Dillards 40: Majoring in Grifting

[Snarkle Motion]

3 hours ago, calimojo said:

@Kittikatz  please call your family and let them know there is no way you gave your dad shingles.  See my other post, but people don't 'catch' shingles.  They already have it in side their nerve roots.  After a person has Chicken Pox,  the virus goes dormant and lies in the nerve roots.  When conditions are right, it re-emerges.  THings that make a person at risk for Shingles includes Exhaustion, stress, lack of sleep, immunocompromised conditions, or immunosuppressant medications, and in some cases, they happen after recovering from another illness because the body's defenses are down.  So basically anything that decreases your body's ability to keep suppressing the virus.  Pregnant woman are prone because your body is mildly immunocompromised during pregnancy to prevent your immune system from attacking the baby as a foreign body. 

So  if your dad got shingles after you had chicken pox, it was either completely coincidental, or he was suffering from exhaustion from caring for a sick and itchy kid.

By no means an expert, but is it possible that exposure to someone with chickenpox can "reactivate" the virus in someone so that they develop shingles? Like the body is not able to completely fight off the virus, despite having antibodies, and this results in a shingles flare up? Like the antibiodies prevent development from actual chickenpox but maybe the viral load is too high or  it's a slightly different strain making it hard for the body to suppress deactivation. Because I feel like I've heard of this happening before- people having  shingles outbreak after re-exposure but maybe I'm misremembering.

I also think people are more likely to get shingles now because we have less exposure to people with chickenpox - every exposure helps to "remind" your body how to fight it and since fewer people develop it now with the vaccine we get fewer chances for this. At least I think I read that somewhere.

[Chickenbutt]

1 hour ago, RosyDaisy said:

The fact that I have to qualify my last post with a reason is disturbing. For those who want one here goes. You (general) are deliberately exposing your child to a disease for the purpose of making them sick. There is no theory under which that is justifiable. It deliberately causing harm to a child. That is abuse.

You may call it abuse, I am calling it following my doctors orders...lol. I did what you are saying is abuse and I am okay with it. Isn't it interesting what was once an acceptable, common sense approach is now abuse. 

[kacarlton]

12 hours ago, Exposedknees said:

This conversation just reminds me how broken healthcare is in the US. I'm pre-vaccine age at 53 and have a compromised immune system. I had a mild case of CP at age 9. My doctor wants me to get the shingles vaccine but my insurance won't cover it until I'm 60. Do I cough up $300 out of pocket?!? UGH.

I'm 54 and have already had a mild shingles outbreak. I asked two docs about the vaccine and both didn't recommend it for me because they don't know how long it will last and it will be more
Important to have it when I'm older and at higher risk for complications.

[Kittikatz]

@RosyDaisy I get where you're coming from, and FSM knows being the vector of infection was no fun, but the pox parties were seen as doing the best thing parents could do for their kids. I remember my mother telling me that her cousin caught the pox as an adult and had to cancel her wedding because she was so sick, and that playing with other children to infect them was a good deed because it would keep them from becoming extremely ill if they caught it as adults. My pediatrician, who was well respected and taught at the medical school, even sent children to play with me. Pox was just seen as inevitable, and it was better to get it young. Thankfully we now have vaccines.

@kacarlton @Exposedknees my mother's doctor gave her the shingles vaccine when she was relatively young. He said that she should be re-vaccinated 15 years after the initial shot to maintain her immunity, so this may be an option for you. Maybe check with your doctor? The insurance not paying for vaccines the doctor wants you to have sounds messed up - I am in the process of having all my childhood vaccines redone - the health unit didn't keep records of childhood vaccines - they just gave the immunisation card to the parents, and if the parent lost it, oh well. Needless to say, my parents lost the card. As a result, I can't prove I've ever been vaccinated, and the government doesn't have a record of my vaccine history, which could be legally/practically problematic in the event of an exposure during an outbreak. A blood test showed my immunity to measles, mumps, whooping cough etc. was low (so I probably didn't get all of my shots as a child, or there was something wrong with the shots themselves) and getting the shots isn't costing me anything. They even gave me the chicken pox vaccine (in case my childhood infection wasn't sufficient), the flu shot (just because) and the pneumonia shot (doctor's orders) no questions or money asked. The whole process has taken almost a year, and I have one more session to go before I'm up to date on everything and can no longer be ordered into quarantine in the event of exposure during an outbreak. The fact that I'm excited by this prospect really shows I'm getting old... 

[Pretzel]

20 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I wish the chicken pox vaccine was available when I was a kid. My sister and I were very sick with it. My sister had her kids vaccinated.

Pox parties...WTF? That is messed up on so many levels. Sorry, but it is.

