Michael and Brandon Keilen- Part 2

[melon]

My friends daughter in law struggles with infertility.I never had this,but as an empath,I feel for her. She (the DIL) and her husband have been married about 8 years. She had one pregnancy,then miscarried. This family is LDS,miantsream....not FLDS...so people ask about babies,which is rude,in my opinion. They are planning IVF next. Here in South Carolina,IVF is outrageously expensive.They are talking about going to Utah,they have lots of family there,but to hopefully continue with their plans for IVF,and a baby.

[twinmama]

1 hour ago, melon said:

Here in South Carolina,IVF is outrageously expensive.They are talking about going to Utah,they have lots of family there,but to hopefully continue with their plans for IVF,and a baby.

IVF is outrageously expensive everywhere in the US. Some states have laws requiring insurance to cover it, but most do not. Our IVF cycle in NY cost $8,500 for the procedure, and around $4,000 for the drugs. Then there were doctors visits and blood work everyday for at least a week, so that was another $150 or so a day. I was just god damn glad we got our twins on the first shot because I don't know how we would have afforded a second try!!!

Plus there's the fact that IVF is not usually anyone's first try. We'd already spent thousands on 4 failed IUIs and so many doctor's visits I can't count.

[melon]

Maybe IVF is covered by insurance in Utah and not in South Carolina,I don't know ,myself.  I know she said they might move to Utah and have IVF there,that it is more expensive here,than in Utah,

[Casserole]

14 hours ago, twinmama said:

I still have my baby blanket and it may sleep on my bed with me. I am thinking 40 might be a good age to ditch it? 

38, husband, two kids, baby blanket on my bed at night lol I don't like take it to do errands or out during the day at all but yeah I love it and see no reason to give it up. There was just one eye rolling moment from my husband when I told him about it, he hasn't given a shit since.

 

Mine might be folded inside of my pillowcase... 

[SuhrEnity]

23 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It looks like it was the wedding of Andrea Warren. Who was a BM in Alyssa's wedding. I wonder if Erin also went to this wedding instead of Joy's. 

 

Wow. Michael really got them to make that collar go as high up as possible. Alyssas is at a more normal height

[VelociRapture]

20 hours ago, twinmama said:

Yes. We only tried for 8 months, but had to do IUI (4 failed ones) and finally IVF and it was still hard. No where near people who do multiple IVFs and fail, or go through 10 years of trying, but trying to get pregnant and failing sucks. Two years of trying would be horrible. Each cycle you fail at hurts.

Reminds me of prematurity and NICU. Any time in the NICU is awful, yes if you are there a week it's not as bad as 10 weeks or 100 days, etc., but it's not a "who has it worse" competition! Trying to get pregnant and failing sucks, trying for 5 months sucks, trying for a year or two sucks, trying for 10 years sucks. 

I struggle with this a lot. I did not have an easy time recovering emotionally from my early miscarriage. I had an even worse time handling my daughter's weeklong NICU stay - I experienced full blown panic attacks for the first time. I feel ridiculously stupid sometimes thinking about it because other families go through much worse. So it's really nice to see another woman who has experienced worse things say it's valid to feel how you feel.  

[Greendoor]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:55 PM, melon said:

I was talking to one of my sons about M+B and how they still have not had a baby,and soon it will be their 2nd wedding anniversary.

My son said," Well,how do they know it's her fault?Maybe it's his".

Is it 40% for male infertility?

I am pretty sure it's about 98% women's issues.  Male sexual system is very simple in comparison.  

[Coconut Flan]

5 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

I am pretty sure it's about 98% women's issues.  Male sexual system is very simple in comparison.  

  You are joking, right? 

[Greendoor]

I will try to find it for you.  I was surprised myself.  Thought with all the  hot tubing and estrogen in food now-a-days it would have been about 30%.  Give me a bit.   My bad; this is more up-to-date.

According to The Mayo Clinic, USA:

About 20% of cases of infertility are due to a problem in the man.

About 40% to 50% of cases of infertility are due to a problem in the woman.

About 30% to 40% of cases of infertility are due to problems in both the man and the woman.

My complete sympathy will all who struggle.  I was lucky to have my son; I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to try again.  I hope all of you get a baby, you deserve to.

[Mela99]

Studies indicate that a minimum of 30% of infertility is related to male factor problems such as structural abnormalities, sperm production disorders, ejaculatory disturbances and immunologic disorders. 

Source: RESOLVE and the lovely trio of Reproductive Endocrinologists with a collective 30 years worth of experience who have been treating me for infertility

[klabourdeth]

My friends daughter in law struggles with infertility.I never had this,but as an empath,I feel for her. She (the DIL) and her husband have been married about 8 years. She had one pregnancy,then miscarried. This family is LDS,miantsream....not FLDS...so people ask about babies,which is rude,in my opinion. They are planning IVF next. Here in South Carolina,IVF is outrageously expensive.They are talking about going to Utah,they have lots of family there,but to hopefully continue with their plans for IVF,and a baby.

