At least 20 dead, 100 injured at shooting on Las Vegas Strip

[Rachel333]

As mentioned upthread, though, an image of the dead shooter has already been leaked. I was really surprised by that.

[Maggie Mae]

4 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Adding to the weirdness of all of this, there has been at least one photo leaked of Paddock after killed himself.

This brings me back to the fact that we have yet to see any security footage, have any news of his motives, etc. Just one photo of the guy after he killed himself. It is odd.

I really don't think there's a huge conspiracy a float or anything, and most of the "inconsistencies" can be chalked up to obvious things - the calls about shooters at NYNY and other Casinos could be people calling in when they heard the gun shots and saw police; the two broken windows give him two angles and none of the gun shots were overlapping so it was a single shooter, the sounds bounce off the large buildings, they don't search luggage at hotels and I can't imagine anyone would want that. Especially in Vegas, so many people buy booze at CVS or Costco (and pack it in luggage) to save money. The guns were legal with illegal modifications (although how on earth people on the internet identified that by sound before the official reports is beyond me), maybe Vegas doesn't want us to know about their security or lack there of which is why security camera footage hasn't been released. 

I do think that if this was a different type of concert and a different shooter, we'd be talking about the effects of the "violent" music. Which is stupid because pop country is exactly like other types of pop music - genero songs about loving money, fame, girls, and modes of transportation. 

[Howl]

10 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

genero songs about loving money, fame, girls, and modes of transportation.

And beer.  Don't forget beer.  Or heartbreak. 

[Maggie Mae]

Just now, Howl said:

And beer.  Don't forget beer.  Or heartbreak. 

And guns. I meant to put guns in my earlier comment. Lots of pop songs, country and other genres that talk about guns. But for some reason one of these types of musics is acceptable in an office and the other is not. 

 

[FundieFarmer]

Hello from an Orlandoan who worked Pulse. I know this is not at all about us. But I wanted to share a few things that have been so, so surreal since yesterday morning. 

My organization has gotten so many requests and has brought counselors back in because it hits so close to home. A few of our team were there already or were scheduled to be there to teach– no joke– tragedy response. One had to hide from the gunfire. Several of us have remarked it has been tragic that another city now has the "worst shooting in America" title. Something should have been done in the year+ since Pulse so that this could never have happened. Why is this happening again?

I feel like Orlando is here with our hands up and empty saying, "Have we taught you nothing? Have all our efforts been for nothing? Have we been begging you to change things for nothing? When will you make a difference? Was our pain for nothing and now you've let it happen to others? Are all of these government meetings and calls to senators and congressmen and grassroots efforts for nothing? When does America get to see a real change?" 

Was it that lawmakers thought it could never be worse than 49 deaths? And now we have 59, will they think it could never get worse than that? What will be the impetus for change? 

This is nauseating. I know it's not about me, it's not about Orlando. But I had hoped what happened to us would have made a difference in preventing this from happening again, however slowly, and it breaks my heart to truly see that it didn't. 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

7 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I really don't think there's a huge conspiracy a float or anything, and most of the "inconsistencies" can be chalked up to obvious things - the calls about shooters at NYNY and other Casinos could be people calling in when they heard the gun shots and saw police; the two broken windows give him two angles and none of the gun shots were overlapping so it was a single shooter, the sounds bounce off the large buildings, they don't search luggage at hotels and I can't imagine anyone would want that. Especially in Vegas, so many people buy booze at CVS or Costco (and pack it in luggage) to save money. The guns were legal with illegal modifications (although how on earth people on the internet identified that by sound before the official reports is beyond me), maybe Vegas doesn't want us to know about their security or lack there of which is why security camera footage hasn't been released. 

I do think that if this was a different type of concert and a different shooter, we'd be talking about the effects of the "violent" music. Which is stupid because pop country is exactly like other types of pop music - genero songs about loving money, fame, girls, and modes of transportation. 

