Jinger/Jeremy: Not as Interesting as Jingerbread

[PennySycamore]

11 hours ago, Minionmayhem said:

I'm taking out Hulu just for THT, and if this isn't the perfect political climate to drop some dystopian allegory in, I don't know what is.  Now if we could only get the fundies to watch it and start asking questions. 

 

I was watching Silent Green the other night and realized it was the right wings' wet dream.  We poison and overpopulate the planet and the only people that can live well are the rich boys.  The masses are reduced to eating Soylent Green.  

If you don't know what Soylent Green is,  you can watch this.

Spoiler

 

The whole movie is available on Youtube, I think.  

[send*the*ferrets]

A family friend has lupus, and has begun trying to cut back on medicine (taking it every other day, every three days, etc) because she is terrified she won't be able to afford medicine at all when Obamacare goes away. She thinks it will kill her. I am not sure she is wrong. 

[sophie10130]

14 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

This is a wonderful example of mindfulness and how people can blend religion, spirituality, and personal interests for therapeutic benefit. Meditation, rosaries, chanting, these are all tapping into aspects of mindfulness that people have used for self reflection, health, and serenity.

So true. It makes me so sad to think that people like the Duggars and Jeremy are so critical of secular therapy. My doctor listened to my goals in terms of mental health and never pressured me to do anything I didn't want to do.

I had a prescription for Ativan in college when I would get frequent panic attacks and it was a life saver. But I had read a lot about mental health between then and now and realized I didn't really have any real coping skills to help so that perhaps I could intervene on my own before I needed to take meds. Like I said, he agreed with my assessment and we worked from there. I think because I knew he was backing me up totally, it helped me feel more in control.

It just makes me mad to see them paint secular therapy with such a broad brush. No, they aren't all just trying to get people doped up on xanax and zoloft to get them out of their office. They try to match the correct treatment plans with each individual, and whether or not that includes medication is up to the doctor and patient. People like the Duggars could be getting a lot of good, decent help including coping skills, self discovery, validation of emotions, and maybe even medication. It could change their entire life and also the lives of their spouses and billions of children. But no. Secularism is evil. 

[VelociRapture]

@toosweetI could write a lengthy post in response to you. But I'm not going to. I doubt you'd take time to read it.

I will say this - you don't get to claim the moral high ground or complain about people being vulgar. The President you voted for used far fouler language and was downright cruel to countless individuals during the election. His words and actions were exhaustively covered in the media. You knew the things he stood for and the man he is. You voted for him anyways. And for that reason, your vote for him was an endorsement of every single little thing he said or did that brought harm to others or will bring harm to them in the future.

You voted for him. That means you get to fully enjoy the ramifications.

[nickelodeon]

I think that what sets Jeremy apart from other counselors who use prayer/meditation/mantras as part of therapy is that Jeremy identifies depression as caused by your own sin. Which suggests that good people don't get depressed, and if you're depressed then you've done something evil and need to pray for mercy. Which is a pretty cruel message to preach to suffering people.

[Kelsey]

Here's the thing about Trump supporters like @toosweet, they don't care. They don't care that you have medical issues and may die from them if left untreated. They don't care that trans people need to feel safe and occasionally use the restroom. They just don't care. You've missed the point entirely. This is about them, not you. They have been pushed into a corner, they have been persecuted for being Christian (LMFAO), they have been forced to pay for insurance, they have to watch the homos kiss- don't you see that it's awful for them? A few dead "people" (because they don't consider you a person) is an okay price to pay for them to be able to ruin the environment, gut education, and praise the lawd!

[SorenaJ]

How any country can not have free healthcare is beyond me. It's f**ing healthcare?! Why is that even a question?

- Scandinavian, and proud of the welfare state. 

[Rachel333]

People with mental illness are more likely to first contact a member of the clergy about it than any other professional. That's why it's so scary that about a third of the time (and I'm sure much more often in some churches), people are told by their pastors that they or their loved one isn't really mentally ill. Mental illness in women is particularly likely to be dismissed. Almost half of Evangelical Christians in the US, and over a third of Americans in general, believe that serious mental illness, including disorders like schizophrenia, can be cured by Bible study and prayer alone. This issue is extremely serious and pastors like Jeremy who deny the need for mental health care are outright putting their congregants in danger. I wonder if he would listen to Christians who talk about the need for pastors to better understand mental health issues.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

How any country can not have free healthcare is beyond me. It's f**ing healthcare?! Why is that even a question?

