Counting On- Part 10: Counting out in Central America!

[2manyKidzzz]

The USA is great. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

And, the joke is that "we are the world". Descended from everywhere.  A huuuuge country, ha ha. 

Human nature is just not always that lovely. Open minded, narrow minded, liberal, conservative, in between. There is opportunity here. 

And so it goes. 

[sophie10130]

Yeah, I live in a pretty progressive part of Washington, which is much more progressive than my former home, the good ol southern Illinois.

And I frequently see the same huge truck that has been painted with a giant TRUMP decal on both sides with 4 American flags waving and it also pulls a trailer with more trump signs and whatnot.

If I believed in the personal right to arm yourself with a gun I would shoot out all of his tires and then shoot through that stupid Trump decal, but alas, I don't think civilians should be able to carry guns and I also don't think cops should either.

What a crying shame.

[Ungodly Grandma]

3 hours ago, violynn said:

Gee, thanks for not stereotyping *too* much there, Ungodly Grandma!

 

3 hours ago, violynn said:

Gee, thanks for not stereotyping *too* much there, Ungodly Grandma!

Sorry, but I did say it was the stereotype.

[anotherone]

20 hours ago, Miggy said:

I live in Australia

I was brought up on the idea that all Americans were very loud, very patriotic (with the extension that patriotic people tend to be racist), extremely religious (although not fundamentalist just that church was a huge part of life not an optional extra like here), gun mad and poorly educated. My friends and I all knew "if you hear the accent and they're nice or smart, they're Canandian. If they're nasty or dumb, they're American.

Life experience has taught me there are a lot of good people in the US. I know you aren't all Sarah Palin. (Please know I am not Steve Irwin nor is anyone I know. We call that sort of person a bogan which is the equivalent of redneck.)

I know a lot of people who still believe what I learned as a child. The Duggars really feed that image. So do the Bates, Honey Boo Boo, Swamp People, Kardashians and pretty much all reality tv families. Really though, it's leaders like Trump, Palin and Bush that feed that image.

I don't think it's just you either.  I and my friends all feel that way about a lot of Americans, and we actually are American   

I think though that the loudmouth rude American stereotype is based on just a small percentage of the population.  Unfortunately they're the loudest and probably tend to gravitate to, and are successful at, fields that have an audience like TV, politics, etc.   So it becomes the stereotype even though it's a small number of actual people.

[anotherone]

7 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

-USA fundies are so much about(mainstream) politics and power, not about being a religious fringe group with maybe a small political presence.

- USA fundies are so outspoken, so public and seeking media attention, whereas fundies in other places often keep to themselves and are kind of private

- USA fundies and guns... What can I say. Before I met them, I thought any Christian would rather dance in a gay club than sell or own let alone use a murder weapon.

- Black and white! My fundie friend was convinced if Obama got elected, it would mean the end of the USA. But it seems you're still around.

Or why doctors are evil and I shouldn't immunise my kid.

 

These are all relatively new to religious circles.  Some decades ago it was just about God and religion and whatever socially conservative things they did.  Somewhere around the Bush era I believe, they started encouraging conservative religious groups to have a say in politics.  Religious fundamentalism linked up with Republicans and they took on, for example, the family values theme, so I think that's why fundies and guns got related and probably why your fundie friend had such a reaction to Obama.  If you go back more than 50+ years, many Republicans had a different mindset.

 

[sillysally314]

On 6/22/2016 at 3:07 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

but really he was getting drummed out and being a homophobic preacher who hangs out with DJ Flonase 

oh my god, i snorted.

DJ Flonase.

thank you. that name made my day.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, sillysally314 said:

oh my god, i snorted.

DJ Flonase.

thank you. that name made my day.

I only regret that I came up with that one before I came up with Nas(al congestion).

[wikinggirl]

Just thought of another thing: fundies and modesty. I haven't worn pants in over ten years, but that has nothing to do with God. I just don't like pants! Reading about Erika and other fundies talking about what a transition it was and how you can do it.... It's not that hard. It's actually a lot easier to just wear dresses. A dress and a cardigan (and tons of more clothes here in the winter...) and you're done! 

[Miggy]

I just want to add to my comments of yesterday, my best friend moved to New Hampshire. It is beautiful! The country is beautiful. The people are beautiful. If I moved to the US, that's where I'd be heading. 

Interesting the comments about football. That's never been part of the American story for us. You play football (the weird one with helmets), we play football (and squabble about which of the four codes is more important) but Kiwis ... Wow ... they are a country who live and breathe football. (As I'm married to one it may be appropriate to shout something positive about the All Blacks here so I don't upset the relatives.)

[Bad Wolf]

We were in England during rugby. Hadn't a clue what was going on, but the All Blacks were pretty impressive.

[Miggy]

30 minutes ago, wikinggirl said:

Just thought of another thing: fundies and modesty. I haven't worn pants in over ten years, but that has nothing to do with God. I just don't like pants! Reading about Erika and other fundies talking about what a transition it was and how you can do it.... It's not that hard. It's actually a lot easier to just wear dresses. A dress and a cardigan (and tons of more clothes here in the winter...) and you're done! 

