Jinger and Jeremy: Life with the Soccer Preacher Man

[Cleopatra7]

Just now, 2manyKidzzz said:

Interesting and thank you for this. As a current scholar of this subject is it common belief that mainstream Mormonism is considered basically fundamentalist? 

Since I'm not a scholar specializing in Mormonism, I can't say for sure. The mainstream LDS Church does have a lot of power in those states where Mormons predominate (Utah, parts of Idaho, and Nevada), and Mormon institutions are run with an iron fist; the September Six were a group of Mormon scholars who were excommunicated in 1993 for criticizing or contradicting the official Mormon line on history and doctrine. Part of the problem is that the only scholars really doing research on Mormonism tend to be other Mormons, and as the September Six case illustrates, the church hierarchy will bite back if you inquire too deeply into certain matters, which in turn discourages work on Mormonism. 

[singsingsing]

This is a really interesting topic to me... There are so many ex-Mormons nowadays, you have to wonder if we might see more research into Mormonism from a more objective viewpoint. There's some pretty good stuff on Youtube (I remember watching a presentation a while back where someone went into detail about how Joseph Smith took inspiration and even plagiarized various sources to write the Book of Mormon), but a lot of it is from the perspective of Mormons who have converted to evangelical Christianity.

[kinphilly]

On 2/27/2017 at 0:48 PM, Snarkle Motion said:

 

My comment wasn't really meant to be taken seriously though, just that it had crossed my mind. I tend to think his vanity accounts for why he's more put together than the typical hetero guy. 

I guess I think his clothing is about average for a guy raised in an upper middle class / white collar area on the East Coast ... he's also still pretty new to the show, so I doubt we're seeing his lawn mowing / painting clothes ..

[SassyPants]

I agree with all those saying that sooner or later one of those kids will walk away from the fundie lifestyle. In fact, Josh, who had an Ashley Madison account, already did. There is zero chance that any of these kids will have 19 or more children. Their parents were anomalies; a freak show that people where interested in seeing, so they derived income from their large family. It's all old news now and JB is not going to live forever. I think many of the adult kids just go along to get along. Pretty soon the dominoes will start falling. Maybe Jinger will be the first.

[Lurker]

Many people have stated the personality was trained right out of Jinger to conform to Gothard ideals.  If she is able to be goofy and snarky with Jeremy, roll her eyes at him and make fun/criticize his driving her life has expanded.  If she can be herself rather than the girl behind the mask of keeping sweet constantly, she is better off than before.

Jeremy is a fundy, I disagree with probably every thing he believes in, but in my eyes he seems to like the girl behind the mask and regimented behavior required by Jim-bob.

Would he be what I wanted for my daughter?  No way, and he would find our familys beliefs as repulsive as I think his are.

My daughters wedding last year was celebrated by a female priest, one of the groomsmen is transgender, the ceremony did not mention Christ, and they had readings from Skakespeare and The Velveteen Rabbit instead of the bible.

So when we all complain that Jeremy has kept her in in the fundy world, think of Jinger outside it.  Could you imagine Jinger married to my son?

 

 

 

 

[Jana814]

7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

My daughters wedding last year was celebrated by a female priest, one of the groomsmen is transgender, the ceremony did not mention Christ, and they had readings from Skakespeare and The Velveteen Rabbit instead of the bible.

So when we all complain that Jeremy has kept her in in the fundy world, think of Jinger outside it.  Could you imagine Jinger married to my son?

 

 

 

 

Sounds like a good wedding. I went to a Catholic wedding a few years back. The grooms parents are divorced and remarried and when the priest did the parents blessing and both sets of his parents stood up. I thought the priest was going to have a heart attack. 

[calimojo]

30 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Many people have stated the personality was trained right out of Jinger to conform to Gothard ideals.  If she is able to be goofy and snarky with Jeremy, roll her eyes at him and make fun/criticize his driving her life has expanded.  If she can be herself rather than the girl behind the mask of keeping sweet constantly, she is better off than before.

Jeremy is a fundy, I disagree with probably every thing he believes in, but in my eyes he seems to like the girl behind the mask and regimented behavior required by Jim-bob.

Would he be what I wanted for my daughter?  No way, and he would find our familys beliefs as repulsive as I think his are.

My daughters wedding last year was celebrated by a female priest, one of the groomsmen is transgender, the ceremony did not mention Christ, and they had readings from Skakespeare and The Velveteen Rabbit instead of the bible.

