Dillards 41: Chocolate, Cheese, and Other Things More Interesting

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

It's because Jeremy is good looking and charismatic. People with these two traits can get away with a lot.  

[PainfullyAware]

I really doubt Derick is hiding a secret trans identity. I think he's just bigoted. To him it's more important to prosecute God's "laws" than spread love. 

I also think it's really premature to assert Jill doesn't like being a mother. She probably was upset the births didn't meet fundie standards (to be fair, they would be tough for anyone). She certainly didn't like parenting in El Salvador- she was too sheltered to handle living there. I'm sure worrying about financial security and Derick's whims is also stressful (even if Daddy would step in) because she wants to be married to a 'good headship' who takes care of everything. 

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

I read an article a few months ago by this strict (but not FLDS) Mormon woman who said her husband "struggled with gay thoughts" before they got married, but that with the power of the Lord () he was leading a "Godly heterosexual lifestyle" () This discussion made me think of that article. Now I'm wondering how a fundie in a courtship would broach that subject if it ever came up with their girlfriend's family (if at all...?) Would it be like with Josh, where Boob and Meeshelle made a vague statement to Anna's parents about his "struggle with sexual sin" and just left it at that, or would they be more direct and forthcoming about it like the husband from the article was (albiet with the (misguided) understanding that it was a "sin" of his that needed more prayer?) I know to fundies its all "sin" that needs to be "corrected", but to me its crazy that even in the best case scenario, where everyone is honest and no one is keeping secrets from each other, they're still dismissing something pretty fucking consequential to the success and happiness of a marriage. 

[lomo6]

3 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

To us, his transphobia must be because of some cognitive dissonance because it seems irrational and excessive. But fundies were all bread to be transphobic, homophobic and generally to confine to a very narrow-minded WASPY worldview. 

I agree with most of your post, except for the part where you equate fundamentalism to the WASPy worldview. Sure, Derick may be a WASP in the literal sense that he is a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. But culturally, WASP means something very specific - northeastern or northern Midwestern establishment elites, generally mainline Protestants who are educated at elite institutions. Lots of emphasis on manners and keeping up appearances. Also lots of quiet alcoholism, but I digress. The point is that a state school mascot and his barefoot fundie parking lot bride don't really fit the bill. 

[VelociRapture]

For those asking about Cathy's cancer battle:

http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2016/10/cancer-free-for-two-years.html?m=1

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ketv.com/article/reality-tv-show-cancer-patient-come-to-omaha-for-transplant/7651923

Duggar Family blog states she was diagnosed about two weeks after the Dills were engaged. The news article says the diagnosis was stage four non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and it had spread to her spleen, bone marrow, and liver.

Cathy fell in her bathroom and hit her head on June 12 and had to be airlifted to the hospital. Her Doctor was honestly shocked she hadn't bled out at home and she was still alive when she arrived. It's honestly incredible she not only lived, but she was doing well enough to be given the ok to attend the Dills' wedding just nine days later.

Cathy endured grueling chemotherapy treatments and 6.5 weeks of stem cell treatments in Omaha. I believe she was declared cancer free October 13, 2014. 

This article states the diagnosis was made April 10, 2014:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.christiantoday.com/amp/jill.duggars.mother.in.law.is.doing.exceptionally.well.after.life.threatening.non.hodgkin.lymphoma.diagnosis/47107.htm

It seems that the entire cancer battle - from diagnosis to being declared cancer free - was incredibly fast and ridiculously intense. She very easily could have died. That's a lot to process and handle, especially when you consider the very unexpected loss of his father just six years prior. Then you add in how quickly Jill became pregnant, the intense and scary birth, the public revelation that Jill had been molested by her brother...

Some people are able to deal with life shattering things fairly well. Others aren't. This variation can happen even amongst close family members, like siblings. I wouldn't be at all shocked if Derick had or is having a hard time handling the massive changes he's experienced the last decade, especially since he seems to think Jesus is the only cure for mental illness.

[Cleopatra7]

38 minutes ago, lomo6 said:

I agree with most of your post, except for the part where you equate fundamentalism to the WASPy worldview. Sure, Derick may be a WASP in the literal sense that he is a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. But culturally, WASP means something very specific - northeastern or northern Midwestern establishment elites, generally mainline Protestants who are educated at elite institutions. Lots of emphasis on manners and keeping up appearances. Also lots of quiet alcoholism, but I digress. The point is that a state school mascot and his barefoot fundie parking lot bride don't really fit the bill. 

