Dillards 33: Now Including Samuel

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

[bal maiden]

If you all think Sam is a giant, I should show you my 10lb3ozer, he's over 11lbs now at 4 weeks old! Born at home with no issues. Where do I collect my fundie mothering points?   

[SilverBeach]

I have read that giant babies may sometimes be the result of gestational diabetes. 

[singsingsing]

Quoting @SapphireSlytherin from the last thread:

Quote

Assuming you mean that Central America, in the situation they were in (scary/dangerous), should be off-limits? There are plenty of places they could go outside the US where it's safer, and where they could still be "missionaries." (Quotes on purpose because I don't think converting ebil Catholics to their version of christianity counts as missionary work.)

Sort of. There are definitely safer places, but I really feel like they should stay in the U.S. for now. Close to home, close to family, close to everything familiar. They've been through a lot of extreme change and extreme stress over the past few years, and they need a break. They need a chance to rest, recover, and do some soul-searching. A chance to focus on their own health, mental and physical, on their marriage, and on their children. Maybe after enough time has passed and they've been able to recover and get their bearings, get a really solid foundation under them, then they can think about being missionaries again.

Of course, these are all just my own personal feelings on the situation. I can only speculate on what they're thinking and feeling and what might be best for them. Jill and Derick can do whatever they want.

[VineHeart137]

7 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

If you all think Sam is a giant, I should show you my 10lb3ozer, he's over 11lbs now at 4 weeks old! Born at home with no issues. Where do I collect my fundie mothering points?   

Congrats! I bet he's a cute little chunky monkey!

[Four is Enough]

The Wanderer said:

Quote

 

 If Jill so desperately wants a vbac, she needs to seek out proper prenatal care during her pregnancies. Otherwise, her subsequent pregnancies will be a crapshoot where the odds are stacked against her.

And I don't feel sorry for Jill much either. I feel sorry for the pain she went through, and I'm glad that she and the baby seem to be doing ok, but if she sought out proper care and went to a hospital, she might have gotten her vbac.

 

I completely agree. My hope for Jill is, before she undergoes another pregnancy, she sees a physician, gets a complete physical for herself, follows any advice the physician gives for getting/staying pregnant, and has complete, involved medical care throughout pregnancy and delivery. I'd feel a lot safer.

 

Oh, and my godmother had four children. Her smallest was ten pounds, her largest, thirteen. Home births, vaginally.

[Stormy]

1 minute ago, Four is Enough said:

I completely agree. My hope for Jill is, before she undergoes another pregnancy, she sees a physician, gets a complete physical for herself, follows any advice the physician gives for getting/staying pregnant, and has complete, involved medical care throughout pregnancy and delivery. I'd feel a lot safer.

Pasting my comment in the previous thread because it was the second-to-last and I think it will get lost:

Quote

This might be presumptuous, but I can't help but wonder if the c-section could have been prevented. I myself was an emergency c-section after it was determined I was "too big" (9lbs., 13 oz.) to come out. For reference, my parents got adequate pre-natal care and had gone to the hospital as soon as my mom began to feel contractions. I was not overdue (my mom attests I was right on schedule) and needing the whole procedure came as a shock to everyone. When my mom got pregnant with my younger brother, they took measures to try and prevent a repeat c/s and ultimately induced my mom about three weeks before her due date. He was delivered via v-bac and was over eight pounds with an apgar score of 9 (whereas mine was 5).

I understand, though, that there are a variety of reasons for needing c-sections that can't easily be avoided. I'm on board with the assumption that Jill went way overdue (again) and attempted a home birth before being rushed to the hospital at the last second. Again, though, we're not sure what exactly happened yet and this is pure speculation.

Just like my mother, it doesn't seem like Jill is cut out for vaginal births without medical intervention.

[Chewing Gum]

My fear is that Jill will at least continue to get pregnant until she had a girl. She want a girl so desperately. So I hope her next is a girl and then they'll stop. One can dream. 

[Jaedzia]

@PennySycamore I wish I knew the name of the test but I don't. I know it happened in the womb. I'll never forget what my third girl niece looked like at the stillbirth. I don't want to spell it out in case it would upset someone, but it was obvious they were trying medical treatment while in the womb. 

[bal maiden]

21 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I have read that giant babies may sometimes be the result of gestational diabetes. 