There are a lot of reasons things are going to get confused in such chaos. The things about two possible shooters are not really phasing me because, quite frankly, even if that was the case, which I am not thinking or suggesting it is, I am doubtful we would suddenly hear at this point "Oh yeah, we identified another shooter" because that would NOT go over well for obvious reasons.

As far as packing booze, we bring booze into Vegas hotels all the time, but never have we been told no. We also bring food and cook ourselves once in awhile...use valet, have our groceries and booze delivered to our room. Nobody cares. I still don't want my luggage searched just because I don't. It already annoys me enough when I fly.

I think people who could identify things are just people who like guns.  Most gun nuts have no desire to hurt anyone. When I woke up and my husband told me what happened, then played a video, we had a pretty good idea of what the possibilities were. It isn't like these modifications are complicated. San Bernardino saw this happen as well.

I also heard he recorded himself and staged cameras in the hallway so he could be alerted when the police were headed to his room.

As far as genre of music or kind of person at the concert...I don't think that we can claim that pop music would be blamed on violence. Ariana Grande happened. No matter what, people died. I think it should go without saying, I don't care what type of music they enjoy, they did not deserve to die. I know you are not saying this.  I am adding my thoughts to the conversation.

15 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

And guns. I meant to put guns in my earlier comment. Lots of pop songs, country and other genres that talk about guns. But for some reason one of these types of musics is acceptable in an office and the other is not. 

 

Okay, I am officially curious. Are there really places that don't allow POP music. I always consider that tame. Stuff that is played on Muzak, therefor it is played everywhere. I personally don't like country music (or much "pop" if I am honest) and can't really name any country stars. I do however have a lot of friends who listen to country. Some of those people are really anti-gun and are very left leaning people. They just like country music. I can't explain why because I personally just don't like it, but they seem like stable people who would be fine with pop our country played in the office.

[Rachel333]

I don't think that many people would blame the music itself for this kind of violence, since it's the music fans who are the ones being targeted with violence, not the ones committing the violence. Looking at the demographics of the people attending a concert to see if the shooter may have been targeting a particular group is very different from blaming the music fans.

Now, at least one person has made a really horrible comment about not feeling sorry for the victims because of their likely political beliefs and she was, appropriately, fired for it.

[Maggie Mae]

47 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

As far as packing booze, we bring booze into Vegas hotels all the time, but never have we been told no. We also bring food and cook ourselves once in awhile...use valet, have our groceries and booze delivered to our room. Nobody cares. I still don't want my luggage searched just because I don't. It already annoys me enough when I fly.

We bring our own as well, but the hotels want you to buy their (overpriced) drinks and snacks. When we stayed at the Cosmopolitan, it's the room rate + $25/day for a fridge (the one in the room had snacks and sensors so you couldn't move anything without being charged) + 30/day for "resort fees". I think Aria & Vdara were similar. 

 

47 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I think people who could identify things are just people who like guns.  

I could tell that it was an automatic, but people online had identified it as a bump modification based on the "inconsistent" firing, which I did not hear at all. Probably because I only fire rifles. My SO claims that his knowledge is based on call of duty so anything he had to contribute to the conversation I ignored. He's slightly more familiar with guns than me, owning a .38 and a shotgun, but I've fired more often and more recently (sport shooting). I would never claim to know what a gun is by the shots fired, that's some sort of movie talent. 

47 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

As far as genre of music or kind of person at the concert...I don't think that we can claim that pop music would be blamed on violence. Ariana Grande happened. No matter what, people died. I think it should go without saying, I don't care what type of music they enjoy, they did not deserve to die. I know you are not saying this.  I am adding my thoughts to the conversation.

I've heard so much in my life that rap music (and hip-hop, because a lot of people don't know the difference) is violent, only concerned with guns, drugs, and objectifying women. But I think that country has a lot of the same problems.

