Joy and Austin 13: Another Duggar Pregnancy Grandbaby 10

[BrandoBarks]

20 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

This horse is dead. BEYOND dead.

I had to google what this expression means :-) I missed that part of the discussion in the last thread, now I see, thx!

[veron1que]

7 hours ago, singsingsing said:

That's insane. You're a legal adult at 18. Joy is 19. She's an adult. This infantalizing of people in their late teens and early 20s has got to stop. It's incredibly insulting to the people in question and it does not help anyone. The fact that your brain (supposedly) does not finish developing until the age of 25 does not mean that you're a child until that point. That's pseudoscientific bullshit.

Thank you. We hold 19 year olds accountable for their views. If one of these fundie is on social media spewing hate, we accept that they are old enough to know better.

Re birthing: I could see her going either way, but there is nothing to suggest that Jill will be her midwife. Jill is NOT a midwife, she started training as one but never completed her education or licensing. Jill has not delivered any babies on her own. I wouldn't be surprised if she was there helping, but if Joy goes the midwife route what reason do we have to think she wouldn't get an actual midwife like Jessa? 

[HurricaneBells]

5 hours ago, adidas said:

You don't have time to build and shape who you as an individual before someone else is inextricably linked to you. 

I love this. What a simple but true statement.

[Rachel333]

The idea that someone is an adult at 18 is an arbitrary social construct and there is a lot of evidence that people don't fully mature until their mid 20's. Arbitrary or not, however, 18 is the age that is legally recognized as adulthood in the US, so in that sense there is no question that Joy is fully an adult.

[Knight of Ni]

She is legally an adult. Mentally I would say pre teen. She said before she was dating Austin and wanted him to notice her she would write her name on the wall of a house he was flipping. This reminds me of kids in middle school who would write their name on their crush's binder. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

7 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

She is legally an adult. Mentally I would say pre teen. She said before she was dating Austin and wanted him to notice her she would write her name on the wall of a house he was flipping. This reminds me of kids in middle school who would write their name on their crush's binder. 

I write MY name in the dust/on the white board/whatever in hubby's garage. I'm 50. Guess I'm mentally a pre-teen. Works for me. Growing up is a bad bad joke, anyway.

[melon]

I got married at 19,too.I had my child at 20.I'm 57,now but I don't have any grandchildren.I would have been a grandmother,at 42.My son had a girlfriend when he was 16-18, and she was 14-16.They spent a  lot of time together her parents loved him.Her mother was a nurse..they were using birth control...she got pregnant.They wanted their baby,her father did not..had she gone to term,she would have been a mother at 16.Her father said she was too young.So she had an abortion.I have mixed feeling because,this was my son who passed away,if she had had her baby,I'd still have a part of my son. With my oldest son,I gained too much weight,especially in my first trimester.I looked farther along than I was,throughout all three of my pregnancies ,I did.Joy has a curvier,more shapely figure than some of her sisters,and she has a short waist,and large breasts.My grandmother could be outspoken,opinionated,and downright rude.I have struggled with my weight since I was 12,gaining ,losing,keeping off,gaining etc.After my third son,I wasn't careful and gained weight,my grandmother had very little tolerance for anyone who was overweight.I was visiting her,and she said "Melon,are you doing anything about your weight?I know you aren't pregnant".

[CoveredInBees]

12 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I write MY name in the dust/on the white board/whatever in hubby's garage. I'm 50. Guess I'm mentally a pre-teen. Works for me. Growing up is a bad bad joke, anyway.

Yesterday my BFF and I were rearranging the spice jars in a store to spell bad words (because someone in design thought it was such a good idea to just put big initial letters on them).

We have no plans to grow up anytime soon and we're closer to 50 than we admit to  

[Fjrocks]

  Okay so Joy, your fetus is already a baby.   So why were you on a motorcycle?  Would you take a newborn on a motorcycle? (Dear God, I hope not.)

    There is a difference between a fetus and a baby. YOU just demonstrated even YOU see them as not the same.  That's fine, that's your legal right and I will defend it. But...

     Get off the damn pulpit.  