Can be, but some of us just make giants! Both my babies were over the 95th centile, as were my brother's kids (a doctor's kids, no less). We have no idea which camp Jill falls into unless she plans to publish the results of a glucose tolerance test...

[SilverBeach]

@bal maiden, I hear you, was just mentioning it. Don't know if blood sugar testing is routine prenatal care now, wasn't when I had mine. I don't really think under ten pounds is giant though. Mine was eight pounds one ounce with a big round head, and that was enough to push out. I'm not sure there's a correlation between birth weight and later body size. I was a five pound something ounce infant, yet I've always been big. Interesting.

[melon]

Bal Maiden,I had giants,too!My smallest was 8lb15oz,then 9 7 and 3/4 oz and last 10lbs 4 oz.All were vaginal,in the hospital.Mr Melon was a big baby at 10lbs 6 oz...I told a friend this,when expecting my first..she say Melon,you're doomed...lol.I had a glucose tolerance test and everything was normal.My boys were in the 90th or higher percentile.People either admired them and asked what I fed them or acted like they were doomed to be obese.

[eveandadam]

I think the idea of abstinence within a marriage would be a great solution for them to space children and would even be a solution for gay people. If they are against the gay lifestyle (Whatever that means) why not abstinence (even within a gay relationship). If you are not a highly sexual person this is not a big obstacle.

[melon]

My mother had 4 C sections.So I was due around the 15th but they scheduled my birth on the 1st.I was 8lbs and 3/4 oz.The doctor said I may have been 9lbs if I had gone longer.

 

[BabyBottlePop]

This article got Israel's birthday off by a year. The horror! I could see Jill being upset because it looks like it took her more than a year to get pregnant since marriage! 

[melon]

I am really curious why Samuel has oxygen,an IV and a heart monitor.

 

[Gobsmacked]

My two weighed 6lb at birth. They are now 6 feet 6 and 6 feet 4inches tall. At birth they looked very scrawny.

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

I guessed Samuel's birth date and weight incorrectly, but correctly guessed his moon sign (the moon was still in Saggitarius on July 7th... )

36 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I have read that giant babies may sometimes be the result of gestational diabetes. 

(Disclaimer: I have no experience with being pregnant for longer than 2 months, but here's my speculation, to be taken with a hefty grain of salt )

I know shit happens, even with the best-intentioned parents, and there could be any number of reasons the baby was hooked up to iv's in that picture D-Wreck posted, but I had a similar thought, except I wondered if gestational diabetes might have something to do with the non-routine newborn care. I don't know what the risks are when a pregnant woman with gestational diabetes doesn't take insulin, but big baby + iv's did have me thinking along the lines of complications from untreated gestational diabetes.

[Gobsmacked]

 

#1 had 'wet' lungs at birth. He spent 5 days hooked up to an IV in NICU. The splint is to prevent the IV line kinking. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Jill can still safely have a couple more kids, IF she would go to the damn doctor with the next pregnancy, get any prenatal care, and just schedule the c/sections on her due date.  She cannot have vaginal babies, it happens I couldn't either, no shame as long as you have a healthy baby that is all that matters.  This BS DQ & Boob spew about having all the kids god allows is really just having as many kids as your body allows.  If Jill & Wreck want to have as many kids as god allows maybe the should stop and realize that Jill's c/sections are a clue that they aren't meant to have a jumbo sized family. They can still safely have 4 or 5 kids total. 

[singsingsing]

50 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

I think the idea of abstinence within a marriage would be a great solution for them to space children and would even be a solution for gay people. If they are against the gay lifestyle (Whatever that means) why not abstinence (even within a gay relationship). If you are not a highly sexual person this is not a big obstacle.

That would be a great option for a very small minority of people. It's pretty easy to be abstinent when you're single, but being abstinent within marriage is a lot more difficult for most people. Both spouses would have to have similarly low sex drives and a low desire for physical intimacy. That's not the case for most married couples, particularly young married couples. It absolutely works for some couples. But not most couples.

If they're still totally against birth control, including barrier methods, NFP would probably be the best option for them if they want to prevent. FAM is better (in my personal non-fundie opinion) because you can still be sexually intimidate (okay, I meant INTIMATE, but I'm leaving it for the lolz) on fertile days as long as it's not penetrative sex, but NFP would be the next best thing. Basically it would be the best compromise between the two extremes - you're not 'using birth control', but you're still able to have a sexual relationship with your spouse.

