Jinger 29: New House and New Wardrobe

[coexist]

I think I kind of remember Ben saying something like, "Jinger and Jeremy were just recently given permission to communicate directly..." in one CO episode where everyone was discussing how "Jinge" used to never have her phone on her until Baaaaaaaabe... I only recently watched CO and binged every single episode in a few days for some inexplicable reason. I could be imagining his comment as a direct result of the Duggar-induced brain fog I'm still recovering from! 

[SuffolkNWhat]

1 minute ago, justoneoftwo said:

There was some president who did this with his wife . . . or spoke to her in another language . . . because of chaperones.  It would be great if some Duggar followed suit.

My Grandparents did this, my Bonneke was from Belgium and my Grandad was part of the Allied forces that liberated Europe after D Day. He learnt Flemish to date and then propose to her. They used to hold conversations in Flemish which they didn't want the rest of us to understand. 

[singsingsing]

Jeremy would have already filled out the questionnaire by the time there were unsupervised chats happening.

[ThunderRolls]

After watching the congratulatory video, both Jinger and Jeremy seem so "over it." Whether it's because they're having fertility issues themselves or they're sick of filming a new video for every new pregnancy, who knows. Maybe they know with Joy's pregnancy, more speculation about Jinger's fertility will be overly discussed, and they're sick of that. 

[Carm_88]

I don't know what is going on with these two but I hope that if there aren't any announcements, that it's not because of issues. I know that Jinger doesn't appear to be as fundie as Michael Bates, but if she were struggling and now Joy is pregnant. That would be tough! It seems as though this baby is a honeymoon baby as well. I hope that there is a reason behind whatever they are doing. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I think they're both just tired of the Duggar Brand, tired of the inane video requirements and the expectation that they'll make yet another one, tired of jumping when Boob says to, etc.

[singsingsing]

Jessa just posted a whole bunch of baby pictures of Jinger, for some reason. They're cute, though!

[theotherelise]

Jinger has always seemed fairly neutral during the congrats videos, so I'm not going to read much into it. TBH, her general lack of "keep sweet" was part of the reason I bought into the Jinger part of FreeJinger. I think this is just an extension of that. 

I agree with previous posters that the famous questionnaire is probably not as black/white and sex-oriented as some think. It's a pervasive and terrible belief system, but it is not a cult in the way most cults are. The Duggar's social circle includes a wider range of family types. Not everyone in IBLP is quiverful. The older Duggar kidult women also seem to have friends across a wide spectrum of their narrow belief system. 

What is a cult is TTH. But even without internet access or TV, they have access to at least this small window of larger lifestyles which still comply with their belief system and are not denounced by JB &M. That said, I think Jinger could have had conversations with girlfriends about how she felt guilty but didn't want to have umpteen kids. Maybe there was some affirmation about NFP and none hormonal BC options which are accepted by some in their community. I absolutely think that if they are preventing then it was an idea Jinger brought into the marriage and Jeremy was on board with. The reformed church is not quiverful at all, so there might have at least been hints they were on the same page. 

RE: fertility. I've done a lot of research on legit statistics about how long one should expect to try before getting pregnant. A year is a really long time if you're taking your basal body temperature every morning, checking cervix position and all that jazz, and peeing on all the OPKs. If you're timing intercourse, you have an 80% chance of getting pregnant in the first six cycles of trying. After that, only about 50% of remaining couples will get pregnant before the year is up. So you've got a 50% chance of being declared infertile if you don't have success after 6 cycles trying. (source)

I hope at the very least that everyone in the family backs off with the questions.

[NeverBeenKissed]

2 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

That said, I think Jinger could have had conversations with girlfriends about how she felt guilty but didn't want to have umpteen kids.

This! I was literally just thinking this. I think she may have had those conversations with at least Jessa. Jessa claims to have told her sisters not to ask about a pregnancy test. Maybe this also has to do with the "contentment" that Jill brought. 

Is it possible that before Jeremy & Jinger really started communicating. That Ben and/or Jessa let it slip (on purpose) that Jinger didn't want eleventy billion kids? 

[jacduggar]

54 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I think they're both just tired of the Duggar Brand, tired of the inane video requirements and the expectation that they'll make yet another one, tired of jumping when Boob says to, etc.

I don't watch CO but I was watching a video clip of some kind and it seemed like Jeremy was really stuck on them never being alone because of the film crew. It reminds me a little of John Webster, in all his BUB interviews he makes a point to say how much he loves not being chaperoned anymore. 

[Seculardaisy]

34 minutes ago, jacduggar said:

I don't watch CO but I was watching a video clip of some kind and it seemed like Jeremy was really stuck on them never being alone because of the film crew. It reminds me a little of John Webster, in all his BUB interviews he makes a point to say how much he loves not being chaperoned anymore. 