[HarleyQuinn]

Joy has demonstrated zero free thinking. She could actually be quite "scary" when it comes to anti choice politics. (She loves wearing her stupid "I'm going to abolish abortion" shirt.) I'm kind of predicting her to go really hard against anti choice laws while pregnant. Kind of like what Anna's instagram used to be like. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

10 hours ago, singsingsing said:

That's insane. You're a legal adult at 18. Joy is 19. She's an adult. This infantalizing of people in their late teens and early 20s has got to stop. It's incredibly insulting to the people in question and it does not help anyone. The fact that your brain (supposedly) does not finish developing until the age of 25 does not mean that you're a child until that point. That's pseudoscientific bullshit.

 

Quoted for truth, and, not only that, but I would like to know when all the people who label Joy as a child now (unless they're being pejorative, like OMG, a teenager is just a baby), are planning on deciding when she can be considered an adult? There's not a finish line for being a grownup, we've all indicated that many of us regardless of chronological age, life and travel and educational and romantic experiences feel immature or certainly act immature or feel like someone else should be "adulting" in our lives rather than us.  So really, if she is a child in your mind, what are the requirements for her to be an adult? Move out, get married, start a family? Those were always the gold standards in the past for what an adult was, she's done all those things.  Blah blah she's emotionally stunted, I know.  Well, there's lots of emotionally stunted adults walking around, you guys.  I might myself be one of them.  Just saying.   

[AtlanticTug]

The only one of the lot of them who has had smooth and easy home births is Anna. Grossness of the toilet one notwithstanding.

I have a good friend who had a serious hemorrhage issue like Jessa did with her first child...you bet your ass she went and had the 2nd one at the hospital. Still midwife-led but at the hospital as a precaution. Yes all went well with Henry but "all's well that ends well" is a really stupid approach when it comes to birthing.

Jill should never, ever, ever attempt to so much as labour at home, let alone birth at home again.

Joy will just follow in their shoes. Michelle and Jana and Jill and probably Jessa will all arrive with their infinite Jesus wisdom when she feels the first contraction and she'll be doomed to repeat the same over and over again.

Nicole Naugler just had a stillbirth, after reaming out people on social media who suggested that she should, at 41, (a) get prenatal care and (b) give birth in a medical facility. Her hubris is astounding. To this day she maintains nothing would have changed had she gone to the hospital that day. Probably not, as that baby appeared to have no amniotic fluid left and judging by the photos was severely past term. BUT had she had proper pre-natal care, they would have correctly established her due date and at a minimum sent her for a non-stress test if not a biophysical profile (includes ultrasound) once she went over 40w to make sure that what happened (no fluid) does not happen. So yes, she is likely correct that her  decision once she went into labour was fine but everything that preceded it was appalling.

It is very unfortunate that I think that it would take something like that to make one of the Duggar daughters approach their pregnancies and deliveries differently. Yes, Michelle went to the hospital but they probably rationalize that away by figuring that her complications occurred when she was much older and a grand multipara. Plus she had all those VBACs, thus encouraging Jill to keep at it. Really sad to think what it would take for them to adopt a proper mindset here. I am not saying you need to get an OB and schedule a c-section but for God's sake they don't even have proper midwife care!

[luxfilia]

11 hours ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

(Snipped)

As far as looking pregnant?  Plenty of people look various degrees of pregnant even when they are not.  In my case its just fat. And a lot of it got there while I struggled with infertility related hormone weirdness, which was a little ironic.

 

 

Exactly! People tell me I'm skinny and I do exercise, but if I've had anything at all to eat/drink (and am not wearing a big, flowing top), I can definitely look quite pregnant. My gyno also mentioned before that my uterus protrudes a lot for a woman who has never been pregnant. It's just the way it's tilted and the way I'm built. I have times where I look at LEAST as pregnant as Jill does (though I'm not) and I only weigh about 130 pounds tops. Joy is probably not "sucking in" or trying to stand in a way that her belly would look flatter, like she might have before being pregnant, so the difference may just be emphasizing her actually small bump.

