At least 20 dead, 100 injured at shooting on Las Vegas Strip

[RosyDaisy]

A rich white man with no criminal history or known mental issues did this. We won't get any real answers.

[GreyhoundFan]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

BTW, don't most people use gas for heating in America? Or is that not energy? Also, isn't capitalism the American way? Wouldn't that mean that competition - solar, nuclear, whatever else - would be the American way? 

And Hillary lost so what does that have to do with anything? 

The fuel source for heating varies by area. In my area, most people use electric heat or natural gas. Some use solar, which I'd be thrilled to do, except that I'm in a condo. In the area I where I lived in the 1980s-1990s, oil is used. And, I'm originally from coal country... Capitalism is supposed to be the American way, but in this day and age, it's really more about the monopolies and big business. Many Americans freak out about nuclear. And solar is for those "left wing nutjobs" (note that I think solar and wind are awesome).

And, Hillary is alive, so everything bad is her fault. After she passes away, everything will still be her fault, because, you know, her emails and Benghazi.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

First off, let me say that I get where you're coming from about killing animals. I've been a vegetarian for years and since the beginning of this year I've gone that one step further by becoming a vegan. I'm also anti-death penalty, because I don't believe in killing people either.

Second, I would most certainly be the last person to say that anyone shooting guns is by definition a bad person, as I used to be club champion at our local shooting range in my younger years. I don't own any guns myself though. Not only because it's not that easy in my country, but mainly because I just don't see the point. 

Lastly, although I am of the very firm belief that life starts at conception, I am also very much pro-choice. My choice does not have to be yours, and vice versa, so to speak.

That said, I think you don't quite get the point my post is trying to make. It's not about abortion vs gun ownership (or gun owners being bad people). It is about the glaring difference in regulated control on these issues. Why is abortion so strictly regulated and is there such a lack of gun control regulations? If we believe that life is sacred, isn't it rather hypocritical to regulate the one, and not the other? Either strictly regulate both, or neither. 

That was the point of my post. 

 

I understood. One could also look at it as regulation in BOTH things should be limited. Less government kinda thing. I am all for keeping the government out of women's health choices...so if I argue this way, I would be arguing against gun regulations.

 

It's a tough one. Is it the bigger picture or individual issues?

 

ETA: Sorry it took so long to respond to this.

[Cartmann99]

2 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

And, Hillary is alive, so everything bad is her fault. After she passes away, everything will still be her fault, because, you know, her emails and Benghazi.

*dons tinfoil hat* I honestly think part of the reason congress let CHIP expire, was because it came into existence during the Clinton administration and was heavily supported by Hillary Clinton.

I remember conservatives complaining because Hillary didn't take Bill's name when they got married, and then after she did and became our FLOTUS, they bitched because she wanted to do things outside of the traditional first lady duties. 

I guess after Hillary dies, they will just hate Chelsea and her family twice as much to make up for it. 

[MarblesMom]

20 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

People in general seem to be kind of taking the attitude that more guns=worse intentions, which obviously could be true to a certain extent, but he took it way past the point where there was any chance he could possibly use all of them

He only had two arms and two hands.  I am stunned he needed a room of weapons, as one can only do so much with one human body (before the PD showed up).

[OtterRuletheWorld]

He only had two arms and two hands.  I am stunned he needed a room of weapons, as one can only do so much with one human body (before the PD showed up).

It is possible he was planning the whole thing to go on longer and planning for hot, jammed guns. It still doesn't make sense to have so many, because he could have just as easily rotated between a few...so it is still excessive. If he had 6(ish) I wouldn't think it was strange, but this is weird. Especially if he planned on fleeing.

[feministxtian]

Weighing in from Las Vegas here. 

I live 15-20 minutes from the Mandalay Bay resort. The scene was utter chaos. At first, concert goers and performers thought fireworks were being set off (not unusual on the strip). It took a little bit to realize what was going on. The response of ordinary people was flat out amazing. One guy actually stole someone's truck and piled in as many wounded as he could and took off for one of the hospitals, and came back and got more, BEFORE the ambulances got there. The final (well, as of today) total is 59 dead and 527 wounded. All the hospitals in the area were overwhelmed. The lines for blood donations stretched out for about half a mile, at one time there was a 6 hour wait. 

