Dillards 45: The Grift Goes On

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

What I worry about with Jill is that her brain is SO steeped in kool-aid that she isn't evaluating this situation correctly.  

Izzy's birth SHOULD have been a wake up call. But I feel like Jill interpreted it as "God brought me though that, so He'll bring me through it again" and did the EXACT SAME THING with Sam.  

Sam seemed to have a rougher go.  But even though THAT should be a wake up call, I feel Jill will interpret it as "God brought me through it AGAIN!  He is testing my faith, but he will always bring me through!" and will do the EXACT SAME THING with the next child.  

Jill doesn't know how to critically examine situations to correct/change behavior to prevent certain outcomes.  That's a skill that was NEVER taught at Duggar Academy.  She's going to keep on doing the SAME THING and just praying she gets lucky until an authority figure (like Derick or JB/Michelle) step in.  She's like a young child in this area, and she can thank her parents for that.  

And I just hope that someone does step in.  Before her luck runs out.  

Sadly MEchelle didn't get a clue until she could no longer conceive. Josie wasn't enough to stop her Jubilee DYING wasn't enough to stop her from trying again, it was just that her body finally said NOPE no more, that she stopped having kids.  Sadly it is going to take one of the Dugger sisters or SIL dying in childbirth before they would reconsider and even then they may not.  These people are so stubborn, they would rather die than admit that maybe they did something wrong.

[Drala]

3 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

One problem is that its hard to find answers that are not throwing money at the problem.  And its hard to say something about needing more than that, without some stupid person thinking you mean cut funding.  Funding is important, but its not all there is and shouldn't be all there is.

Where I was going on the comment about "throwing  money at the problem and getting on with business as usual" was this:  Race/gender and poverty are so highly correlated you can't deal with poverty without looking at racism/sexism and the structures that support. reinforce and confound all three.   

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Yep. In my IFBx days we were told "Unless you're dead or in the hospital, you'd better be in church every time the doors are open." My younger sibs went to church with chicken pox (which they also caught there).

Former Catholic- we never, ever missed mass. Part of vacation was finding the nearest church and available mass times. it didn't matter if we were at Disney or camping, we found a mass to attend. I guess hospitalization would have been a reason to miss, but illness was not. I think my mom believed that we would straight to hell if he missed mass.

[justoneoftwo]

2 minutes ago, Drala said:

Where I was going on the comment about "throwing  money at the problem and getting on with business as usual" was this:  Race/gender and poverty are so highly correlated you can't deal with poverty without looking at racism/sexism and the structures that support. reinforce and confound all three.   

I agree, thats part of the issue that should be looked at.  I'm amazed at how many people just can't.  Sorry if I wasn't clear, I think your point was very well put.

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, ElToro said:

This was on the BBC yesterday- shocking stats.

Why do so many women die

US has maternal mortality rates that are rising and are above other countries (such as Iran, Thailand, Vietnam) but the stats are particularly shocking when broken into different ethnicities. While white women have 13 deaths per 100,000 (even high compared to other rich nations), black women have rates of 44 per 100,000. Truly appalling and WTF is going on...?

 

On another note, I have had both a hospital birth and a home birth.... All good, even with an emergency haemmorhage afterwards. Where I live, the (real, qualified) midwives come to you whether you are at home or the hospital. Their expertise plus a quick ambulance ride to the hospital meant I was ok.... Mind you, lack of blood meant I did have weirdly white gums for about a week afterwards.

Black women in America also have a much higher risk of having a premature birth than white women. In general, about one in ten babies are born prematurely in the US, but that number jumps to (I believe) one in six when you look specifically at black women. Which is a really massive problem because preemies can face so many health complications that can affect them for the rest of their lives - we were ridiculously lucky that our 34 weeker appears to have escaped any health complications because it easily could have gone differently (and it does for so many families.) Ensuring each person is given the best possible chance of reaching their full potential starts with making sure they are born as close to term as possible. 

It’s a complicated issue that involves income inequality, access to adequate care, education, and racism among many, many other factors. I am in no way an expert in anything other than living the Preemie/NICU life though, so I won’t try to explain further. I’d probably make a complete ass of myself if I tried. 

(And for the record, I’m white. So I’m not an expert on what it’s like to be a black mother who gives birth prematurely either.)

[Iamtheway]

Me and my mum would probably have both died if she had given birth in a less modern hospital then the one where I was born (almost 40 years ago now). Emergency c-section and the cord wrapped three times around my neck. A home birth would definitly have killed us. And then eight of my favourite people in this world would not exist now.

Yes, I counted myself. 

