Fundy Walk of Shame: Scandals and Crimes

[47of74]

Jesus Christ

Quote

A day after news reports revealed that a Pearl River priest was caught taping a threesome with two dominatrices on his church altar, an enraged Archbishop Gregory Aymond characterized the priest's actions as "demonic" and said he had burned the altar.

"It is a very tough time right now to be a Catholic in the Archdiocese of New Orleans to say the least," Aymond said in a video message addressed to parishioners that was posted on the archdiocese's website, in response to questions from WWL-TV. 

"Many people feel anger, betrayal and disappointment and I feel the same way, as do my brother priests," he said. "What has happened concerning Pat Wattigny and Travis Clark is unacceptable, it’s sinful and it cannot be tolerated. Let me be clear. Both were removed from ministry immediately and will never serve again in Catholic ministry."

Aymond said that the altar has been burned and a new one will be consecrated Saturday.

 

[Aine]

The Catholic Church addressing this directly is at least an improvement on their usual, "sweep everything under the table, pay off everyone who knows about it and make them sign NDAs, and move the priest to a far away parish or back to a seminary to hide out awhile" move. Right? ??

I almost want to think that the priest lost his faith and just wanted to mess with the Church to do that on tape and in that location...surely it's too much wtf-ery being engaged in for it to be anything else?...?

Born and raised Catholic and I'll say it- at least there weren't kids involved. I wish the action was as swift, public, and immediate when priests commit far more horrific crimes because finding out all of those thousands of crimes covered up by the Church are truly what have made the past couple of decades a "very tough time to be a Catholic."

 

[hoipolloi]

37 minutes ago, Aine said:

I almost want to think that the priest lost his faith and just wanted to mess with the Church to do that on tape and in that location...surely it's too much wtf-ery being engaged in for it to be anything else?...?

Read about this first on Rod Dreher's blog. He's perpetually filled with outrage due to his outsized fundie Christian persecution complex so you can imagine his take on it.

The thought of this (soon-to-be-ex) priest & his apparently paid accomplices playing sex games on the church's altar is extremely repugnant. I can understand the revulsion & upset. OTOH, all three of them *are*  consenting adults. The real harm appears to be the desecration of RCC property (and I guess the priest's broken vows). If the (ex-) priest is forcing non-consensual sexual or abusive behavior on his parishioners or others, that's a different matter but that doesn't seem to be the case, AFAICT. So, yes, you do wonder if the priest lost his faith and just went for it.

And I agree with @Aine -- at least the RC church got right on this & addressed it head on.

[Aine]

@hoipolloi - definitely really gross and extremely disrespectful to his parishioners, colleagues, and any believing Catholic to do something like this in such a sacred place.

I was kind of sarcastically in a way giving credit to the Church for addressing this head on. I was sincere in a way because I think they did the right thing but I don't have much or really any faith that the same diocese or the Church in general would have taken any kind of public action or publicly denounced the same priest if it had been reported to them that he'd abused a child or been sexually inappropriate/abusive to female parishioners. I know there is a lot of bluster from Church leadership and clergy about things changing but there is still little transparency and widespread protection of clergy. Who knows how many NDAs are out there still? And we all know there are many victims out there who will never come forward publicly for a multitude of valid reasons.

I honestly think the only reason they addressed this head on is because it was taped and they knew the tape was going to be leaked to a wider audience or it already had been leaked so they had to act quickly. If the bishops/archbishops had known about it and even seen the tape themselves but were sure they could keep this information among the ordained, I doubt there would have been any public statement about this incident. Maybe they would have replaced the alter but maybe not, maybe they would have told parishioners that the priest involved was being moved to another parish and then they'd have excommunicated him or let him leave the priesthood without any fuss, but I don't think there would have been a public statement.

