Dillards 38: Still Chewing on that Foot in His Mouth

[Rachel333]

42 minutes ago, calimojo said:

@JillyO  I am confused by what you wrote re: language fluency.  My sister took 2 years of HS Spanish and then lived with a family in Northern Spain for 3 months, and when she returned she was what I would define as fluent.  She was fully capable of carrying on full conversations in Spanish and could read it well. 

I'm just a language student, but that probably goes back to the fact that everyone defines fluency differently. What you describe alone isn't what I would consider fluent, for example.

I'm realizing that I have stricter standards for fluency than most people. After years of studying French, including a summer in France, I can read just about anything and hold a conversation easily, so people (like my mom, haha*) who don't speak French assume I'm fluent, but I know how much I still don't know and I don't feel comfortable calling myself fluent. (I did meet a native speaker last year and talked to him for a bit, and he complimented me on my fluency, which was flattering!) For reference, I'm probably at a C1 level.

*I think moms just like to brag! I knew a girl whose mom liked to brag about her speaking Latin fluently, which that girl disputed as it's not even a living language! My mom also had a friend who bragged about her daughter being fluent in Arabic after her daughter had taken Arabic in college for all of a month. 

[Cheetah]

I have to put in a plug here for the Concordia Language Villages summer camps, if any of you in the US are ever interested in having your kids learn a foreign language.  My son just came back from his second summer camp there and learned so much conversational German.  He has never taken German at school (our school doesn't offer it) and dh and I both did German in high school (and me in college as well) but only speak it at home for fun rarely... it's not anywhere near being something the kids hear regularly.  The program offers something like 13 different immersion language camps, ranging in duration from 1 to 4 weeks.  It's in Bemidji, MN, but they have a well-established travel system where your kid can fly unaccompanied minor into MSP and they pick the kids up and get them to Bemidji.  Not cheap, but on par with other sleepaway camps in the price per week category.  And unlike a lot of academic camps, this one also has traditional camp activities like campfire, silly games, and swimming, except that all activities are in the target language.

[Rachel333]

@Cheetah That looks pretty cool! I looked at the website and they have adult programs too, which seems like it would be a lot of fun. I'll definitely keep that in mind for myself if I ever have the time and money! (I have the time right now, but not the money. I guess that's the problem: you rarely have both at once!)

[FleeJanaFree]

Echoing that Coffee Break Spanish podcast  is fantastic. I seriously struggled with Spanish in school; I retained as much as JimBob. ("Hola!") Coffee Break is a much better teacher! The lessons are short, about 20 minutes each. There are two podcasters, a teacher and a student. Listeners learn along with Kara, the student. It's fun and pleasant to listen to, with adequate repitition. You can pay for notes, but I tend to listen, pause, and google the words for correct spelling, and then re-listen while reading my notes. Highly recommend! I expected to do worse as an adult learner, but I've impressed myself. It's one of the reasons I'm so shocked The Dillard's have appeared to fail at learning Spanish-immersion is supposed to be the very best way to learn, they should blow me out of the water.

[calimojo]

41 minutes ago, JillyO said:

@calimojo: Not sure how what you wrote corresponds to what I was saying. Or maybe you just tagged the wrong user?

Oops, I probably did, sorry. 

 

[Rachel333]

Memrise is also great for learning vocabulary (and anything else you want to memorize--it's not just language courses). Anyone can add a course so there's a course for just about any language you can think of. I don't think I've ever not found a course when I searched for a language. My dad is currently traveling to a tiny country and I looked to see if memrise had a course on that country's particular creole, which has about 10,000 native speakers, and sure enough, they did!

It also has courses to go with the Duolingo courses, so it's a great complement to Duolingo.

[potato]

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

And actually, this is really weird, but sometimes I find myself switching to Mandarin mid-sentence when I'm speaking Spanish!

I know what you mean!  At various points of my life, I've taken Greek, Spanish, French, Mandarin, and Arabic and I do the same thing!  The time that stands out to me most is when I wanted to say that a ticket was 5 Euros in French class.  However, I blanked on the word for five in French (even though it was my fourth year of taking it- oops!) and almost said wǔ (five in Mandarin) instead!  Thankfully, I caught myself in time because my French teacher would've thrown a fit otherwise.  

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

@Miggy: could you please apply your assessment to the orange tyrant (Trump) because according to him everything is great; really, really great - the best.  I'm serious, his vocabulary is significantly limited.

[lawlifelgbt]

@CheetahI went to Waldsee FIVE times as a kid! I just loved it! My parents had to pry me out of camp with a crowbar on the last day, lol.

But when I was 15 and went for the last time, I was grouped with a bunch of advanced, but mischievous kids. Did we ever sow chaos! You ought to ask your son whether he ever saw the random stains on the Gasthof CEILING from where we got into a chocolate mousse fight.

[MiddleAgedLady]

5 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I see that Maryland flag! Is that a pillow?

Yes! My husband was raised in Maryland. I bought it on Amazon. 

[elliha]

Coffee break Spanish was great. I usually do not like pod casts but I really liked this. I have wanted to improve my Spanish but found myself a bit too bad at Spanish to really like watching a regular TV-show but still much better that the very basic recordings I had been able to find. The intermediate lessons were perfect for me to start with, now I can listen without having to be absolutely focused but still learn a new word or two and repeat some grammar rules. 

[seraaa]

I usually refer to the CEFR when gauging language level [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages] but there are others. The US, for examples, uses the ILR scale [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale]

(If you complete a languages degree at university, you should be working at C1/C2 level, in theory)

[SilverBeach]

I'm black. Please don't let a bad interaction with one black person color your (the general "your")opinion of all of us. That's called prejudice and is something we must all work to avoid as it is dehumanizing. This goes for all groups. 

