Girl Defined

[The Mother Dust]

7 minutes ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

Only once they've had it. Before the wedding, it's this magical, holy, mind-blowing thing that will change you forever. Afterwards, I think a lot of them either resign themselves to thinking that sex just isn't that great, or worse, that something is wrong with them. But honestly, and I hope this isn't too BEC of me, Bethy probably doesn't know what it's actually like to have someone be passionately attracted to her. 

Before the internet and sex getting less taboo, I'm sure a lot of women (and men) didn't know any better but I'm guessing even the fundies do their research these days. There's quite a few sites for "Christian" sex advice, some of  out there which are actually kind of helpful and not that different from secular sex advice except for the whole "only if you're married" thing. 

Sidenote, my nephew is really into Sonic the Hedgehog, whenever I go visit, he asks to watch it with me on my laptop.  Your avatar/name  will now make me think of bad things when I watch it LOL 
Returning to the topic....Christian sex advice lol.  "This is how you blow her back out with Jesus 101."   ?

??

[singsingsing]

Oh fuck, of course he's into Enneagram. Sorry, I was involved in the "progressive" Christian sphere for way too long and certain Christian culture things are still irrational pet peeves for me. One of them is that they're all fucking obsessed with Enneagram. ?

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

@The Mother Dust I'm sorry ? Lame backstory, my husband is also a Sonic fan and wants me to come with him to the midnight release of the Sonic movie which comes out next valentine's day. I told him if he didn't make me go, I'd wear a slutty Sonic costume and referred to myself as my username. He was much less amused than I was because I have a terrible sense of humor, but three drinks later I decided to make an account here, and here we are. 

A positively depressing amount of Christian sex advice is for wives who simply don't enjoy it, but at least they have those resources. The other has a pleasant emphasis on mutual pleasure and usually says anything but porn, orgies, and anal is okay. I did some research before my own wedding, but didn't learn much I didn't already know, lol. 

[louisa05]

18 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Girl Defined seems like an absolute goldmine of snark, and yet I can't bring myself to watch any of it because the one sister creeps me out so much. She's 30 years old but in every picture I've seen of her, she's dressed like a giant toddler. Apparently it's not a joke. That's just how she chooses to style herself. Exactly like a 2-year-old on a play date. WHY? It's like something out of a horror movie! 

Nailed it. 

Toddler clothes and hair accessories that are the envy of first graders everywhere. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

45 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Nailed it. 

Toddler clothes and hair accessories that are the envy of first graders everywhere. 

 

Does she do this to look younger because she’s 30 now? It’s strange.

[Giraffe]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Does she do this to look younger because she’s 30 now? It’s strange.

I’ve only know one person IRL who dressed the same way and yes, she did it so that kids would think she was cool. All it did was make her stand out and seem even more inaccessible than she already was.

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

In regards to Bethy's toddler costumes, if you scroll back on her Instagram to before Dave she dresses quite differently, and looks much more her age and I think, a good bit better. She didn't start with the whole overalls and citrusandlemon dresses over t-shirts thing until he came along, though the backwards baseball cap has made a number of unfortunate appearances. I think she's intentionally infantilizing herself because a) she's insecure about being taller and older than her husband and b) she wishes she was at her current sEaSoN oF lIfE when she was much younger. ETA: Or maybe Dave has a kink. 

Also in my stalking to confirm this theory, I found a post saying she was getting her concealed carry license. I really hope she doesn't actually carry because frankly, an angry incel with an AR scares me less than a Bible Belt Barbie with a handgun. She has the impulse control of a 6-week-old puppy. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sonic the Whoredgehog
forgot the nastiest possibility of all

[Giraffe]

@Sonic the Whoredgehog, you might have something on her wanting to look younger for her much younger husband. She’s failing at it epically, but I think that’s a realistic possibility. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I didn’t realize he was so much younger. But then again, Bethany is so immature that it wouldn’t have shocked me if someone said she was 17.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

The fundie snark subreddit is full of people commenting on GD's various social media.
 