I'm not anti-Catholic at all. I love so much about the Roman Catholic Church, and going to mass is still one of the most comforting rituals in my life even though I no longer have faith that the beliefs are true (that goes for all of Christianity). I was fortunate enough to attend a Catholic school that I adored and shaped who I am for the better, and I never had any bad experiences or problematic interactions at any parish I attended or with any clergy. In fact, a priest and a nun are two of the most impactful people in my life even today, 15 years after I publicly 'came out' as a non-believer. But I don't think the Church as a whole has become more transparent or less likely to protect priests or nuns who have engaged in abuse despite the inquiries in many countries, some prosecutions, and widespread condemnation of such practices from the public and practicing lay Catholics.

[hoipolloi]

17 minutes ago, Aine said:

I honestly think the only reason they addressed this head on is because it was taped and they knew the tape was going to be leaked to a wider audience or it already had been leaked so they had to act quickly.

I suspect you're correct. 

17 minutes ago, Aine said:

definitely really gross and extremely disrespectful to his parishioners, colleagues, and any believing Catholic to do something like this in such a sacred place.

Absolutely. As I said, the desecration of a sacred precinct was the real harm here which can't be remediated. This is why they had that altar burned and will install & consecrate a new one. Even so, it seems like it would be difficult for church members to re-enter that sanctuary space, knowing what had happened.

What was going on with that ex-priest that he would carry out such elaborately disgusting actions? Had this happened previously? Were there any warnings or indications? We'll likely never find out.

 

[Aine]

57 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

What was going on with that ex-priest that he would carry out such elaborately disgusting actions? Had this happened previously? Were there any warnings or indications? We'll likely never find out.

I think when you repress someone's sexuality for so long, and engaging in any kind of organic mutual sexual attraction, activity, or relationship is off-limits, shameful, and difficult to pursue given that the people who you might be interested in pursuing likely know you're a priest and therefore mostly won't reciprocate or look at you the same way, this is the kind of thing that happens.

Especially if a priest is having a crisis of doubt as they wrestle with their natural desire to have sexual relations, the last people they probably want to pursue that with is someone who is unpaid and might get emotionally attached, and therefore put all the years they've sacrificed to become ordained at risk if they aren't absolutely positive that they want a different life at that stage and life in the clergy is mostly all they've known. I also think it likely results in many seeking out pornography, which could lead them to more kinks that you'd think for a celibate man of the cloth (nothing wrong with kinks as long as they involve mutual consent and are engaged in safely). Not condoning the location this took place in at all but then they have a life with limited locations they have access to that could be private- especially if he doesn't want a sex worker to know he is the actual priest or who he is. Then if you're going to take the above risk, I could see the desire to film it to relive it- it's unlikely he's rolling in extra cash to pay sex workers all the time.

I'm not defending the dude at all. It was wrong. But sex is such a strong human drive and it's not a coincidence that priests are known for sexually assaulting or molesting the least powerful in our society- children. There is no way every priest who has abused children is actually a true pedophile, in line with the actual clinical definition under the umbrella of paraphilias. Most people who abuse children in general are not true pedophiles according to most of the current work on child sexual abuse. It's usually about power, but I also suspect that the reason many priests have done so is yes, the huge power imbalance, but also because that power imbalance and their ability to manipulate it lessens the chance of them being 'exposed' as a sexual being. Whereas hiring sex workers or pursuing adult women or men or people comes with a greater chance of blackmail or being exposed.

I don't think that is a logical thought process they go through before engaging in sexual activity with anyone, especially children, and it definitely doesn't absolve any crimes committed. That includes desecration of sacred objections or the sexual abuse, harassment, or manipulation of anyone else. But I do think that when you artificially try and stamp out a drive that is as natural to most humans as eating, drinking, and sleeping (to a lesser degree on a daily basis obviously) and tell them it is shameful and they will be excluded from the institution they have sacrificed for and given their life to, lose their financial support, lose the respect of their community, and lose their social connections, all because they want to have sex? I think it has a part to play in the issues the Catholic Church has had regarding priests becoming sexual predators, abusers, and engaging in 'deviant' behaviors like this specific example.