It's my understanding that the WASP category is more about ethnicity than class, and was developed as a nativist counterpoint to the "white ethnics" (i.e. Irish, Italians, Jews of any background, Greeks, Russians) who were believed to be bringing down the "racial stock" in the 19th and early 20th century. The Lodges and the Cabots may have traditionally looked down on the likes of the Dillards and the Duggars (and probably still do) but they would have seen them as being more "American" than the wealthy but Irish Catholic Kennedy family. The second Klan (1915-1930s) saw itself as an organization that was meant to defend WASP privilege, but it's membership was made up of the working and middle classes; elites considered the group déclassé, even if many of them were in agreement with the Klan's WASP supremacy platform.

[Beermeet]

3 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

I really doubt Derick is hiding a secret trans identity. I think he's just bigoted. To him it's more important to prosecute God's "laws" than spread love. 

I also think it's really premature to assert Jill doesn't like being a mother. She probably was upset the births didn't meet fundie standards (to be fair, they would be tough for anyone). She certainly didn't like parenting in El Salvador- she was too sheltered to handle living there. I'm sure worrying about financial security and Derick's whims is also stressful (even if Daddy would step in) because she wants to be married to a 'good headship' who takes care of everything. 

I really think Jill wanted her husband to be just like her dad in that he makes money, keeps her busy at home and knocked up, safe, sheltered and told what to do.  I agree with the poster who said Jill romanticized mission work.  Her experience was short stints surrounded by people she knew and no one had a baby at the time.  Mom and pop Duggar didn't take babies if I remember correctly.   They split up.  Plus, aspiring to be a missionary is huge in that circle.  The most pious of callings.  Derick turned out to be not like pop at all except in true beliefs that even pop won't vomit all over social media.   It's a mess.

[luv2laugh]

From my understanding, WASPs consist of people that are white protestants and come from blue-blooded old money, go to ivy league colleges, and typically end up on Wall Street as investment bankers,rock star traders, or hedge fund managers. These people typically commute to work each day in NY from their Greenwich,CT $3-5 million dollar mansions.


Derrick is not a WASP.

[Beermeet]

30 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

From my understanding, WASPs consist of people that are white protestants and come from blue-blooded old money, go to ivy league colleges, and typically end up on Wall Street as investment bankers,rock star traders, or hedge fund managers. These people typically commute to work each day in NY from their Greenwich,CT $3-5 million dollar mansions.


Derrick is not a WASP.

Or down south. Those old white southern families.  Blue bloods.  Family money sorts that don't have to work per say, but do.  Both would go to the opening of an envelope if the right people were present.  Horse riding is a must.   ( I rode horses but it is different.  I didn't own mine or show them)  Certain breed sporting dogs.  Lots of cocktails ( ok, that's two similarities to me...hahaha!).  Ya know..... lol!

ETA:  Not Duggars/Dillards.  

[Greendoor]

3 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

It's my understanding that the WASP category is more about ethnicity than class, and was developed as a nativist counterpoint to the "white ethnics" (i.e. Irish, Italians, Jews of any background, Greeks, Russians) who were believed to be bringing down the "racial stock" in the 19th and early 20th century. The Lodges and the Cabots may have traditionally looked down on the likes of the Dillards and the Duggars (and probably still do) but they would have seen them as being more "American" than the wealthy but Irish Catholic Kennedy family. The second Klan (1915-1930s) saw itself as an organization that was meant to defend WASP privilege, but it's membership was made up of the working and middle classes; elites considered the group déclassé, even if many of them were in agreement with the Klan's WASP supremacy platform.

It is my understanding that WASP defines a politcal and ethical (noblese oblige) and democratic bent.  The Fundies would NOT classify as that.  There are a couple of expressions from another era that would fit those types from the South, but I will not stoop to insults.

 

[JordynDarby5]

3 hours ago, Beermeet said:

I really think Jill wanted her husband to be just like her dad in that he makes money, keeps her busy at home and knocked up, safe, sheltered and told what to do.  I agree with the poster who said Jill romanticized mission work.  Her experience was short stints surrounded by people she knew and no one had a baby at the time.  Mom and pop Duggar didn't take babies if I remember correctly.   They split up.  Plus, aspiring to be a missionary is huge in that circle.  The most pious of callings.  Derick turned out to be not like pop at all except in true beliefs that even pop won't vomit all over social media.   It's a mess.

