Girl Defined

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

On 9/18/2019 at 12:04 PM, AtTara said:

Re: Girl Defined, bless their hearts, they make my teeth grind.  They are the people for whom the saying "I can't even" was created.

If you think their videos are bad, don't even touch Dave and Bethy's Instagram stories. It's downright painful. In the first twenty seconds of today's story, they felt the need to include "we still love each other!" shortly before launching into a diatribe about how EVERYONE is just dying for their advice on sex. Which probably means some 16-year-olds sent them DMs asking them to talk about it. It seems to be a common thing for new-wave married fundies to overshare about sex, and people just gobble it up. 

I think I have some insight on that. I grew up not-quite-fundie, but was homeschooled in a large family. I never got "the talk" or any sex-ed whatsoever besides Christian books that my parents had given to my older siblings, left around, and probably just assumed I'd find. I read and re-read the sections on sex in those books over and over again. Not because I didn't understand, but because for someone as sheltered as I was, it was titillating. Eventually I moved on to the "harder stuff", by which I mean erotic fanfiction on tumblr, but for a while there even the "godliest" discussions about sex would do it for me.

I'm 98% certain that that's effectively what this "trend" is. Softcore porn for incredibly sheltered people. I think it's good that Christians are speaking more openly about sex, but the people who are the most vocal and open are the ones who have no business giving other people advice. Like Dave and Bethy, who have about as much chemistry as Vladimir Putin and a drag queen. 

 

[HeadshipRegent]

Juuuust gonna leave this here, new things about GD’s trip to Poland and Austria. 

[Exchange Atheist]

I just came here to post the same Reddit comment. I‘m torn between facepalming, utter horror and an apathetic shrug. Like, yes, this is what happens when people are sheltered and homeschooled by parents with questionable beliefs, so why am I even surprised? Of course they’re not descendants of Austrian refugees, or we’d have never heard the end of it. Of course they have no idea what actually happened in Nazi Austria. Of course they’d take smiling selfies in front of Nazi sites. Of course they’d never think of educating themselves about anything their parents told them, including their family history. 

But still. The nerve!!!

[TuringMachine]

Well I barely follow these people, but now I am enraged.

[Cheetah]

Came here for this... I also barely follow these people but I do follow FundieSnark on reddit.  Someone on their dug even deeper and has laid it all out in a longer post -

 

 

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

They made the "news"!  I am highly amused. I'm looking forward to a statement by them how "of course nazis are bad but we're not ashamed of our heritage!" Also, I'm sure Bethany is absolutely pissing her overalls at being called an "influencer" and being mentioned in the same article as Pewdipie. 

To be clear, I don't fault them for being descended from Nazis. I do, however, hold them at great fault for not acknowledging this, and rather choosing to present their family as victims. I fault them for smiling next to Nazi gravestones and acting as if it's enriching for them to know what their ancestors "went through" as oppressors. Look, I get that they were homeschooled. I get that they're a bit dim. But that isn't an excuse. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen a smiling posed-at-a-holocaust-memorial post from them, but I'm taking a social media break so there might be one and I wouldn't know. 

I don't think it's a great idea to bring up Nazism in the family tree every time Tweedledum and Tweedledee bring up how tall and blonde they are, but I certainly hope this shows some of their following what self-absorbed twats they are. I doubt they didn't know who their ancestor was. I also highly doubt they would completely disagree with him. I'm not making a direct accusation, but there is a frighteningly high cooccurence of quiverfull, patriarchy, and racism--and the poor education and incredibly limited exposure to reality only increases the odds. 

ETA: squatting next to gravestones with her husband and a huge grin is not a new thing for Bethany. A while back she posted a very similar picture next to the grave of her brother who died 8 years ago a few hours after being born. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Sonic the Whoredgehog

[16strong]

Irrelevant to today's discussion on the girls' increasingly nasty beliefs, I know, but I just want to say that every time I see Bethy, she pings my gaydar so hard. Everyone always speculates about Dave, but Bethy... I wish these girls had grown up with the opportunity to discover themselves and to not feel like they always have to fit in a box and live up to other people's expectations. Bethany in particular seemed like she only married for status and to fit in. What happens when the novelty of reaching other people's standards wears off and the reality that she doesn't fit in that box sets in?

[Giraffe]

Just now, 16strong said:

Irrelevant to today's discussion on the girls' increasingly nasty beliefs, I know, but I just want to say that every time I see Bethy, she pings my gaydar so hard. Everyone always speculates about Dave, but Bethy... I wish these girls had grown up with the opportunity to discover themselves and to not feel like they always have to fit in a box and live up to other people's expectations. Bethany in particular seemed like she only married for status and to fit in. What happens when the novelty of reaching other people's standards wears off and the reality that she doesn't fit in that box sets in?