The shooter There is some talk that he was losing his grip on reality. According to Sheriff Lombardo, he had cameras placed so he could watch the hallways. He shot himself just as Metro was gaining entrance to the suite. The motive is still unknown and anyone who says different is speculating and needs to shut the fuck up. 

The city is reeling from this. We've heard all the conspiracy theories and bullshit. I ask people to STOP doing that. We don't know WHY this idiot chose to do what he did. 600 families are affected by this, along with Metro, the EMTs, the doctors and nurses and others. There will be more info as time goes by...but until then, the only reliable info is anything coming DIRECTLY from LVMPD. Anything else is suspect. Please don't repeat rumors or bullshit...what happened is bad enough...

And the fucking orangutan shut down the fucking airport and strip today...he couldn't land up at Nellis which would have been less disruptive. We don't need him. We can take care of ourselves. 

[GreyhoundFan]

8 hours ago, feministxtian said:

And the fucking orangutan shut down the fucking airport and strip today...he couldn't land up at Nellis which would have been less disruptive. We don't need him. We can take care of ourselves. 

Thank you for your local LV perspective of this horrible situation. Please take care of yourself and your loved ones.

As to the TT, he has to disrupt as much as possible. How else would he get attention? I'm sure his leghumpers are pleased and saying it shows he "cares" about Nevada citizens. Of course, we know that's not the case.

[47of74]

2 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Thank you for your local LV perspective of this horrible situation. Please take care of yourself and your loved ones.

As to the TT, he has to disrupt as much as possible. How else would he get attention? I'm sure his leghumpers are pleased and saying it shows he "cares" about Nevada citizens. Of course, we know that's not the case.

Of course he "cares" because of all the Republican voters in Nevada.  We see how fast he responds when dealing with parties he doesn't "care" about. 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I think it is weird for people who are so used to having the media bark out half truths or whatever news they can obtain it twist, within hours, to now be dealing with the opposite. I am not saying people don't need to calm down and that we should not trust the LEOs and the investigation. Right now we are left with a lot of unanswered questions and wanting answers for a horrible situation.

That doesn't mean we can't ask questions or discuss. It is one thing to throw around possible theories and discuss with others. Speculation is going to happen, but try to stick with what we know when we discuss.

For example, we now know he may have likely wanted to flee, according to Sheriff Lombardo. So, what happened to change that? He seemed to have planned this out pretty well, so what happened that made him change his mind?

The story of the Marine who stole a truck to get as many people to the hospital as possible is one that I keep reminding myself of. At this point in time, it is an even more important part of the story. We don't know what Paddock's motives were, but we do know that no matter what the media is telling us, Americans are not divided as we may think. In a time of need, a crisis and complete chaos, nobody cared about political affiliation, religion, race, or anything. Human survival seems to include helping other humans to survive.

[onekidanddone]

31 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

Of course he "cares" because of all the Republican voters in Nevada.  We see how fast he responds when dealing with parties he doesn't "care" about. 

If PR is any indication of how he responds to people who are not his supporters, I think we know. He will jut toss paper products into the crowd and fly away,

[OtterRuletheWorld]

If PR is any indication of how he responds to people who are not his supporters, I think we know. He will jut toss paper products into the crowd and fly away,

Have we seen if any victims refused to see him?

[onekidanddone]

34 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Have we seen if any victims refused to see him?

I'm assuming there are many, but his handlers keep them away. Notice how where ever he goes we  never see any protesters? High security and amazing, tremendous, best screening ever or so people are saying. I wouldn't put it  past him to have plants in the crowd.  Remember how he made a big deal that all the protesters on Jan 21 were 'fake' and were paid to be there?  Well he always accuses others of what he himself is doing.