It being reddit there's a lot of self-satisfaction. GD have apparently either limited comments or stopped them. I feel this has only intensified the feeling that "The World"is against  Their Most Holy Testamony

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

I left that sub (and reddit in general) a while back and that whole thing makes me glad I got out when I did. They're brigading, which most corners of the internet disapprove of but FS has turned it into a masturbatory karma farm.

4 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

I feel this has only intensified the feeling that "The World"is against  Their Most Holy Testamony

Exactly. I grew up around people like Bethany and Kristen. I was one until high school. They simply do not care about backlash or rebuke unless it comes from someone who is, in their eyes, senior to them in the faith. Anything else is "persecution" and will only make them dig in their heels, and the profanity and name-calling only make them more righteous in their own minds. I've only done a cursory scroll-through of what the sub has been up to, but I don't recall seeing any arguments that would be effective to a very self - assured fundie in those screenshots. I'm sure many of them mean well, but they're like water off a fundamentalist ducks back. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

I left that sub (and reddit in general) a while back and that whole thing makes me glad I got out when I did. They're brigading, which most corners of the internet disapprove of but FS has turned it into a masturbatory karma farm.

Exactly. I grew up around people like Bethany and Kristen. I was one until high school. They simply do not care about backlash or rebuke unless it comes from someone who is, in their eyes, senior to them in the faith. Anything else is "persecution" and will only make them dig in their heels, and the profanity and name-calling only make them more righteous in their own minds. I've only done a cursory scroll-through of what the sub has been up to, but I don't recall seeing any arguments that would be effective to a very self - assured fundie in those screenshots. I'm sure many of them mean well, but they're like water off a fundamentalist ducks back. 

I look at it this way: When someone is trolling you online, do you pay them much attention? No. I easily ignore trolls. Kristin and Bethany see people like Mr Atheist the same way we see trolls. Of course he is no troll. Not even close. But that’s how they see him. So they pay him no attention. Even if I was super polite and respectful when directly disagreeing with K and B, they would pay me no mind because I’m not a Christian. 

[DarkAnts]

6 hours ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

I left that sub (and reddit in general) a while back and that whole thing makes me glad I got out when I did. They're brigading, which most corners of the internet disapprove of but FS has turned it into a masturbatory karma farm.

Exactly. I grew up around people like Bethany and Kristen. I was one until high school. They simply do not care about backlash or rebuke unless it comes from someone who is, in their eyes, senior to them in the faith. Anything else is "persecution" and will only make them dig in their heels, and the profanity and name-calling only make them more righteous in their own minds. I've only done a cursory scroll-through of what the sub has been up to, but I don't recall seeing any arguments that would be effective to a very self - assured fundie in those screenshots. I'm sure many of them mean well, but they're like water off a fundamentalist ducks back. 

In their not an apology video they justified saying GiG is not Christian by says Jesus use to call out the pharisees. They are just like Jesus except not. Jesus was never a mean girl.

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, DarkAnts said:

In their not an apology video they justified saying GiG is not Christian by says Jesus use to call out the pharisees. They are just like Jesus except not. Jesus was never a mean girl.

Ha. If anyone is a pharisee it’s them. I’m not Christian so I don’t believe in Pharisees but the description fits Bethany and Kristin much more.

[Closed Womb]

I think the Girl Defined duo (especially Bethany) are bothered by the comments.  They’ll say that it’s persecution and proof that satan wants their message shut down, or something akin to that, but privately they (especially Bethany) want people to like them. They want praise and accolades.  Bethany wanted love/attention so badly that she married the first man who would*, despite being a very bad fit.  She wanted attention from a man and wanted to look, to her circle, like she was “worthy” of love.  I think these two are keeping up appearances, but negativity comments upset them.  They’re used to being praised and venerated.   I don’t touch the poop, but it doesn’t bother me at all that someone is calling them out.  