I'm wondering why no one is saying that this "quiet guy who liked country music and gambling" played too many slot machine games while listening to country music. Because if it had been a younger person who liked a different kind of music, the people who like to make up wild ass accusations would be singing a different story.  (I don't' want them to actually say this. I'm actually hoping the day where random people on TV blame things like video games and music for people's actions is over.) 

 

47 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Okay, I am officially curious. Are there really places that don't allow POP music. 

I listen to stuff on my headphones at work, but others don't. My music is not "appropriate" for the work place, and I consider it to be pop music (others in my workplace consider it to be hip-hop or rap). I really hate modern country music, but that's irrelevant to the conversation about the shooting. No one deserves to die like that. 

29 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I don't think that many people would blame the music itself for this kind of violence, since it's the music fans who are the ones being targeted with violence, not the ones committing the violence. 

The NY Times had a piece on the shooter that described him as a guy who liked gambling and country. If he had been a young person who liked "rap and gambling" the commentary would be different. When Columbine happened, concerned parents blamed Marilyn Manson. 

[Penny]

I am so very sad about this. I have never understood the reason someone would do something so awful. I am wondering how the girlfriend is involved since they found guns at the house they shared? Is it just a coincidence she was out of the country? She had to have known something.

[Rachel333]

41 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

The NY Times had a piece on the shooter that described him as a guy who liked gambling and country. If he had been a young person who liked "rap and gambling" the commentary would be different. When Columbine happened, concerned parents blamed Marilyn Manson. 

Yeah, it makes more sense to talk about music that way when you're talking about the shooter.

What I was saying is that it wouldn't make sense to talk about the victims' music preferences that way. If it had been a rap concert I think people wouldn't necessarily leap to "this shows that rap music causes violence" because it would have been rap fans who were being killed, not the ones doing the killing. The November 15 attacks in Paris included a shooting at an Eagles of Death Metal concert but there weren't really conversations about whether there's a problem with violence in the death metal genre because those fans were the victims, not the perpetrators.

And as far as the shooter's music preferences go, I'm sure you're right that people would react differently if the shooter were a rap fan. I think the big difference there is race, unfortunately.

[GreyhoundFan]

38 minutes ago, Penny said:

I am wondering how the girlfriend is involved since they found guns at the house they shared? Is it just a coincidence she was out of the country? She had to have known something.

I heard today that the shooter had recently wired a large amount of money to the Philippines.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

1 minute ago, GreyhoundFan said:

I heard today that the shooter had recently wired a large amount of money to the Philippines.

Yes, I have been hearing this as well. I believe 100k. The story does keep getting more and more strange.

50 minutes ago, Penny said:

I am so very sad about this. I have never understood the reason someone would do something so awful. I am wondering how the girlfriend is involved since they found guns at the house they shared? Is it just a coincidence she was out of the country? She had to have known something.

I am doubtful it is a coincidence. He also sent 100K to the Philippines, which is where she is right now. I dunno, maybe he just gave her money as a way to take care of herself for a bit?

[GreyhoundFan]

More info from the WaPo: "Police say Las Vegas gunman planned ‘extensively,’ used cameras to monitor police as they approached"

Spoiler

LAS VEGAS — Authorities in Las Vegas said Tuesday that the gunman who killed least 59 people at a country music festival “extensively” planned the massacre, placing cameras in his suite and the nearby hallway so he could see when police officers were closing in.

“It was pre-planned, extensively, and I’m pretty sure that he evaluated everything that he did in his actions, which is troublesome,” Joseph Lombardo, the sheriff of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, said at a briefing Tuesday afternoon.

Lombardo said one of the cameras was hidden in a food service cart in the hallway outside the suite on the 32nd floor. Law enforcement officials said the purpose of that camera was apparently to give the gunman a video feed that would warn him when police were closing in.

Lombardo also said the department has opened an investigation into the unauthorized release of images that show the crime scene, including the bullet-riddled door to the suite used by the gunman, Stephen Paddock. Police said Paddock fired at hotel security before taking his own life.