I also don't wear pants. All my skirts are ankle length. All my tops have long sleeves. I don't remember a transition. I just stopped buying clothes that weren't comfortable.

And I don't think a single item I own would pass the fundies modesty test!  

Actually, I know they don't. My fundy relatives tell me that goths are devil worshippers  and if I wear goth clothing, I am leading other people into sin by showing them that devil worship is ok. 

[karen77]

On 6/27/2016 at 10:52 AM, sophie10130 said:

Yeah, I live in a pretty progressive part of Washington, which is much more progressive than my former home, the good ol southern Illinois.

And I frequently see the same huge truck that has been painted with a giant TRUMP decal on both sides with 4 American flags waving and it also pulls a trailer with more trump signs and whatnot.

If I believed in the personal right to arm yourself with a gun I would shoot out all of his tires and then shoot through that stupid Trump decal, but alas, I don't think civilians should be able to carry guns and I also don't think cops should either.

What a crying shame.

Must be near me!!

[Italiangirl]

there is any news on when S2 of counting suppose to start?

[Chicken bones]

On 6/26/2016 at 5:53 PM, Miggy said:

I live in Australia

I was brought up on the idea that all Americans were very loud, very patriotic (with the extension that patriotic people tend to be racist), extremely religious (although not fundamentalist just that church was a huge part of life not an optional extra like here), gun mad and poorly educated. My friends and I all knew "if you hear the accent and they're nice or smart, they're Canandian. If they're nasty or dumb, they're American.

Life experience has taught me there are a lot of good people in the US. I know you aren't all Sarah Palin. (Please know I am not Steve Irwin nor is anyone I know. We call that sort of person a bogan which is the equivalent of redneck.)

I know a lot of people who still believe what I learned as a child. The Duggars really feed that image. So do the Bates, Honey Boo Boo, Swamp People, Kardashians and pretty much all reality tv families. Really though, it's leaders like Trump, Palin and Bush that feed that image.

It's funny. I married a Canadian (happy Canada day, y'all) and found his family and area to be much more "redneck" (area specific accent, strong prejudice [in the English vs. French culture], way more religious,  etc) than my own. But then again, I grew up in a very large TX city. I admit though, I've pretended to be Canadian when traveling in Europe before, because the American stereotype is so awful (and certainly true on occasion!).

Trump scares the bejeezus out of me. What a clusterfudge he would be in the international arena.

[nst]

3 hours ago, Chicken bones said:

It's funny. I married a Canadian (happy Canada day, y'all) and found his family and area to be much more "redneck" (area specific accent, strong prejudice [in the English vs. French culture], way more religious,  etc) than my own. But then again, I grew up in a very large TX city. I admit though, I've pretended to be Canadian when traveling in Europe before, because the American stereotype is so awful (and certainly true on occasion!).

Trump scares the bejeezus out of me. What a clusterfudge he would be in the international arena.

my mother is European born but now Canadian - her  sisters and brothers in Europe cal her an American 

it makes me nuts 

[twinmama]

On 6/26/2016 at 4:31 AM, IrishCarrie said:

And now I'm oddly excited for the show to start back on my screen so I can see Jeremy in action and get all judgey about them as a couple.

If nothing else, the Duggars make me feel superior and good about all my life choices! I don't even mean that sarcastically.

On 6/26/2016 at 5:53 PM, Miggy said:

Really though, it's leaders like Trump, Palin and Bush that feed that image.

Hey wait, Trump is not a leader of any sort! Bush I will sadly give you, Palin came close but lost and didn't even serve a full governor term before quitting that.

Quote

I was brought up on the idea that all Americans were very loud, very patriotic (with the extension that patriotic people tend to be racist), extremely religious (although not fundamentalist just that church was a huge part of life not an optional extra like here), gun mad and poorly educated. My friends and I all knew "if you hear the accent and they're nice or smart, they're Canandian. If they're nasty or dumb, they're American.

And as someone who was raised in New England, this is how we think of the south. Obviously I know not everyone in the south fits this, just like not everyone in the US fits it, but that's the stereotype.

On 6/27/2016 at 10:46 AM, 2manyKidzzz said:

The USA is great. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

I mean, I'd take universal healthcare. I love Minnesota, where I live, but pretty sure I'd move to Canada in a second if I could. Or England (though no idea what the fuck is up with this Brexit crap).

[2manyKidzzz]

Nowhere else I'd rather be!! Love it here.

[Kira]

10 hours ago, Italiangirl said:

there is any news on when S2 of counting suppose to start?

Not yet, but I think we'll get some news this month Maybe after the 4th? 

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, twinmama said:

If nothing else, the Duggars make me feel superior and good about all my life choices! I don't even mean that sarcastically.

Hey wait, Trump is not a leader of any sort! Bush I will sadly give you, Palin came close but lost and didn't even serve a full governor term before quitting that.

