Joy and Austin 13: Another Duggar Pregnancy Grandbaby 10

[JenniferJuniper]

3 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

IMO, a married 19 year old having a baby isn't a "tragedy". There have been several people in this thread who have stated they had children around that age and while I'm sure some of them found life to be hard at times, most of then probably wouldn't say their life automatically ended the day they got pregnant.

Not a tragedy, not the end of the world, but I tend to feel sorry for teenagers who get pregnant by their first boyfriends, regardless of the circumstances.  

[luxfilia]

5 hours ago, shock928 said:

. But in the US unless you are a nurse midwife I believe they don't have the medications to stop bleeding.

Yes, I should add that I was thinking of a certified nurse midwife when talking about a "qualified" midwife (CNM). I live in the U.S. and in my state (TN), they do carry this.

[JordynDarby5]

 I'm not surprised by Joy's pregnancy but yes do find it sad. Because she has no other choices. She had no options or choices as to whether she wanted to go to college, a trade school, and travel. If Joy had all those options maybe she still would have married Austin and started a family early and that would have been great. Because then it would be her choice. Some people do meet the right one at eighteen or nineteen and have families young. Its not a bad thing. In the normal world they usually have a high school education, their free to go to college, and have jobs. I don't like that Joy never had choice other then marriage and children. She's never been allowed to figure out what she really wants to do. None of the kids have and that's the part that I don't like. 

[Gobsmacked]

Well said JordynDarby5. You explained really well what (I think) we are all thinking.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

One of Mr LBE's sisters is an OBGYN and visiting us. She knows nothing about fundies/who these people are. 

We just showed her a picture of Joy and asked 'how pregnant is this woman'.

Her answer?

'Woman? How old is she? She looks like a teenager......anyway. I'd say about 5 months, maybe 4 if she has had pregnancies before and her muscles are already stretched from that'. 

[Snarkle Motion]

I agree that she looks more than 3 months pregnant, but I also know people's bodies are different and respond to pregnancy differently. 

The only way I could fathom her being farther along is if she and Austin eloped or did a small church ceremony before the "official" wedding. In fact, I'm not sure why they don't all do that. That way they can practice their kiss. And the wedding is all about TLC and the big TV spectacle, I'm sure many of the kids would prefer a small service and quick engagement and use the big fancy wedding  as a more formal celebration with friends, family, and TV cameras.

[AtlanticTug]

I'll say it though I know it's rude but I think that she's just packing a lot of extra weight around the middle. That bump is REALLY squishy looking to me, very generous layer of fat. There is nothing wrong with that, she could be one of those women blessed with no morning sickness who was just starving and carb loading like crazy all of her first trimester. If I didn't have diabetes I can promise you I'd gain like 20 lbs in the first tri just eating pasta and bread. No judgment from me. In other words I think she looks more pregnant because she has gained much more weight than the recommended amount in the first three months. My SIL was the exact same way, same body type as Joy and gained 70 lbs with her first pregnancy and the same with her second. 

I've been pregnant 8 times, 6 losses at various points for various reasons. The early bump looks really different based on how much weight you put on.

I say this not to shame her at all, but because I really, really don't believe for a second that there was pre-wedding hanky panky. She's a total Kool-Aid chugger like her sistermom.

[HermioneSparrow]

Joy has a different body type, I have her body type, never been pregnant and I can assure you I would look like her if I was preggo for the first time. This speculation is ridiculous, y'all know she didn't break any duggar rule.

[BlessaYourHeart]

All this talk of how 19 year olds aren't responsible and can't look after themselves is really annoying me. Not all 19 year olds are lazy or incapable of looking after themselves. 

When I was 19 (I'm only 22 now) I was in full time uni, living on my own during the week, holding down a weekend job teaching kids to horse ride at the weekends at home. I was perfectly able to manage my time, cook, clean and look after myself. Honestly if I had of gotten pregnant I would have been able to cope, it would have been hard and I'd have to give up luxuries and freedom and I wouldn't have been able to just take my horse and travel to wherever I want for a hack. But I would have been able to look after myself and the babies basic needs. It would have changed my life path but it wouldn't have destroyed my life. 

Theres plenty of other people who were/are like me when I was 19. Two of my friends became mums at 19/20 and they are fantastic. One does it all on her own and one has a wonderful husband-to-be. They look after their now toddlers just as well as any mother in her 30s would. 

Theres a lot of things wrong with Joy's situation (like her cult upbringing) but being pregnant at 19 isn't one of them. 

Gosh this thread has just brought home how judgemental people are. Not all 19 year olds are special snowflakes who can't look after themselves without mummy or daddy. 

[SassyPants]

We haven't seen a married second generation Duggar parent who has shown that they are able to independently care for their kids without the help of JB, M or J'Slave Duggars, not physically or more importantly, financially.

