Girl Defined

[quiversR4hunting]

22 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Bethany got married last year to a man who “prayed the gay away”

 

oh yeah. I don't see how that will cause any issues in their marriage or future.  

[CaseyGrace]

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

It's like they think that just because they think "sinners" like Muslims, gays, and prostitutes don't deserve love, God does too. 

@quiversR4hunting, you're spot-on. her blog posts make it pretty clear that she is unsatisfied if you read between the lines. Dave seems like a nice enough guy so I'm sure he's tried, but it just doesn't come naturally to some guys... Especially  those who are not naturally attracted to vaginas. She's also written about how marriage won't make you happy, only Jesus can satisfy you, and has pretty strongly implied she misses being single. She tries really hard to be positive and not speak poorly of her husband, but she honestly seems really disappointed. I would feel bad for her if she wasn't so dead-set on getting young girls to believe the same bullshit that put her in this position. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

 

oh yeah. I don't see how that will cause any issues in their marriage or future.  

Oh yeah I give them four years before they announce their separation. And it will be him that leaves. Bethany will try her hardest to keep him in the marriage but he will get sick of it all and leave.

Edited August 30, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[quiversR4hunting]

13 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh yeah I give them four years before they announce their separation. And it will be him that leaves. Bethany will try her hardest to keep him in the marriage but he will get sick of it all and leave.

She is the one pregnant, right? I would agree. If he really wants kids, I think he will try really hard for a few years but I agree he will be the one to leave. Mr. Atheist asked a question on one of the videos about GD and GiG - "which sister do you think will become atheist?" I don't know if they will go atheist but I bet Bethany will be the one to back out of her fundie beliefs after the marriage goes to hell in an handbasket. 

[unsafetydancer]

I found these two watching Mr Atheist too!

They give me the heebie-jeebies, especially with the one of them (which one???) that married an "ex-gay" man. She seems like she has a lot of pent up rage somewhere. I don't think it's healthy to even try and be a "godly" woman as they define it. There's a lot of stuffing of feelings and forcing smiles and that sort of stuff messes you up for a long time. I hope they can break free, find themselves and undo some of the harm they have done by telling young girls to be like them. I also hope the one struggling with fertility issues eventually gets that sorted out.

Fundie culture has a lot to answer to women for

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

She is the one pregnant, right? I would agree. If he really wants kids, I think he will try really hard for a few years but I agree he will be the one to leave. Mr. Atheist asked a question on one of the videos about GD and GiG - "which sister do you think will become atheist?" I don't know if they will go atheist but I bet Bethany will be the one to back out of her fundie beliefs after the marriage goes to hell in an handbasket. 

I agree. I think they may only have this one baby. After he is born, it will stress their marriage like young kids stress many couples. But they won’t deal with it well and he will eventually leave. Then Bethany will be done with all the GD stuff. If she does lose her faith, she will be quiet about it. I doubt we will ever know.

Edited August 30, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[Giraffe]

I only watch them via Mr Atheist because I refuse to give them views. I mean, plus...it’s Mr Atheist and I could watch him watch paint dry, so yeah, there’s that, too.  

[closetcagebaby]

Is there any actual evidence that Dav went through conversion therapy? I’m pretty sure that’s still just a (likely true, imo) rumor. 

[seraaa]

1 hour ago, unsafetydancer said:

I found these two watching Mr Atheist too!

They give me the heebie-jeebies, especially with the one of them (which one???) that married an "ex-gay" man. She seems like she has a lot of pent up rage somewhere. I don't think it's healthy to even try and be a "godly" woman as they define it. There's a lot of stuffing of feelings and forcing smiles and that sort of stuff messes you up for a long time. I hope they can break free, find themselves and undo some of the harm they have done by telling young girls to be like them. I also hope the one struggling with fertility issues eventually gets that sorted out.

Fundie culture has a lot to answer to women for

It's Bethany!

This bolded is, to be fair, speculation based on rumour and stereotype. As someone who has followed them for  while, it kind of feels like people went, (in addition to the unverified internet(?) (YouTube?) comments), oh, he's kind of thoughtful and plays music, so let's run with the theory he's actually gay. The approach towards him about this in some places (not here) feels off to me. 

IDK, just personally I am not comfortable with leaning so hard on stereotypes such as those and nothing else, especially given the stigma and complications in that community surrounding the issue.  