* I actually understand this.  People have been brushing aside Bethany’s pain at being overlooked well past her (their brand of Christian) sell by date.  But when you’re abilities to attract a man are tied to you’re entire worth/purpose (and God’s blessing/approval), it is a mind-fuck to be so clearly “unworthy”.  I have some experience of this from being not-hot Fundie-light person in my late teens and early 20s.   And, honestly, the memory of not dating (NOT by choice) through my entire 20s hurts way more than my inability to have kids.  

(I married in my mid 30s, widowed in my early 40s, then remarried a widower this year, 5 years after Mr Womb’s death.  The whole inability to attract someone for over 10 years still haunts.  I loathe Bethany for what they teach, but she has my empathy for the “late” [for their culture] marriage).  

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

@Closed Womb, thank you for that perspective. I can't imagine what you've been through, but I hope you've found happiness. 

I think it certainly is worth criticizing the culture that created these two, and others like them, even if that means stepping back from snark and having empathy for people we see as self-righteous or false teachers. For example, my comment about Bethany being insecure about her husband being younger and shorter wasn't meant as a criticism of him, but of a culture that expects men to always be strong, hyper-masculine leaders, providers, and protectors. It's fucked up that Bethany and Kristen peddle this "purity prosperity gospel" even when they've been disappointed themselves, but it's even more fucked up that it exists in the first place. I've said before that they don't have any original thoughts, and I stand by that. They are responsible for not having done more research on the original context of the scripture and not having empathy for people with different experiences, but not for having those ideas in the first place--it's just what they were taught. 

Bethany and Kristen are fully responsible for all the damage they are doing to young girls, but I don't hold them responsible for their culture's ideology that a woman's ultimate calling is marriage and childbirth, when it has hurt them both; one was single for much longer than she had hoped and one is still infertile. I think it's important we acknowledge the pain that has caused them, and that acknowledgment will further drive home how dangerous their ideology is. I hate what they teach, but I don't think we can effectively argue against people like this unless we treat them as whole human beings, even when that means having compassion and empathy for people we don't like. 

But then again I'm kind of a terrible person and I receive an inordinate amount of joy in mocking those whom I perceive to be simultaneously self-righteous, morally deficient, and factually incorrect. 

[NoKidsAndCounting]

The "girls" have a video up about guarding your heart with social media. Tee Hee! ?

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, NoKidsAndCounting said:

The "girls" have a video up about guarding your heart with social media. Tee Hee! ?

Too bad they didn’t practice a no touch courtship with social media. We would have all been spared their nonsense.

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

Their blog post about dealing with depression and anxiety actually wasn't terrible, mostly because it was written by someone who wasn't either of them. But a commenter asked about how to essentially convince doctors she doesn't have anxiety, to which I responded, because this person probably does need medical help:

(ETA, she clarified in another comment that she meant "physical problems ARE caused by mental problems" in the last sentence, but I forgot to get it in the Screenshot) 

Spoiler

They pulled a Lori and deleted it. Which really seems to be their way of saying that yes, I am less of a Christian for seeking medical help. Everything I said is 100% true, and I was as kind as I could possibly be. A comment advising the commenter to try an "anti-inflammatory diet" (cause medical advice from strangers on the internet is totally safe and a great idea) was left up. I guess it's fine to tell people to see a doctor, but not fine to tell someone to actually listen to your doctors, because other comments advising seeking medical help to other questions have been left up as well (for now). Or, frankly I think that an actual fleshed-out argument against the "pray it away" BS pissed them off a little bit. Hey 30-year-old "girls", guess what? That's what happens when you go to college. You get an education and learn to think for yourself, not just spew your parent's dogma. 

If they had responded telling me why exactly I'm wrong or offensive enough to get deleted (and honestly guys if any of you can see a legitimate reason why my comment was unacceptable please tell me because I'm a little tone-deaf sometimes) I would respect that, but just deleting it is so childish. And I'm salty because I put genuine effort and care into responding to this person. 