In these photographs, obtained by the German newsmagazine Bild on Tuesday, a portion of Paddock’s two-room suite in the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino is visible. A gun with a scope and a stand can also be seen inside the room, just behind yellow crime-scene tape crisscrossing the door.

Lombardo declined to confirm whether the images were legitimate, but he said the department is trying to determine how the images were made public.

“I can tell you I’m very troubled by it,” Lombardo said. “We have an internal investigation going as we speak as to how those photographs were obtained.”

Investigators have sifted through a chilling but baffling array of clues in the wake of the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history, trying to determine the chain of events that caused a 64-year-old to gun down concertgoers from his hotel suite overlooking the Las Vegas Strip.

“I can’t get into the mind of a psychopath,” Lombardo had said Monday.

The probe into the shooting stretched from a ranch-style home near the Arizona border to the suite used by Paddock as a place to scan the crowds at a country music festival and then open fire — leaving at least 59 people dead and hundreds more injured in the rain of bullets or trampled in the panicked rush for cover late Sunday. He then killed himself as SWAT officers closed in.

Once again, a stunned nation was left to grapple with a city riven by tragedy and a resurgent debate over gun control and gun violence. The White House and many Republicans said it was a time to mourn rather than launch into political battles, while some Democrats renewed calls for gun safety legislation.

Lombardo has warned that the number of dead in Las Vegas could rise, more than 500 other people were thought to have been injured. Hospitals across the region continued to treat patients from the scene, many of them seriously injured. Sunrise Hospital and Medical Center said that as of Tuesday morning, it had 68 patients from the rampage, 33 of them in critical condition.

While the nation learned more about the lives cut brutally short as well as the heroic actions of people on the ground, few answers were available as to what, if anything, may have motivated the rampage.

Authorities described a grim amount of preparation. Police said Paddock arrived on Thursday, three days before the shooting, at the hotel on the southern end of the Las Vegas Strip. He took more than 10 suitcases into his suite, officials said.

Paddock aroused no suspicion from hotel staff even as he brought in 23 guns, some of them with scopes. One of the weapons he apparently used in the attack was an AK-47 type rifle, with a stand used to steady it for firing, people familiar with the case said.

Officials recovered another 19 guns as well as thousands of rounds of ammunition and the chemical tannerite, an explosive, at Paddock’s home in Mesquite, Nev. They also found ammonium nitrate, a chemical that can be used in bombmaking, in Paddock’s vehicle, Lombardo said.

Paddock had apparently used remote video cameras linked to a tablet to keep an eye out for police storming his hotel room, according to two people close to the investigation, who asked not to be identified discussing the ongoing probe.

He apparently had set up a security perimeter behind him while firing round after round into the crowd below – another indication of the level of preparation Paddock put into the attack. Such a setup would have made it easier for Paddock to know when he was close to being confronted by law enforcement.

When police breached his hotel room door and stormed inside, they found him already dead, with blood spread out behind him, mixed in with the empty shell casings on the carpet. He had apparently pointed a silver, black-handled revolver into his mouth and pulled the trigger.

Paddock had purchased weapons legally over a period of years, from local stores near his homes and from major retailers, like Cabela’s, according to law enforcement officials.

Guns & Guitars, a store in Mesquite, Nev., said in a statement that Paddock purchased some of his weapons there, but employees followed all procedures required by law, and Paddock “never gave any indication or reason to believe he was unstable or unfit at any time.” Lombardo said Paddock also seemed to have purchased guns in Arizona.

Lombardo said authorities recovered a “bump” stock from Paddock’s room in Mandalay Bay that “enables an individual to speed up the discharge of ammunition.”

“For this individual to take it upon himself to create this chaos and harm is unspeakable,” Lombardo said.

