Jinger 29: New House and New Wardrobe

[Seculardaisy]

3 hours ago, Seren Ann said:

Jinger REALLY doesn't seem thrilled. I think this is the least enthusiastic of their silly congrats videos I've ever seen. If I were Joy I'd be a little put off.

She didn't seem thrilled to me either.

I'm not implying infertility or anything but she definitely seemed like she was just going through the motions and saying what was expected. Her face didn't read of excitement.

[SnazzyNazzy]

Honestly, I thinking making a Duggar "congrats on your blessing" video, is probably about as thrilling as us making a "oh look, the sky is blue" video.

[Seren Ann]

2 hours ago, danni9242 said:

 Jinger is one of the few who I would say never came across as all that excited or willing to take care of the little ones. 

I agree that she is not the most enthusiastic about children, but if she sees it as her holy duty, she will go ahead and do it whether she is overjoyed at the idea, like Jill, or not. 

And about the following the headship part... I just cannot believe that Jim Bob would ever allow a man to marry his daughter who wanted to prevent children. He has a 50 page questionnaire he makes them fill out ! I cannot believe it's not one of the questions, and one of the main ones at that. I just don't think a man can admit to wanting to space children out and be allowed to go on to court one of the Duggar daughters. To the Duggars, that's being in open rebellion towards God and not something they take lightly. And I don't think Jeremy would be deceitful enough to lie to Jim Bob and then turn around after the wedding and suddenly tell Jinger he doesn't want kids right now after all. Lying is also a big sin in their beliefs, and as a rather righteous pastor I don't think he would voluntarily go for such a tactic.

This is just my opinion but following the law of parcimony, it seems less unlikely that they are just taking longer to conceive, than that they are secretly going against the belief systems (that they have been raised in or have explicitly chosen by marrying this particular girl with all her baggage) by secretly doing something that their whole community believes to be a sin. According to the CDC 1 in 8 couples have trouble getting pregnant or maintaining a pregnancy. With 19 Duggars it wouldn't be surprising if 2 or 3 ended up having a bit of trouble having children. 

[SuffolkNWhat]

Tbf pre Spurgy Jessa didn't seem overly maternal and she (at least appears) is doing good with her boys. Before my children I wasn't particularly maternal (despite being a teacher) yet I adore them now. 

[coexist]

Re: the 50pg questionnaire... (I haven't posted often enough since the new layout and I have no idea how to truncate a quote, sorry!) I'm sure Jeremy filled out the questionnaire with answers that passed muster, but who's to say he meant any of it (or at least the part(s) of it dealing with the quiver)? I'm a full blown atheist, but I'm also a pastor's daughter well versed in the Bible, steeped in SDA's own special flavor of fundie Kool-Aid. If I were a guy needing to pass JB's questionnaire to nab a helpmeet, I could. And could easily keep things up until transfer of ownersh-- until after the vows. : ) Then maybe it's pants, sneakers, v-cut tees, and eebil contraception because HEADSHIP. (Or maybe they just haven't gotten preggers yet, idk.)

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, coexist said:

Re: the 50pg questionnaire... (I haven't posted often enough since the new layout and I have no idea how to truncate a quote, sorry!) I'm sure Jeremy filled out the questionnaire with answers that passed muster, but who's to say he meant any of it (or at least the part(s) of it dealing with the quiver)? I'm a full blown atheist, but I'm also a pastor's daughter well versed in the Bible, steeped in SDA's own special flavor of fundie Kool-Aid. If I were a guy needing to pass JB's questionnaire to nab a helpmeet, I could. And easily keep things up until transfer of ownersh-- until after the vows. : ) 

I've said this before, but if that is truly what Jeremy did, he is worse than a fundamentalist. He's a sociopath. He not only deceived Jim Bob, but he deceived the woman he married and professes to love. I don't particularly like Jeremy, but even I have no reason to believe he's evil enough to act with such deliberate and cold calculation.