So when we all complain that Jeremy has kept her in in the fundy world, think of Jinger outside it.  Could you imagine Jinger married to my son?

 

 

 

 

you, maybe I am crazy, but I actually could see Jinger being open to people.  I have no doubt that she holds the beliefs she was raised with, but I think person to person, she would be warm and friendly.  Even before she started courting, I always noticed when any of the girls would pose with fans, or with people they met during their 'mission' work  in CA,  that jinger's body language was more open.  She always tended to stand closer to people and turned in towards them where as Jessa tended to look more stiff. 

 

I think if Jinger met someone, and got to know them, I think she would be open to them, even though I am sure she would also condescendingly offer to pray for them to change them away from their sin.  I can't imagine that in the course of Jeremy's life that he hasn't encountered men or women who are gay/lesbian, or bi.  And, I also get the impression that person to person,  individually that he would be pleasant and could maybe even be friends with them, while again,  condescendingly praying for them.  

 

 

 

[Carm_88]

My thing with Jeremy will always be this: He was out in the world, he was exposed to many cultures, many people, many ideas. He became a pastor and married a girl from a Gothard family, one who is supposed to be meek and mild. Jeremy is not a bad looking guy, he could have found an average conservative Christian girl and married her. Hey he could have dated and kissed and not filled out a 50 page questionnaire. So why did he pick Jinger? Only Jeremy knows but I think it says a great deal about him. My gut feeling about him is that it's not good. Of course, he may make Jinger happy and we see him as being different because he's not tweeting about there being no Santa Claus. He's not, deep down inside he's the same hateful colour as Derick, Jim Bob, Ben (Who does seem to be expanding his world view), and all of the other fundies that we snark on. Don't let the shiny newness fool you. He is the same. 

[colors_outside15]

I thought Jeremy's behavior towards the chef in Australia was incredibly distasteful, at best. That, to me, in part showed how he feels towards women, and is willing to treat them immediately if they do not go along with his plan. He wanted a romantic cooking experience, and the chef wasn't offering that. After the first time she politely asked them to stop with the PDA in the kitchen, Jeremy stepped it up. Did he look super charming towards Jinger in that moment? Yes, but it was highly disrespectful towards a professional chef. I don't doubt that off camera, or in the near future, if Jinger wants a different path or is a little snarky, he'll have that exact same attitude. I can see these two being the most likely to hump on a golf course if only because Jeremy wanted to make someone uncomfortable. Maybe it's an overreaction, but my knee jerk response was, "FUCK NO"! 

[mizandry]

I kind of suspect that the whole scene in the kitchen was staged for clickbait content to save this dwindling cult series, to be honest. I don't really have much evidence to go off of on that, other than this being a reality TV show with producers and Jim Bob involved to some capacity... but yeah, just a hunch.  

[nastyhobbitses]

7 hours ago, calimojo said:

you, maybe I am crazy, but I actually could see Jinger being open to people.  I have no doubt that she holds the beliefs she was raised with, but I think person to person, she would be warm and friendly.  Even before she started courting, I always noticed when any of the girls would pose with fans, or with people they met during their 'mission' work  in CA,  that jinger's body language was more open.  She always tended to stand closer to people and turned in towards them where as Jessa tended to look more stiff. 

 

I think if Jinger met someone, and got to know them, I think she would be open to them, even though I am sure she would also condescendingly offer to pray for them to change them away from their sin.  I can't imagine that in the course of Jeremy's life that he hasn't encountered men or women who are gay/lesbian, or bi.  And, I also get the impression that person to person,  individually that he would be pleasant and could maybe even be friends with them, while again,  condescendingly praying for them.  

 

 

 

Ah, the "but you're one of the good ones" pronouncement of friendship.

[danni9242]

I think Jeremy's biggest draw was the TV series to promote his ministry. 

He came from playing soccer where you get lots of attention andhe's in a small church plant he needs to grow. If he wanted a Fundie wife he didn't need to go after a Duggar just for that.

I HOPE mixed in with that he had seen the show and actually liked Jinger and saw that spark many of us could see. It really does seem that he is interested in her and they seemed relaxed together. Jinger does seem freer to say how she feels and to make fun and express how she feels even if it's sick on a boat instead of just smiling on through. I'm having flashbacks of a pregnant Michelle on a boat in San Francisco Bay. I think over time if we see them we'll see more of that sparky Jinger as she'll have more freedom in Laredo than any of her siblings do. Jeremy is Fundie but his family are very different to say Anna's or Austin's and as none of the kids are likely to get a liberal spouse without having to lose their family he's better than some options. If they avoid a million kids I think Mrs/Grandma Vuolo will have a good impact on her and she will genuinely be happy.