Again, absolutely not condoning any criminal behaviors. But I think it's like some of the fundie preachers we follow here who have affairs and engage in bad behaviors because they've been taught that divorce is shameful etc. If you try and tell people that their normal (i.e. not abusive or criminal) drives are somehow wrong, when you make the losses/punishment they may face if they engage in more normal behaviors or acknowledging what they truly want or feel so high, and give them a certain amount of power in the world that they can both use to their advantage but also lose very easily, it's a recipe for things like this to happen. I don't think it will stop happening as regularly as it is in the Catholic Church until they ordain married priests or allow priests to marry.

ETA: Some are truly evil, some are true pedophiles who are exclusively sexually attracted to children, some are truly sexually deviant in as far as raping women and using their power in calculated and horrible ways. I want to stress that! I just also think the 'calling' as a priest, entered into with the best intentions and true faith, can go awry for some partly  because of the extreme restrictions, the negating of a biological drive like sex, and because you give your entire life to the Church (often as a young man) and it becomes your everything and you have everything to lose if you stray and little life experience to see beyond that life in many cases.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Aine

[CaptainFunderpants]

On 10/11/2020 at 2:54 PM, hoipolloi said:

I suspect you're correct. 

Absolutely. As I said, the desecration of a sacred precinct was the real harm here which can't be remediated. This is why they had that altar burned and will install & consecrate a new one. Even so, it seems like it would be difficult for church members to re-enter that sanctuary space, knowing what had happened.

What was going on with that ex-priest that he would carry out such elaborately disgusting actions? Had this happened previously? Were there any warnings or indications? We'll likely never find out.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a group of people that are still tacitly, at the absolute minimum, supporting a bunch of pedophiles.

While what the priest did is in poor taste, everyone was consenting and other priests have no doubt desecrated church property far worse and the parishioners haven't given a shit, so... I'm not giving a shit now. Good on the priest, break free, come to the dark side! We have actual cookies, not communion wafers.

[G33kywife]

Has Ravi Zacharias been discussed here? There have been quite a few allegations against him recently, including a women who he allegedly groomed into having a sexting relationship with. The Roys Report has been reporting extensively on it. Link is in the spoiler, but there are many other articles on her site too. 
 

Spoiler

https://julieroys.com/open-letter-to-rzim-from-brad-lori-anne-thompson/

 

[Ms Tilly]

On 3/16/2017 at 9:52 AM, Bethella said:

March 23, 2017: I don't know if there's enough brain bleach in the world to handle compiling this list. My emotions keep swinging back and forth between rage and crying. This is horrid.

March 20, 2017: This list is obviously incomplete. I know there are a couple of cases listed by the victim's name rather than the perpetrator but I can't take any more nastiness tonight. I'll come back to it in a day or two. Please post if there are people I'm missing or if you see anything that needs to be corrected, I don't know all of these people/cases.

WOW. I knew about a handful of these incidents so when I kept scrolling and scrolling to more and more pages of seemingly never ending info, I'm aghast. Seeing all of these cases put together in one cohesive post is stunning.

Thank you for your service @Bethella Great work! 

 

[hoipolloi]

Not familiar with this guy, Carl Lentz of Hillsong, but he's been fired for a "recent revelation of moral failures."

 

[wendy-sparkles]

deuxmoi (which is a celebrity gossip insta), has had various submissions about it today, it sounds like he's been partying hard and cheating on his wife? but obviously take that with a huge boulder of salt, it might not be true at all.

[Inky]

There was a pic of him doing shots with Justin Bieber in a bar (I think it was todays Blind Gossip). Breaches of trust also mentioned.

[Aine]

He was "unfaithful in (his) marriage."

[Mrs Ms]

Why isn’t he apologising to the other party/parties and their loved ones?