13 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

Is there any actual evidence that Dav went through conversion therapy? I’m pretty sure that’s still just a (likely true, imo) rumor. 

All rumour as far as anyone knows, I believe. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by seraaa

[JermajestyDuggar]

Hasn’t Dav said he’s dealt with same sex attraction? I thought that was admitted. 

[apandaaries]

I don’t know if Dave (I have some issues with how he spells his name) has discussed same sex attraction, but I’m not an expert on the videos. They’re so irritating (both the videos and the “girls”).

I’ll readily confess to being someone who has questions about Dave’s orientation. It has nothing to do with playing an instrument nor being “thoughtful” — to me, he seems on par with youngster my 15 year old hangs out with. I don’t get a mature vibe from either Bethany or Dave. And I’ve known plenty of male musicians who are VERY into women, so I don’t think it’s that he strums a guitar that pings my gaydar.

During the pregnancy announcement, he wiped his wife’s kiss off. Both seem incredibly awkward around each other — friendly, but not sexually attracted, IMO. I don’t see sexual chemistry between them. And to me, friend of many a gay man, he just reads as not attracted to women. 

It’s not their age difference — my grandparents were almost seven years apart (she was older, too), but their love and mutual caring was evident from afar. It’s not his musical inclinations, which can cover a whole rainbow of sexuality. It’s definitely not finding him “thoughtful,” though I haven’t read all the comments on their videos. 

It’s that their chemistry is off and he doesn’t seem interested In her the way I’d expect from a husband. It reminds me of a deep friendship I had (and still have) in early college. My friend wasn’t yet out of the closet and we were very close. Many people assumed a romantic relationship, but it was never that. We laughed and had adventures together, but never sex, because something vital about that particular connection was lacking. Nevertheless, my grandma put a photo of us up in her living room with other grandkids and couples, reading more into it than there was, because she wanted to see me happily paired off. Maybe B’s relatives are engaging in the same kind of magical thinking as my late grandma. Idk. ?‍♀️

All this to say, he doesn’t always (or even usually) appear straight to many eyes or guts. I did read on reddit somewhere that someone recognized him from conversion camp (obviously, taken with many grains of salt, as the person writing that was likely an ax murderer, since I’m not). But the reason the rumor sticks is because there are some curious flags about his behavior. 

Of course, I really don’t know. But I’ve had friends whose parents divorced after years and children because the father really had to live his truth, which was that he wasn’t attracted to women and cheating on his wife didn’t make life better. Elizabeth Smart’s dad just came out and announced his upcoming divorce. Sometimes it takes people a really long time, like decades, to decide to try to be okay with who they really are. And Dave strikes me as someone who is acting. YMMV, and that’s fine.

On a larger scale, the odds of a homosexual boy increase with the number of boys one has.

Spoiler

My friend was the youngest of four boys raised very catholic, including catholic schools. He’d always had close relationships with women/teen girls (as was age-appropriate for whatever time), but something was different. His brothers recognized it. His mother immediately accepted him when he came out, likely because she had some idea beforehand. His dad came around rather quickly, loving family more than religion and again, noticing something had always been a bit different with the youngest. 

There are horrible stereotypes and assumptions within their fundamentalist religion about being gay. But honestly, that’s a problem with their churches, not with rainbow folks. I do wonder about a number of the mega families we follow and the future for the sons whose sexuality may not fall precisely into whatever their church has deemed “God-ordained.” That absolutely sucks, but it’s not our fault, nor the fault of FJ, nor the redditors who look pretty carefully for interesting hidden signs. The problems for LGBTQIA+ folks are created by those particular churches, not their natural inclinations. 

Gotten a bit rambly here, but I did want to point out that often we see the smoke before the fire. I don’t sleep with Dave, so my knowledge is limited. But given a number of life experiences and interactions with non-hetero folks, I just don’t see Dave as the super-straight lusty af husband of Bethany, which is what I’d typically expect of newlyweds, even those who attempt to temper their passion with biblical verses. I don’t get the same impression from Other Blonde Girl’s husband, for whatever that’s worth. 

It’s also disturbing that this marriage is presented as Bethany’s reward for patiently (cough) waiting. That and her pregnancy make for a rather unbearable Bethany, especially since this marriage seems to be the fulfillment of promises made by their strange  interpretations of the Bible. 