I am not sure on the PDAs and disrespecting the chef. Part of me says it was a bit of a setup (like just rocking up to join the man playing didgeridoos) where Jeremy/the chef played up the affection/how cross they were. Part of me says they are just genuinely enjoying being allowed more than a quick hug and holding hands (flashbacks of Josh and Anna's hand holding period). Part of me does think he has the ability to be quite rude or has that side of him where internally he's thinking, 'Yeah, whatever', like his face when JB started about his income over dinner.

 

[HandHoldingHeathen]

5 hours ago, mizandry said:

I kind of suspect that the whole scene in the kitchen was staged for clickbait content to save this dwindling cult series, to be honest. I don't really have much evidence to go off of on that, other than this being a reality TV show with producers and Jim Bob involved to some capacity... but yeah, just a hunch.  

Agreed 100%

[nst]

I think it was scripted - yet at the same time - the chef was kinda of being a bitch.  But then Jeremy and Jinge asked for it because they were on tv.   

If you want a real honeymoon - don't take a tv show. 

We never saw Jill and Derick on their honeymoon - we just saw three pictures. 

The tidbit that they had a hot tub spoke volumes - can you get pregnant in a hot tub? 

 

[SassyPants]

42 minutes ago, nst said:

I think it was scripted - yet at the same time - the chef was kinda of being a bitch.  But then Jeremy and Jinge asked for it because they were on tv.   

If you want a real honeymoon - don't take a tv show. 

We never saw Jill and Derick on their honeymoon - we just saw three pictures. 

The tidbit that they had a hot tub spoke volumes - can you get pregnant in a hot tub? 

 

And of course, no TLC on a honeymoon= a couple of days at a US continental  beach-not HI, Not Europe, Australia, NZ or Asia.

[kacarlton]

I agree with all those saying that sooner or later one of those kids will walk away from the fundie lifestyle. In fact, Josh, who had an Ashley Madison account, already did. There is zero chance that any of these kids will have 19 or more children. Their parents were anomalies; a freak show that people where interested in seeing, so they derived income from their large family. It's all old news now and JB is not going to live forever. I think many of the adult kids just go along to get along. Pretty soon the dominoes will start falling. Maybe Jinger will be the first.

And, imo, and purely statistically speaking, at least one of the kids will be gay. But I doubt they'd ever figure it out.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

19 hours ago, Kira said:

We think the other couples are unhappy because they aren't living they way we want them to. I

This right here. I was torn yesterday when the tide turned from people talking nicely about JinJer to how they are horrible. I while I agree their beliefs are horrible, Jeremy seems like a nice guy who is very much in love with Jinger, and he is allowing her (because that is what she expects) to dress less frumpy fundy and more classically stylish, and show a bit more skin, while wearing properly fitting clothes. I'm very much the live and let live person, I don't care so much how you live your life as long as you allow others the same courtesy.  If the Duggar's kept their mouths shut about gays & trans people I wouldn't take much, if any issue with their life. Hell no would I live it and I'd still be horrified at how they treat their daughters, and adult unmarried children. I would think they were weird and tell my kids to stay away from them, of course they wouldn't let their kids anywhere near my liberal heathen brats, but it would be a mutual feeling.

At this point my biggest hope for the kids as they marry is to have a reasonable number of kids and to keep their horrible options on non white, non cis gendered, non christian people to themselves.  I won't tell them how to live their lives if they don't tell other how to live theirs. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

My thing with Jeremy will always be this: He was out in the world, he was exposed to many cultures, many people, many ideas. He became a pastor and married a girl from a Gothard family, one who is supposed to be meek and mild. Jeremy is not a bad looking guy, he could have found an average conservative Christian girl and married her. Hey he could have dated and kissed and not filled out a 50 page questionnaire. So why did he pick Jinger? Only Jeremy knows but I think it says a great deal about him. My gut feeling about him is that it's not good. Of course, he may make Jinger happy and we see him as being different because he's not tweeting about there being no Santa Claus. He's not, deep down inside he's the same hateful colour as Derick, Jim Bob, Ben (Who does seem to be expanding his world view), and all of the other fundies that we snark on. Don't let the shiny newness fool you. He is the same. 