39 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Jill can still safely have a couple more kids, IF she would go to the damn doctor with the next pregnancy, get any prenatal care, and just schedule the c/sections on her due date.  [Snip] They can still safely have 4 or 5 kids total. 

We don't know that. Maybe she can, maybe she can't. I know of women who've have 5+ repeat c-sections, seemingly with no issues. My mother had two emergency c-sections and the doctors strongly advised her to never get pregnant again. If Jill's doctor is telling her she can safely have more kids, awesome! If she/he is telling her to stop, I would hope (but I definitely don't expect) that she would take her/his advice.

[apandaaries]

Well, while I was typing this all up, thread 32 ran out and 33 began.  Thank goodness I can cut and paste!

While I don't want to start any kind of mommy shaming war, I do think it's fair to support mothers with the births that they want and understand their disappointment should their ideal birth plan not work out.  Most people here seem to really support the idea that a laboring mom should have access to whatever doctor-approved drugs she desires.  Do we really need to shame people if they truly want a vaginal birth experience (or the converse, if they just want the baby out without any pain whatsoever)?

Many pregnancies are around 40 weeks of utter hormonal chaos.  Most women feel like their body has been taken over by a small but ever-growing parasite...which eventually prevents them from doing anything normal. There's the insomnia, the weird dreams, the general anxiety about the health of the baby, all those fucking hormones which devastate any hope of emotional tranquility, along with every strange and previously unimaginable change in the physical body... Is it too much to ask that a woman can have her own hopes and dreams about the labor, after she's already given and invested so much? Yet so many people seem willing, able, and happy to shit on these women for pursuing their ideals -- especially  these fundie women who are already so freaking limited in their options in life. While we may not be happy with how Jill labored (even though we don't know a ton about this delivery so we're dealing with very few facts), but she still acquiesced to medical interventions.  We know her ideal was different, but ultimately she did what was best for the baby. And a C-section is major abdominal surgery that does have its own risks. Yes, they have saved countless lives, but there are still some who die from complications.  It's NOT a perfect cure-all that guarantees health for mother and baby.  It is major surgery.  Both vaginal delivery and C-sections have risks.  Can we allow pregnant women to have some feelings about those risks and options?

(I can't believe I feel like I have to defend Jill! Of all people!   FFS.)

I do feel sorry for Jill, but I also hope she's able to grow from these experiences and not shut down internally (I mean, even moreso than it seems she already has). Her parents provided strict instructions on living a perfect, godly life, and she did her very best.  She had one front hug with Derick and seems to have included a lot of her family in the courtship.  Of all the kidults, I suspect she never violated the rules with a secret text or conversation.

What have her rewards been? Her brother's scandalous behavior was revealed, and it was discovered that she was a victim, even though she didn't want that label.  Her family faced serious backlash about the molestations. She discovered with great difficulty that not all appreciated their particular family values. She didn't have a glamorous honeymoon with her new groom, but instead months in Central America.  Their mission is idiotic, but El Salvador does have one of the highest murder rates in the world (in large part to US-American interference!  But that's another thread drift. And I know they live in a compound, but for our small town girl, I think she's still scared, if not terrified), and Jill does not have the constitution for danger.  An extrovert who thrived on leading young ones within a secure family structure was taken to a small town where she knew few people, didn't know the language, and was isolated in a small expat compound. Her husband thought she spoke too loudly, so now she's quieter. Her advice to her sisters and their husbands on marriage is to understand that wives sometimes just cry and need support.  She jumped onto social media and discovered that fame comes with praise and criticism.  She didn't pick up any hobbies, start to read, begin to explore once married -- she jumped into motherhood, instead. She was excited to have been quickly blessed with pregnancy, but did not have the birth experience she wanted. She tried again, and it didn't happen. Again. I don't want to use the word "failed," but I suspect that's how she's thinking of it. She assisted with lots of births and wanted to be a midwife. Her sister and Anna delivered the way she wanted to, but she didn't.*  She's looking at houses in Arkansas, but the man she's pledged her life to is ready to return to Central America -- this time she'll have a toddler and an infant to care for, by herself for the most part.

