days,though.

[singsingsing]

I don’t see how it helps or contributes to this forum’s mission at all to make totally hyperbolic statements that just look ludicrous to an outside observer, someone who’s maybe curious about fundamentalism and looking at different sides of the issue - they’re just going to come away thinking we’re deranged and untrustworthy. Again, how does that contribute to FJ’s mission of showcasing the dangers of fundamentalism?

I’m sorry, but I fail to see how having a couple of your sisters help decorate your nursery in a ‘southwest’ theme constitutes one of the dangers of fundamentalism.

Isn’t there a reason we have a ‘keep BEC comments to a minimum’ rule here? This is BEC. I can’t think of a single thing about their nursery/decorating that is relevant to their fundamentalist beliefs. If you want to say ‘Jinger will probably parent badly because she’s still fundie’, go for it. I’m with you. But saying, ‘Jinger will be a shit parent because Jessa helps her decorate/she’s obsessed with coffee/she has a pedicure’ - it just weakens the entire point, because it’s irrelevant and makes no sense. 

Fundie fangirling pisses me off too, but it also bothers me when people are accused of being fangirls simply because they dare to say anything remotely positive, or express doubt that a certain criticism is warranted. That’s not fangirling, that’s recognizing that the people we discuss are multi-faceted human beings rather than cardboard caricatures of evil villains.

[SamiKatz]

2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

First of all, if you don't hate these beliefs why are you here? That is the mission of FJ. Full stop.

And you know, this is the thing. None of us know anything really  about how any of the fundies we follow are doing ANYTHING. NOTHING. Nothing about food scarcity with the Rods, nothing about sheltering of the Maxwells, why the Bates have altered the dress codes, the insanity inside the Anderson household, what happened with the Shupes, how the Mortons are managing the incest, NOTHING.  Yet everyone makes massive judgements based on pure speculation and snippets on blogs and TV.

Guess what? If these people are still ultra-right wing, theocratic ultra-religious nuts. Jinjer is an adult and she has chosen to stay an ultra right wing nut who would gladly allow someone like Mike Pence destroy my country and take away my rights because it fits her world view. So yeah, I have proof she is a terrible parent. She is bringing another child into a hateful, bigoted cult. She is warping a young mind and it has already started. You can't separate how she decorates a nursery and the fact that she part of a destructive cult that is intent on hurting you, me and the rest of us who don't fall in line. That is the ultimate goal of fundamentalists of any stripe - fall in line or get out of the way.

That is what I KNOW. And it is true. I don't understand why so many in Duggarland fangirl over these awful people. The only Duggars who deserve any sympathy are the J-kids still at home and the children the older ones are having.

It is really sickening how things have changed over here. The whole of point of FJ was not to squee over the Duggars or the Bates, but to discuss the damage done by the these people in the name of their gods. If there is fun to be had over nursery discussions do, but it looks like a lot of people forget who the enemy really is.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion (that they are horrible people), but that doesn't mean that someone that disagrees with it is fangirlling.  I think their beliefs are terrible, and find the "legitimizing" of fundamentalism in the United States terrifying, but I also believe these "children" have been absolutely 100% brainwashed and need to recognize how wrong the way they were raised is before (if they ever do),  they can change.  

What I don't understand, is how pages and pages criticizing everything they wear, eat, do, the way they look, and overall BEC of some of the comments on this site, contribute to discuss the damage done by these people in the name of their gods either.   

 

 

[nst]

15 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

cardboard caricatures of evil villains.

i have visions of jessa and ben selling caricatures of themselves from their honeymoon to the public and  we can throw darts at them. 

and fangiriling is something I do with DD not Jessa Seewald -  

 

 

 

 

[Lisafer]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Preach it! I feel like we have to have this discussion about ever five seconds. There are fundie branches that drink and dance. There are fundies that have no issue with sending their daughters to college(there are whole fundie colleges!), there are fundies that wear skirts. There are fundies that what regular television and movies. Even in ATI there was quite a lot of diversity. I wore shorts and regular bathing suits. Others ATI families were even more liberal and went to see movies. Just because someone wears regular clothes doesn't mean they aren't fundie. It just means they are a different type of fundie than the skirts only branch. 

We don't really know a hell of a lot about what goes on in the mind of Jinger, but what we do know is that she is still supporting a belief system that is dangerous and damaging and could very well impact the lives of many of us.   

Yep, it seems like every five seconds we're covering the same ground, lol.