I agree that she seems like she married in order to get out of the “old maid” fundy group she was most likely getting lumped into. I enjoy being single and I was still fundy in my late 20’s/early 30’s.

Single + content + 30something just confused the crap out of people. They don’t have a box for that. 

[Soulhuntress]

Well that is not surprising.  At least they are not hanging with the Seppis is the nicest thing I can say.  Shudders

[NachosFlandersStyle]

1 hour ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

Look, I get that they were homeschooled. I get that they're a bit dim. But that isn't an excuse.

100% co-sign. You do not write blog posts about how you "grew up listening to [your] grandmother tell story after story of her life in the far-away land of Austria" and then visit the town and track down all the landmarks related to the Nazi in question and drop carefully worded insta comments about everything your family "went through" and then turn around and claim you didn't know.

She absolutely knows about the Nazis and the fact that her ancestors were among them. What she's ignorant about is the fact that this shit is a Big Deal, that it's not something that absentminded blond girls get to tee-hee about. Where her homeschooling fell short (like way, way, way short) was in exposing her to the humanity of people beyond her immediate community; impressing upon her that this kind of history is not just words in a book but a not-so-distant matter of serious gravity; and in teaching her how to hold complex or critical thoughts, even about the things and people close to her.

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

2 hours ago, 16strong said:

Bethany in particular seemed like she only married for status and to fit in. What happens when the novelty of reaching other people's standards wears off and the reality that she doesn't fit in that box sets in?

That, but also she married because she's been obsessed with sex since she hit puberty. She and Kristen have discussed "struggling" with "porn addiction", masturbation, and "Same Sex Attraction" but frankly I can't remember which one said what. I don't have a great gaydar despite being bi, and when it does go off it's usually wishful thinking. Needless to say, that did not happen with Bethany. 

The novelty seemed to be wearing off in a big way right before she announced her pregnancy, so she has that to distract her for now but I really do think she's realizing that a stilted marriage and stilted sex are not, in fact, all that and a bag of chips. If I were a better person I'd feel bad for her. 

2 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

What she's ignorant about is the fact that this shit is a Big Deal, that it's not something that absentminded blond girls get to tee-hee about. Where her homeschooling fell short (like way, way, way short) was in exposing her to the humanity of people beyond her immediate community; impressing upon her that this kind of history is not just words in a book but a not-so-distant matter of serious gravity; and in teaching her how to hold complex or critical thoughts, even about the things and people close to her.

You said this so much better than I ever could. I genuinely don't think she and people of her ilk view "others" as fully human. She's said before that she "cringes" at just hearing the words Muslim, prostitute, or gay. I don't expect her to have much empathy for holocaust victims. They're not human to people like her, they're blurry, black-and-white photographs of faceless skin and bones, heaped in piles or thrown in pits. They're unfortunate casualties of an unfortunate war her ancestors were unfortunately involved in. 

[Exchange Atheist]

6 hours ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen a smiling posed-at-a-holocaust-memorial post from them, but I'm taking a social media break so there might be one and I wouldn't know. 

There is a picture of them smiling in front of a former SS-led prison, if that counts?

And yes, the only surprising thing about a happy concentration camp selfie would be the fact that they bothered to visit the site at all. If they were to go to Berlin, I would be completely shocked if they didn’t do an oh so funny pose on top of the Holocaust memorial. Don’t know if that’s on their itinerary, though.

 

2 hours ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

They're not human to people like her, they're blurry, black-and-white photographs of faceless skin and bones, heaped in piles or thrown in pits. 

Very well said. I absolutely believe that this is a product of their upbringing, especially the constant othering of everyone who’s not the Right Kind of Christian. The Holocaust is so often framed as the inevitable conclusion to atheism, socialism and feminism — of course it will at same point be seen as just another part of the evil world, same as abortions, universal healthcare or women showing skin. If everything’s an atrocity in the eyes of God, the Holocaust isn’t all that unique.  And if the Holocaust isn’t unique, Nazi grandfathers aren’t a very big deal either. 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

7 hours ago, Exchange Atheist said:

I absolutely believe that this is a product of their upbringing, especially the constant othering of everyone who’s not the Right Kind of Christian. The Holocaust is so often framed as the inevitable conclusion to atheism, socialism and feminism — of course it will at same point be seen as just another part of the evil world, same as abortions, universal healthcare or women showing skin. If everything’s an atrocity in the eyes of God, the Holocaust isn’t all that unique.  