- Scandinavian, and proud of the welfare state. 

Because "Murkia our priorities are profits over people. The "pro life" party, is pro gun pro war pro death penalty, anti SNAP (our food assistance program) anti healthcare and anti education.  To these people EVERYTHING is to be done for profit, if you can't afford it, not their problem YOU should have worked harder or had a better family to help you, and been born straight and white.   The problem here is that people are selfish and ignorant (by design), The tainted religion so that it is also selfish, white & ignorant, and sold it to the masses as their saving grace and the only way to get that is to be a selfish ignorant white asshole just like Conservative Jebus.

One thing the conservatives who are anti health care unless can pay for it, are very good at getting their message out, they own the radio waves in much of middle America, there are parts of the country that only get AM radio and that is all right wing talk, Fox "news" (which isn't news it is the propaganda network for the right wing)  is available more places than non partisan news stations. People are lied to and have been for going on 20 years.  the conservative mantra of repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth has taken over.  You can show a video of Trump saying one thing and then the next shows him saying he didn't say it, and they will believe him rather than their own eyes and ears. America will be a 3rd world country in 10 years if we do not stop the stupid from spreading and voting. 

 

[SorenaJ]

2 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Because "Murkia our priorities are profits over people. The "pro life" party, is pro gun pro war pro death penalty, anti SNAP (our food assistance program) anti healthcare and anti education.  To these people EVERYTHING is to be done for profit, if you can't afford it, not their problem YOU should have worked harder or had a better family to help you, and been born straight and white.   The problem here is that people are selfish and ignorant (by design), The tainted religion so that it is also selfish, white & ignorant, and sold it to the masses as their saving grace and the only way to get that is to be a selfish ignorant white asshole just like Conservative Jebus.

One thing the conservatives who are anti health care unless can pay for it, are very good at getting their message out, they own the radio waves in much of middle America, there are parts of the country that only get AM radio and that is all right wing talk, Fox "news" (which isn't news it is the propaganda network for the right wing)  is available more places than non partisan news stations. People are lied to and have been for going on 20 years.  the conservative mantra of repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth has taken over.  You can show a video of Trump saying one thing and then the next shows him saying he didn't say it, and they will believe him rather than their own eyes and ears. America will be a 3rd world country in 10 years if we do not stop the stupid from spreading and voting. 

 

'Murika sounds like a bullshit ass country. America is how the apocalypse is gonna start. Can we build a wall around America? Maybe the orange dude is really doing us a favor. 

[send*the*ferrets]

24 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

How any country can not have free healthcare is beyond me. It's f**ing healthcare?! Why is that even a question?

- Scandinavian, and proud of the welfare state. 

We said that *meals on wheels* wasn't showing enough proof of benefit. Because people simply not being hungry anymore isn't proof that it's working. Feeding hungry school kids isn't worth it just so they can eat one meal a day- their test scores have to go up. If they can't test well- they can just starve. 

[Rachel333]

One of the things that make the least sense is that making birth control easily available is the best way to prevent abortions, but the supposedly pro-life Republicans are against covering birth control and mock those who think it should be free.

[nausicaa]

3 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

One of the things that make the least sense is that making birth control easily available is the best way to prevent abortions, but the supposedly pro-life Republicans are against covering birth control and mock those who think it should be free.

I have never, ever understood it. If you really think abortion is murder, you think you'd be skipping around tossing condoms at people like flower petals on May Day.

To be fair, I do know some pro-life people who are very pro-comprehensive sex ed and pro-birth control (they tend to be very moderate in their abortion policies in the first place though). But for the rest who blanche at the thought of making birth control more accessible or are upset at sixteen-year-olds being shown condoms, I think it shows they aren't about "abortion is murder" so much as "sluts should be punished."

[send*the*ferrets]

9 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

One of the things that make the least sense is that making birth control easily available is the best way to prevent abortions, but the supposedly pro-life Republicans are against covering birth control and mock those who think it should be free.

Let's be honest, only middle class nuclear families with a stay at home spouse should have more children. Anybody else can't afford to properly care for them/is only doing it to exploit the system/take my tax money and should be ashamed. And if you can't afford kids, you should clearly never have sex. Ever. 

ETA- just in case, read that in sarcasm font, please... 

