Dillards 33: Now Including Samuel

[BabyBottlePop]

5 hours ago, season of life said:

The thought of 200 Duggars running around genuinely terrifies me 

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I bet that a few generations down the line, they'll (meaning Duggar Descendants) start marrying each other. Cause who else is specshul and faithful enough? Who knows how many we'll end up with. 

[Quiver Full of Kittens]

Emotionally I'm very much a product of "Go to your room and fix your face. You can come out you're pleasant to be around." So, I'll keep it together in public and come off as very cold/unfeeling/indifferent. Which, to be honest, has gotten me in a lot of trouble when other parties were looking for certain reactions and I just had RBF going on. In private is a whole other story but it's not like I can say "I know right now I'm channeling Vulcan, but I'll be thinking and stewing all night tonight about this."

[lumpentheologie]

12 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Are you a crier yourself?  Because I am stoic like Jessa (with a more emotionally flamboyant sibling like Jill), and I have been Jessa in that interview more times than I can count with my sibling's tears.  In an attempt to explain (and this post got out of hand and is NOT directed at you at all, just an expression of what it feels like to be in Jessa's shoes), it's not cruelty or direct anger or any meanness, it's really more that I am TRYING to express and process MY emotions too, but I feel unable to do so because my sibling here is taking up ALL THE EMOTIONAL SPACE with her tears.  I feel angry that there isn't space for my emotions. I feel frustrated and upset that my sibling is hogging all the emotional space.  I am hurt that she is disregarding my emotional needs and taking up more than her fair share for hers.  I feel incredibly dehumanized because I feel like I am not being given the resources to be a human being in this setting.  And that might not be my sister's FAULT...but also she's the one taking up the space.

I am a crier.  I cry at everything. I've cried at commercials.  I've cried five times in the last four days. It's not something I can control, it just happens. Usually it doesn't last super long, but sometimes it does. 

It bothers me that people would get angry at me for something I can't help. Also I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with crying. I don't think me crying means that anyone around me should just suppress their feelings and drop whatever they're doing to comfort me. As a frequent crier, I'm really used to dealing with myself crying and it usually doesn't mean that I'm in some kind of deep crisis or really not okay.  If that is really the case, I will try to do something else to signal that (like say I'm not okay). 

My fiancé often assumes that there isn't room for his feelings if I'm crying, but I think he needs to work on expressing himself in the face of me crying. Me crying shouldn't stop him from being able to express his feelings too. I can still listen when crying. Me crying is not his problem to solve.  He agrees with this and is working to try to prioritize his feelings.  I get that being around someone crying can be distracting, but I don't agree that it doesn't give someone else space to be a human being, or that crying is some kind of emotional failure that merits contempt. 

If a frequent crier really does want everyone to drop everything and shut down their feelings and tend to them, that's a problem with the person, not with crying itself. 

[VeganCupcake]

1 hour ago, BabyBottlePop said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I bet that a few generations down the line, they'll (meaning Duggar Descendants) start marrying each other. Cause who else is specshul and faithful enough? Who knows how many we'll end up with. 

I'm scared that a few generations down they will start marrying each other BY ACCIDENT. How are they going to keep count of all their hundreds (maybe thousands?!) of relatives? 

[nst]

they didn't get the cover (Julianne Hough from DWTS got it ) not even a sidebar - so something is up 

maybe in two weeks when she can actually stand 

 

[backyard sylph]

My husband used to call me Spock. But it isn't that I'm not very very emotional; it's that I try not to let my emotions enter the decision-making field. Actually, nothing upsets me more than bad or misapplied logic. Drives me nuts. But when I've tired of an argument with someone who can't see that, I'll just withdraw and speak even more formally than before.

The idea that ordinary people are crying as a mechanism to deny others their own emotional outlet is one I cannot fully grasp. It sounds sort of...center of the universe, to me. Of course, that doesn't preclude people who are actually mentally abusive; I just don't think most people are, just by being upset on the outside. Emotional release isn't merely theatrics; it seems awfully cold to assume that. Validating each other as autonomous humans is about the least we can do.

[singsingsing]

11 minutes ago, VeganCupcake said:

I'm scared that a few generations down they will start marrying each other BY ACCIDENT. How are they going to keep count of all their hundreds (maybe thousands?!) of relatives? 

If they're actually marrying each other by accident, they'll be far enough removed for it to be genetically irrelevant. They're not going to accidentally marry their first or second cousins. Even if they unwittingly became interested in one of them, for some reason not realizing who they were, someone in the family would definitely know and set them straight, probably before a courtship ever began. Family plays such a huge role in their culture that I imagine it would be next to impossible for them to get married without realizing their connection.