Edited November 12, 2020 by Mrs Ms
Thought of extra people

[JermajestyDuggar]

I read somewhere that Carl’s wife lost her job at the church as well. Sorry but that’s just fucked up in my opinion. Her husband cheats on her so he loses his job and her job? Don’t parishioners see that as all kinds of wrong?

Edited November 12, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[Aine]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I read somewhere that Carl’s wife lost her job at the church as well. Sorry but that’s just fucked up in my opinion. Her husband cheats on her so he loses his job and her job? Don’t parishioners see that as all kinds of wrong?

Did she have an official paid role or was it more "Pastor's wife"? Which should be a paid role in many churches but generally isn't, although no Pastor or Wife-of-Pastor should probably be earning what Hillsong pays their Pastors. The way I kind of took the messaging about Laura "leaving" her role was more that she had an important role within the ministry as Carl's wife but not necessarily an official paid position, so if he goes, she goes.

If she lost her position of employment because her husband had an affair, that is messed up. If she wanted to continue in said position after her husband was fired and the entire world knows he had an affair and the woman who he had said affair with is selling her story about the sex in their extra-marital affair. I have to say, I wouldn't want to stay in such a public position, even more so if I was trying to rehabilitate my marriage.

[Jigsaw3]

Laura was preaching and was referred to as "Co-pastor" and everything I've seen has marketed her as co-equal to Carl. She found out about the affair while at work -- that is, Hillsong -- with no Carl around. Whether or not they got paid separately I don't know, but she clearly had an official role. 

I believe Laura's family of origin is very influential in Hillsong, and she was the one who brought him into the church: he married in. So not only has she lost trust in her marriage and her job, she's also losing her community.

The Sun, trashy tabloid that it is, had an interview with the other woman and it doesn't reflect well on Carl at ALL. He was the one who instigated the relationship, he was pretty manipulative, every time she tried to break it up he dragged her back in, he kept swearing he only loved her and she was his real life partner... he's a real piece of work.

[byzant]

@Jigsaw3thats really interesting  do you have a link by any chance 

[Aine]

On 11/13/2020 at 3:59 AM, byzant said:

@Jigsaw3thats really interesting  do you have a link by any chance 

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/1761816/justin-bieber-pastor-carl-lentz-affair-lied-sports-agent/

[Jigsaw3]

Take this with a tabloid-sized grain of salt, of course, but if even half of what the woman is saying is true, Carl Lentz is a scumbag.

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/1761816/justin-bieber-pastor-carl-lentz-affair-lied-sports-agent/

 

[apple1]

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/hammond-baptist-leader-raped-girl-more-than-4-decades-ago-lawsuit-alleges/article_fcb3a3b4-0f65-52b4-adc6-3a037b374d42.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share 

More info coming out about FBCHammond and HAC. This particular story revolves around Dave Hyles and is a new article about a very old evil.

I'm sorry for the link not being better. (It made me answer one consumer "survey" question to read the article.)

 

 

[Howl]

Very sad, and a deepish dive into the Southern Baptist Convention just not being able to get it right.  Excellent reporting from the Houston Chronicle.  This relates to Jules Woodson's abuse by youth pastor Andy Savage. 

Church in The Woodlands where woman was abused will not face repercussions from SBC

[Bluebirdbluebell]

@JermajestyDuggar has evidence that men from the Bontrager/Bower families were at the rally/act of terrorism/attempted coup today! This is not a drill! It's in their thread, but it's certainly a scandal and a crime!

[NachosFlandersStyle]

13 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

@JermajestyDuggar has evidence that men from the Bontrager/Bower families were at the rally/act of terrorism/attempted coup today! This is not a drill! It's in their thread, but it's certainly a scandal and a crime!

So were Lawson Bates, Jeremiah Campana, and Sam Morton, per those respective threads.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

25 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

So were Lawson Bates, Jeremiah Campana, and Sam Morton, per those respective threads.

If Lawson was there, I hope he gets cancelled!