Authorities said a sweep of law enforcement databases showed that before the rampage, Paddock had no known run-ins with police. He was the son of a bank robber who was once on the FBI’s most-wanted list, but investigators turned up no clear links to any criminal enterprises or international terrorist groups — despite repeated claims by the Islamic State that Paddock carried out the carnage in its name.

Police said they believe Paddock was a “lone wolf” attacker, though they were still interested in speaking more with a woman named Marilou Danley who lived with him in Mesquite, Nev., a little more than an hour outside of Las Vegas on the Arizona border.

Danley, Paddock’s 62-year-old girlfriend, was found outside the country — as of Monday afternoon, in Tokyo — and was not involved in the shooting.

“We still consider her a person of interest,” Lombardo said Monday. He said investigators also are exploring a report that Paddock attended a different music festival in September.

People close to the investigation said that in the weeks before the attack, Paddock transferred a large amount of money – something close to $100,000 – to someone in the Philippines, possibly his girlfriend.

The rampage Sunday targeted the Route 91 Harvest festival, a three-day country music concert with grounds across the street from the Mandalay Bay Resort. When the gunfire began Sunday at about 10:08 p.m., some 22,000 people were there, according to police. Country star Jason Aldean was playing what was expected to be one of the last sets of the night as Paddock opened fire, his bullets flying from a window on the casino’s golden facade, which Paddock had smashed with some type of hammer.

“People were getting shot at while we were running, and people were on the ground bleeding, crying and screaming. We just had to keep going,” said Dinora Merino, 28, a dealer at the Ellis Island casino who was at the concert with a friend. “There are tents out there and there’s no place to hide. It’s just an open field.”

The dead included a behavioral therapist who was soon to be married, a nursing assistant from Southern California, a commercial fisherman and an off-duty Las Vegas city police officer. Two other officers who were on duty were injured, police said; one was in stable condition after surgery, and the other sustained minor injuries. Another off-duty officer with the Bakersfield Police Department in Southern California also sustained non-life-threatening injuries, according to a statement from the department.

Syed Saquib, a surgeon on duty Sunday night at University Medical Center, said the hospital treated 104 patients, most of whom had gunshot wounds.

“Those that could be saved, were saved,” Saquib said. “There were a few that came in with devastating, non-survivable injuries.”

John Soqui drove seven hours from Arizona to see his 29-year-old niece, who had been shot in the head. Jovanna Martinez-Calzadillas, from suburban Phoenix, had been attending the concert with her husband, a military police officer, Soqui said. Her husband, who was not injured, carried Martinez-Calzadillas away from the concert after she had been shot, relatives said.

“There is just so much hate in this world, and she is my little niece, and I just want to get the guy who shot her,” said Soqui, 51.

Soqui then remembered that Paddock had apparently taken his own life before police stormed into his hotel room. “I want to die, kill myself, just so I can get him,” Soqui added. “So many people have been affected by this, and it’s just killing me that there are people like that out there.”

President Trump ordered flags flown at half-staff and said he would visit Las Vegas on Wednesday.

Leaving the White House to visit hurricane-ravaged Puerto Rico on Tuesday morning, Trump repeated his praise for police in Las Vegas and their response, saying of law enforcement that “what happened in Las Vegas is in many ways a miracle.” He also said that “we’ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by.”

Eric Paddock, Stephen Paddock’s brother, said he was stunned to learn that his brother could be responsible for such violence.

Stephen Paddock had no history of mental illness nor did he have problems with drugs or alcohol, Eric Paddock said, noting that his brother was a high-stakes gambler, sometimes wagering hundreds of dollars on a single hand of video poker.

When he spoke to the FBI, Eric Paddock said he showed agents three years of text messages from his brother, including one that mentioned winning $250,000 at a casino. A federal law enforcement official said investigators had reviewed reports suggesting Paddock engaged in high-dollar gambling, and they are trying to determine whether he faced financial strains.