[coexist]

Just now, singsingsing said:

I've said this before, but if that is truly what Jeremy did, he is worse than a fundamentalist. He's a sociopath. He not only deceived Jim Bob, but he deceived the woman he married and professes to love. I don't particularly like Jeremy, but even I have no reason to believe he's evil enough to act with such deliberate and cold calculation.

I agree. That would be horrible! Unless they somehow had an opportunity to really talk in their pre-courtship phase and she intimated certain things to him, but in what reality would that have happened? 

[seraaa]

19 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I hope that Jinger isn't pregnant because she doesn't want to be and not because she can't. 

 

I really hope so too. I don't wish that on anybody. 

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, coexist said:

I agree. That would be horrible! Unless they somehow had an opportunity to really talk in their pre-courtship phase and she intimated certain things to him, but in what reality would that have happened? 

Yeah, that's the problem. If they'd had an opportunity to have a lot of good, in-depth conversations, and based on that he'd cheated on Jim Bob's questionnaire in order to fulfill his and Jinger's true wishes? No problem! In fact, I'd applaud him - both of them! But we can be pretty damn sure that never happened, sadly.

[Audrey2]

But if I think about the question, "Would you have as many children as God gives you?" that can be open to some interpretation. You may "lose interest" at certain times of the month or you may choose not to boink like bunnies, and still be open to what God gave you, but you just choose to give him fewer opportunities. To be blunt, I could answer yes, but choose not to spend my most fertile days in bed.

[justoneoftwo]

I can even answer yes and use a barrier method.  I'll have as many as G-d gives me, do you really think G-d can't overcome a condom?  

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

But if I think about the question, "Would you have as many children as God gives you?" that can be open to some interpretation. You may "lose interest" at certain times of the month or you may choose not to boink like bunnies, and still be open to what God gave you, but you just choose to give him fewer opportunities. To be blunt, I could answer yes, but choose not to spend my most fertile days in bed.

This is one thing I mostly agree with. I think, depending on how the question is phrased, it could be open to some form of interpretation, especially with regards to, say, NFP. But I sincerely hope that if Jeremy simply answered, "Yes" and meant "We're going to use NFP" he discussed it with Jinger and she was on board. Otherwise, he sucks.

One thing I haven't really seen brought up, though: we're not even sure that question is on Jim Bob's list. For all we know, despite their quiverfull mentality, he thinks that's something each individual couple is allowed to decide. Or perhaps he's only concerned about the use of hormonal birth control, and anything else is up to the couple's discretion. Jim Bob did always used to say that any future pregnancies were entirely up to Michelle, and I'm honestly not sure he was full of shit. I think if she had said, "Jim Bob, I can't do this anymore. We have to use NFP" he would have agreed. 

As for his questionnaire, we can make some educated guesses, but we just don't know.

[HarleyQuinn]

Jinger did not look pleased at all, and I doubt it was because she was sad for Joy. 

I was thinking they were preventing somehow, now I'm not so sure. 

[danni9242]

30 minutes ago, coexist said:

I agree. That would be horrible! Unless they somehow had an opportunity to really talk in their pre-courtship phase and she intimated certain things to him, but in what reality would that have happened? 

I think with Jeremy's parents as counsellors/chaperones they could have had some REAL conversations about family planning. The Vuolos clearly limited the number of children they had, girls wear pants, kids go to college etc so they are unlikely to only push endless babies etc to couples they counsel. The questionnaire is easy enough. 'I want to seek what God wants for us in terms of family size and timing'. Easy enough to say you feel like it is not the right time/God says you will only get 3 kids etc. There are plenty of biblical examples of 'Godly waiting' and limited family size/singular children.