My dad has like 100 first cousins. He doesn't know most of them. I probably have like 200 second cousins running around out there. I have no idea who the vast majority of them are. I've done DNA testing and had random people pop up as second cousins who I'd never heard of in my life. But it's pretty easy to figure out, once you get to talking, how you're related.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I've never seen any footage of Josh having friends. I think the Bontragers or the Bates visited and they did handshakes, but I never saw him forge more than an acquaintanceship, and even then, those were arranged for him. I've never seen any pictures or reports of him out with friends.

Who did he go to the strip club with? Who were Josh's groomsmen? Has Josh ever connected with another human being on more than a superficial level? 

SNIPPITY SNIP!

I don't recall seeing any of Derick's friends, but in his defense, as a runner, mascot, and "missionary," he clearly prefers working independently. I don't see him as the type of guy who runs with a pack, but he isn't anti-social either. He probably likes to have a few close relationships, (wife, brother), and is not really into having acquaintances. Derick seemed to enjoy his play date with Austin and Ben at the trampoline park, and although it was arranged, it wasn't forced. 

Derick has/had friends:*

Spoiler

 

Derick's Groomsmen included his brother Dan as Best Man (they appear genuinely close to each other), Tony Dillard (a cousin), Stephen Johnson (Derick's friend and college roommate - Derick was one of his Groomsmen), Madison McCalmon (another friend - Derick appears to have been one of his Groomsmen as well), John Duggar, and Joseph Duggar.

*Worded it that way because the Dills don't share as much anymore and what they do share is heavily focused on family and SCA. So it's possible he's drifted from his friends, but it's also possible they're still friends and the Dills just don't mention it for some reason.

John David seems like he's a generally easy person to get along with. He was a Groomsman in Josh, Jill, Jinger, and Joy's weddings. He also was a Groomsman for Zach Bates back in December 2013 - Kelly Bates mentioned on the family blog that John, Andy Leftwich, and Whitney (Zach's wife) were all instrumental in helping Zach cope after Sarah ended their courtship.

As for Josh? Not sure. I can't find find much information. The wedding party looked heavy on family members though. Which doesn't necessarily mean anything since he and Anna have a lot of siblings and may not have wanted to exclude someone. I have a feeling that's partly why Jill may not have had any friends as Bridesmaids.

22 minutes ago, nst said:

they didn't get the cover (Julianne Hough from DWTS got it ) not even a sidebar - so something is up 

maybe in two weeks when she can actually stand 

 

That indicates nothing. They got the cover of People twenty-one days after Israel was born:

(The date is right above the last "e" in "People.")

Jill just had major surgery. She needs time to begin the recovery process. And there's no way People would be capable of putting together a photo shoot and cover worthy article in just four days... and that's not even considering what hospital policy might be regarding visitors and photographs, etc.

[Jane M.]

13 hours ago, picklepizzas said:

So officially more than 3 days in and still no "mama + new baby" pic? This is legit weird for them. 

Agreed!

11 hours ago, Berta McGee said:

A coochi named choo-chi. A story book for grown ups?

Chocho or chocha means pussy in spanish. 

After so many months in CA the Dullards should know this already

[Jug Band Baby]

18 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Unfortunately that is not just a fundie thing. My sister just recently had a baby boy and all throughout her pregnancy she referred to him as "lil man". When she was pregnant with her daughter it was "baby girl".  I've seen others on facebook refer to their baby boys as lil or little man. It drives me bonkers. 

What drives me bonkers about this is that people expect boys to grow up faster, but it's okay for girls to get to be kids.  Let all kids be kids.  Don't try to make any gender grow up faster.  I can't call my girls "little women" because their childhoods should go slow.

18 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I don't know why, but "little man" drives me nuts too. It's like the term "little boy" no longer exists but grown women are called "girls." It bothers me. "Lil man" in my opinion is not cute or original. Bleh. 

A lot of men call their buddies "the boys" too.

[Buzzard]

On the radio silence from the Dullards:

I'll be concerned if Jinger comes back from Laredo.  If she's still thrift shopping and playing soccer I'm not at all concerned.

[Jug Band Baby]

18 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

It's just horrifying to think about modesty and little kids being even considered.

In my house, someone's naked at almost any given point.  Bodies aren't inherently sexual.  They exist.  Big whoop.  Modest, to me, is doing things that will make others give you more attention than others, like going to a beach and wearing a frumper.  A bathing suit is less conspicuous, and more modest.