Eric Paddock said his brother was “wealthy,” in part because he had no children to support. Stephen Paddock had worked in the past as an accountant, and he had real estate investments in the Orlando area, Eric Paddock said. Lockheed Martin, the defense giant, said that Paddock had worked for the company for three years in the 1980s.

Not long after the shooting in Las Vegas, the Islamic State claimed responsibility, though law enforcement authorities were quick to reject that assertion.

“We have determined, to this point, no connection with an international terrorist group,” Aaron Rouse, the special agent in charge of the FBI in Las Vegas, said at a news briefing.

 

[Rachel333]

45 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Yes, I have been hearing this as well. I believe 100k. The story does keep getting more and more strange.

I am doubtful it is a coincidence. He also sent 100K to the Philippines, which is where she is right now. I dunno, maybe he just gave her money as a way to take care of herself for a bit?

Probably not a coincidence because it's obvious he had been planning this for a long time, but that doesn't mean she knew anything. He was very wealthy, so him sending 100K might not have seemed strange to her. I'm sure he was capable of hiding all his plans from her. On the other hand, it's also possible she did know something. We just don't know.

If she's completely innocent I really feel bad for her right now. I know that law enforcement badly wants to talk to her since she might be the only one who could give any insight into the shooter's motives, but from her perspective I can see how it might be better for her to stay in the Philippines and lawyer up before talking to anyone.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

The sheriff looked exhausted tonight. Poor guy.

I am also wondering why this guy needed SO MANY weapons. Why not just a couple because obviously some aren't even going to get used. Surely be knew this. Why bring all of this up to a hotel?

The crazy person in me wonders if this is an arms deal gone very bad. That begs a lot of questions alone, but the fact that we still have absolutely no motive is making this so strange. Lots and lots of questions.

[47of74]

An Iowa woman was one of the casualties

Quote

A northwest Iowa women is now reported to be among the deceased in the Las Vegas shooting massacre.

The community organization Las Vegas United – which has been tracking fatalities from the deadliest mass shooting in American history – on Tuesday night listed Carly Kreibaum of Sutherland among the victims who perished.

Social media posts by Kreibaum’s friends and family also announced her passing.

Word of her apparent death came as authorities in Las Vegas indicated they had identified all but three of the dead.

 

And also the local newspaper apologized for an editorial cartoon that pissed a lot of people off.

Quote

An editor at the Dubuque Telegraph-Herald has issued a statement apologizing for an editorial cartoon on the mass shooting in Las Vegas that many found offensive.

Brian Cooper, editorial page editor, said "We're confident that it was not editorial cartoonist Randall Enos's intent to offend anyone in the wake of the tragedy, and it certainly was not ours. I apologize to everyone offended by the cartoon and my decision to post it."

That's a once in a lifetime thing that they actually apologized for something.  These are the same people who wouldn't stop publishing home addresses of people who wrote letters to the editor for the longest time (and I believe it was their lawyers having a come to Jesus moment with the editor).  And got a weirdo mailing those of us who wrote in. 

[onekidanddone]

7 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

There are so many stories that involve people helping one another out and even risking their own lives to help out. We can talk about how bad people are, but most are good. The bad guys are outnumbered.

I have to keep repeating this to myself, because these days I just feel empty, done and a loss of faith. 

[Destiny]

37 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I have to keep repeating this to myself, because these days I just feel empty, done and a loss of faith. 

This. This is exactly how I feel. I want to be sad and feel like we should do something, but what's the point? We aren't going to do jack shit to keep this from happening again. Hell, the fucking add-on that this bag of dicks used to make the weapons that could shoot well over a fucking quarter of a mile fully automatic is god damned legal. What even is the point of anything when making a weapon fully auto is fucking ok?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/10/03/why-thoughts-and-prayers-is-starting-to-sound-so-profane/

Quote

It’s become a sort of twisted American ritual: A lone white male shooter opens fire on a crowd of people. Americans cry out for someone to do something and are met with shoulder shrugs, mumblings about “the price of freedom” and assurances that the people elected to protect them are sending their “thoughts and prayers.”