[justoneoftwo]

43 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Black women in America also have a much higher risk of having a premature birth than white women. In general, about one in ten babies are born prematurely in the US, but that number jumps to (I believe) one in six when you look specifically at black women. Which is a really massive problem because preemies can face so many health complications that can affect them for the rest of their lives - we were ridiculously lucky that our 34 weeker appears to have escaped any health complications because it easily could have gone differently (and it does for so many families.) Ensuring each person is given the best possible chance of reaching their full potential starts with making sure they are born as close to term as possible. 

It’s a complicated issue that involves income inequality, access to adequate care, education, and racism among many, many other factors. I am in no way an expert in anything other than living the Preemie/NICU life though, so I won’t try to explain further. I’d probably make a complete ass of myself if I tried. 

(And for the record, I’m white. So I’m not an expert on what it’s like to be a black mother who gives birth prematurely either.)

Do you have any sources that discuss this?  I would be really interested in learning more about the causes, and consequences. 

[Jinder Roles]

Honestly, America needs to rethink it's entire structural system and come to terms with the horrors in committed. This country prospered for a long time, and it cost millions of people their lives. And before you say it's the past, history is the present. What happens in the past, directly affects the present. 

Prime example: The number of miscarriages of black women has gone up by 58% in Flint Michigan. The fertility rate also declined by 12%. The number of children with lead poisoning in their blood doubled since the city changed its water source in 2014. 

Flint is a predominantly black and low-economic city, compared to its surrounding areas. I am still in shock that the city/state/government effectively poisoned an entire city (filled with minority/low-income residents) and there have been no serious consequences. This is just one example of the shit that this country has done to its citizens. 

Article for reference here: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/11/we-now-known-just-how-bad-the-flint-water-crisis-was-for-pregnant-women/

 

[Drala]

https://www.thenation.com/article/whats-killing-americas-black-infants/

There's evidence for something called racism induced stress as a cause of high black infant mortality.

[ElToro]

The Flint case is beyond incompetent - it's inhumane. Those kids..... And the repercussions for the 'lucky' ones (who made it past gestation), their families and community are untold.

And I can well-believe that the effect of stress on people, especially those who have experienced constant, high-level stress throughout their childhoods, is only just really being understood. It contributes to so many long-term health and addiction issues.

As all the posters have previously said, it's the unwillingness of the government, and society in general, to even start looking at the stats, let alone the underlying context, that is so awful. They literally don't give a fuck that kids are dying.

 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

Do you have any sources that discuss this?  I would be really interested in learning more about the causes, and consequences. 

March of Dimes pdf.

https://www.npr.org/2011/07/08/137652226/-the-race-gap

Link to NPR. I think this one is from 2011. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/amp/preterm-birth-rates-have-increased-u-s-n778576

This one is from June of this year. It states black women have a preterm birth rate 50% higher than white women. That’s absolutely ridiculous and completely unacceptable. 

https://www.cdc.gov/features/prematurebirth/index.html

Information from the CDC. It was last updated November 6, 2017.

Hope this helped! 

ETA: The March of Dimes pdf is actually 8 pages. I’m not sure why only one page is popping up. If you google “black women premature birth” it should pop up as the first option. 

[immodest_countenance]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Former Catholic- we never, ever missed mass. Part of vacation was finding the nearest church and available mass times. it didn't matter if we were at Disney or camping, we found a mass to attend. I guess hospitalization would have been a reason to miss, but illness was not. I think my mom believed that we would straight to hell if he missed mass.

Current Catholic - We never miss mass either, including vacations, but if we have so much as a cold our asses are sitting at home on Sunday. It has less to do with how good you feel or don't feel and more to do with not spreading illness among some of the more vulnerable parishoners. What I can sleep off and take some nyquil for could be life-threatening to someone who is elderly, young, or has a weakened immune system. It betrays the virtue of charity to knowingly go to mass while sick

[FleeJanaFree]

I made the mistake of looking at Miss Cathys likes on twitter. She supports Roy Moore. blech. I don't understand some conservatives. Gay people will allegedly molest your kids. Transgender people will allegedly molest your kids. But what's the big deal about an adult predator violating tennage girls with sexual assault and harassment/being banned from shopping malls/ calling high schools to set up a date,  Amiright? He's totally legit. He's totally better than a democrat or any other republican choice. 

 

[cascarones]

Mr. C's brother was a micro-preemie, spent months in NICU at a hospital over an hour from where they lived at the time and since it was so touch and go at least one parent was always there. He does have health challenges that prevent him from playing sports or stressing his heart or lungs too much. Mr. C is Chinese American and from what his mother has told me there is a much higher risk for premature birth in all immigrants due to dietary inefficiencies when they were young that affect pregnancy and long term health, but they're mostly left out of studies or in the other category.  Or the studies compare long term health from Chinese adoptee children to those born to women who'd immigrated to America, I'll have to ask her over the hols about the latest ones. She's in research and since I lost our baby is dealing with it by digging into the studies in a lot of depth for cross generational effects.