I for one don't think Joy is farther along than she is stating/implying. People just love to analyze women's bodies.

11 hours ago, Jessalyn said:

Lets hope Joy Shocks us and has a baby in a birthing center, setting a trend for her sisters to follow. Did Austins sister have her baby in the hospital? Maybe that will be something he can encourage her to do.

I happen to think home births are great, if desired by the mother. I've spent years researching different types of births. I just wish that she would use a QUALIFIED midwife! Makes such a huge difference.

15 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

The only one of the lot of them who has had smooth and easy home births is Anna. Grossness of the toilet one notwithstanding.

I have a good friend who had a serious hemorrhage issue like Jessa did with her first child...you bet your ass she went and had the 2nd one at the hospital. Still midwife-led but at the hospital as a precaution. Yes all went well with Henry but "all's well that ends well" is a really stupid approach when it comes to birthing.

QUALIFIED midwives do carry Pitocin or other drugs to be used specifically for post-birth hemorrhaging.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

I happen to think home births are great, if desired by the mother. I've spent years researching different types of births. I just wish that she would use a QUALIFIED midwife! Makes such a huge difference.

THIS!, I have nothing against a home birth, as long as you've had good prenatal care AND are attended by a TRAINED QUALIFIED midwife, none of which the Duggar's use.  

I wonder if Austin's sister had a home or hospital birth?  I wonder if Austin & his family would encourage them to at least get prenatal care and a licensed midwife.  Almost no one would have a problem with that, you can still have a home birth, if you want but at least you are getting the attention you need to have a healthy baby AND MOM!

[AtlanticTug]

22 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

QUALIFIED midwives do carry Pitocin or other drugs to be used specifically for post-birth hemorrhaging.

That's exactly it. I am not advocating a hospital birth or even a birth centre for them. I don't care if they want to use an OB or a qualified midwife - that should be up to the woman to decide if she is having a low risk pregnancy. Same goes for the location of the birth. There is no reason why a young and healthy woman without a history of complications and a routine pregnancy (that we know of though it's questionable whether they are even getting any prenatal care aside from JINDER ultrasounds) couldn't deliver at home safely attended by a qualified midwife.

They fail on all grounds.

[Jana814]

I hope she has a safe and easy pregnancy and birth. 

[JesSky03]

Yeah I really don't think its fair to be picking apart Joy's bump and making assumptions based on her size or eating habits when we basically have no details. I'm 15 weeks and my bump can be as big as Joy's. At this stage a lot of things can impact how big my bump looks like what I wear, what I've eaten, how long its been since I've eaten, is it morning or evening, did I poop today....And so what if she carries big? Every woman carries differently. I also would not shame her at all if she isn't eating the healthiest right now because honestly I've been eating like shit for the last 15 weeks. We went through fertility treatments and prior to getting pregnant I was determined to eat healthy and eat my daily servings of fruits and vegetables and now I can't even think about vegetables. I couldn't tell you that last time I ate one. I had Mcdonald's for breakfast today, pizza for dinner last night, and pizza for dinner the night before that. I'm hoping the food aversions come to an end soon so I can start eating healthier but for now its just eat whatever I can tolerate to survive 

[shock928]

I know this may be beating a dead horse again- but as someone who had a PPH at 25 totally healthy in a birth center, with a certified midwife she could do nothing to stop the bleeding. She tried 4 manual removals for the placenta with no pain relief, yes I'm bitter as I still have PTSD and it was hell. But in the US unless you are a nurse midwife I believe they don't have the medications to stop bleeding. I still had to transfer to hospital. No postpartum hemmorhage for my second baby, for my third baby I had a second PPH, but luckily was in the hospital. I've had many blood transfusions, I'm still affected mentally. I wish the girls got proper care. Things can go wrong really fast. Especially for first births .

[veron1que]

20 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

This is my horse to die on.  She isn't bossy, she has leadership skills. Just because a girl/woman is authoritative doesn't mean she's bossy, you never say a man is bossy, you say he is a leader.  In other words when my parents tell me I'm too bossy (have I mentioned I'm 47?)  I tell them, "No, I'm not, I have leadership skills, damnit get it right!"  