For a number of us, this marriage seems disingenuous at the least. They are married adults repeatedly choosing the youtube spotlights, so people commenting about what they see should be expected. I’m not trying to be mean and I do hope he’s being true to himself, but I just don’t see that. And I don’t think it’s evil to mention it, either. Girl Defined seems to basically be one small step up from the Botkinettes, whom no one expects to marry anytime soon. But those same ideas of waiting at home, without education or work experience, Reading only the Bible, serving the family, etc., certainly don’t work out for a number of women. And to me it seems fair to point that out and discuss the outcomes of those who choose to advertise them: Bethany waited and waited, and now she has her perfect man. If some in the audience wonder about his clay feet, is that truly a problem? If he’s not, no problem. If he is, then maybe he should have reconsidered the path he took and the time he spends extolling said path.

Either way, this seems like the kind of open cry for attention that Sierra and other pursue. People are speculating about Sierra’s mental health (and I agree, it’s concerning) based on what she’s shown us. I see concern and speculation about the married, adult Dave as being on the same page. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by apandaaries
Autocorrecto sucks for both words and verb tenses.

[singsingsing]

Girl Defined seems like an absolute goldmine of snark, and yet I can't bring myself to watch any of it because the one sister creeps me out so much. She's 30 years old but in every picture I've seen of her, she's dressed like a giant toddler. Apparently it's not a joke. That's just how she chooses to style herself. Exactly like a 2-year-old on a play date. WHY? It's like something out of a horror movie! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Girl Defined seems like an absolute goldmine of snark, and yet I can't bring myself to watch any of it because the one sister creeps me out so much. She's 30 years old but in every picture I've seen of her, she's dressed like a giant toddler. Apparently it's not a joke. That's just how she chooses to style herself. Exactly like a 2-year-old on a play date. WHY? It's like something out of a horror movie! 

That’s why I prefer to watch all the Mr Atheist videos covering them. I can’t watch one of their entire videos. It’s too cringey and annoying.

[seraaa]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Hasn’t Dav said he’s dealt with same sex attraction? I thought that was admitted. 

He has not, as far as I'm aware. At least never explicitly with reference to himself. On the one hand, I do kind of understand why people are making this particular speculation, but it just personally just doesn't sit well - I suppose I'm just saying my instinct is to proceed with caution 

Edited August 31, 2019 by seraaa

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, seraaa said:

He has not, as far as I'm aware. At least never explicitly with reference to himself. On the one hand, I do kind of understand why people are making this particular speculation, but it just personally just doesn't sit well - I suppose I'm just saying my instinct is to proceed with caution 

Ok I thought he must have said at some point he was gay. I didn’t realize he’s never said that. I won’t assume he’s gay anymore then. I just go by what people say about their sexuality. 

[seraaa]

10 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Either way, this seems like the kind of open cry for attention that Sierra and other pursue. People are speculating about Sierra’s mental health (and I agree, it’s concerning) based on what she’s shown us. I see concern and speculation about the married, adult Dave as being on the same page. 

Fair!

It's a tricky area, because they do choose to put their lives online and of course we will all inevitably form opinions. I suppose I'm just wary as it can be a sensitive topic. It's a balancing act as I believe sometimes speculation when people are not ready to address things can sometimes be unhelpful 

21 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Ok I thought he must have said at some point he was gay. I didn’t realize he’s never said that. I won’t assume he’s gay anymore then. I just go by what people say about their sexuality. 

Girl Defined Ministries have  discussed the topic, but nobody associated with them has from a first-person perspective, as far as I'm aware!

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by seraaa

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, seraaa said:

Fair!

It's a tricky area, because they do choose to put their lives online and of course we will all inevitably form opinions. I suppose I'm just wary as it can be a sensitive topic. It's a balancing act as I believe sometimes speculation when people are not ready to address things can sometimes be unhelpful 

Girl Defined Ministries have  discussed the topic, but nobody associated with them has from a first-person perspective, as far as I'm aware!