Great article. Sorry, thoughts and prayers no longer fucking cut it.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Girlfriend has been greeted at LAX by authorities.

[dairyfreelife]

7 hours ago, FundieFarmer said:

Hello from an Orlandoan who worked Pulse. I know this is not at all about us. But I wanted to share a few things that have been so, so surreal since yesterday morning. 

My organization has gotten so many requests and has brought counselors back in because it hits so close to home. A few of our team were there already or were scheduled to be there to teach– no joke– tragedy response. One had to hide from the gunfire. Several of us have remarked it has been tragic that another city now has the "worst shooting in America" title. Something should have been done in the year+ since Pulse so that this could never have happened. Why is this happening again?

I feel like Orlando is here with our hands up and empty saying, "Have we taught you nothing? Have all our efforts been for nothing? Have we been begging you to change things for nothing? When will you make a difference? Was our pain for nothing and now you've let it happen to others? Are all of these government meetings and calls to senators and congressmen and grassroots efforts for nothing? When does America get to see a real change?" 

Was it that lawmakers thought it could never be worse than 49 deaths? And now we have 59, will they think it could never get worse than that? What will be the impetus for change? 

This is nauseating. I know it's not about me, it's not about Orlando. But I had hoped what happened to us would have made a difference in preventing this from happening again, however slowly, and it breaks my heart to truly see that it didn't. 

It should have been obvious we learn nothing and do nothing. When 26 6 and 7-year-olds are murdered and we did nothing, I knew then that it was useless to think anything would ever get done. We have yet to learn. I have given up hope that change will happen anytime soon and sadly, it's not a matter of IF this will happen again, but WHEN. And that, that is one hard pill for me to swallow. 

[Coy Koi]

4 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I am also wondering why this guy needed SO MANY weapons. Why not just a couple because obviously some aren't even going to get used. Surely be knew this. Why bring all of this up to a hotel?

That's exactly what I've been wondering, but I haven't seen anyone else ask about it so I didn't know if I was missing something. People in general seem to be kind of taking the attitude that more guns=worse intentions, which obviously could be true to a certain extent, but he took it way past the point where there was any chance he could possibly use all of them (I mean, without slowing him down), so I really don't get it.

But nothing about this guy makes sense. At least as far as I've heard, not one person has come forward and said he was anything other than normal-seeming. Not even anyone coming out of the woodwork for their 15 minutes (although maybe there are people still trying to sell their story to the highest bidder, I suppose). It just doesn't seem like he ever made much of an impression one way or another on anyone, not even his own brothers! I could see someone successfully hiding their inner evil for a while, but 64 years??

[Rachel333]

7 minutes ago, Coy Koi said:

At least as far as I've heard, not one person has come forward and said he was anything other than normal-seeming.

There was one story from a Starbucks employee who said he used to berate his girlfriend. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-at-his-local-starbucks-vegas-shooter-1507060195-htmlstory.html

I'm very curious about what his girlfriend has to say because this is all just so weird.

[Coy Koi]

4 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

There was one story from a Starbucks employee who said he used to berate his girlfriend. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-at-his-local-starbucks-vegas-shooter-1507060195-htmlstory.html

Oh okay, so that's something anyway. Not to say I find it at all unbelievable, but it also sounds like the kind of thing someone who was barely acquainted with the person might exaggerate about to have an interesting story to tell. Everyone seems to think he was standoffish and not particularly friendly, but most of what I've read doesn't sound out of the range of normal. I would actually expect to hear more stories like this, even if it's exaggerated, but especially if it's not. If he was that open about being that much of a dick to her, there have to be plenty of other people that know about it.

[fraurosena]

I saw this floating around my social media feeds. I wish I knew who the author is, because I'd really like to acknowledge them, but so far I haven't been able to find out.

I agree with this suggestion so much.