I've always gotten the vibe from John Webster that he isn't comfortable around the cameras.

I don't get that vibe from Jeremy. Jeremy seems to LOVE attention.

[NakedKnees]

54 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Jessa just posted a whole bunch of baby pictures of Jinger, for some reason. They're cute, though!

 

On the third pic on this Instagram post, is it just me, or does the writing on Jinger's cake look like spelled her name with a "G", like Ginger?

[Seculardaisy]

20 minutes ago, NakedKnees said:

 

On the third pic on this Instagram post, is it just me, or does the writing on Jinger's cake look like spelled her name with a "G", like Ginger?

I thought it was a G when I looked at it too. Wouldn't doubt it was.

[Greendoor]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I've said this before, but if that is truly what Jeremy did, he is worse than a fundamentalist. He's a sociopath. He not only deceived Jim Bob, but he deceived the woman he married and professes to love. I don't particularly like Jeremy, but even I have no reason to believe he's evil enough to act with such deliberate and cold calculation.

Or maybe they had the chance to agree, in an a tiny sort of private moment before they wedding or even the engagement.

These two did not do a conventant marriage, nor did they say during the ceremony that they solomnly swore to get pregnant everytime possible.  

[Palimpsest]

10 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

These two did not do a conventant marriage, nor did they say during the ceremony that they solomnly swore to get pregnant everytime possible.  

Are you aware that you saw an edited version of the wedding ceremony.

[SassyPants]

I truly think that Ginger, much like Alyssa W. and Josie Bates (and very likely Jenny Duggar) is just a little bit different- Perhaps, a bit more introverted and craving for a quieter and more private lifestyle. Just because people are raised in the same environment and bathed in the same Kool-ade, doesn't necessary mean that they will all turn out the same. In fact, most of the time they do not. Will these folks continue, at least for a while, to be religious, yes, but that does not mean that they will necessary be vocally evangelical or quiverful.

I will say this until the cows come home:  JB Duggar was raised in a Christian home and went to Christian schools. Has he led the same life and made the same decisions as his parents or sister? Nope. People grow up, marry, move away and often times with the experiences of life, they change their POVs. Parents age and pass on. The control JB and M have now is very fleeting. 

[jacduggar]

56 minutes ago, Seculardaisy said:

I don't get that vibe from Jeremy. Jeremy seems to LOVE attention.

Yeah, the attention being on him too. He also seems to talk over Jinger a lot, but this is only based on 4-5 videos I've seen of them together. I don't think he cares for the camera when he has to play nice about the other Duggars. 

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, Greendoor said:

Or maybe they had the chance to agree, in an a tiny sort of private moment before they wedding or even the engagement.

But not before Jeremy filled out Jim Bob's questionnaire. That's the material point.

[calimojo]

Where there is a will there is a way.  We know that Jeremy was on a mission trip at the same time as Jinger.  And there are some pictures of him being at the TTH  prior to them officially courting.  That is a big and busy household and I think it is easy to imagine they could have had conversations without being noticed.  And, based on how the pushed the physical contact boundaries, I find it feasible that they pushed other boundaries as well.  Unless JB confiscated Jinger's phone every time she went to the bathroom, or went to bed, I think they could easily  sneak in some conversations.  Jinger doesn't seem the type to rock the boat, and so maybe they didn't feel the need to check her phone, or  intensely watch her every minute of the day.  Sometimes the 'good kid' can get by with more stuff because they just float along under the radar.  And, I do think that JB treated Jeremy differently than the other suitors.  I think  he saw Jeremy as less likely to be intimidated by him, yet also had some respect for him and also,  JB is smart enough to realize that Jeremy brought a sense of normalcy to the clan.  He lived a normal life, he was an athlete, many find him to be good looking, etc. and having him join the family was to their benefit.  Plus, Derick was already losing  popularity among the fans.  The  mission was clearly not working out as anyone planned.  So they needed a strong, handsome, more mainstream guy to come in a marry one of the daughters. 

 

I think they are quietly avoiding pregnancy or at least they are not trying too hard get pregnant.  I think with minimal effort they can avoid risky times, and still be at peace with their conscience. 

I do want to say though,  with the talk of fertility,  everyone seems to assume that it would be Jinger who has the issue, but in truth it could also be Jeremy.  I don't think fertility is the issue, at least for now, but if it were it could just as easily be an issue on the man's side as the woman's. 

I also think that JB and M, would be fine with them not being pregnant yet.  I am sure they want them to have kids eventually, but I don't think they are harassing Jinger to get pregnant, or treating her differently if she isn't.  I dislike JB and M, but I don't think they are complete and absolute monsters in all things.  