It might also be cheaper to look at going to India for IVF. Based on research I had to do for a class in college going to India for most infertility care ended up being the best option cost wise.

[Melissa1977]

On 5/22/2017 at 1:07 PM, amendgitan said:

All of what? The poor folks have been married less than two years and we are already acting as if they've been "struggling" with infertility for a decade? 

I'm happy for Micheal that she gets to enjoy some child-free years with her husband. They may not understand but a few years to bond as a couple and get to know each other well, before beginning the intense pressure and drudgery of spitting out blessing after blessing, well that's the real blessing. Their marriage will likely be tighter and stronger as a result of the time alone.

If you are 20 something and trying to get pregnant, yes 2 years is a lot of time. 1 year is considered normal but after this, a doctor appointment for both partners is recommended. Of course it doesn't mean they have a problem, but they may have and the sooner they fix it, the sooner the baby is coming.

I understand your point about child-free time, but when a couple's only goal is getting pregnant, this child-free time is not a blessing but a nightmare. Infertility can easily lead a couple to stress and arguments. Maybe Michael and Brandon are mature enough to overcome this or they rely in God's will, but I'm sure they are not living a completely child-free honeymoon. Even Michael's little bussiness is about baby stuff. I don't know Michael but I would be very sad sewing that baby blankets and not having my own kid. It's like put a finger on the wound.

[twinmama]

18 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I struggle with this a lot. I did not have an easy time recovering emotionally from my early miscarriage. I had an even worse time handling my daughter's weeklong NICU stay - I experienced full blown panic attacks for the first time. I feel ridiculously stupid sometimes thinking about it because other families go through much worse. So it's really nice to see another woman who has experienced worse things say it's valid to feel how you feel.  

 I could say the same thing. We did 9 weeks in the NICU, but I know people who have done more, I know people who didn't end up taking their NICU baby home. So it's just not worth it to compare.

5 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I understand your point about child-free time, but when a couple's only goal is getting pregnant, this child-free time is not a blessing but a nightmare.

Ha, this reminds me of when my boys were in the NICU and everyone was all "ohhh use this time to get a lot of extra sleep because you'll be exhausted when they come home!" like my children are in the hospital. If your 4 year old was in the hospital would you be at home getting a good night of sleep because they're someone else's problem right now???? My kids were no less my kids because they hadn't been home yet.

[VelociRapture]

I'm of the opinion that people who haven't struggled with infertility - myself included - shouldn't be throwing around statistics without doing extensive research first. Even people who have struggled previously should do some basic research since information regarding fertility may have changed. And that anyone commenting on any couple's journey to parenthood should remember to show some basic compassion for what they may be feeling.

I don't care how long you've struggled to conceive or what medical issues you may have. If you're hoping to become a parent and you're dealing with infertility of any kind, you have my deepest sympathy.

[twinmama]

Plus, statistics don't really matter because every situation is completely different. Statistics could say 99% of fertility issues are with women and that doesn't mean that one particular couple doesn't have male infertility! Odds are just odds.

I don't want more kids born into this lifestyle, but I won't go so far as to wish infertility on someone. Especially a couple who doesn't have any kids and hasn't proven they're going to be terrible parents. Everyone deserves a chance. Now when you have 5 kids and are ignoring them or beating them into submission, then I may wish a bit of secondary infertility on you.

[Lulu22du]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I'm of the opinion that people who haven't struggled with infertility - myself included - shouldn't be throwing around statistics without doing extensive research first. Even people who have struggled previously should do some basic research since information regarding fertility may have changed. And that anyone commenting on any couple's journey to parenthood should remember to show some basic compassion for what they may be feeling.
I don't care how long you've struggled to conceive or what medical issues you may have. If you're hoping to become a parent and you're dealing with infertility of any kind, you have my deepest sympathy.

Exactly! None of us really know what's going on. I feel so bad for Michael. I hope that she gets to have a baby one day. She will be the most amazing mom. And Brandon will be a great dad. Yes I know some of their believes aren't the greatest but I can just tell they have a great love for children.

[Still have a free arm]

My mind likes to pretend that they use BC of some sort, because they want 2 or so years alone. The backlash from family would be a lot to take so they lie.

[Mrs.Right]

On 5/29/2017 at 8:33 AM, melon said:

Maybe IVF is covered by insurance in Utah and not in South Carolina,I don't know ,myself.  I know she said they might move to Utah and have IVF there,that it is more expensive here,than in Utah,

I have insurance from a top tech company in UT and IVF isn't covered in our plan. I highly doubt it would be with any other company. Maybe they'll live with family and save money that way to be able to afford IVF. 