I think this is an important point. Their crowd loves to make comparisons between the Holocaust and abortion. But I strongly suspect that if their ancestor had been a prominent advocate for reproductive rights, they would not be posting about their fun, interesting family history. "We live in a fallen world" is a nice cover for the fact that they clearly care very, very much about certain petty kinds of "sin" while paying little to no mind to the real oppression of others.

[Giraffe]

51 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I think this is an important point. Their crowd loves to make comparisons between the Holocaust and abortion. But I strongly suspect that if their ancestor had been a prominent advocate for reproductive rights, they would not be posting about their fun, interesting family history. "We live in a fallen world" is a nice cover for the fact that they clearly care very, very much about certain petty kinds of "sin" while paying little to no mind to the real oppression of others.

“We live in a fallen world” also could have been the beginning of a great Holocaust education for people. Something like,

“We live in a fallen world, and part of that includes evil people doing evil, heinous things. Unfortunately, that’s my heritage - an evil man doing evil to countless human beings who deserved to live their full lives. I was shocked to find out that the house where this evil man lived, is still owned by my family. Please donate to your local Holocaust Remembrance program. The evil & torture, and unimaginable cruelty Nazis like my ancestors inflicted needs to be remembered by all generations to come.”

But nope, let’s just take pretty pictures instead. 

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

13 hours ago, Exchange Atheist said:

There is a picture of them smiling in front of a former SS-led prison, if that counts?

And yes, the only surprising thing about a happy concentration camp selfie would be the fact that they bothered to visit the site at all. If they were to go to Berlin, I would be completely shocked if they didn’t do an oh so funny pose on top of the Holocaust memorial. Don’t know if that’s on their itinerary, though.

Of fucking course there is ?‍♀️did the SOTDRT just not cover any sort of etiquette or social norms? 

Those Berlin holocaust memorial photoshoots really get my goat. If they are headed there, hopefully the backlash will wise them up a bit. I've seen people argue that the designer (who is not German) wanted people to enjoy the site. However, IIRC there are very large, very clear signs at the site informing that the memorial is not to be played on and to maintain a respectful atmosphere. 

But on the other hand, I visited a few years ago and there was a group of small children, probably 7-8 at the oldest playing hide and seek in the monument. They were laughing and squealing as little kids do, and it was oddly comforting to hear children's laughter echoing in those oppressive concrete blocks. They weren't old enough to fully understand what that place meant. It seems right to let little children play there, but the teenagers taking artsy pictures and doing "parkour" can fuck right off

[raspberrymint]

I don't know how people can be so callous, even with the upbringing.  I had the upbringing, but granted, I'm not quite white enough to not have been othered for it by my own family, among other excuses for being othered.

[Cheetah]

Well her FB pictures have now been deleted and all of the Nazi comments on the instagram posts have been scrubbed.  I understand why she wouldn't want to leave them up but I really hope she took them to heart.... not as an attack but as a chance to think more deeply about what the events of WWII meant for a lot of families who were way less fortunate than hers.  Sometimes I wonder what it is about these Fundies that gets my goat so deeply that I spend so much time online ... I feel sometimes like I'm just turning into another middle-aged person who is doing this generation's version of reading the celebrity column of women's magazines and tut-tutting about so-and-so.  But then something like this crops up where I am reminded what's at stake with these armies of fresh faced poorly homeschooled young idiots who don't really understand the lessons of the Holocaust or the civil rights movement or why we need the separation of church and state.  

[freethemall]

On 10/9/2019 at 7:41 PM, Cheetah said:

Well her FB pictures have now been deleted and all of the Nazi comments on the instagram posts have been scrubbed.  I understand why she wouldn't want to leave them up but I really hope she took them to heart.... not as an attack but as a chance to think more deeply about what the events of WWII meant for a lot of families who were way less fortunate than hers.  Sometimes I wonder what it is about these Fundies that gets my goat so deeply that I spend so much time online ... I feel sometimes like I'm just turning into another middle-aged person who is doing this generation's version of reading the celebrity column of women's magazines and tut-tutting about so-and-so.  But then something like this crops up where I am reminded what's at stake with these armies of fresh faced poorly homeschooled young idiots who don't really understand the lessons of the Holocaust or the civil rights movement or why we need the separation of church and state.  

All still there on Instagram but she's deleting any comments that aren't complimentary.  I have no doubt they're going to see themselves as victims in all this and that any apology will be of the "sorry we said anything to offend" variety. 