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, immodest_countenance said:

Current Catholic - We never miss mass either, including vacations, but if we have so much as a cold our asses are sitting at home on Sunday. It has less to do with how good you feel or don't feel and more to do with not spreading illness among some of the more vulnerable parishoners. What I can sleep off and take some nyquil for could be life-threatening to someone who is elderly, young, or has a weakened immune system. It betrays the virtue of charity to knowingly go to mass while sick

I don't see the virtue in exposing others to your germs.  Nor do I think an all loving, all knowing diety would be so petty as to find fault in someone staying home from church when unwell.   

It really bothers me when I'm out somewhere, and someone is hacking and coughing.  How do I know if it's allergies, a smokers cough, or a contagious cold, bronchitis, etc.?  

[Glasgowghirl]

Babies don't have to be born 24 hours after their water breaks, my sister's waters broke 10 weeks early and she didn't have my nephew until 8 weeks later. She was monitored twice a week and had extra ultrasounds but both her and baby were healthy. We drove her to the hospital as soon as it happened though and the hospital staff were brilliant. Jill didn't make sure her and Isreal were ok until 3 days later, she is lucky that both her and Izzy survived. My family were blessed that my nephew wasn't premature and their were no complications and even the doctors were shocked she didn't go into labour as it is rare for it to happen. 

[llg1234]

Samuel being cute. I wonder if the kids are still sick or if that's just a regular runny nose.

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Or teething, the way he is gnawing on that toy. He's a cutie. 

[candygirl200413]

I'm going to look real hard but there's a really good in-depth mini-documentary about POC women and dying at birth. It was so informative because I honestly never heard really about it (even while starting my MPH this past August). It has to be in deep in my bookmarks but I'll definitely share the link as soon as I find it if anyone is interested!

[SorenaJ]

@VelociRapture Can you briefly summarise the sources you linked to? It is mainly genetic reasons why black babies are more often born prematurely or it is more social reasons (like racism induced stress that was mentioned earlier)? It is interesting in a sad way.

Samuel is so cute. He looks a wee bit like Spurgeon.  

[ElToro]

6 hours ago, cascarones said:

 She's in research and since I lost our baby is dealing with it by digging into the studies in a lot of depth for cross generational effects.

Firstly, I am sorry for your loss.  There was also the Dutch Hunger Winter study, which they were able to study the long term effects of starvation experienced by pregnant women during world war 2. The stress (lack of nutrition) experienced by babies while they were in the uterus had implications for health much later in life. I seem to remember that it also linked starvation in mothers to infertility issues in their offspring. (I was interested because my mother experienced childhood starvation/trauma and I often wonder what other issues will crop up for me .... and my kids.)

Epigenetics is fascinating...... with huge implications for communities who have experienced collective trauma. 

[RainbowSky]

5 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Babies don't have to be born 24 hours after their water breaks, my sister's waters broke 10 weeks early and she didn't have my nephew until 8 weeks later. She was monitored twice a week and had extra ultrasounds but both her and baby were healthy. We drove her to the hospital as soon as it happened though and the hospital staff were brilliant. Jill didn't make sure her and Isreal were ok until 3 days later, she is lucky that both her and Izzy survived. My family were blessed that my nephew wasn't premature and their were no complications and even the doctors were shocked she didn't go into labour as it is rare for it to happen. 

Keeping things the hell out of the moms vagina is helpful when this stuff happens, too! 

[Sky with diamonds]

6 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Samuel being cute. I wonder if the kids are still sick or if that's just a regular runny nose.

 

At least he isn't chewing or licking a fan!

Gosh, he is a cutie!

[MiddleAgedLady]

Well, I guess Jill is showing reality! A kid with a runny nose-yuck! 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, Sky with diamonds said:

At least he isn't chewing or licking a fan!

Gosh, he is a cutie!

I have to admit the fan licking didn't bother me so much as I had a licker baby/toddler #2 licked/chewed on everything Dear Rufus, when she was about 3 I was at Sam's club and looking at something in the meat counter and there is miss thang dragging her tongue down the meat cooler. I remember shrieking at her DON'T LICK THAT! Then thought to myself "that is number 327 on my list of things I never thought I'd say". When my sisters kids started doing weird shit I just shook my head and said "welcome to motherhood the land of weird things"

If you can believe it the child didn't get sick, and rarely does, I attribute it to her licking nasty things like grocery carts and meat counters, no matter how hard I tried she was a persistent sneaky little thing.  

1 hour ago, MiddleAgedLady said:

Well, I guess Jill is showing reality! A kid with a runny nose-yuck! 

Snot much like shit happens. Though a boogery nose was/is a pet peeve of mine, those kids that ALWAYS have a crusty boogery nose, so nasty. Especially now when they have Booger wipes, we used to have to use baby wipes or a wet rag to keep that thing clean.