[Coconut Flan]

I've seen IVF covered up to a certain dollar value or up to 50% per treatment depending on the various plans.  I've also seen zero coverage except for testing or coverage for meds only. 

[ladybug15]

It really depends. My insurance covered $10,000 for ivf, that covered the procedures only. The medication was a separate fund with no limits. We also had free iui with just copay for the cycle. So we are very fortunate. IT took us about 6 iui, 1 ivf with no transfer, and 3 transfers, we miscarried the first two pregnancies. 

My husband swears that you are successful after you run out of the money on the insurance, or you are saying its the last one. IT happened to about 80% of couples we know that use ART.

To the poster who suggested India, the cost would be similar. You have to consider you have to travel to foreign country - so there is a cost for plane tickets, accommodations for almost a month, and most time loss wages as you are taking unpaid time off. Then if something goes wrong you have to have a support system locally.

One of the things that the infertility journey taught me is that you have to fight for yourself and demand things from the doctors, and not follow what they say without questioning like meek sheep.

On 5/30/2017 at 8:10 AM, twinmama said:

Ha, this reminds me of when my boys were in the NICU and everyone was all "ohhh use this time to get a lot of extra sleep because you'll be exhausted when they come home!" like my children are in the hospital. If your 4 year old was in the hospital would you be at home getting a good night of sleep because they're someone else's problem right now???? My kids were no less my kids because they hadn't been home yet.

This. We did 10 days with my boys. In addition, people were offended that I did not respond immediately to emails/text nor notified them about birth. I spend 18 hours in recovery after my csection. I had blood transfusion, my blood pressure was skyrocketing so I was dosed with magnesium and antibiotics, and I haven't seen my boys who were at NICU, and I am suppose to be able to let you know immediately what is happening and you are only a coworker?

[twinmama]

5 hours ago, ladybug15 said:

In addition, people were offended that I did not respond immediately to emails/text nor notified them about birth.

Ha, we had the opposite, I started a blog about our prematurity situation to help me deal with it. It was only open to our friends and family we invited, but it really showed me that everyone deals with that stuff the way they need to. I wanted to write everything I was thinking and feeling, some people want or need to be stoic and power through. It's a horrible situation, whatever you need to do to get through is okay.

[Hisey]

On 5/21/2017 at 9:35 PM, just_ordinary said:

Why would an adopted child feel bad when his/her parents surprisingly conceive? I'm sure no one is stupid enough to draw the conclusion: I don't get pregnant- let's adopt than it might happen.

No. You misunderstand me completely. An adopted child would probably be hurt by conversations like this one:

"Oh, you adopted! Your daughter is beautiful. Do you know, very often if you adopt it'll cause you to relax and THEN you'll get pregnant. Maybe that will happen to you. That happened to my sister. She thought she was infertile and had to adopt. A year after she adopted, she got pregnant!"

You don't see the message here?. . . you are second best. . . you are only in this family because we couldn't get pregnant. . . perhaps your adoption will lead to a "real" son or daughter. . . 

On 5/29/2017 at 3:33 PM, Greendoor said:

I am pretty sure it's about 98% women's issues.  Male sexual system is very simple in comparison.  

This is a very ignorant comment. I know a lot about male infertility and you are completely wrong. It's like 40 percent male, 40 percent female, 10 % unknown cause.

On 5/22/2017 at 10:58 AM, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I'm adopted and my much younger sibling is not. Aside from some jealousy I felt over the fact that sibling looks SO much like my parents and I don't, it never bothered me. I didn't feel like I was any less their child or less loved or whatnot. I know it's different for everyone though. And sometimes how we think we'd feel is different than reality. 

Jeez, I was not saying an adopted kid feels badly about a biological birth sibling. I would never make such a blanket statement, and in fact was talking about a completely different thing.

Do adopted kids feel badly when there's a birth sib? I imagine it depends on the kid, on the day, on the parents and how they act, on a whole bunch of things. 

[meee]

On 5/30/2017 at 1:33 AM, Greendoor said:

I am pretty sure it's about 98% women's issues.  Male sexual system is very simple in comparison.  

NO NO NO NO NO. You have no idea what you are talking about. It's literally just about half and half. As for the male system being simple, male fertility issues that I've heard of include low sperm count, low motility, low morphology, unexplained hormone issues leading to low count (low testosterone and the like), varicoceles, blockages (as in CF), chromosome issues (Klinefelter's and microdeletions and such), and Sertoli-cell only. These are all WAY more than two percent of fertility issues.

[VelociRapture]

@Hisey I agree completely. I believe @JemimaPuddle-Duckdoes as well. She made it clear in the portion you quoted that she was only speaking for herself and that other people may have other experiences and emotions than she does. Was there a different portion or quote you were referring to?

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Thank you @VelociRapture

@Hisey My post was to offer a different/additional perspective to mstee's post that is directly before mine.