If the 19 YO Joy pulls it off, she will be the first one to do so-

I'll wait and see.

[habert]

I don't find it offensive to think it's sad that Joy's fate was to be a teenage bride and pregnant a microsecond after her wedding. This is a patriarchal cult, women get no favors and being pregnant at 19 after "dating" someone for a few months is, like, part of the deal of oppressing women. LIke it's the purpose. Breed quick for Jesus as young as you can cause you love Daddy. :/

[AtlanticTug]

13 minutes ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

All this talk of how 19 year olds aren't responsible and can't look after themselves is really annoying me. Not all 19 year olds are lazy or incapable of looking after themselves. 

When I was 19 (I'm only 22 now) I was in full time uni, living on my own during the week, holding down a weekend job teaching kids to horse ride at the weekends at home. I was perfectly able to manage my time, cook, clean and look after myself.

That's sort of the point though, isn't it?

No Duggar daughter could do any of those things, not even close.

[nst]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I think the distance allows the Vuolos to more easily make their own independent decisions. I agree that for now, Ginger is better off living away from Duggarville. 

Yes you don't see her constantly putting up pictures on her instagram of Jessa. 

says volumes imo 

[BlessaYourHeart]

9 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

That's sort of the point though, isn't it?

No Duggar daughter could do any of those things, not even close.

I'm pretty sure Joy can cook and clean. Austin also seems to have a pretty decent work ethic that he can use to support the family. It seems as though the basic needs of the baby and parents will be met. Joy is capable (19 or not) of looking after this baby. 

The point is everyone seems so fixated on the fact that she is 19 and are basically infantilising her. She's a married woman with a baby on the way and is clearly capable of looking after herself and the baby. 

A 19 year old isn't a child and I'm sick of seeing people generalise all 19 year olds as being like children who need looked after. My post was more directed at people who seem to think she's going to be a train wreck of a mum because she's 19 and apparently 19 year olds are all incapable of looking after themselves when that is certainly not the case. 

Im sorry but I can't snark on her being a 19 year old mum. 

Her messed up beliefs; toeing the family cult line; denying education; spreading hate or helping to make this cult appear normal are all things I can snark on because they are fundementally bad in my opinion. But being a 19 year old mum isn't. 

[Satan'sFortress]

With my second child, I swear that I needed maternity clothes the morning after he was conceived. 

[Henk12]

There's no way we will ever know if Joy and Austin did it before the wedding but I'm sure they did not. I'm guessing Joy is a wee bit bloated and truly showing as well. No shame in that, I'd kill to look as good as she does and I'm not even pregnant. I'm 5"1 and didn't show until 22 weeks with my first but I was also a figure skater and a dancer so my abs we're pretty strong. The second and third time around I started showing as soon as they were conceived. We can't really start suggesting that Joy and Austin did the hanky panky before their wedding because every woman and every pregnancy is different. I know a woman who had a HUGE belly with her first. He was a totally average baby when he was born. When she was 40 weeks pregnant with her second she was so small that when she walked into the hospital to be induced, the nurses didn't believe she was pregnant. I don't know how, but she didn't look pregnant, just bloated. And that baby like like 7 lbs. 

Anyone suggesting that a normal 19 year old can't be a good parent needs to get over themselves. Just saying. 

[JenniferJuniper]

22 minutes ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

The point is everyone seems so fixated on the fact that she is 19 and are basically infantilising her. She's a married woman with a baby on the way and is clearly capable of looking after herself and the baby.  

Actually, I think you are missing the point of many posters who feel sorry for Joy.  

She's 19 but appears to be at the emotional level of a much younger teen.  She lives in a ghastly patriarchal world in which she's been taught her only value is being a subservient wife and willing-to-die-in-pregnancy mother. Like a piece of property, she was recently transferred from her father to her husband, her first and only boyfriend.  Now she's hurtling towards motherhood and probably 25 years of birthing babies, whether or not she stays in lust/love with her husband. Whether or not he turns out/grows up to be a total jerk.

She's been infantilized alright, but it's by the men who control her.  I wish Joy a happy life; she's always been my favorite Duggar. But she has never been given to a chance to learn who she is.  Or what she really wants for her life.  Because as a female, she doesn't matter.   And that's beyond sad.

May she have all boys. 

[PainfullyAware]

I think all @BlessaYourHeart was saying is that the earlier comment about 'how sad it was that a child was having a child' was ageist in general because 19/20 yr olds can be great Moms. 

I didn't really hear anyone saying it's good that Joy only has the choice of marriage and motherhood in life. This is her first love and because of patriarchal christianity she's locked in to the relationship for life and pregnant because they can't use family planning, instead of dating and seeing where it goes while studying or working. The lack of choice is sad. Patriarchy is sad. 