[Fluffy14]

If we really think about it these are their words. Sweet, precious, attentive, jurisdictions, surreal, blessed, God , church and Bible. There ya go .

 

[SilverBeach]

@Cheetah, I sent DD to Concordia Language camp when she was twelve. She flew in and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Lizzybet]

On 8/11/2017 at 7:40 PM, Fluffy14 said:

The same can be said for some groups like YWAM......you can stay as a guest for a short period, like a few days......but if you want to join in for any length of time you pay.  And if you join staff you are committed to pay all your living expenses, but you are not on your own schedule to jet off whenever you want you are there for a contracted time. 

@Fluffy14, what is YWAM, please?

[Destiny]

4 minutes ago, Lizzybet said:

@Fluffy14, what is YWAM, please?

Youth With a Mission - https://www.ywam.org/wp/about-us/

(I was once involved with them.)

[SassyPants]

15 hours ago, Foudeb said:

Why are we surprised it would take an adult longer? Adults have to earn a living and keep a household going and usually have some sort of social life before they can spend time on language learning. 

Wait- are you talking about this with relationship to the Dullards (I will no longer be correcting this auto-correct) or any of the Duggars? If so, surely you jest. They don't do any of those things.

[lomo6]

7 hours ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

@Miggy: could you please apply your assessment to the orange tyrant (Trump) because according to him everything is great; really, really great - the best.  I'm serious, his vocabulary is significantly limited.

Trump grew up wealthy and went to prestigious schools (including UPenn), so the theory wouldn't apply. 

[Beermeet]

22 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

Same here. I'm from an upper middle class background and was read to extensively as a child. This is something I never would have thought to consider. I mean, I knew SOTDRT hasn't given her best education but I didn't realise her vocabulary was so lacking and how that translates when learning a different language. 

Also, us readers and non-victims of bad homeschooling or stressful poverty with a crappy public school education with no parental support, don't stop reading and learning after HS.  The Duggars seem to just call it a day on the learnin'.  Don't seem to read anything but the bible and easy devotional type books.  So, yeah, makes sense if you are not well versed with a stash of $10 words in your native language,  that another language would be limited as well but even more so.

 

@laPapessaGiovanna. I have witnessed the Italian to Spanish speaking you speak of!  My grandmother is Italian and therefore fluent in Italian and English.   When leaving church with my grandparents years ago an older Spanish woman needed a ride home. She spoke Spanish and gma spoke Italian and they did just fine!  They chatted the whole ride!  I speak some Spanish so, I chatted too.  It was amazing!  I used to understand Italian much better then now.  I moved away 20 years ago and hear no Italian.   It did help with my Spanish learning in school though.  

[VelociRapture]

My personal theory regarding Jill's lack of Spanish proficiency is that she's the victim of both a subpar education and shitty parents who didn't encourage intellectual curiosity. It's tough to find time to read and learn when you're responsible for an infant and for helping to run a household at the age of 8 - which is how old Jill was when Joy was born (and likely when Joy was handed over since she'd have been six months old a few weeks before Jill turned 9.)

[Beermeet]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

My personal theory regarding Jill's lack of Spanish proficiency is that she's the victim of both a subpar education and shitty parents who didn't encourage intellectual curiosity. It's tough to find time to read and learn when you're responsible for an infant and for helping to run a household at the age of 8 - which is how old Jill was when Joy was born (and likely when Joy was handed over since she'd have been six months old a few weeks before Jill turned 9.)

Totally.  It's not fair and not her fault.  She was never given a chance.  None of the kids seem ( from that they share at least) to have a passion for a particular subject.  If they do, they don't seem to encouage it with the no college rule.  JD has his plane and it is impressive to be able to fly a plane and learn about the plane to do the checks before flying.  It served JB so, it was encouraged.   Same with flipping houses and stuff.  Good skills to have but, really?  They all happen to want to do that?  Doubtful.  I mean, the girls can't even open bakery if they wanted with an aquired property.  Sucks.  Not cool parents.

[Cheetah]

7 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

@CheetahI went to Waldsee FIVE times as a kid! I just loved it! My parents had to pry me out of camp with a crowbar on the last day, lol.

But when I was 15 and went for the last time, I was grouped with a bunch of advanced, but mischievous kids. Did we ever sow chaos! You ought to ask your son whether he ever saw the random stains on the Gasthof CEILING from where we got into a chocolate mousse fight.

Awesome!  My sister went to the Russian one back in the day (um, around 30 years ago...) so that's how they were on my radar, but I've been so impressed with them.  My son keeps busting out new German songs I didn't know he had learned.  And their immersion system with lots of fun activities means the kids get over the hump of being terrified of speaking when they aren't perfect.   (I learned the more traditional way with the once a day school class starting in 7th grade and was always great at grammar, conjugations, etc, but was terrified to actually speak German to a real German :-) .. .and you don't really get any better at conversational anything without trying it.

5 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

@Cheetah, I sent DD to Concordia Language camp when she was twelve. She flew in and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Yay, another one!  Which language did she do?  I want my youngest (now 12) to try it next summer.  He hasn't learned any language in school yet but seems interested in French (which is offered at our high school, along with Spanish and Mandarin).

[Jinder Roles]

@VelociRapture. I agree with you. I also believe she was living in a constant state of stress/anxiety (justified or not) while in Danger America.

I can personally attest to how little you are able learn when in constant state of anxiety. The body is in survival mode and things Ike subjunctive tenses and vocab take a back seat.

[SassyPants]

It's even tougher to learn how to read and comprehend when books beyond the Bible and Prince Charming are forbidden.