Jinger 29: New House and New Wardrobe

[WiseGirl]

2 hours ago, KnittingOwl said:

I do that all the time. Sometimes it seems like I only remember the bad things/awkward moments. 

Nope, you are not alone. I'll draw some comfort from knowing I am not alone in this.

21 hours ago, nausicaa said:

@SapphireSlytherin You're not alone. I remember every time I put my foot in my mouth going back to fifth grade. And whenever I can't sleep, I get to go over all of them in my head on a cycle. Fun times. 

That's the best isn't it? Drives me crazy. I'v got enough on my plate without replaying this in my head. If anyone has successfully let this go, please tell me how.

I'm also recognizing a lot of my confessions on this thread. I can't remember the last time I've been. Maybe ninth grade and I'm a long way from high school.

[front hugs > duggs]

One time when I was in middle school, I tripped in the middle of the gym during assembly with everyone watching. This was about 15 years ago. I still think about it on a weekly basis. Sigh.

[ophelia]

Religion didn't really play huge role in my upbringing. We went to church occasionally and each year at Christmas time I would play a role in the nativity play at our church. It wasn't until my teenager years that religion or more clearly faith began to be important for me and I would nowadays call myself a Christian and also study Theology to become a religious education teacher one day. Since I'm Lutheran, confession isn't really part of our spiritual or Christian life, although there were times when I wished there was way to talk to my pastor in a way that would probably come really close to a confession. 

What I find really problematic about confession is the obligation to go there. My stepfather was raised catholic and sent to a lot of different catholic boarding schools while growing up. He had to go to confession once a week and whenever he wouldn't feel like he had something to confess he'd take a detour on his way to church to come across a tiny porn cinema in town to have something to confess to the priest.

[Four is Enough]

I read in a Rodruiges thread somewhere that their pastor "preached about modest dress for women" or some such thing.... and how "uplifting" it was.

What the actual fuck.

My Roman Catholic priests talked about actual scriptural messages. You know, "love your neighbor as yourself" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "I am the Resurrection and the Life", you know, stuff like that.

Very Rarely would the priest make an announcement, before or after Mass started, about "appropriate church wear"... as in, "don't wear your muddy soccer spikes into church," or "Female altar servers should NOT wear heeled pumps on the altar, as they might slip on the marble floors or get hooked into their garb. Safety first"

I know which I'd rather use to be uplifted.

ETA: I wanted to say something about fundy preachers and why they think female dress is something to be discussed ad nauseum from the pulpit.. 

[louisa05]

What I find really problematic about confession is the obligation to go there. My stepfather was raised catholic and sent to a lot of different catholic boarding schools while growing up. He had to go to confession once a week and whenever he wouldn't feel like he had something to confess he'd take a detour on his way to church to come across a tiny porn cinema in town to have something to confess to the priest.

 

But that was a school policy. Not a church policy. Church policy for those who have not committed a mortal sin is that you must go one time per year. I suck at this and don't go due to my own traumas in evangelicalism. BUT if you all make it through a year without ever failing in any way that hurts others by commission or omission, please tell me how that works because I have yet to attain perfection myself.

 

[OyToTheVey]

I feel like I need to write Jinger a letter.

 

Dear Jinger, 

This is your chance. You can still be religious and a Christian but you just gained freedom! Your little sister just took all the attention off of you, so go run free. Watch a movie, have date nights, listen to the radio. The world is your oyster! You can attend as many church conferences as you want but you can listen to evil satan music in the car on the way there and no one will notice! 

PS: Stay in Texas, it's good for you.

Sincerely, 

A FJ member.

[Queen]

On 27 augusti 2017 at 7:54 PM, Drala said:

Strictly speaking, the RC church teaches that "being" gay or the disposition to same-sex attraction is "disordered," which is not the same as mortal sin.  It's sex outside of marriage (regardless of whether heterosexual or homosexual) that is sinful. Being gay is not sinful. Acting on gay desire is sinful, but no different from a moral standpoint than acting on heterosexual desire outside of marriage.  Since God ordained marriage between men and women, there can be no homosexual relations that are not sinful.  However, there can be chaste homosexuals who do not commit sexual sin outside of marriage, which is what the RC church encourages its "disordered" members to do.  It's a nuanced, albeit cruel, view of homosexuality.