I do think this is how Jill thought her married life would be. In addition to giving birth and having sister-moms she could hand her babies over to or "help" her with when ever she wanted. She didn't expect to be in SA alone having to take care of her own child all by herself. Her mother never did. Jill assumed she was going to get that life. Hand off her babies to helpers, play missionary and give interviews. 

[nastyhobbitses]

I think that Jill made a lot of choices in her adult life that were what she was "supposed" to want. She was supposed to get married to the guy Daddy picked for her. She was supposed to have babies right away. She was supposed to give birth at home. She was supposed to be a godly missionary and follow her husband wherever he chose to go. She was supposed to raise obedient, compliant children. And I think that now, she's slowly starting to realize that maybe what she really wants and what she's supposed to want don't line up.

As for Derick, I don't think he's trans. I don't think he's gay either. Maybe he's hiding something fucked up (because IME, the people who crow the loudest about sin and vice and hold bigoted beliefs are usually shitty people who have done shitty things), and it's also entirely possible that he's just an asshole. I also kind of think that he sees Jill and his children as burdens. Jill is pliant and submissive, but incredibly clingy and emotionally needy, and doesn't handle Central America well. Izzy and Sam require tons of attention, and don't come quiet and obedient right out of the box. On top of being a bigot, I think Derick is just a selfish, self-centered individual who doesn't like that he now has to adjust his life to others' needs.

[AlwaysExcited]

I don't think Derrick is anything other than cis straight asshole, who sees himself as savior of poor, confused trans kids. In his mind these kids are victims of Satan, Soros and liberals, and he,  the Very Special White Christian Savior, will free them from chains of sin. Because he isn't the job type person, and he needs something to fill his days with. 
 

[Kolcatta]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

To be honest, part of me wants to believe Jeremy is "less fundie" but the dead truth is that he is just like the rest except with charisma. The best example I can bring up is in my home country Australia when the uncharismatic, stuttering Prime Minister Tony Abbott got replaced with charismatic, well spoken Malcolm Turnbull. Everyone was optimistic that Turnbull would be different and make some more ~progressive~ changes but boy were we wrong. He was just a "charismatic Abbott". That's Jeremy tbh, a charismatic Derick to an extent.

I don't think Derick is hiding a secret LGBT identity. I mean, if he did it could answer some questions but I just think he is just plain mean. Nonetheless,  he seems to give me some off-vibes. Like I feel a year or so later this mad scandal is gonna be exposed where TLC and the Duggars have got to do some serious damage control. Idk what it will be, but I know that the next Big Scandal will involve him. 

[singsingsing]

I actually do think Jeremy is less fundie, but the question is, what does that really mean? How much do we celebrate someone who thinks drinking a glass of wine and women wearing skinny jeans is okay, but whose church runs gay conversion therapy and who freely chose to associate himself with the Duggars (post-scandals, too) and go through their ridiculous courtship process?

 

[Drala]

2 hours ago, AlwaysExcited said:

I don't think Derrick is anything other than cis straight asshole, who sees himself as savior of poor, confused trans kids. In his mind these kids are victims of Satan, Soros and liberals, and he,  the Very Special White Christian Savior, will free them from chains of sin. Because he isn't the job type person, and he needs something to fill his days with. 
 

I don't doubt that D'wreck sees himself as White Christian Savior, but I wonder about his special mission to save trans kids from Satan.  Why that group? Are they the fundie asshole flavor of the month?  Does he really think mocking them will win them over?  Isn't he, at some level, proving his manliness by challenging the assumption that gender is fluid and taking flack for his "principled" stance?    

[Lurky]

51 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I actually do think Jeremy is less fundie, but the question is, what does that really mean?

"Less Fundy than JB" is a very specifically contextual background though! 

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, Drala said:

I don't doubt that D'wreck sees himself as White Christian Savior, but I wonder about his special mission to save trans kids from Satan.  Why that group? Are they the fundie asshole flavor of the month?  Does he really think mocking them will win them over?  Isn't he, at some level, proving his manliness by challenging the assumption that gender is fluid and taking flack for his "principled" stance?    

Yep! I believe someone else said it a few pages ago, and it's totally true: conservative Christians are beginning to realize that they've lost the war against homosexuality. Gay marriage is legal across the U.S. and is probably staying that way. Acceptance of homosexuality is at an all time high in general society, and even large segments of Christianity are starting to believe that being gay is not a sin and that same sex relationships, marriage, adoption, etc. are valid and acceptable.