I learned really fast when I started posting on FJ that the Duggar threads are like a minefield. I don't understand it. On QofS we're having great discussions and people are getting along really well. On QofD, well, I'm scared to even post anything!

[nst]

Just now, Lisafer said:

Yep, it seems like every five seconds we're covering the same ground, lol.

I learned really fast when I started posting on FJ that the Duggar threads are like a minefield. I don't understand it. On QofS we're having great discussions and people are getting along really well. On QofD, well, I'm scared to even post anything!

they are only mine fields if you let them be. 

I could go on and on about Ben's biceps but deep down I have to realize over time that his wedding outfit was ugly and that he has horrid beliefs. 

i know the truth. 

post and move on and just be 

[Lisafer]

Just now, nst said:

they are only mine fields if you let them be. 

I could go on and on about Ben's biceps but deep down I have to realize over time that his wedding outfit was ugly and that he has horrid beliefs. 

i know the truth. 

post and move on and just be 

No, I meant downvotes fly around here like missiles and people get very heated. I'd like it better if it were more calm. 

But nobody has any obligation to change the tenor of their discourse for me. I read the Duggar threads and try to save my posting for QofS. 

I never noticed Ben's biceps. He's too young for my taste. 

[SassyPants]

I like the nursery colors, although I don’t think it’s really Indicative of a southwestern theme which generally incorporates rich, vibrant, warm colors. This is a very cool, tranquil nursery. I think it needs some art on the walls, but if they’re planning on moving to LA....

[nst]

11 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

No, I meant downvotes fly around here like missiles and people get very heated. I'd like it better if it were more calm. 

But nobody has any obligation to change the tenor of their discourse for me. I read the Duggar threads and try to save my posting for QofS. 

I never noticed Ben's biceps. He's too young for my taste. 

down votes are popular by a certain group of people.

just ignore them. 

and I am like 20 years older than Ben but can appreciate his biceps

 

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I like the nursery colors, although I don’t think it’s really Indicative of a southwestern theme which generally incorporates rich, vibrant, warm colors. This is a very cool, tranquil nursery. I think it needs some art on the walls, but if they’re planning on moving to LA....

perhaps TLC decorated it for the photo shoot. 

I would do white black and grey but that is me. 

and a palm tree instead of a sun beam 

think kramer v kramer. 

 

[Lisafer]

3 minutes ago, nst said:

and I am like 20 years older than Ben but can appreciate his biceps

I had to look up Ben Seewald's biceps to see what you were talking about. I'm about 7 years older than Ben; I'm not really much of a bicep woman, I guess! But here, have some non-Seewald biceps for defrauding purposes:

Spoiler

 

[SilverBeach]

38 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I also believe these "children" have been absolutely 100% brainwashed and need to recognize how wrong the way they were raised is before (if they ever do),  they can change.  

We have had this discussion many times over the years. I'll repeat what I have said previously.

Recognition by a brainwashed person that something is wrong often requires a precipitating event that is very hurtful to them or someone they love that they are no longer willing to excuse (unless a person is rebellious/independent by nature and the brainwashing never actually "took"). Those who leave high-control groups like the FLDS, Jehovah Witnesses, etc., don't just up and leave suddenly but often have periods of cognitive dissonance and internal conflict before belief fades and they take action to get out. They pay a high cost for leaving but usually consider their freedom worth it.

The thing with the Duggars, and probably the Bateseses, is that they are extremely comfortable with their life situation. There is no reason to question anything, or motivation to rock the boat. They live in an echo chamber and have rationalized away the wrong done to them within their families.  Our criticism of them matters none because they are smug and holy, while we are heathens.

It is disheartening to see an ever growing army of culture warriors being born who will be indoctrinated to support theocracy, including working against a woman's right to choose. I certainly hope their eyes open at some point. But I'm not holding my breath.

Sorry to see that this discussion has prompted VelociRapture to deactivate.

 

[feministxtian]

4 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Those who leave high-control groups like the FLDS, Jehovah Witnesses, etc., don't just up and leave suddenly but often have periods of cognitive dissonance and internal conflict before belief fades and they take action to get out. They pay a high cost for leaving but usually consider their freedom worth it.

My stepdaughters left the JWs. One left pretty much easily as she had her then boyfriend (now husband) and his family behind her. The other one took years to leave. She'd wrapped her entire identity in the JWs, trying to be the most "theocratic" JW maiden ever in a drive to be just so perfect. She's 32, and I'd have to say she finally broke the ties about 4-5 years ago. I think her sister helped her some but what did it was packing up and moving across the state. 