Here comes the Gay Brigade! (i.e. me. Do we have a rainbow emoticon? If not, we need one ) 

That view (the bolded part) is so awful. And hypocritical! It's all "we love gay people but only if they never have a romantic relationship or sex. Ever." It's so hurtful. My sister's church holds these beliefs. They say it's fair since they put some restraints on straight people too (no sex before marriage). But it's not! How can they even think it is? 

I will never accept churches that sees my same sex attraction as sinful. It doesn't matter if they think sin is something everyone commits. There's nothing wrong with my orientation and should never be. *jumps off soapbox* 

When I left the church (filled some forms online) I got a letter that they probably send out to everyone who leaves, that asked if I was really sure that I wanted to leave. They pointed out benefits like "you can marry in a church if you're a member". No, I fucking can't! Not yet at least. Or, I could always get straight-married (they say they have equal marriage already, since anyone can get married as long as they are marrying someone of the opposite sex. Aaargh!), but I could never marry the love of my life since she's another woman. Not at church. Thankfully the Finnish state is not as bigoted! 

[Drala]

36 minutes ago, Queen said:

Here comes the Gay Brigade! (i.e. me. Do we have a rainbow emoticon? If not, we need one ) 

That view (the bolded part) is so awful. And hypocritical! It's all "we love gay people but only if they never have a romantic relationship or sex. Ever." It's so hurtful. My sister's church holds these beliefs. They say it's fair since they put some restraints on straight people too (no sex before marriage). But it's not! How can they even think it is? 

I will never accept churches that sees my same sex attraction as sinful. It doesn't matter if they think sin is something everyone commits. There's nothing wrong with my orientation and should never be. *jumps off soapbox* 

When I left the church (filled some forms online) I got a letter that they probably send out to everyone who leaves, that asked if I was really sure that I wanted to leave. They pointed out benefits like "you can marry in a church if you're a member". No, I fucking can't! Not yet at least. Or, I could always get straight-married (they say they have equal marriage already, since anyone can get married as long as they are marrying someone of the opposite sex. Aaargh!), but I could never marry the love of my life since she's another woman. 

 

This is why I see the position of the RC church on homosexual orientation versus behavior as "nuanced, albeit cruel."  Celibacy is not for everyone, gay or straight, but it's prescribed if you're gay and don't want to sin in the eyes of the church because of who you love.

[nokidsmom]

Interesting thread drift.

Not Catholic, but raised Lutheran.   There was a general confession during services, with a more expanded confession / absolution setting for Sundays when there was communion, plus there was a provision for private confession and absolution if a member desired, with a setting for it in the hymnal.  

Grew up in a neighborhood that was heavily Catholic and knew a lot of the kids who just dreaded going to confession especially when they were in catechism.  

Also want to say that based on my experience with evangelicals, I have to concur with @louisa05's view.  While the ones I knew were generally a nice lot of folks as far as evangelicals go, I could not understand at all how one could live with every minutiae of one's life being scrutinized to the ninth degree and all kinds of possibilities of "sin" being read into it. 

 

49 minutes ago, Queen said:

It's all "we love gay people but only if they never have a romantic relationship or sex. Ever." It's so hurtful. My sister's church holds these beliefs. They say it's fair since they put some restraints on straight people too (no sex before marriage). But it's not! How can they even think it is? 

@Queen this sounds very similiar to the lot of evangelicals I knew.   Curious as to the church but if you want to share, you can PM me.

[Queen]

3 minutes ago, Drala said:

This is why I see the position of the RC church on homosexual orientation versus behavior as "nuanced, albeit cruel."  Celibacy is not for everyone, gay or straight, but it's prescribed if you're gay and don't want to sin in the eyes of the church because of who you love.

Yep. And that's a pretty destructive theaching that only works if you are asexual. No one is suggesting celibacy to heterosexual people because of their sexuality! 

This is an emotional subject for me so please have patience if I'm not calm and constuctive. Also internet conversations are bound to create misunderstandings since we don't see each other  

[socalrules]

No Catholic is forced to go to confession. When I was in Catholic school they only took us the Wednesday before Holy Thursday, otherwise were were in our own. My mother went to confession often when I was a kid. I usually went with her but most of the time I didn't go to confession. She didn't care if I went as it was my choice. As an adult, sometimes I go a couple of times a year or won't go for years at a time.  You aren't made to go confession any more than you are made to go to communion or church itself. It isn't as though the Church can or does keep track of what you do or don't do. It isn't as though you are going to be kicked out of the church for not going. 