[December]

4 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I have never, ever understood it. If you really think abortion is murder, you think you'd be skipping around tossing condoms at people like flower petals on May Day.

 

That is a hilarious image!  And your point is so correct. Sex education and contraception have done so much to end abortion in this country, and it's provable -- that's part of why the abortion rate is lower than it has been in decades. But it seems many people are more interested in shaming/punishing women for having sex (even though it takes 2 to tango) than looking at practical solutions to cut down on the reasons behind many abortions. 

[Rachel333]

5 minutes ago, December said:

Sex education and contraception have done so much to end abortion in this country, and it's provable -- that's part of why the abortion rate is lower than it has been in decades.

Yep. Abortion rates are at an all-time low since Roe v. Wade in 1973 and it's very likely because Obamacare has provided access to contraception.

That's why it's bizarre that people like my grandparents voted for Trump because abortion is the most important issue to them (apparently Hillary "wants to kill more babies"), but the Republican plan would have taken away the reason behind the drop in abortion rates.

[choralcrusader8613]

Back to Jinger and Jeremy, I just wanted to say that it's sad that this isn't even the first time a Duggar husband has written a "more Jesus" prescription for depression.

Derick Dillard, anyone? http://www.dillardfamily.com/2016/6/discussing-depression

My "favorite" quote from that blog post:

Quote

A joyful heart really is good medicine (Proverbs 17:22).  It’s interesting to me that the Bible has always been right regarding various fields of science, and that the progression of scientific discovery has only confirmed the word of God.

[singsingsing]

Can I just say something about America? America is not a 'bullshit ass country'. America is a great country with some very serious problems. America is not unique in the world or in history as a superpower in having very serious problems. There are millions of wonderful, intelligent, kind, empathetic Americans who are tirelessly working to make their country and the world a better place. Some of the most important scientific and medical breakthroughs have come out of the United States. Some of the finest educational, scientific, artistic, and social institutions exist there. It's a country with a rich and fascinating history, an incredible diversity of cultures, and absolutely stunning natural beauty. Despite its myriad issues, and especially the issues it's currently facing, it still is one of the most successful democracies the world has ever seen, and I have faith that it will remain that way. I have faith that the goodness of the good people in America will prevail.

Seriously, I love you guys.

-A Canadian

[danni9242]

When Trump et al go on about being pro-life the cut off for that is after they can't control a woman's body any more. Personally I would 100% prefer zero abortions, but in the world we live in people end up with pregnancies they don't want for a variety of reasons. You can't stop abortion, you can only stop safe abortion, and if you want people to have the children you have to be willing and able to say to them you will give them the support they need for housing, healthcare, food and education so they won't be killing themselves with several jobs or sinking into a black hole of debt.

[PennySycamore]

@singsingsing,  I hope you are right that the goodness of the majority of American people will prevail.

[Georgiana]

One of the reasons fundies hate secular therapy is because therapy asks questions.  And if there is one thing Fundies hate, it's critically questioning something...especially if that something is THEM.

For example, many of the women in this cult probably have issues stemming from being second class citizens.  Josh might be REALLY ANGRY that his parents cheated him out of his future/hopes&dreams by under-educating him.  

I'm not going to speculate, but I'll give a personal example: I love my cousin, but she has her issues, and I have always found being around her to be harmful and draining.  It created a terrible cycle for me, because I felt bad that it was to the point that I could barely talk to her at family events, and then felt guilty about avoiding her and hating every interaction we had.  My therapist helped me realize that the issue was that my family had the expectation that because my cousin has issues, that she would basically be catered to, and that the rest of us had to suspend our personal boundaries for her sake.  My therapist encouraged me to respect and adhere to my personal boundaries, and while my aunt and uncle weren't thrilled, my cousin actually reacted positively.

But see, that's the kind of shit that doesn't fly in fundiedom.  You don't get to question your parents.  You don't get to be mad at them for failing you.  You don't get to respect your boundaries and tell your mom to parent her own damn kids.  Or stand up for yourself.

And fundies are TERRIFIED that one of their children might someday run across a therapist and learn that yes, all of these things are OK.  Because as soon as one person starts with the questions, the critical thought, and the personal agency, the whole house of cards is going to come down.  So they have to instill fear and distrust to keep their kids FAR away from any of that.  