You made an assumption here that I don't call men bossy. I do. It's great that you feel the need to use different language when referring to women. I don't feel the need to make these distinctions. FYI. "bossy" is an adjective and "leader" is a noun, so I'm not sure I get your point. "Leader" and "Bossy" are not interchangeable.

[Pancakes@Tiffany's]

On 8/31/2017 at 0:09 PM, singsingsing said:

Plenty of 19-year-olds do just fine as parents. I get that it's not ideal and we all want to express our shock and sadness that Joy is stuck, has seemingly thrown away her potential, etc. but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who became parents in their teens or early 20s reading this and I think it's kind of unfair to keep up this narrative of, "Holy shit, 19-year-olds can't even tie their shoes, they'd be DOOMED if they had a baby!"

Joy has been taking care of babies from a young age. She's been training her whole life to become a mother. I'm not celebrating the fact that she's 19, married and pregnant, but she's going to be fine. 

I only worry because Jill was her sister mom. Jill isn't fine being a mother of two. I just hope Joy doesn't take parenting advice from her mother or sister/mother. Hopefully she goes the Jessa route and love her kids with love, not discipline as love.  Also a lot of people go "oh my only 19", because they know this won't be her last baby. Unless she has birthing drama like Jill, every year to year and a half she'll have another and another... When you think of it that way her being only 19 at the start is quite harrowing. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Well, the good thing is that Joy will have people around her. Her mother, Jill......she can spend time with her during the day as well as with Jessa. So she will not be isolated with a baby. And she can go to the TTH....and visit with Meechelle and her siblings. This will be supportive. She seems to me to be confident. 

And Austin does seem to have a great work ethic. That is impressive. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

24 minutes ago, Pancakes@Tiffany's said:

I only worry because Jill was her sister mom. Jill isn't fine being a mother of two. I just hope Joy doesn't take parenting advice from her mother or sister/mother. Hopefully she goes the Jessa route and love her kids with love, not discipline as love.  Also a lot of people go "oh my only 19", because they know this won't be her last baby. Unless she has birthing drama like Jill, every year to year and a half she'll have another and another... When you think of it that way her being only 19 at the start is quite harrowing. 

We don't know that Jill isn't fine with 2 kids? We have seen what 4 pics of her with Samuel?  She didn't fare well after Izzy because her idiot husband picked them up and moved them a thousand miles away in a foreign country where she didn't know anyone, didn't know the language, didn't have running water for long periods of time, there was high violent crimes and she was a new mother that had been raised with in the confines of TTH and given exactly - this much free reign of her life. She's home now with her family her friends her language & her culture.  She mostly likely will thrive.

[Pancakes@Tiffany's]

Just now, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

We don't know that Jill isn't fine with 2 kids? We have seen what 4 pics of her with Samuel?  She didn't fare well after Izzy because her idiot husband picked them up and moved them a thousand miles away in a foreign country where she didn't know anyone, didn't know the language, didn't have running water for long periods of time, there was high violent crimes and she was a new mother that had been raised with in the confines of TTH and given exactly - this much free reign of her life. She's home now with her family her friends her language & her culture.  She mostly likely will thrive.

Well excuse me for having an opinion. 

[Pancakes@Tiffany's]

The picture of Joy on the dirt bike was posted on the 20th of August, the first announcement I saw was on the 30th of August. She had to have known she was pregnant 10 days before all the announcements. She is showing a great deal in the announcement pictures. I'm not being sarcastic when I say this.

[Ms. Squishels]

I don't know or care how far along Joy is, but I was thinking about this.  Teenagers can be really good at figuring out how to get together no matter what their parents try to do to stop them.  If the baby was conceived before they got married, I'm just thinking "You go, Joy!"  I just wonder how much they try to ditch the chaperones, no matter what they say on TV.  Wouldn't that be normal behavior for any young person in love, especiallly from a strict household?  I would just love to find out that Joy was sneaking out and getting to enjoy time with Austin alone and sticking it to JB and Michelle!!  I also really think that Ben and Jessa found a little alone time before they were married too.