I kind of understand where you're coming from, but calling that abuse is a little...much? IMHO. I doubt that people who bring their kids to meet other kids with certain diseases do that with the intention to hurt their child. I would assume that people only bring healthy kids and do so with the intention to protect them from these diseases when they're adults.

There's a reason it's called children's diseases. I caught the chicken pox as a toddler and it barely lasted a week. My friend got it in senior year in high school and while she was uncomfortable she got through it. A family friend got the chicken pox at 30 and apparently it was hell on earth. 

Aren't the chickenpox only highly-contagious before the break out of the pox? I was under the impression that once the pox came to the surface the infected person couldn't infect others anymore but I may be completely mistaken. 

To me personally, measles are a completely different story. I am in support of vaccines against measles, mumps and Rubella. 

I have no children yet, so I don't know what drives parents to do so. I don't know if I'd do the same or if I'd act completely differently. Until I have children of my own I do not need to make that decision and I will reserve my judgment of these parents until then. 

[victoriasponge]

Afaik there's no chicken pox vaccine here in the UK on the NHS. I got shingles at age 8 and it was horrific. The doctor kept saying it was chicken pox to begin with because young kids 'don't' get shingles - except when they do like me. Teacher tried to keep me off school so I didn't give it to the other kids, had to get a doctor's note to prove that wouldn't happen, and some of the kids wouldn't play with me. I seem to remember them lasting forever. My grandmother won't get the shingles vaccine and I don't get why, I'd avoid ever having it again if I could. Ugh, I shudder just remembering it, and my mum was panicking she'd have to take a ton of time off work.

On the topic of vaccines in general, I plan on giving my kids the full course as it is here in the UK. My kids won't be getting measles on my watch, at least as much as I can prevent it.

[Dugg@rTime]

39 minutes ago, victoriasponge said:

 

On the topic of vaccines in general, I plan on giving my kids the full course as it is here in the UK. My kids won't be getting measles on my watch, at least as much as I can prevent it.

You don't always get much say in it though, my second son got measles at 8 months old, way before he was scheduled to get the MMR vaccine. He was ill, but it was nothing like all the scary stories I'd been told.

[KnittingOwl]

I'm super lucky and have had chicken pox TWICE. The first time, I was 5. I had a fever and a few spots, but it wasn't terrible. The second time, I was 10, and the infection was much worse. I remember them at the opening of my nostril and one in my ear. Have a few scars from round 2. 

I've wondered about my immunity going forward. I'd love to do a titer, but it's really hard to get insurance to cover my curiosity. 

15 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

Chicken Pox parties are a thing no longer because God forbid it could have some damaging effects on some kids who are first being exposed and now that there's a vaccine that has worked for years there's basically no reason to. Though it makes sense that you won't always be able to separate your kids when one has them, people just don't think it's worth it to invite the entire neighborhoods. Also I didn't know people used to use lollipops to spread it too

They are definitely still a thing in some anti-vaxxing groups. A friend was invited a few years ago; she lives outside of Napa, CA. She did not attend, but her vaccinated daughter still ended up catching chicken pox from a classmate. 

[JordynDarby5]

I got chicken pox during Christmas vacation when I was seven and had to miss out on all the Christmas fun. It sucked. 

[Snarkle Motion]

15 minutes ago, KnittingOwl said:

I'm super lucky and have had chicken pox TWICE. The first time, I was 5. I had a fever and a few spots, but it wasn't terrible. The second time, I was 10, and the infection was much worse. I remember them at the opening of my nostril and one in my ear. Have a few scars from round 2. 

I've wondered about my immunity going forward. I'd love to do a titer, but it's really hard to get insurance to cover my curiosity. 

They are definitely still a thing in some anti-vaxxing groups. A friend was invited a few years ago; she lives outside of Napa, CA. She did not attend, but her vaccinated daughter still ended up catching chicken pox from a classmate. 

This I can understand as a form of abuse - deliberately exposing kids to a virus that has a vaccine. But my mom was one of those moms who sent me to play with a kid with chicken pox more than 2 decades ago before the vaccine and without knowledge a vaccine was in development. She was trying to give me a mild case as a kid that could potentially save my life as an adult. That's not abuse, it was well intentioned and common practice back before the vaccine.

But the anti-vaxxer parties in the modern era put people at risk like the example you discuss where someone doesn't have full immunity despite receiving the vaccine. Also it spreads a disease potentially to people who need to rely on herd immunity such as those with immune problems that can't receive the vaccine. Spreading chicken pox could have killed an adult and there is no excuse for that. That kid you mention may never have gotten sick or been exposed to a virus that will later potentially reemerge as painful shingles. I was only 5 or 6 when I got sick and I an still remember how miserable it was, but I can't even imagine how miserable it must be in older people where it is also life threatening.