[SweetFellowshipper]

I think the fact that we are the richest country in the world and simultaneously have some of the worst access to health care, worst maternity leave policies, most hate crimes, most police brutality, most racism, highest rates of incarceration, and some of the highest maternal and infant mortality rates in the developed world makes us pretty bullshit. And I don't feel sorry for saying it. 

[Georgiana]

12 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Can I just say something about America? America is not a 'bullshit ass country'. America is a great country with some very serious problems. America is not unique in the world or in history as a superpower in having very serious problems. There are millions of wonderful, intelligent, kind, empathetic Americans who are tirelessly working to make their country and the world a better place. Some of the most important scientific and medical breakthroughs have come out of the United States. Some of the finest educational, scientific, artistic, and social institutions exist there. It's a country with a rich and fascinating history, an incredible diversity of cultures, and absolutely stunning natural beauty. Despite its myriad issues, and especially the issues it's currently facing, it still is one of the most successful democracies the world has ever seen, and I have faith that it will remain that way. I have faith that the goodness of the good people in America will prevail.

Seriously, I love you guys.

-A Canadian

Also, while a "European Nation" culturally, America demographically bears few similarities to the much more homogeneous, post-industrial nations of (especially North and Western) Europe.  There are real questions whether those same policies would be beneficial.  China once tried to wholesale adopt European methods.  It turned into one of the greatest disasters of the 20th Century because due to widespread differences between Europe and China, the policies that were reasonably successful in Europe were complete failures in China.

The American Healthcare System is unique.  America is ALSO the world's research center, research that is largely funded by profits.  Countries that provide free health care do not tend to have large research markets because the cost of healthcare research is beyond their means.  Because global health information is shared, they don't have to.  They largely outsource their research to America, and then take advantage of the shared data to import cutting edge care (that they didn't pay for).  The moment America abolishes this system, healthcare around the world will be impacted as countries will be forced to once again do research themselves, something that likely they will be unable to pay for on a state system.  

Drugs, innovative new treatments, experimental care...that happens everywhere of course, but the vast majority of all that is being done in America.  With reason.  And that reason is profits, lack of regulation, and presence of vast resources which make America a uniquely ideal environment for this field to blossom in.  But our position as the world's research center is a major roadblock to our people getting healthcare.  Which is not OK.  Yet at the same time, our struggles are not because we suck.  They are because we have this massive burden AND WE are paying for THE WORLD'S research.  We can't just drop that or change overnight.  

It's a much bigger issue than most people realize.  

I invite curious Jingerites to check out "The Great Influenza" by John M Barry, as it discusses the rise of the modern American healthcare and research system and specifically discusses the dependency of European healthcare on the American model.  

[nausicaa]

7 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think the fact that we are the richest country in the world and simultaneously have some of the worst access to health care, worst maternity leave policies, most hate crimes, most police brutality, most racism, highest rates of incarceration, and some of the highest maternal and infant mortality rates in the developed world makes us pretty bullshit. And I don't feel sorry for saying it. 

We have the most hate crimes, most police brutality, and most racism? Do you have any sources to back that up? 

We certainly have serious problems with all of those things, but I find it naive, and frankly pretty insular, to think there are not regions in the world with massive problems with these issues. As far as police brutality goes, Sudan, China, Myanmar, and North Korea all come to mind. And I wish racism was limited to the American kind, but unfortunately people all over the world divide themselves into groups along color lines and propagate negative stereotypes about those different from them. 

I find the "America is the worst country ever!" thinking is similar in approach and philosophy to the "America is the best country ever!" thinking. That is, it's intellectually lazy, insular, and weirdly self-aggrandizing. 

[Nikedagain?]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Can I just say something about America? America is not a 'bullshit ass country'. America is a great country with some very serious problems. America is not unique in the world or in history as a superpower in having very serious problems. There are millions of wonderful, intelligent, kind, empathetic Americans who are tirelessly working to make their country and the world a better place. Some of the most important scientific and medical breakthroughs have come out of the United States. Some of the finest educational, scientific, artistic, and social institutions exist there. It's a country with a rich and fascinating history, an incredible diversity of cultures, and absolutely stunning natural beauty. Despite its myriad issues, and especially the issues it's currently facing, it still is one of the most successful democracies the world has ever seen, and I have faith that it will remain that way. I have faith that the goodness of the good people in America will prevail.

Seriously, I love you guys.

-A Canadian

I am so jealous of your prime minister. Wanna trade?