[singsingsing]

I think the possibility that Jeremy said, "I definitely want children, and I want to be open to God's plan for our family, but I also believe in some form of family planning. I've prayed a lot about it and I really feel that God is calling me to focus on our marriage for the first year. Of course we would not use any form of birth control that could cause miscarriage and we would be totally open to any 'surprise' blessings God might give us during that time. After that point we would continue to seek God's will for our family" - and Jim Bob saying, "That sounds great, Jeremy. If Jinger agrees, and you both talk and pray about it and feel that this is God's plan for you, you have my blessing."

I mean, I think there's a less than absurd chance that JB would be open to reasoning like that.

Jinger and Jeremy kind of exist in this nebulous state to me, where I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were preventing, but I also wouldn't be at all surprised if they weren't. Not all fundies are quiverfull, the vast majority of conservative evangelical Christians are not, and the lines between fundie, fundie-lite, and conservative evangelical are often very blurry. The fact that Jim Bob and Michelle enthusiastically embraced quiverfull ideology doesn't necessarily mean it's their hill to die on when it comes to their children. It may be more negotiable than we think.

Or maybe not. I guess I've resolved nothing and I'm just yapping. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

23 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

As for his questionnaire, we can make some educated guesses, but we just don't know.

Wonder if there's any way to find a copy of this questionnaire... Maybe wikileaks has it??? Haha

[Suz8710]

We got JB & M, J & B and J & J (the only really appropriate one, imo, due to sheer distance from Duggarland). Where's the Jana and whoever can be wrangled up to be in the frame with her congratulatory video?!

Also now I'm wondering why J & D didn't film.

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Wonder if there's any way to find a copy of this questionnaire... Maybe wikileaks has it??? Haha

lol I wish. Seriously! I would love to see that questionnaire. I'm incredibly curious about what's on it. I wish someone could convince him to release a copy, as a ministry to other fathers with kids of courting age or whatever, haha.

[SamiKatz]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I've said this before, but if that is truly what Jeremy did, he is worse than a fundamentalist. He's a sociopath. He not only deceived Jim Bob, but he deceived the woman he married and professes to love. I don't particularly like Jeremy, but even I have no reason to believe he's evil enough to act with such deliberate and cold calculation.

Maybe he did it with Jinger's knowledge and approval though.  They seemed pretty het up to get married, so perhaps they mutually agreed that he would answer as needed to bring that about.  It doesn't necessarily mean he was dishonest in his answers, just maybe fudged them enough to get by.

 

[justoneoftwo]

8 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

Maybe he did it with Jinger's knowledge and approval though.  They seemed pretty het up to get married, so perhaps they mutually agreed that he would answer as needed to bring that about.  It doesn't necessarily mean he was dishonest in his answers, just maybe fudged them enough to get by.

 

But when would they have met to discuss this?  They would have had to have some privet conversation.  I suppose its possible that Jessa and Ben could have been involved, but that seems a bit of a stretch.

[Coconut Flan]

They were having what seemed like multiple times a day private phone conversations in a couple of the episodes.

[SamiKatz]

3 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

But when would they have met to discuss this?  They would have had to have some privet conversation.  I suppose its possible that Jessa and Ben could have been involved, but that seems a bit of a stretch.

I think it's also very likey that depending on who their chaperones might have been, they would have been able to have a few conversations that would have gone over the head of some of the younger kids.  Maybe they spoke pig latin, lol.

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, Coconut Flan said:

They were having what seemed like multiple times a day private phone conversations in a couple of the episodes.

They got private phone calls?  I thought that was not allowed?  Also that was after he passed the questionnaire wasn't it?

[singsingsing]

I seriously doubt that Jinger and Jeremy had the opportunity to have the sort of private, in-depth, heart to heart conversations that would be required to mutually decide on something like that before Jeremy filled out Jim Bob's application.

[justoneoftwo]

12 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I think it's also very likey that depending on who their chaperones might have been, they would have been able to have a few conversations that would have gone over the head of some of the younger kids.  Maybe they spoke pig latin, lol.

There was some president who did this with his wife . . . or spoke to her in another language . . . because of chaperones.  It would be great if some Duggar followed suit.