So, looking for Jinger or any of the Duggar kidults to leave their belief system the minute they get married is utterly unrealistic. It's not excusing them at all...but to a point, the blame still lies solely on JB & M's shoulders for brainwashing their children. Josh will never move out from under those beliefs, I don't think Jill & Derdick will either. The rest, it's a wait and see game. Where will they be in 10 years? 

[SamiKatz]

I know this doesn't apply to the older kids, but I can't help but think that for someone of them, critical thinking skills were literally beaten out of them (i.e. a child trying to crawl off of blanket).  

My eyes were really opened to the effect of brainwashing by reading Leah Remini's book on Scientology, and she was not even raised in that cult from infancy.  I think it's a very hard thing to recover from and agree that you can't do so until something happens that makes you realize were in fact brainwashed.

That doesn't mean I support their beliefs in any way however.

[fundiesfordays]

I was raised with the belief that any slight misstep I took would send me directly to hell. My whole childhood was focused around avoiding hell. I was convinced I would never make it to Heaven because of anything I did wrong. The expectations placed on me (by others and myself) were crippling. The power of fear is limitless.

I moved out almost ten years ago, and only recently have I truly begun to understand how damaged I am. I can't imagine what the children of Gothardism must face emotionally. Being secure with your religion (or lack thereof) is of critical importance to mental health, and the relationship they have with religion isn't healthy. I don't know them personally, but I am sure that some of them are like me. They are scared of the God they worship and the hell they are avoiding. That fear controls them and it is what has kept them bound to the same crippling lifestyle.

My road to awareness has been very slow and gradual. When I moved out I had no idea how indoctrinated I was. My heart aches for them because I understand what they must overcome before they will be whole. Many of them never will be. I'm not a fan of their beliefs, or way they raise their children, or how they hope to shape the political world. I hate thinking back to when I was like them. I've believed and said some horrible things I can't take back. As disgusting as many of them are, they are victims of brainwashing and they don't even know it. They are hypocritical bigots, but they are still human beings and I want the same things for them as I do anyone else. I want them to be at peace with themselves and love the people around them. I want them to be free.

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

We have had this discussion many times over the years. I'll repeat what I have said previously.

Recognition by a brainwashed person that something is wrong often requires a precipitating event that is very hurtful to them or someone they love that they are no longer willing to excuse (unless a person is rebellious/independent by nature and the brainwashing never actually "took"). Those who leave high-control groups like the FLDS, Jehovah Witnesses, etc., don't just up and leave suddenly but often have periods of cognitive dissonance and internal conflict before belief fades and they take action to get out. They pay a high cost for leaving but usually consider their freedom worth it.

The thing with the Duggars, and probably the Bateseses, is that they are extremely comfortable with their life situation. There is no reason to question anything, or motivation to rock the boat. They live in an echo chamber and have rationalized away the wrong done to them within their families.  Our criticism of them matters none because they are smug and holy, while we are heathens.

It is disheartening to see an ever growing army of culture warriors being born who will be indoctrinated to support theocracy, including working against a woman's right to choose. I certainly hope their eyes open at some point. But I'm not holding my breath.

Sorry to see that this discussion has prompted VelociRapture to deactivate.

 

Yeah, the way that VR was attacked was ridiculous.

And a million loves, SB, to the rest of the comment.

[treehugger]

I feel like the nursery blow up wasn't really about the nursery at all. I kind of get both sides. Being BEC to a postpartum woman is harsh. But I think the adorable nursery and consistently pretty pictures and the subsequent positive reactions are just so indicative of the JinJer threads. They have their marketing down to a tee. Beautiful pictures and nothing too substantial, which means that a lot of the JinJer threads are full of fluff. They post a picture, and most of the comments are exclaiming over her great style, and those shoes! (and they must be slightly more liberal than the Duggars because fundies =frumpers, and Jeremy lived "wild" and then converted ), with the occasional, too bad about Jeremy's attitude/sermons. But for the most part JinJer are weirdly immune to the criticism heaped on the other Duggar offspring (Jinger especially). 

Little Felicity is barely a week old and already has how many articles written about her? I mean, I google her name, and I can see pictures of her bedroom! She has how many articles written about her already? We have criticized Benessa heavily for using their children for fame and money. JinJer and Jeremy are apparently going to do the same thing, but here we are chatting about that cute little nursery. 