Just gonna note that Allison is not my real name, but my real name is very unique and I do not want it connected to their BS in any way. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Sonic the Whoredgehog

[luv2laugh]

On 8/31/2019 at 3:29 PM, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

@The Mother Dust I'm sorry ? Lame backstory, my husband is also a Sonic fan and wants me to come with him to the midnight release of the Sonic movie which comes out next valentine's day. I told him if he didn't make me go, I'd wear a slutty Sonic costume and referred to myself as my username. He was much less amused than I was because I have a terrible sense of humor, but three drinks later I decided to make an account here, and here we are. 

A positively depressing amount of Christian sex advice is for wives who simply don't enjoy it, but at least they have those resources. The other has a pleasant emphasis on mutual pleasure and usually says anything but porn, orgies, and anal is okay. I did some research before my own wedding, but didn't learn much I didn't already know, lol. 

Do fundies really believe anal is a sin??? One told me “the marriage bed is undefined” and that anal was ok because of it.

[louisa05]

@Closed Womb I was a single female working in an evangelical Christian school for most of my 20s. There was a pretty regular feature during lunch in the faculty lounge that I named (much later) "Telling Louisa Why She Isn't Married". Someone started it about twice a week and they would all chip in with theories. It might be brought on by something I was eating or something I said or someone might just get a notion because they hadn't done it for awhile. Some of the reasons I recall: 

-I don't do crafts

-I (allegedly) could not cook or bake (Totally not true, but facts never got in their way)

-I cut my hair above shoulder length

-I like to watch sports

-My parents sent me to Catholic school thus rendering me completely flawed for good evangelical guys

There were plenty more. A certain pair of shoes might do it on one day. Having gone to a movie with a female friend over the weekend might do it. It was always something. And it was horrible and scarring. 

I got married in my late 30s. To a Catholic. I had chin length hair at the time and I still watch sports. He seems unconcerned about the lack of crafting but does brag to people about my cooking and likes taking things I baked to work to treat co-workers who help him out. 

I have felt for Bethany a bit, too. That world is merciless to young women who don't marry on their schedule. I was at a bridal shower for a former student from that school once where the talk of the shower was all about her being "such an old bride" and what a "relief" it was that she was "FINALLY" getting married before she was "too old" for any man to ever consider. She was 25. I was ten years older than her and still single (dating Mr. 05 at the time, though), so that was super comfortable, too. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

51 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

@Closed Womb I was a single female working in an evangelical Christian school for most of my 20s. There was a pretty regular feature during lunch in the faculty lounge that I named (much later) "Telling Louisa Why She Isn't Married". Someone started it about twice a week and they would all chip in with theories. It might be brought on by something I was eating or something I said or someone might just get a notion because they hadn't done it for awhile. Some of the reasons I recall: 

-I don't do crafts

-I (allegedly) could not cook or bake (Totally not true, but facts never got in their way)

-I cut my hair above shoulder length

-I like to watch sports

-My parents sent me to Catholic school thus rendering me completely flawed for good evangelical guys

There were plenty more. A certain pair of shoes might do it on one day. Having gone to a movie with a female friend over the weekend might do it. It was always something. And it was horrible and scarring. 

I got married in my late 30s. To a Catholic. I had chin length hair at the time and I still watch sports. He seems unconcerned about the lack of crafting but does brag to people about my cooking and likes taking things I baked to work to treat co-workers who help him out. 

I have felt for Bethany a bit, too. That world is merciless to young women who don't marry on their schedule. I was at a bridal shower for a former student from that school once where the talk of the shower was all about her being "such an old bride" and what a "relief" it was that she was "FINALLY" getting married before she was "too old" for any man to ever consider. She was 25. I was ten years older than her and still single (dating Mr. 05 at the time, though), so that was super comfortable, too. 