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, Queen said:

Yep. And that's a pretty destructive theaching that only works if you are asexual. No one is suggesting celibacy to heterosexual people because of their sexuality! 

Nope - in fact, the suggestion to heterosexual people struggling with their sexuality is generally to get married and get married fast so that they have a 'legitimate' outlet for their sexual urges. Telling homosexual people that being homosexual in and of itself is okay, but that they must remain celibate, is, imo, more cruel than telling them that homosexuality is disordered and that they must become straight. As fucked up as that is, at least it is, in a really misguided way, offering them some kind of hope. Enforced celibacy is a gigantic 'fuck you'. "It's okay to be gay, but you're not allowed to have a sexual relationship, ever."

I am a sexual person who is celibate. I'm happy because it's a choice I've made of my own free will. No one has forced this on me. No one is telling me that I'm sinful, evil, gross, going to hell, or going to be kicked out of my religious community, if I choose otherwise (quite the opposite). If tomorrow I wake up and think to myself, "I'm sick of this, I'm gonna go find me a man to procreate with" no one will bat an eye. Similarly, priests and nuns (generally speaking) have chosen celibacy for themselves. It's like people can't understand the difference between celibacy as a choice and celibacy as a law. There's a HUGE effing difference!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Queen said:

Here comes the Gay Brigade! (i.e. me. Do we have a rainbow emoticon? If not, we need one )

(snipped)

Will these do?

Great post! 

[Queen]

@singsingsing Interesting! I often assume that there is something behind it when people say they want to have sex but won't, like they are affected by purity culture where sex is seen as dirty. Or that they have experienced sexual abuse and therefore feel uncomfortable. (You don't have to tell your reasons, it's entirely your business of course.) It might be that I just don't understand why people deny themselves something that's good. I'm sorry if that was offensive. I grew up in a church where we had to deny ourselves things because Jesus. I hated it. But no one should feel pressured to have sex! 

And yes, the notion that people have to get married to have sex is destructive. I've spent years myself unlearning the shaming of sexual needs that I grew up with. Getting married just because you are horny is seldom a good thing  (although understandable if that's the only option). 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I wonder if we'll get a filmed congratulations message to Joystin from JinJer. Also, I wonder how Jinger feels about her little sister getting pregnant so quickly. I hope JinJer don't experience any additional family pressure to join the breeders' club.

[justoneoftwo]

14 minutes ago, Queen said:

@singsingsing Interesting! I often assume that there is something behind it when people say they want to have sex but won't, like they are affected by purity culture where sex is seen as dirty. Or that they have experienced sexual abuse and therefore feel uncomfortable. (You don't have to tell your reasons, it's entirely your business of course.) It might be that I just don't understand why people deny themselves something that's good. I'm sorry if that was offensive. I grew up in a church where we had to deny ourselves things because Jesus. I hated it. But no one should feel pressured to have sex! 

And yes, the notion that people have to get married to have sex is destructive. I've spent years myself unlearning the shaming of sexual needs that I grew up with. Getting married just because you are horny is seldom a good thing  (although understandable if that's the only option). 

I didn't have sex until I met my husband because I knew my emotional state would not handle that connection and then loss of the connection well.  I wasn't ready to handle the emotions that were likely to come form sex and chose not to participate.  My parents were sex positive for the times (I'm 32) and definitely were confused by my choice.  I was never abused.  I'm happy to talk about it if you like, although I had also not had sex before so that may be different than what your talking about.

[onekidanddone]

2 hours ago, Queen said:

I will never accept churches that sees my same sex attraction as sinful. It doesn't matter if they think sin is something everyone commits. There's nothing wrong with my orientation and should never be. *jumps off soapbox*

Stay on your soap box and I'll join you. You should never have to apologize for you you are. I get all stabby how the evangelicals spew so much hate to the LGBTQ community and are so very easy to forgive or just ignore TT pussy grabbing. 

[singsingsing]

@Queen no worries! I talk about it because I think it's important to share different perspectives and choices when it comes to sexuality. Too many people feel alone and 'weird' because of different aspects of their sexuality/sexual choices, and I wish that weren't the case. 

I was raised liberal and secular and was never sexually abused. I'm definitely not asexual, and I have a very positive view of sex (I am not implying that being asexual means having a negative view of sex - just wanted to make that clear). It really mostly comes down to personal preference. I'm a somewhat eccentric person (possibly on the autism spectrum) and an introvert. I've always been totally uninterested in casual sex, and also totally uninterested in being in a romantic relationship just for the sake of it. I highly value my personal time and space and enjoy being single, and I just rarely if ever meet anyone who seems so compatible and 'worth it' to me.