The culture wars have now moved on to trans issues. This issue is unfamiliar to a lot of people, most people don't understand what it's like to be trans, it's tied in with SEX, and it upends traditional notions of societal structures based on gender, so it's the perfect weapon for conservative politicians to wield to scare their base and whip them up into a voting frenzy. Derick is really just following the trend. I'd be willing to bet he consumes a lot of right-wing media featuring endless bitching about 'liberal snowflakes' and 'entitled millennials'. He probably knows what Tumblr is. I'm sure he believes that there is a grave threat to the nation: liberal college kids (and the communist professors brainwashing them) who are whiny, extremely sensitive, afraid of everything, delusional, entitled, and generally pathetic, but simultaneously capable of, and on the verge of succeeding in, destroying American society. No way is he reading anything presenting a nuanced, or even fact-based, view. His sources are all fallacious and reactionary, so his comments are fallacious and reactionary. Garbage in, garbage out.

[Lurker]

Jill was brought up to be a mindless clinging vine, and to defer decisions to her headship, Jim Bob.  She apparently was very good at it since she was Daddy's favorite golden girl so the cycle of a helpless girl free of independent thought getting smiles and approval was set.

Anyway no one should have been surprised that Jill couldn't handle SCA since she was unable to spend an hour alone in Arkansas when she was first married.  She called Derrick at work multiple times a day looking for attention, approval or her instructions for the day from her new headship.

I don't know what has triggered Derrick's obsession with trans youth.  Possibly it is as simple as to gain attention in their fundy circle where everyone is no-choice and acts like women get abortions along with their pedicures in ebil liberal places. He was able to get attached to a church ministry so it has paid off for him.

My impression is that he has secrets buried deep, and is basically a mean and angry person with a deep sense of entitlement and bitterness that no one else realizes how important he is.   Transgender youth are a perfect target for his brand and online bullying of them is his ticket to relevance.

[lomo6]

I just watched the first episode of the new season. It is amazing how terrified Jill seems, considering they have a 24/7 armed guard and a huge wall with barbed wire surrounding their house. I have lived in South America before and traveled in Central America, and while middle class American travelers definitely need to be concerned about petty crime and robberies if they're walking through the streets, the kind of high-skilled home invasion scenario that Jill is imagining is exceedingly rare. Like, about maybe more rare than having your home robbed in Arkansas is. That's in part because people know that the consequences will be much higher if an American is involved than if they just victimize locals (which is sad). 

Seeing how frightened she was made it clear that Jill does not have the right personality to live in a developing country, and it almost made me feel bad for Derick, being saddled with someone who is so nervous and anxious all the time.

Then I remembered what a hateful ass hat he is...perhaps they deserve each other. 

[Carm_88]

Is Jeremy less fundie than the other Duggar husbands?

Modesty: Jeremy has stated that he has no issues with wearing pants. Derick believes that modest is hottest. Austin likes Joy in dresses, so likely skirts only. Ben is a question mark. I don’t think Ben has ever stated one way or the other what he thinks about skirts only.  His sister wears fairly short shorts and they’re still friends. If he has feel free to correct me here.

Pregnancy: All three other husbands had their wives pregnant fairly quickly after the wedding. Meaning that they are definitely not preventing pregnancy in any way. Jeremy and Jinger haven’t gotten pregnant in their 10 months of marriage.*

Catholics: Oooh boy. Yeah; Ben, Jeremy, and Derick have all come out condemning Catholics. Catholicism for them is pretty much the worst. Jeremy had anti-Catholic sermons, Derick was in Central America trying to convert the heathens, I know Ben said something but I can’t remember exactly what. His sister Jessica’s diary that was posted for the world to see, eek. Yeah, they all hate Catholics. Austin, hasn’t really said anything yet.

The LGBTQ+ community: Well, we know that Derick thinks of it all. Derick hates transgender individuals and likes to attack them. Jeremy believes that gay people can be ex-gays. That’s right conversion therapy, lots of Jesus and you can be having god sanctioned missionary with your godly spouse. Austin has not said anything as of yet and I cannot remember if Ben has made any attacking statements. Ben has been so quiet lately that I am forgetting his hatefulness.

Abortion: Well, we know that Jessa compared the holocaust to abortions, with a load of backlash. Well deserved, that’s sheer stupidity. So, yeah Ben is not for it. Neither are Jeremy or Derick. Derick has been seen putting up fake facts while posting pictures at the March of Life. Jeremy has the “crisis pregnancy centre” in other words, give your baby up for adoption and then we will drop you like a hot stone. Austin and Joy had that very prolife pregnancy announcement, so we will go with anti-abortion, all of them!