How about we treat every young man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion – mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he’s about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound up the ass (just because). Let’s close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photo’s of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

It makes more sense to do this with young men and guns than with women and health care, right? I mean, no woman getting an abortion has killed a room full of people in seconds, right?

[GreyhoundFan]

I thought this was a good opinion piece from the WaPo: "Fox News’s clueless coverage of the Las Vegas shooting was perfect fodder for Trevor Noah"

Spoiler

A comic seeking good material to pan Fox News coverage need look no further than its monumentally dumb morning program, “Fox & Friends.” So it’s no wonder that Trevor Noah of “The Daily Show” ran a clip of Brian Kilmeade, one of the “Fox & Friends” co-hosts, saying the following about Las Vegas massacre propagator Stephen Paddock:

“Bin Laden — we knew who to hate. You saw Sandy Hook? We knew that mutant living in his basement. We don’t even know enough about him to hate him yet,” said Kilmeade.

With the softball launched right at him, Noah swung for the fences: “That is so true. How do you hate someone who’s killed 59 people? Because he’s not Muslim. He wasn’t known to be mentally ill, he doesn’t kneel for the anthem, he’s just a rich white guy who shot people at a country music concert. How do you hate him? There’s nothing to hate.”

Everything about the coverage of mass shootings is rote. We’ve seen the patterns way too many times before. At Fox News, part of the reflex response is to do the work of the National Rifle Association by simply refusing to discuss gun control. That’s just outrageous, a dishonor to the victims. “Do you need to politicize this today?” asked Fox News’s Kimberly Guilfoyle, in a clip highlighted by Noah.

And in a juxtaposition reminiscent of the Fox News sendups executed by predecessor Jon Stewart, Noah then cited how Fox News folks were very quick to talk politics in the aftermath of the Pulse nightclub massacre in June 2016. That attack was committed by Omar Mateen, who had proclaimed allegiance to the Islamic State. “In the wake of this attack, you wonder whether people like that should be coming here,” said Brit Hume the day after the Pulse killings.

The grand feat of Fox News distortion following the Las Vegas killings came from none other than Jesse Watters, the longtime pupil of now-dethroned King of Cable News Bill O’Reilly. Showing a creativity and cravenness typical of his mentor, Watters noted that law enforcement officials were running toward the shooter while the crowds were dispersing in the opposite direction. “All those kneelers in the NFL out there, they need to recognize … they’re kneeling, and we’re supposed to be honoring law enforcement, law enforcement that’s trying to save lives, not take lives,” said Watters.

“Wow,” exclaimed Noah. “Did this guy just find a way to use the mass shooting to pivot back to the NFL argument? Like after watching this you’d be thinking: Hundreds of people shot in Las Vegas. Colin Kaepernick, you son of a b––––.”

None of the commentary, however, reached quite as far as that of Ainsley Earhardt — again, on “Fox & Friends.” She had a theory connected to the fact that the shooter opened fire on a country music festival. “His brother said he didn’t believe in God or didn’t have a god or didn’t have faith in his life. So maybe — this is all speculation — but that possibly could be the reason, because he knows country musicians or country music fans are normally pro-God and go to church on Sundays. Maybe he has a problem with that, or had a problem with that,” said Earhardt. Her “Fox & Friends” colleagues sat in silence.

Cable news is on at all hours, meaning that hosts have too much time to fill with blather and half-constructed thoughts and theories. As this blog noted on Monday, CNN hosts foolishly scrambled to praise an unremarkable speech by President Trump regarding the massacre. Yet the contradictions and depravity of Fox News commentary — particularly on opinion shows such as “Fox & Friends,” “Hannity” and “The Five” — are indeed an outlier in an often bumbling industry sector. Witness Sean Hannity’s invocation of his own history with guns in the context of preventing mass shootings — a bit of nonsensicality that Noah parodied in a way that we won’t attempt to abridge here.