That's basically it in a nutshell. There are other motivations, like I very much do not want to get pregnant, ever, and I can't use hormonal birth control or the copper IUD for health reasons; or that my teens/young adult years have been pretty rocky due to mental health issues (so pursuing a relationship hasn't seemed like a particularly healthy option for much of my life), but that's all just secondary to everything I described above. 

Celibacy has, for me, been an incredibly positive and empowering choice. I feel like I've reaped a lot of personal benefits from this choice, which I'm not going to list because I don't want to make it sound like I think this is a better choice. It's not. It's just the best choice for me, right now. It's not something I'm committed to for life. If I meet someone with whom I want to have a sexual relationship, assuming they feel the same, then I'll no longer be celibate. If not, I'll continue being celibate. That's the beauty of choice!

[Queen]

@justoneoftwo thank you! It sounds very healthy what you were doing  It's not like anyone should feel they have to have sex if they're not ready. I think I was a little late to that as well. I'm more thinking about the couples I've seen who are dying to sleep with each other but won't since someone has said it's wrong. And after the wedding they brag about how hard it was but how they still didn't "give in to temptation." Sigh. That's not yours or @singsingsing's cases though! And Sing, I think I understand now  thank you for sharing! 

And now I'm going to sleep, it's midnight over here and I'm getting tired and incoherent   

[onekidanddone]

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Celibacy has, for me, been an incredibly positive and empowering choice. I feel like I've reaped a lot of personal benefits from this choice, which I'm not going to list because I don't want to make it sound like I think this is a better choice. It's not. It's just the best choice for me, right now.

Yes, the operative word here is choice.  You are in control of your life, and are living they way it feels right to you.  

[SuffolkNWhat]

Can I just say, without getting too gushy or soppy, that I've loved reading this recent discourse about Christianity in the US?

I'm British, Buddhist and an RE teacher (do they exist outside of private faith schools in the US?). I've long found the attitudes towards religion in our two countries fascinating  considering that Christian traditions still underpin every part of our culture, politics and laws yet on some levels we seem less.... intense (for want of a better word) excluding parts of Scotland and NI. This could be the fact that the "official" religion of our Monarchy and therefore state is Church of England which, as Eddie Izzard once said, is more of a hobby religion. Yet in the US here they have the whole state church separation thing it seems religion takes on a whole new level of meaning and influence. 

I'm rambling now as it's late here and I've been lugging tables around school all day but I just wanted to say how interesting I've found this thread. 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Queen said:

I often assume that there is something behind it when people say they want to have sex but won't, like they are affected by purity culture where sex is seen as dirty... It might be that I just don't understand why people deny themselves something that's good. I

I'm not a virgin, am not asexual, and feel I'm fairly sex positive. But I've gone through long stretches (like years) of celibacy. Sometimes you just don't meet anyone you really like for a long time. And one night stands were never my thing. 

I actually think it's a lot more common among single people than people think. It's just something that's not discussed, because we all believe all our other single friends are hooking up left and right. 

[Gillyweed]

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I actually think it's a lot more common among single people than people think. It's just something that's not discussed, because we all believe all our other single friends are hooking up left and right. 

Not to mention, sitcoms are always like "You haven't had sex in TWO MONTHS?!?!?" Which makes people think not having sex every other week makes them not-normal. 

[nausicaa]

2 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

Not to mention, sitcoms are always like "You haven't had sex in TWO MONTHS?!?!?" Which makes people think not having sex every other week makes them not-normal. 

OMG, YES! Those jokes made me feel so weird when I was going through my dry stretches.

[JesusCampSongs]

2 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

I wonder if we'll get a filmed congratulations message to Joystin from JinJer. Also, I wonder how Jinger feels about her little sister getting pregnant so quickly. I hope JinJer don't experience any additional family pressure to join the breeders' club.

I hope that Jinger isn't pregnant because she doesn't want to be and not because she can't. 

Apart from the usual, passive-aggressive, "we'll be praying for you"s that she's probably already on the receiving end of, what can they really do to her? She lives far away, they won't kick her off the show (it would bring the whole situation to light and make them look bad), and even if they did, she and Jeremy are probably financially independent from the show anyway.