[Rachel333]

I've actually only heard positive things about Trump's visit to the victims in Las Vegas. I saw an interview with a Democratic congresswoman who said he was really good with the victims and seemed like anyone else there to comfort people rather than it just being like a publicity stunt. Huge difference between that and how he acted in Puerto Rico. I wonder what the difference could possibly be...

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I'm assuming there are many, but his handlers keep them away. Notice how where ever he goes we  never see any protesters? High security and amazing, tremendous, best screening ever or so people are saying. I wouldn't put it  past him to have plants in the crowd.  Remember how he made a big deal that all the protesters on Jan 21 were 'fake' and were paid to be there?  Well he always accuses others of what he himself is doing.

Hmmmm, I dunno if I am willing to claim any of these victims are plants. That seems like speculation that could very well be undermining the very real tragedy that the victims were part of.

I've actually only heard positive things about Trump's visit to the victims in Las Vegas. I saw an interview with a Democratic congresswoman who said he was really good with the victims and seemed like anyone else there to comfort people rather than it just being like a publicity stunt. Huge difference between that and how he acted in Puerto Rico. I wonder what the difference could possibly be...

Yeah, I have been looking and only turning up positive things. I can't fairly slam him if victims are appreciating the visits. It is, after all, what an American leader typically does after something like this and he did seem to care at the moment. Like Trump or not, I am doubtful that an attack on American citizens is something that doesn't make a Presidents blood boil a bit.

Maybe this is the time we direct out hate at the shooter.

[onekidanddone]

19 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Hmmmm, I dunno if I am willing to claim any of these victims are plants. That seems like speculation that could very well be undermining the very real tragedy that the victims were part of.

Ah I see how I could have come across that way.  To clarify, I didn't mean the victims were plants.  I was referring to the great cheering 'crowd' who were greeting him in PR, TX and FLA. Maybe not plant exactly, but a well picked group of people.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

46 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Ah I see how I could have come across that way.  To clarify, I didn't mean the victims were plants.  I was referring to the great cheering 'crowd' who were greeting him in PR, TX and FLA. Maybe not plant exactly, but a well picked group of people.

I understand now. Sorry for reading that wrong. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were being malicious.

I did find the guy who stood for him oddly heartwarming. I don't know if it is because the guy just witnessed and experienced an incredibly terrifying thing and is a victim of a mass shooting, so any joy he feels makes me happy, or if it is because when I watched the video, Trump reacted well and that made me feel good, or what it was.  It is probably more that people are being good to one another DESPITE the tragedy.

 

[GrumpyGran]

16 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Gotcha. Sorry for reading that wrong. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were being malicious.

I did find the guy who stood for him oddly heartwarming. I don't know if it is because the guy just witnessed and experienced an incredibly terrifying thing and is a victim of a mass shooting, so any joy he feels makes me happy, or if it is because when I watched the video, Trump reacted well and that made me feel good, or what it was.  It is probably more that people are being good to one another DESPITE the tragedy.

 

It does seem that he really put some effort into comforting the victims. We know Melania has this sort of thing down pat and I think anyone would appreciate knowing their president made the time to stop by and ask how they were doing. Maybe Melania gave him some pointers.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

1 minute ago, GrumpyGran said:

It does seem that he really put some effort into comforting the victims. We know Melania has this sort of thing down pat and I think anyone would appreciate knowing their president made the time to stop by and ask how they were doing. Maybe Melania gave him some pointers.

Yeah, Melania certainly shines in moments like this. I do think the two of them have lived lives that have been in a different kind of spotlight than a politician, so that may be why they do better at this sort of thing.  There is more of a reason to stage a political show like this than a "celebrity" show of support. Clearly they now fall into the political category now, but that hasn't been the case for their entire lives. It is probably better to go with what they know, because that will seem more heartfelt.

[Cartmann99]

I appreciated the fact that Melania wore subdued clothing while visiting hospital patients in Vegas. 