 

[Soulhuntress]

2 hours ago, freethemall said:

All still there on Instagram but she's deleting any comments that aren't complimentary.  I have no doubt they're going to see themselves as victims in all this and that any apology will be of the "sorry we said anything to offend" variety. 

 

They must have suffered so.  To Bethy and Daaaaav Roma, Sinti and Jewish eyewitnesses may they rest in peace have a slightly different take on historical events.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by Soulhuntress

[Giraffe]

I’m sure it’s a matter of “we were just trying to bring you along on our lovely vacation and thought you would care to share with us! We never intended for you to take it and turn our beautiful, innocent vacation into something more than it was - us visiting our family’s homestead and enjoying the local sites. We don’t want to cloud our memories of this happy time together and so we’ve taken the liberty of deleting any comments that would cause us to reevaluate our lives. We appreciate your understanding and remember: Jesus loves you!! ?”

?‍♀️??

[Hane]

On 9/7/2019 at 11:48 PM, Beermeet said:

 

(Sorry—fatfingered another empty quote box.)

My first MIL was born in Germany in 1911 but moved to NYC to live with her married older sister in the late ‘20s. That meant that the family was split on different sides of WWII. Her little sister was in Jungmädelbund, which the family said was something like “mandatory Girl Scouts.” Once my MIL sent her a cute black doll as a gift, and their father was livid. In the ‘70s, her siblings and in-laws came to the US to visit, and we were able to have substantive discussions about German life during the war.

The father of a friend was in Hitler Youth.  He said that they were given luxurious camping trips—with better food, clothing, and transportation than what other kids could get—as a way of attracting kids to the organization. 

These stories point directly to what is wrong with Girl Defined’s reasoning. There is no nuanced thought, only the black-and-white “party line.” Anything that’s uncomfortable or that might challenge the “logic” of “Look how good and right we are because Bible!” (I won’t even say Jesus, because his teachings are obviously tangential to them) gets swept under the rug.

I firmly believe Bethany just expunged the comments she didn’t like because a nuanced conversation about complicated family history would have made her look “liberal,” and we can’t have that.

[quiversR4hunting]

If anyone wants to read a fictional book about the struggle of Nazi Germany I suggest "Women in the Castle" the author, Jessica Shattuck, is half German. She found and author of her granddad in in a Nazi uniform. So that prompted this book about what it was like to live in Nazi Germany. It is fiction but based on real stories from the time. 

Here is an article and interview from NPR: https://www.npr.org/2017/03/25/521269261/these-women-in-the-castle-provide-new-perspectives-on-nazi-germany 

Here are reviews of it on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30653967-the-women-in-the-castle 

Sorry, I left off my thought of why I am posting this book. This is how people who have Nazis in their family history can help show the nuances of what happened in Germany to some of the people caught in the middle of WWII and trying to survive. What this author did was give perspective and education (in a fictional setting), the girl define girls are not doing anything but glossing over their ancestors. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by quiversR4hunting
finished my thought about posting the book

[Cheetah]

I went to a funeral a couple of years ago for a man who had been in the Hitler youth when he was a young teen.  He was a member of our church... husband of a good (much older) friend of mine, but had had dementia for the past 10 years or so.  I didn't know that part of his history until the funeral - they had a long bio on the funeral program and that part was included.  It was really fascinating and I'm glad the family didn't gloss over it.   I think like mentioned above, it was like mandatory boy scouts.  He then ended up in East Germany after the country was divided and had to leave his family in order to escape across the border and rely on the kindness of strangers for a while.  

[Themanda Duggar]

On 10/9/2019 at 3:46 PM, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

But on the other hand, I visited a few years ago and there was a group of small children, probably 7-8 at the oldest playing hide and seek in the monument. They were laughing and squealing as little kids do, and it was oddly comforting to hear children's laughter echoing in those oppressive concrete blocks.

I’m a Jew, and was born over 20 years after the holocaust, but it’s legacy lives in me in many ways.  To me, the thought of children laughing and playing on this memorial is profoundly beautiful.  It’s like the sweetest revenge.  We’re still here, our children still thrive, and the music of their laughter continues to echo through all of our generations.

thanks for your post.

[The Mother Dust]

On 10/8/2019 at 11:11 PM, Giraffe said:

I agree that she seems like she married in order to get out of the “old maid” fundy group she was most likely getting lumped into. I enjoy being single and I was still fundy in my late 20’s/early 30’s.

Single + content + 30something just confused the crap out of people. They don’t have a box for that. 

"The ability of women to say no, to live without being paired up was the single greatest step made in women’s rights all over the world." - Beatrice Louis.       More women need to read this quote.  I love it.