For all we know, Jeremy and Jinger may have been completely transparent with JB and M and told them they don't plan to actively try for a baby for the first year.  How could they object, given that they waited a bit before having the Josh. JB and M, may not have been thrilled, but I don't think they would rescind the relationship. 

Also,  at some point, one of these kids is bound to figure out that they have more power  over JB and M.  They know all the family secrets and if daddy tries to get in the way of true love,  they could threaten to reveal some of them. 

And finally, JB has a lot of balls in the air.  He has to keep Josh out of sight, and make sure they stay afloat.  He has to keep finding new ways to make the family interesting, find new people to court his lazy brood, manage a bunch of slightly shady real estate situations, etc.  He has to find housing for Joe and Kendra, and manage the PR disaster that is Derick and Jill.    At some point in time, he is probably just glad to have one more kid out of the house.  If I were JB the prospect of having 19 deadbeat kids and their families to support would start to keep me up a night.

 

 

 

 

[theotherelise]

It would truly have been terrible if Jeremy misrepresented himself to Jinger. As much as I assume he still "leads" their family decisions, it seems to me that at some point they got on the same page about some things in their life. For instance, the 6 months of no family and something about fashion choices. (I know I know, it's only a choice because the headship allows it, but I think there could be some unified desires in the mix too).

I'm not a Jeremy leg-humper, but out of all the courtships, theirs felt the least fluffy and teenager dating to me. IDK maybe it was just Jeremy being older or Jill/Derrick in comparison being so insufferable. While I can't imagine them having secret conversations conspiring to wear pants and buy condoms, I can see them sharing links and discussing sermons in the more mainline evangelical stream which give a less extreme interpretation of be fruitful & multiply. There could have been some general conversation around how they each saw their lives in a few years. 

[Analytica49]

23 minutes ago, calimojo said:

-snip-

I think they are quietly avoiding pregnancy or at least they are not trying too hard get pregnant.  I think with minimal effort they can avoid risky times, and still be at peace with their conscience. 

-snip

I don't think avoiding risky--that is, fertile--times only takes "minimal effort." They are young, they are likely both very interested in having sex. Women are often very sexually motivated right around ovulation.

On top of that, sperm can survive for several days inside a woman's body. So, avoiding the chance of conception may very well take 1) a lot of planning and calculation, and 2) a lot of will power.

I could be wrong about all this. But, when I was their age (and for a long time after), I sure would not have been able to avoid "risky times"! I'm very glad that my sweetheart and I did not have to rely on just will power to prevent conception. We were fortunate to have the freedom to use very effective contraception.

[NotQuiteMotY]

9 hours ago, DillyDally said:

Watched the videos without sound (let's face it, they all say the same every.damn.time anyway), but thumbs up for Jinger's low neckline   

Free Jinger's collarbones? 

Since they met each other before Jeremy filled out the questionnaire, there's a chance some mention of not necessarily wanting twenty kids of their own came up in conversation, or the idea of NFP not being an abortificant method like the pill (I know, I know, but they don't), or any number of possibilities that would allow them to feel each other out on the topic. Or maybe in the questionnaire Jeremy said that he would accept whatever God and Jinger decided and JB okayed that. We don't know, especially since we still don't know and rightfully shouldn't unless they choose to tell us whether they're preventing or not. Either way, if one or the other decided unilaterally, a la Jeremy lying, there's a problem, but if it's something they had an idea of going on, who cares? I do hope that this long without a baby is by choice rather than fertility issues, though, since that's a hard route to hoe and even harder in quiverfull, especially when you have two sisters with honeymoon babies.

[singsingsing]

I think if Jeremy and Jinger were fully on the same page about family planning before they got engaged, then Jim Bob was on the same page, too. I cannot believe that they would have had enough opportunity, before Jeremy filled out that questionnaire, to have the kind of private conversations necessary to establish their views on family planning. If Jeremy deceived Jim Bob before he began courting Jinger, then by extension he deceived Jinger as well, and he didn't know her well enough at that point to know how she would feel about that. 

[Gillyweed]

Do you really think JB would turn away a guy his daughter was interested in if he put "I want about 6 kids" instead of "however many god gives me"? Out of everything he must ask on the questionnaire, I have a hard time thinking that'd be the deal breaker. 

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

Do you really think JB would turn away a guy his daughter was interested in if he put "I want about 6 kids" instead of "however many god gives me"? Out of everything he must ask on the questionnaire, I have a hard time thinking that'd be the deal breaker. 

It very well could be. We don't know that any form of family planning would not be a deal breaker to him. Even if it weren't, I'm sure he'd grill the guy on how exactly he was planning to limit his family size. Remember, these people believe that taking the pill = murdering babies.