[Jug Band Baby]

14 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Are you a crier yourself?  Because I am stoic like Jessa (with a more emotionally flamboyant sibling like Jill), and I have been Jessa in that interview more times than I can count with my sibling's tears.  In an attempt to explain (and this post got out of hand and is NOT directed at you at all, just an expression of what it feels like to be in Jessa's shoes), it's not cruelty or direct anger or any meanness, it's really more that I am TRYING to express and process MY emotions too, but I feel unable to do so because my sibling here is taking up ALL THE EMOTIONAL SPACE with her tears.  I feel angry that there isn't space for my emotions. I feel frustrated and upset that my sibling is hogging all the emotional space.  I am hurt that she is disregarding my emotional needs and taking up more than her fair share for hers.  

This whole post is me and a sister I have.  I've had to distance myself from her because it always becomes about her needs, her emotions.  I can get bad news, like the grandma we don't share that is mine was just given 3 months left and is going into hospice, but she will need to be supported because her favorite video game player is getting killed of in the next installment of the game.  That's real.  That was my yesterday.  It's hard to process your own emotions when you have to support someone else, big or small, and it's damaging.

14 hours ago, Timetostoplurking said:

OMG!!! You are me!!!  You just summed up (very eloquently) how it feels to have emotionally needy siblings.  well said!!

I have an emotionally needy sister, a sister who thinks she's the most geniusy genius to ever genius who won't even read a favorite book twice since she thinks she's so perfect in her recall that she can't possibly forget details, and the sister I like spending time with most because she tries to balance her needs with others, and admits to not being the perfectest perfect person.

[Mayluka]

39 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

That indicates nothing. They got the cover of People twenty-one days after Israel was born:

I just want to point out that magazines are usually released with future dates, and the date at the top doesn't necessarily indicate when it first appeared. Additionally, People magazine posts excerpts and pictures from their articles online before the cover story actually comes out in print. From what I can find, People posted pictures of Israel's cover shoot at least as early as April 14th (possibly earlier, but this is what I was able to find quickly in a search). 

It is still currently sooner than that amount of time (8 days) since Samuel's birth (4 days), so I'm not saying that it's odd that family photo shoot pictures haven't been posted yet. It just wasn't 3 weeks before Israel's cover photos started to appear.

[Carm_88]

I am an emotional person but I hate it, so I do my best to keep from crying. I also don't know what to do when people are crying. So seeing people cry usually gives me a "what am I suppose to do here" face. Mostly because I personally don't want people touching me when I'm upset. So I'm never sure if people necessarily want it or not. 

[SamiKatz]

It was also well known before the People story that Jill had complications with Israel's birth, and I seem to remember seeing announcements/photos posted by them before the cover story as well.

I don't think the radio silence around Samuel is necessarily indicative of something being wrong, but it is odd for them.

[Rachel333]

36 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

What drives me bonkers about this is that people expect boys to grow up faster, but it's okay for girls to get to be kids.  Let all kids be kids.  Don't try to make any gender grow up faster.  I can't call my girls "little women" because their childhoods should go slow.

I think it's kind of the opposite. You get people saying "boys will be boys" to excuse the behavior of adult men while women don't get the same consideration.

On the other hand, you do get people calling women "girls" when they wouldn't call men "boys" in the same situation. In college sports, for instance, I've often heard people talk about the "men's basketball team" and the "girls' basketball team." I think that's a very different circumstance from the previous example though since it has the effect of belittling women while the "boys will be boys" attitude benefits men.

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

But it's pretty easy to figure out, once you get to talking, how you're related.

Yep, and if you want specifics, this chart is awesome. I use it all the time to try to remember if "Melissa" is my third cousin/once removed or my second cousin/twice removed... lol

http://www.4familytrees.com/relationship matrix.htm 

[Gobsmacked]

10 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Yep, and if you want specifics, this chart is awesome. I use it all the time to try to remember if "Melissa" is my third cousin/once removed or my second cousin/twice removed... lol

http://www.4familytrees.com/relationship matrix.htm 

Thankyou for posting this. My cousins and siblings have never been able to figure all the removed's out.  We share grandparents etc on our maternal side. Two brothers married two sisters. Our mums are cousins. We were never quite sure what we all were!!

[zygote373]

I really think we can't compare their updates about Israel with their updates about Samuel. Israel was the first grandchild of a Duggar daughter, Jill and Derick's first child and, most importantly, pre-Josh scandal.

 

Before Josh, they were generally well-liked in the public and people would have wanted to see this update. Now, they get a lot more criticism as a family and there is not as much interest in each new kid. Sure, they're still famous, but the landscape has changed.