My parents, step parents, grandparents, and siblings all got married between the ages of 18-23. Oh and 5 out of 6 of my aunts and uncles were in that age range as well. And most of my great grandparents. So basically marrying young was the norm in my family. But I refused. I never wanted to marry that young. I got married at 27 and luckily no one in my family was an asshole about it. I wasn’t ready to get married that young. So I didn’t. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[raspberrymint]

My mom was married earlier than me and had kids later than me (by unwanted accident, on her part).

I actually didn't get the usual lectures from church folk or anyone.  I think people read me as tainted and unfit to breed, honestly.  Bad / minimal contact relationship with my mom and being on the autism spectrum, the second which people probably either guess or they assume I'm just a nasty human being.

I got told stories such as the one where someone knew a woman who played piano at a church who was "SO FAT" that no one would marry her and so sad about it, but a widower married her at 50 and they adopted a little boy.  (I was never fat.)

All these stories either ended in adoption / stepchildren or no children.  I believe eugenics is very alive and well in these communities.  Lots of "but why would you want to make people who suffer like you?" questions.  Any suffering is on the hands of people who treated me poorly.  I'm not around any of them anymore.

It makes me wonder about the future for people like Josie Duggar.  I also wonder how I would have fared in an Amish community.  

(I'm 29, newlywed, and pregnant, if you're wondering about specifics.)

Edited September 4, 2019 by raspberrymint
I reproduced on purpose. I was an accident.

[hollyfeller]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

@Closed Womb I was a single female working in an evangelical Christian school for most of my 20s. There was a pretty regular feature during lunch in the faculty lounge that I named (much later) "Telling Louisa Why She Isn't Married". Someone started it about twice a week and they would all chip in with theories. It might be brought on by something I was eating or something I said or someone might just get a notion because they hadn't done it for awhile. Some of the reasons I recall: 

-I don't do crafts

-I (allegedly) could not cook or bake (Totally not true, but facts never got in their way)

-I cut my hair above shoulder length

-I like to watch sports

-My parents sent me to Catholic school thus rendering me completely flawed for good evangelical guys

There were plenty more. A certain pair of shoes might do it on one day. Having gone to a movie with a female friend over the weekend might do it. It was always something. And it was horrible and scarring. 

I got married in my late 30s. To a Catholic. I had chin length hair at the time and I still watch sports. He seems unconcerned about the lack of crafting but does brag to people about my cooking and likes taking things I baked to work to treat co-workers who help him out. 

I have felt for Bethany a bit, too. That world is merciless to young women who don't marry on their schedule. I was at a bridal shower for a former student from that school once where the talk of the shower was all about her being "such an old bride" and what a "relief" it was that she was "FINALLY" getting married before she was "too old" for any man to ever consider. She was 25. I was ten years older than her and still single (dating Mr. 05 at the time, though), so that was super comfortable, too. 

I married my ex husband at age 28 after 6 years of dating.  But he was an adulterer so that didn't last!

I have been single since my divorce 7 years ago.  I tried online dating, but it was horrible.  Most of my friends say that I don't have a man because my standards are high, but I'm sure they have other theories that they keep to themselves!  They probably think I should be putting myself "out there," but that is super unappealing.  The truth is that I'm simply not looking for anyone right now.  It is possible to be single AND happy!

[JermajestyDuggar]

29 minutes ago, hollyfeller said:

I married my ex husband at age 28 after 6 years of dating.  But he was an adulterer so that didn't last!

I have been single since my divorce 7 years ago.  I tried online dating, but it was horrible.  Most of my friends say that I don't have a man because my standards are high, but I'm sure they have other theories that they keep to themselves!  They probably think I should be putting myself "out there," but that is super unappealing.  The truth is that I'm simply not looking for anyone right now.  It is possible to be single AND happy!

I’m positive I will never marry again. If my husband and I somehow don’t work out, I am done with marriage. Maybe I would date a little bit as I’ve gotten older, I realized I love my alone time. Thankfully my husband respects that. But what if I remarried and I realized later that he is a clinger? That would be hell for me. I don’t even like clingy pets, lol.