[feministxtian]

Las Vegas/Clark County is much more liberal than the rest of the state. I haven't heard/read much about cheeto's visit. I've been staying away from the news just to keep my own sanity. Things really hit home after talking to a friend last night. A friend of hers was here for the concert and, well, she and her husband were both among the dead. One of our pastors is a LVMPD chaplain...and he was at Sunrise Hospital as they brought victims in, including an officer who didn't make it. Matt was the one who had to tell the officer's wife that he didn't survive his injuries. Watching Matt, who's normally pretty funny, snarky and goofy, cry like a baby over that just tore me to shreds. 

There are no easy answers to this. It still seems like a bad dream. The city is more subdued still, the south end of the strip is still closed off, there are still investigations going on. The girlfriend claims to have no knowledge of his plans. 

[GrumpyGran]

16 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Las Vegas/Clark County is much more liberal than the rest of the state. I haven't heard/read much about cheeto's visit. I've been staying away from the news just to keep my own sanity. Things really hit home after talking to a friend last night. A friend of hers was here for the concert and, well, she and her husband were both among the dead. One of our pastors is a LVMPD chaplain...and he was at Sunrise Hospital as they brought victims in, including an officer who didn't make it. Matt was the one who had to tell the officer's wife that he didn't survive his injuries. Watching Matt, who's normally pretty funny, snarky and goofy, cry like a baby over that just tore me to shreds. 

There are no easy answers to this. It still seems like a bad dream. The city is more subdued still, the south end of the strip is still closed off, there are still investigations going on. The girlfriend claims to have no knowledge of his plans. 

@feministxtian, this is obviously effecting you so deeply, which is no surprise, your city is in shock and mourning. Keeping talking to us if it is helping, we're here listening.

[feministxtian]

This is #VegasSTRONG

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/50-las-vegas-businesses-raising-money-helping-those-affected/

We moved here three years ago. We went through some seriously tough times after we moved here but we discovered there's more to Las Vegas than the bright lights of the strip. This city is amazing. Since so few are "natives", you are immediately welcomed into the community. What happened last Sunday has turned the whole city upside down. I mean, the threat is known and is realized by everyone...heck, it's almost a joke at times, but we're always aware that we're a target for those who would harm as many as possible. Hotels have literally thousands of rooms per hotel, millions of people come to visit us yearly. I mean, when I lived on the east coast, I had hoped to maybe one day come here for a visit, just to see what I'd seen on TV. Now, it's literally just a few miles from me. I'd seen documentaries on the Hoover Dam...I'd always wanted to see it. Now it's an hour away. We're thinking of going back later this year...it's just very cool in person. 

I just get SO pissed at the bullshit conspiracy theories I see on the 'net and TV. That's why I keep saying not to believe anything unless it comes from Metro. Yeah, some of the cops are shits and utter assholes, but the ones I know are crushed and hurting (there's quite a few that belong to our church). Their motto is "Serve and Protect"...they weren't able to protect anyone that night and it is hurting them. One EMT I know, who was a medic in Iraq, said Sunday night was worse than anything he saw in combat. Unfreaking believable. But...Vegas is strong. Life goes on and we're trying to go back to "normal". As far as I know, no events have been cancelled although most have evacuation plans in place. 

So...if you're thinking of coming here...come on! 

[Howl]

This weekend through the following weekend is the Austin City Limits music festival; there will about 75,000 people a day listening to music in the city.  I head on the radio yesterday that refunds will be given to those who want to surrender their tickets; after Las Vegas at least some people are becoming paranoid about attending large gatherings.  I seriously doubt many people will stay away for that reason, though.   

@feministxtian, heartfelt thoughts to you are yours who have been affected by this tragedy. 

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Like Trump or not, I am doubtful that an attack on American citizens is something that doesn't make a Presidents blood boil a bit.

I think it might actually depend on the citizens. Trump showed little concern for people run down by white supremacists. If someone had gunned down tons of people at a liberal rally, I really doubt it would make his blood boil even a tiny bit. If this had been a group of Americans who just happened to also be Muslim, I also think his reaction would be different. 

Yes, Trump behaved in a fairly appropriate manner this time, which shows he is capable of doing that. Which means that all the times he has reacted to tragedy inappropriately he was doing that by choice.