 

Thanks. I think they have no chemistry though. So that could likely end in divorce too. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I always assumed they had zero chemistry because he as “ex-gay” like Greg. But now that I know he has never said he has same sex attraction, I’m just going to assume these two got married because of all the pressure fundieland put on a couple when it comes to marriage. They are past the average age of marriage and Bethany has always seemed desperate to marry. I think these two felt the pressure and Bethany just said yes to the first person to ask her to get married. Even in this marriage of two straight people, I don’t see it ending well. 

[closetcagebaby]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I always assumed they had zero chemistry because he as “ex-gay” like Greg. But now that I know he has never said he has same sex attraction, I’m just going to assume these two got married because of all the pressure fundieland put on a couple when it comes to marriage. They are past the average age of marriage and Bethany has always seemed desperate to marry. I think these two felt the pressure and Bethany just said yes to the first person to ask her to get married. Even in this marriage of two straight people, I don’t see it ending well. 

Bethany is older, I think 30, but Dav is only 23-24 iirc. 

There are rumors of a deleted video where they talk about same sex attraction/conversion therapy but I have seen zero hard evidence that either of them have said anything about it in regards to Dav. 

ETA:

I don’t have a personal issue with speculation about Dav in particular so please don’t take this as being hand slappy or anything. I just think it’s important to be factually accurate!

Edited August 31, 2019 by closetcagebaby
More thoughts

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, closetcagebaby said:

Bethany is older, I think 30, but Dav is only 23-24 iirc. 

There are rumors of a deleted video where they talk about same sex attraction/conversion therapy but I have seen zero hard evidence that either of them have said anything about it in regards to Dav. 

ETA:

I don’t have a personal issue with speculation about Dav in particular so please don’t take this as being hand slappy or anything. I just think it’s important to be factually accurate!

You know now that I’m thinking about it, I may have been thinking of Nate Axmann. I’m positive I read his blog post about his same sex attraction. He’s now married to Patience Pennington and expecting a baby. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar
Edited his confusing name! :-p

[The Mother Dust]

22 hours ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

It's like they think that just because they think "sinners" like Muslims, gays, and prostitutes don't deserve love, God does too. 

@quiversR4hunting, you're spot-on. her blog posts make it pretty clear that she is unsatisfied if you read between the lines. Dave seems like a nice enough guy so I'm sure he's tried, but it just doesn't come naturally to some guys... Especially  those who are not naturally attracted to vaginas. She's also written about how marriage won't make you happy, only Jesus can satisfy you, and has pretty strongly implied she misses being single. She tries really hard to be positive and not speak poorly of her husband, but she honestly seems really disappointed. I would feel bad for her if she wasn't so dead-set on getting young girls to believe the same bullshit that put her in this position. 

I feel so bad for the women who marry these guys who are in the closet (not bi).  Assuming the women want to have a sexually active marriage, they are basically setting themselves up for the male version of "lie back and think of England."  For those of us who are attracted to men, we know how flattering and satisfying it can be to know your man genuinely wants you, and thinks you are attractive. I can't imagine a marriage where my partner just goes through the motions and dosen't display any signs of sexual attraction to me other than when he does his best to get it up for the actual deed. Pardon the crassness.  Do these sheltered women think that that's what sex is? Did Elizabeth Smarts mom have a lifetime of bad sex, and just not knowing any better?  Omg. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

37 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You know now that I’m thinking about it, I may have been thinking of Nate Jackman. I’m positive I read his blog post about his same sex attraction. He’s now married to Patience Pennington and expecting a baby. 

The guy married to Patience Pennington is Nathan Axmann.

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

The guy married to Patience Pennington is Nathan Axmann.

Argh I always do that! He made his user name natejackmann so I always think of him by that name. 

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

11 minutes ago, The Mother Dust said:

Do these sheltered women think that that's what sex is?

Only once they've had it. Before the wedding, it's this magical, holy, mind-blowing thing that will change you forever. Afterwards, I think a lot of them either resign themselves to thinking that sex just isn't that great, or worse, that something is wrong with them. But honestly, and I hope this isn't too BEC of me, Bethy probably doesn't know what it's actually like to have someone be passionately attracted to her. 

Before the internet and sex getting less taboo, I'm sure a lot of women (and men) didn't know any better but I'm guessing even the fundies do their research these days. There's quite a few sites for "Christian" sex advice, some of  out there which are actually kind of helpful and not that different from secular sex advice except for the whole "only if you're married" thing.