And Jill still gets a lot of comments about why she hasn't tried to better herself by pursuing nursing and other higher education, while being the primary caregiver to two toddler boys and an adult child. Meanwhile Jinger had a year baby-free after marriage to a supposedly supportive man who was going to be better for her, in which she had ample time to take a course or two, and do something with her life and yet.... I have no fucking clue what she did in that year except shop and look pretty. Basically the perfect 50's wife. And yet, people seem to have no desire to discuss that. So yeah. I get the frustration. 

[justoneoftwo]

10 minutes ago, treehugger said:

And Jill still gets a lot of comments about why she hasn't tried to better herself by pursuing nursing and other higher education, while being the primary caregiver to two toddler boys and an adult child. Meanwhile Jinger had a year baby-free after marriage to a supposedly supportive man who was going to be better for her, in which she had ample time to take a course or two, and do something with her life and yet.... I have no fucking clue what she did in that year except shop and look pretty. Basically the perfect 50's wife. And yet, people seem to have no desire to discuss that. So yeah. I get the frustration. 

I get the frustration, but I will say one difference between Jill and Jinger is that Jill told us she wanted to be a midwife or a nurse.  She told us she had goals and gave them up.  Jinger seems to have reached her goals, so I don't get as frustrated that she isn't trying to reach them (I get frustrated with other things, but am willing to give her time).  I think the no nursing thing with Jill is partly people just being sad for her.

[singsingsing]

8 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I feel like the nursery blow up wasn't really about the nursery at all. I kind of get both sides. Being BEC to a postpartum woman is harsh. But I think the adorable nursery and consistently pretty pictures and the subsequent positive reactions are just so indicative of the JinJer threads. They have their marketing down to a tee. Beautiful pictures and nothing too substantial, which means that a lot of the JinJer threads are full of fluff. They post a picture, and most of the comments are exclaiming over her great style, and those shoes! (and they must be slightly more liberal than the Duggars because fundies =frumpers, and Jeremy lived "wild" and then converted ), with the occasional, too bad about Jeremy's attitude/sermons. But for the most part JinJer are weirdly immune to the criticism heaped on the other Duggar offspring (Jinger especially). 

Little Felicity is barely a week old and already has how many articles written about her? I mean, I google her name, and I can see pictures of her bedroom! She has how many articles written about her already? We have criticized Benessa heavily for using their children for fame and money. JinJer and Jeremy are apparently going to do the same thing, but here we are chatting about that cute little nursery. 

And Jill still gets a lot of comments about why she hasn't tried to better herself by pursuing nursing and other higher education, while being the primary caregiver to two toddler boys and an adult child. Meanwhile Jinger had a year baby-free after marriage to a supposedly supportive man who was going to be better for her, in which she had ample time to take a course or two, and do something with her life and yet.... I have no fucking clue what she did in that year except shop and look pretty. Basically the perfect 50's wife. And yet, people seem to have no desire to discuss that. So yeah. I get the frustration. 

But this just isn't the case. Trust me, I know, the fawning over Jinger and Jeremy drives me crazy too! But it seems to drive a lot of people crazy, because there are constant reminders about their shitty beliefs, discussions about Jeremy's church and what he's preaching, speculation about the damage that has been done to Jinger by her fundamentalist upbringing... People (myself included) are constantly in the JinJer threads warning about being blinded by the pretty pictures/marketing, expressing doubt about how 'fundie-lite' they actually are, and criticizing them for their beliefs and actions.

We've just gone through a thread where they've had criticism heaped on them for everything from outsourcing their nursery decorating and giving birth in a different city, to letting Michelle have her picture taken holding the baby and standing barefoot indoors.

Ben and Jessa have been parents since 2015. Jinger literally just gave birth. Don't worry, they will be criticized for using their child(ren) for fame and fortune. Just give it a little time. It's pretty natural, immediately after pictures and articles like these come out, for people to focus solely on appearances and express hope for change (and even then, there are those of us who pop in to rain on the parade and remind everyone that they're fundies and/or point out various concerns and issues). Usually it doesn't take too long for the criticism (BEC or warranted) to set in. And then we get arguments between the people who really in their hearts just want to fangirl them vs. the people who want to focus mainly on the dangers of fundamentalism.

Jinger has gotten a TON of criticism for not pursuing an education, career, or other activities for herself! This has been discussed over and over and over again, and continues to be discussed (and I'm absolutely not complaining, because it's a VERY valid thing to discuss). I am very sorry that @VelociRapture left, because she was one of the champions of raining on the Jinger-Jeremy love fest, but there are plenty of us still here who've kept at it for years now, even if we sometimes disagree about what constitutes actual criticism vs. BEC.