[SuffolkNWhat]

2 hours ago, Dugg@rTime said:

You don't always get much say in it though, my second son got measles at 8 months old, way before he was scheduled to get the MMR vaccine. He was ill, but it was nothing like all the scary stories I'd been told.

This is happening be more regularly in high risk areas, some trusts are bringing the vaccine in ahead of the usual NHS schedule to counteract this (Wakefield has a lot to answer for)

[WiseGirl]

Chicken Pox blew through my 8th grade thanks to someone who went to a Girl Scouts camp weekend even though she was infected, no adult seemed to know. Guess whose sleeping bag was right next to hers? I also have a number of pox scars.... So after I had it, I infected my older brother who was 16. Health department was notified and it was horrible for him. 

Due to autoimmune disease I got the shingles shot at a younger age. Hoping there is a booster by the time I become ancient. However, after this mornings news I hope I get the privilege  to become ancient. Exiting now to Quiver of Politics to discuss the increasingly scary world (thanks North Korea).

[MiddleAgedLady]

Does Derick just tweet for us to snark? 

 

 

[Italiangirl]

I don't know anymore what to think about Dwreck's tweet from Santa on is getting worst and worst. Some Times i hope He reads here and tweet thing as an answer to us otherdays i think it is all him 

[WiseGirl]

I've got to quit miss reading Santa as Satan....

[singsingsing]

"Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow." (Proverbs 13:11)

[foreign fundie]

If Derick is the calculating money grabber many here think he is, I would say this tweet is aimed at someone who is not donating to his mission even though he/she is wealthy and Derick thinks they should.

Or he is just using his random Bible verse generator for twitter and is too stupid to realize he should not go near the topic of money for the next five years, because it will remind friend and foe of his questionable fundraising past.

[Italiangirl]

1 hour ago, foreign fundie said:

"Snip"

Or he is just using his random Bible verse generator for twitter and is too stupid to realize he should not go near the topic of money for the next five years, because it will remind friend and foe of his questionable fundraising past.

Just 5 years? You feel generous to him! 

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

12 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

The fact that I have to qualify my last post with a reason is disturbing. For those who want one here goes. You (general) are deliberately exposing your child to a disease for the purpose of making them sick. There is no theory under which that is justifiable. It deliberately causing harm to a child. That is abuse.

For one, you don't 'have to' answer to anyone here. You made a statement and I asked for your reasoning. If you don't want to explain, don't. 

Second, to call that abuse is a little much, in my opinion. You could say I deliberately caused my son harm by allowing the doctors to vaccinate him--they pierced his skin with needles! He had a fever and did nothing but cry for 24 hours. Awful in the short term, but it was much better for him in the long run.

Prior to the chicken pox vaccine, exposing your child early was the 'sucks now but better in the long run' solution.  Now that there is a vaccine for it, we know better and do better. I would agree with you that a pox party NOW when the vaccine is available would be a crappy thing to do as a parent. 

As with all posts, I know tone is difficult to express through text, and just want to state that I don't mean this in a combative or argumentative way. Just a friendly opposing view. 

[singsingsing]

"There is no difference of moral principle here: the difference is simply about matter of fact. It may be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so because he believed there were no mice in the house." - C. S. Lewis

People brought their little kids to 'pox parties' before the vaccine existed because they knew how terrible the disease could be if caught at a later age, and knew that most kids who caught it early had relatively mild illnesses. They were trying to protect their children and do the best with what they had to work with. That's about the farthest thing from 'abuse' I can imagine.

[Snarkle Motion]

1 hour ago, foreign fundie said:

If Derick is the calculating money grabber many here think he is, I would say this tweet is aimed at someone who is not donating to his mission even though he/she is wealthy and Derick thinks they should.

Or he is just using his random Bible verse generator for twitter and is too stupid to realize he should not go near the topic of money for the next five years, because it will remind friend and foe of his questionable fundraising past.

Do you think this is him being passive aggressive toward Jim Bob? Like why won't my rich father in law pay for my "missionary school" aka extended  vacation. 

[LittleOwl]

Never knew there was  CP vaccine! Every day is a learning day  

I can still smell the Chamomile lotion all these years later.... 

[MiddleAgedLady]

Now he's trying to get his donation site up and running so you can give! 

 

[Jenn The Heathen]

22 minutes ago, MiddleAgedLady said:

Now he's trying to get his donation site up and running so you can give! 

Because the last round of grifting was so successful?

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

1 minute ago, MiddleAgedLady said:

Now he's trying to get his donation site up and running so you can give! 

 

My eyes have never rolled so hard. Who are these mystery supporters who are waiting on the edge of their seats to give him money? He is delusional.