[candygirl200413]

I know we know Austin is definitely one of the better husbands because we know he can provide financial but do we have a clue about what house they're living at? I might have seen it was probs a Jboob house but just wanted to make sure

[Snarkle Motion]

@BlessaYourHeart I don't think people are judging her of being incapable of responsibility at 19, but are sad for her because she just got a modicum of freedom from the TTH that she will likely lose again with motherhood. How much time will she have for travel, camping, and dirt bike riding once this kid is born? And given her family history of fertility, and her belief system, it could essentially mean she'll have 2-3 kids by the time she is your current age and maybe 6-8 kids before age 30. 

All the Duggar girls were trained to be responsible for childcare and household duties at a very early age. There is no doubt they have abilities to care for children (although I question Jill's emotional maturity and decision making ability) but it's sad to think that Joy had no chance to enjoy being a child/teen/young adult without jumping from sister-mom to actual mom.

And I'm only a decade older than you and also would have considered myself highly responsible/mature/competent at that age but I can tell you I absolutely have grown/evolved in my worldview and outlook on life and what I want for myself. I absolutely wanted a big family starting in mid-twenties but now I'm not sure I want to try for kids (or adopt) until late 30s or even 40s. There is still so much more I want to do and experience that having kids would have prevented me from. And things I look for in a partner are very different now as I've dated more and have different perspectives/experiences than at 19 or even 25. So when people say Joy is still a kid I think it reflects the idea that she should have freedom to be young/have fun. And that she should have more experience and time to form her own identity/perspective and values on life and to "grow" in this way.

Maybe she truly wanted to jump right into parenthood - I don't think it's necessarily wrong for all 19 year olds. Alyssa Webster is someone I felt knew exactly what she wanted and was ready for motherhood at 19. But Joy has always been somewhat different from her family, like Jinger but in a different more tomboy way, and I'd like for her to have some time to experience new things, enjoy life and her husband before immediately jumping into parenting. I actually see her becoming more like Jill than Jessa - Jessa always knew what this life entailed and could see past the bullshit (same with Alyssa Webster). Jill and Joy seem to buy into the fairytale and kool aid of their lifestyle so they will be more disenchanted when reality sets in.

I get why you'd be annoyed at the millennial snowflake bashing - I hate the way our generation is portrayed too and am super quick to defend against it. But I think this is different.

[Jenn The Heathen]

I agree with @JenniferJuniperon this one.

I've known teen mothers who have gone on to do incredible things with their lives.  They were able to finish school, go to college, find careers they love and raise great kids.  I think where a lot of the "she's only 19" concerns are coming from is that this is it.  This begins the cycle of pregnant, breastfeed, try to conceive, and repeat for god knows how long for someone who hasn't had a chance to live her life.  That's it.  There's no college education coming or career aspirations or meeting people with a diverse backgrounds and learning what it is the world has to offer.  This is it, this is Joy's life now and she literally has no choice in the matter.  And to me, that's just so, so sad.

[JillyO]

I think @BlessaYourHeart is rightfully contradicting the narrative that quite a few posters follow of saying "But Joy is just a child. She's a baby having a baby. My own 19 year-old can't even wipe his own butt."

Nobody says that it's great that Joy is married and pregnant, since she really had no other choice except to remain a J'slave. But that has absolutely nothing to do with her age. If she was 22 or 25 or 30, she would not have experienced anything she hasn't experienced now. She would not be more mature than she is now. The only issue I see with her age is the potential additional years of childbearing. That's it.

[Rachel333]

I could be wrong, but I interpreted those comments as feeling kind of sad for Joy because she's starting a lifetime of childbearing so young compared to other people her age who are still just figuring stuff out and have their options wide open, not that 19-year-olds can never be good parents. I really don't get the impression that any of those comments were intended to insult young parents in general, though I can understand why some people would be sensitive about that. Still, we're talking about Joy in particular, and I do feel sad for all the female Duggars because they've had such few options in life. Maybe some would happily choose young parenthood anyway, but they've never been given any real opportunities to find out if they would prefer to do something other than be a stay at home wife/mother/daughter.

[HuggleMonster]

I'm slowly catching up. 

I really do not believe for one second that Joy did anything before marriage. She's in a cult that rams purity down your throat. She just wouldn't. 

Shes got a belly but honestly bloat, a big meal and a full bladder can all add to it. 

Im currently 6 months pregnant. Around the same as 2 other mums at my kids school. Different heights, body types, and other factors and none of us have the same belly size. Not even close to being the same. 

[SuffolkNWhat]

Where the placenta lies has a big impact on your size. With my eldest the placenta was at the back (so against my back IYSWIM) so she grew away from it resulting in a clear bump from 14 weeks onwards. My youngest the placenta was at the front so she grew into me more, I showed less with her than with her sister as a result despite being a second pregnancy and my stomach muscles not being what they were!

I also had hyperemesis both times so lost 2-3 stone in my first trimesters making my bumps more prominent than they usually would have been on my body type.