I wonder about this and for all we know Jeremy and Jinger met on a mission trip and he fell for her very quickly. It does happen. While he may not be a gothardite he is a conservative christian, and he did have to play boobs game but perhaps he did so because he really did like her. IF it is true that they met on a mission trip and then he cozied up to the Ben so he could get a meeting with boob. and that was how he was going to get her. I believe that, I don't think it was to "save her from fundydum" it was just to marry her and move her into a different kind of fundydum, but they both seem pretty happy about it so good for them.

[justmy2cents]

39 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I wonder about this and for all we know Jeremy and Jinger met on a mission trip and he fell for her very quickly. It does happen. While he may not be a gothardite he is a conservative christian, and he did have to play boobs game but perhaps he did so because he really did like her. IF it is true that they met on a mission trip and then he cozied up to the Ben so he could get a meeting with boob. and that was how he was going to get her. I believe that, I don't think it was to "save her from fundydum" it was just to marry her and move her into a different kind of fundydum, but they both seem pretty happy about it so good for them.

They didn't meet on a mission trip.  They met through Ben and Jessa about half a year before.  He was interested in Jinger so went on the trip as a way to get to know her better and then asked JB if they can start communicating.

[prayawaythefundie]

2 hours ago, nst said:

The tidbit that they had a hot tub spoke volumes - can you get pregnant in a hot tub? 

 

You can get pregnant pretty much everywhere. (I was going to add "in my experience" but then I realised I've never been pregnant )

[KelseyAnn]

20 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Regarding anyone attempting to trick JB I think would take an extremely skilled con artist to accomplish it.   While JB can come off as an idiot many times, I think when it comes to doing business, he looks like he can be pretty smart and savvy.  He's going about vetting suitors the same way and I don't think very much can get past him.  To be fair, he's probably had to deal with all sorts of guys approaching him about a daughter, we know he's dealt with his share of fanboys.  He can probably sniff out someone "faking" it miles away.  

 

You can' bullshit a bullshtter. 

[justmy2cents]

9 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

You can get pregnant pretty much everywhere. (I was going to add "in my experience" but then I realised I've never been pregnant )

Pretty much though hot tubs would not be recommended.  Bad for sperm and not good for embryos either.

[KelseyAnn]

I notice that we always talk about one of the girls (women) escaping with the help of a husband. But what about the opposite? 

I can see a cute, friendly girl flirting her way past Jim-Bob's defenses into being 'allowed' to court one of the boys- especially if she can put on a good act. 

And naive or not, I can see the boys having a little more freedom in their courtships so secret conversations can happen. 

J-Boy, "Okay, if this is going to work, you have to answer this question this particular way." 

And quite honestly, I'm sure there a few kids Jim-Bob wouldn't mind "getting rid of." Especially ones that aren't so docile and willing to conform. 

 

[prayawaythefundie]

@KelseyAnn In theory, I think it's possible but would any of the Duggar boys even be attractive to not-so-fundy girls? Who would want a man trained in nothing, raised to believe that his wife should not work, not use birth control and always joyfully submit to his will? Why invest lots of time and energy in trying to change him when she can have someone wo already acccepts the concept of her being an indepedent human being?

For the not-so-fundy man it's way more attractive to marry a Duggar daughter IMO, whether he wants to "free" her or not. He can either be a hero without having to work hard or he will always get his way without having to work hard.

[HarleyQuinn]

1 minute ago, prayawaythefundie said:

@KelseyAnn In theory, I think it's possible but would any of the Duggar boys even be attractive to not-so-fundy girls? Who would want a man trained in nothing, raised to believe that his wife should not work, not use birth control and always joyfully submit to his will? Why invest lots of time and energy in trying to change him when she can have someone wo already acccepts the concept of her being an indepedent human being?

For the not-so-fundy man it's way more attractive to marry a Duggar daughter IMO, whether he wants to "free" her or not. He can either be a hero without having to work hard or he will always get his way without having to work hard.

This is what's hard for me to wrap around too. Why would any woman go looking for a man that will treat her second class like Fundies do? Unless they're from a lower fundie family trying to marry up the ladder, I don't see the appeal. 

Does anyone know what the Caldwells are like since Joseph is probably courting one? Are they trying to move up the fundie ladder? Are the Duggars even still towards the top of said ladder?