Anyone who's been watching knows that Jill has suffered and changed during her marriage. She was one of the brightest, shiniest, smiliest advertisements for their lifestyle, quick to correct a younger sibling. She embraced the sister mom role so thoroughly that her buddy group still gets "special privileges" about knowing the sex of her latest fetus or visiting with her when she's home.  She now seems much more withdrawn, much quieter, and more adrift than ever before.

I don't think that a woman's sole purpose is to be a brood mare, but motherhood has been her cult's highest calling.  She was raised to think that her mother was especially blessed with fertility because her mother was so very good and godly.  So what does that say about Jill and her pregnancies and deliveries? With her upbringing, how is she feeling now? Two C-sections limit their natural family quite a lot.  I hope that Boob and Ofboob have their own come to Jesus moment where they realize the effects of their hateful, harmful rhetoric on their children (total optimism, I know). I hope that they are able to reach out and help her, and not make her feel shame or sorrow. I really hope that they don't decide this is God telling them to adopt (please, Rufus, please). 

*Personally, I think Jill's low pain threshold and high anxiety (see the episode where she and Jana had their wisdom teeth removed, or where the girls had to donate blood) made her a questionable candidate for a VBAC.  Vaginal birth is scary, hard, and incredibly painful.  You have to know and trust your body, which Jill has never been encouraged to do, apart from tracking her cycle.  C-sections also seem scary, hard, and incredibly painful (especially the recovery period), but the birthing team is larger and has a doctor in charge.  Jill isn't used to being the person in charge, except for when she's executing someone else's orders.  Hopefully she feels some peace with it all.

@bal maiden congratulations! 

[Casserole]

19 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

I think the idea of abstinence within a marriage would be a great solution for them to space children and would even be a solution for gay people. If they are against the gay lifestyle (Whatever that means) why not abstinence (even within a gay relationship). If you are not a highly sexual person this is not a big obstacle.

I think I need clarification on your "solution" for gay people. Are you saying people who identify as gay but are not "okay" with their own lifestyle should abstain? Abstaining from sex makes them no longer gay? Abstaining from sex while still identifying as "gay" makes them okay for the Duggars/God/whatever religion they follow? 

I'm just confused, because gay people do not need birth control or a solution to being gay... and hopefully I completely missed the mark on your post. 

[shock928]

@seasonsoflife I can not give enough thumbs up and agree with you more. C sections are medically necessary sometimes to keep both mom and baby safe. I think since medical care has been readily available for life saving the past decades it has put things out of perspective a bit and now some women tend to value the experience... A bit TOO much. 

I still have nightmares about my births. I can't watch births on tv. I can't talk about it aloud without gripping fear and anxiety. I become panicked and near crying thinking about  how I thought I was dying. It was more of something I survived and I am thankful for the medical care I received - otherwise I wouldn't be here. That being said The USA doesn't have near enough resources for birth trauma and emotional counseling for new moms. It may help those who need it to put things in perspective and recover emotionally.

Also I take "mom and baby are doing well," to mean absolutely nothing to me. My MIL told all our family I was. Doing great! after my hemmorhage. And I was far from well! People were shocked when they finally got the story of what happened. So when Jill says, "I'm okay," then I'll believe she's okay. What's with people speaking on new mothers emotional and physical behalf. Derelict probably can't even relate or guess how she is feeling. That's my two cents!

[Georgiana]

When I was born, my mother labored for hours with no progress. She wanted an unmedicated birth, but finally she was told by the doctor "You're getting medication. Either you can try an epidural now to see if it helps, or you'll end up with a c section in a few." 

Mom chose epidural. It kicked in and after 24 hours of ACTIVE labor, I was born within a few pushes. I was 6 lbs. 

Some women's bodies don't respond well to the pain of labor. We know Jill has a particularly poor pain/panic response to pain, so this could be the case for her. 

Like others have said: submitting herself to proper prenatal and natal care could allow her to give birth vaginally. She's just not cut out for the crunchy lifestyle she so desires. 

My great grandma used to say "Ain't nothing more "natural" than a woman dying in childbirth".  Jill needs to realize that SHE NEEDS modern medicine to give birth successfully and start relying upon it. Not every woman CAN give birth unassisted. The maternal death rate plummeted FOR A REASON with modern medical care.