Courting: They all seemed to have pretty similar standards except Jeremy was a little more touchy feely. That just may be his personality.

Financial Situation: Derick and Ben appeared on the scene in the height of the 19 Kids and Counting Days. Ben is still working for Jim Bob and Derick seems to be getting paid mostly via Counting On and grifting. Although the grifting isn’t going so well. Ben is also in college so he has that going for him, to be a pastor but still. Derick is working(?) maybe with a church but also grifting, so I don’t know what is going on there. Jeremy is a pastor at a satellite church in Laredo but still part of Counting On, so therefore still part of the Duggar dog and pony show. Austin is a house flipper, also part of Counting On; still part of the Dog and Pony show. Derick has a degree that he could use but chooses not to. Jeremy does have a degree, Ben has his associates.

So really, it all comes down to dress and if they are preventing pregnancy. They seem to agree on the key issues. There may be slight differences that I haven’t gotten into but for the most part, they seem to agree. Does all of this equal Jeremy is less fundie? I don’t know.

*She could be pregnant and we don’t know it.

[singsingsing]

18 minutes ago, lomo6 said:

Seeing how frightened she was made it clear that Jill does not have the right personality to live in a developing country, and it almost made me feel bad for Derick, being saddled with someone who is so nervous and anxious all the time.

I am not diagnosing Jill with anything. But as someone with an anxiety disorder, I 100% understand her fears, irrational as they may be. I check my apartment in my safe, boring, middle class neighbourhood in Canada every night for hidden murderers. I would have reacted just as strongly to the shower rack incident, and probably would've cried remembering it months later, too. I absolutely would not be able to function moving to a foreign country where I didn't speak the language or really understand the culture, in a crime-ridden area, even without a baby to worry about. I would have been on the plane home in about two seconds, headship be damned.

I'm not at all suggesting that people with mental health struggles cannot or should not travel or live in other countries, dangerous areas, etc. Not at all. But as someone who is also an anxious, sensitive, and easily overwhelmed person, I understand Jill's struggle. I think there are a lot of people with anxiety who have the resources to successfully manage something like that. Jill doesn't. She isn't allowed to. Anxiety is a sign that you're not trusting God enough, AKA it's a failure on her part and a source of shame. I can't even imagine how horrible that would be. If I'm right in thinking that she was fairly miserable and struggling with anxiety, I hope for her sake that she never has to be in that situation again.

I don't feel sorry for Derick at all. He chose to marry this sheltered young woman who had never lived away from home. It's not like he never got the chance to experience life in a foreign country as a missionary - he did, for quite a while. Then he chose marriage and babies. Suck it up, buttercup - your wife and your children are your #1 priority now, and that's non-negotiable.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm in the camp that Dwreck is probably just the typical homophobic bigot but  I wonder if someone may have hit on him recently and that's what triggered his tiny dick hissy on Twitter?

I've noticed that with people before. They already have those hateful beliefs, but they don't go around spouting them because they don't affect them. Then a same sex couple kisses in front of them and they go off the deep end. 

[fluffernutter]

@VelociRapture Your post rang so true with me. My mom was 55 and passed away from stage 3 colon cancer. It was 8 years ago but it completely changed me. Nightmares, PTSD, for years after. I still struggle. I miss her of course, and am sad she hasn't seen her granddaughters grow up because she adored them. But it's deeper. Like the trauma and shock of the whole process just altered my soul. 

So yes, i will give him that. He did go through a lot, and at a young age and close together. I hope his mom stays healthy. Stage four is so scary. 

[bananabread]

Is being pro-life really a fundie indicator? I think it's perfectly possibly to be an open-minded, mainstream person who is still personally very pro-life. Both my fiance and I are pro-LGBT, pro-being whatever religion you want, pro-making your own sexual choices, etc etc etc but are also super pro-life (personally, but not in favor of criminalizing abortion, mainly because that just doesn't work). I'm not really comfortable lumping being pro-life in the same category as forbidding women from going to college, forcing LGBT kids into conversion therapy, and going to foreign countries solely to try and convert Catholics. I don't think being personally pro-life is necessarily backwards or hateful/naive, and I think some of the FJ rhetoric about pro-life people is a bit hostile.