 

Also, as @VelociRapture and others pointed out, Jill and Derick are way less communicative in general than they used to be. I hope they are just taking the time to enjoy their new family and not thinking about their image.

[OyToTheVey]

16 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Are you a crier yourself?  Because I am stoic like Jessa (with a more emotionally flamboyant sibling like Jill), and I have been Jessa in that interview more times than I can count with my sibling's tears. 

You've just described me. I don't have any siblings but people always think I'm heartless or a bitch. But there's allllllllllllways someone that's flat out balling their eyes out and I'm usually ignored because I don't appear emotional. I don't appear emotional because someones always taking away my emotional space just as you described. You've expressed it better than I ever could. I can't even count how many times I've been called heartless or cold. That's peoples favorite. I'm cold.

BTW the emotionally needy one is my mom. Love her but holy crap. Also it was my cousins ex but he finally got rid of her after 20 years.

[lomo6]

9 hours ago, season of life said:

The thought of 200 Duggars running around genuinely terrifies me 

If all the kids get married and you count spouses plus JB & Michelle (so 40 people before grandchildren), each of the Duggar kids would have to have an average of 8.42 kids to get to 200. Perhaps unlikely, but once the grandchildren start having kids, the 200 mark will almost certainly be surpassed, probably within the next 20 years or so. 

 

[imokit]

Putting my NICU hat on for a moment here - Samuel had an IV in shortly after birth.  The most common reason for it to be in him so soon would be antibiotics.

If he needed IV fluids (as a full term baby) - that decision wouldn't be that quick.  He'd be fed first, then his sugar would be monitored for a while, then if things weren't working they'd feed him through a tube from his mouth to stomach.  An IV for fluids wouldn't go in a term baby at birth.

If Jill bled and he needed blood, a transfusion would take longer than the picture suggests he's been alive for (that's an OR pic on a ressucitaire) and he's too pink to be anaemic.

On the other hand, the criteria for giving babies antibiotics varies from hospital to hospital but that decision could have been made at birth.  If Jill's water's had been broken too long and she had a temperature/doctors were worried she had an infection, or if she carries GBS.  Any of these (plus others) could mean a decision to start antibiotics in Sam.

Before starting antibiotic in newborns, blood is taken from them and put into culture bottles to see if it will grow anything.  Different labs are different, but in most cases a negative result takes at least 48-72hours.  To get a negative, you have to prove that nothing has grown in the blood in a set amount of time.  Babies stay on the antibiotics until this result happens.

Thus Sam could still be on antibiotics and they may be waiting until they can have a happy healthy cuddly picture with him and his mummy and no wires.

Jill herself could be fine, but still needing medical treatment antibiotics/blood etc.

It may be that both are fine, but still having medical treatment and they're waiting for IVs to be out for the perfect pic to release to the media.

[Bad Wolf]

I'll cut them some slack here. Wolf 1 was an emergency c section and I was a mess emotionally. Not helped by our best man calling to say it was OK that I wasn't a real woman for not having had a natural birth. (I can laugh about it now.) Wolf 2 was a planned c section before VBACs were common. I sailed through, because I knew what to expect and didn't have to go into labor. This was before social media or cell phones. Mr. Wolf took pictures that had to be developed and mailed to family. (Yes, I am that old.) So Jill has had to labor twice and not get the hoped for result. If she were to think, screw the public, I'd be with her.

[Fluffy14]

Did Jill just not progress the first time around?  

I am going to throw this idea out. I don't necessarily think it in Jill's case but it does happen to some women. I think some of my reason for not delivering naturally was not even the size but my state of mind. As a result of abuse I was pregnant as a teen. The birth was TRAUMATIZING and when I look back at the labour of my first(after being married) and my third being a trial of labour after C section . I look back and even though I thought i was handling the process well. I was not. My mind, was subconsciously in control and birth was not going to happen. In my trial of labour i was literally cross legged the whole time. Whether I stood, sat or layed down. I did not breathe through contractions, i held my breath. Instead of working with contractions i fought them. I did progress to 5cm which was 4 more than the first.  But baby was severely stressed and Emergency section ASAP. I had no idea until years later when I was hearing stories from young mothers who worked with their body in labour, I realized I actually probably impeded natural delivery because of earlier trauma.  

The mind is powerful. I wonder if Jill's mother's births or watching women in  labour and delivery scarred Jill's mind and even though she wants to deliver naturally , her mind is shutting it all down because of unrecognized  fear. Or maybe deep in her unconsciousness she doesn't want 27 children. The mind is powerful. 

Of course this is all just thought, I have no credentials, we don't know any of the real details of either birth.....but It has always made me wonder. I am open to any opinions on the subject. Have at er.