And as someone who was raised in New England, this is how we think of the south. Obviously I know not everyone in the south fits this, just like not everyone in the US fits it, but that's the stereotype.

I mean, I'd take universal healthcare. I love Minnesota, where I live, but pretty sure I'd move to Canada in a second if I could. Or England (though no idea what the fuck is up with this Brexit crap).

American in England here: I thought about staying after finishing my grad degree, but I'm a lot more hesitant now. Now I'm thinking:

1. US, at least temporarily, because I love my family and not dealing with immigration.

2. China, because as terrible as it sounds, I'd rather a repressive dictator who will mostly leave me alone over Donnie, and dat exchange rate.

3. Singapore. Freer than China, but way more expensive.

4. (Well, OK, tied with Singapore) Taiwan. Because Taiwan is awesome. But I would have to learn a different style of Chinese characters, which is kind of annoying.

5. Somewhere else in Europe. It's going to be ridiculously hard for me to get a job and it could be expensive, but I'm thinking about moving to the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, Ireland, or Sweden if a job comes up in those places.

[The butcher's wife]

The image of the poorly educated, loud Americans was sadly confirmed during a student exchange about ten years ago. They were surprised we had electricity(because the power lines are not mounted on wooden posts and can't be seen going into each individual house), or will you believe it - FRIDGES! Also of course the assumption that all Germans are Nazis. 

When we travelled to Canada two years ago we met a severely obese woman in her fifties wearing a shirt with the print "Just an all-american Jesus-loving girl" in a motel. If you added polluting the environment by driving gigantic cars and just not thinking/caring about the impact that human lifes have on this planet, that would be an example for the typical American from our point of view.

I first stumbled over the Duggars because of my obsession with babies (not a child horder, haven't even produced any of my own yet, just love babies) and my fascination with large families. That just isn't something you see in Germany, and I really wanted to find out about the why and how of it all. Finding out it was supposed to be because of god was a real turn-off for me though, and I was relievevd to find this site and to find out there were a lot of people who share my opinions about them and other fundies.

The Duggars fit into my image of the USA: a giant country with a lot of people who present a great variety of ways of life, but sadly only the negative or weird things get a lot of attention.

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, The butcher's wife said:

The image of the poorly educated, loud Americans was sadly confirmed during a student exchange about ten years ago. They were surprised we had electricity(because the power lines are not mounted on wooden posts and can't be seen going into each individual house), or will you believe it - FRIDGES! Also of course the assumption that all Germans are Nazis. 

When we travelled to Canada two years ago we met a severely obese woman in her fifties wearing a shirt with the print "Just an all-american Jesus-loving girl" in a motel. If you added polluting the environment by driving gigantic cars and just not thinking/caring about the impact that human lifes have on this planet, that would be an example for the typical American from our point of view.

I first stumbled over the Duggars because of my obsession with babies (not a child horder, haven't even produced any of my own yet, just love babies) and my fascination with large families. That just isn't something you see in Germany, and I really wanted to find out about the why and how of it all. Finding out it was supposed to be because of god was a real turn-off for me though, and I was relievevd to find this site and to find out there were a lot of people who share my opinions about them and other fundies.

The Duggars fit into my image of the USA: a giant country with a lot of people who present a great variety of ways of life, but sadly only the negative or weird things get a lot of attention.

It seems to me that  to assume all Germans are/were Nazis is no worse than to assume that all US Americans are undereducated boors.   Each country, region or group is going to have mistaken, possibly offensive, stereotypes about others.  Even when we feel impatience (and embarrassment) about our own people, we are always quick to find fault with "Those Others."

I agree that the USA is a large country with a great variety of people and ways of life.  I think, though, that even if we were a smaller country, the odd and weird would be what people would hear about since it is hardly news that many people lead ordinary lives.  

 

[EmCatlyn]

 I was pointing out that it is as much a mistaken generalization to attribute Nazi sympathies or views to all or most Germans as it is to characterize all Americans as rude, ignorant and arrogant. 

 

There are a lot of stereotypes out there that are based on oversimplification and misinformation.  Some may be more "insulting" than others, but the point is these steretypes arise from the same type of misinformation.

The Duggars certainly give America and truly "Christian" people a bad name. 

[samurai_sarah]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

It seems to me that  to assume all Germans are/were Nazis is no worse than to assume that all US Americans are undereducated boors.   Each country, region or group is going to have mistaken, possibly offensive, stereotypes about others.  Even when we feel impatience (and embarrassment) about our own people, we are always quick to find fault with "Those Others."

(snip)

Personally, as a German, I would be deeply offended if someone called me a Nazi. Nazis held and hold disgusting views that led to the murder of more than 6 million people and set the world on fire, with many, many more dying and suffering.

Germans have been struggling for more than 60 years to ensure that this never happens again. While there are - currently- fellow countrymen and women, whom I'd call "Nazis" without hesitation, I'd be deeply hurt to be tarred with the Nazi-brush.

On the other hand, the "loud ugly American" is just a silly stereotype that's based on ignorance and/or misunderstanding. Always calling all US Americans genocidal murderers for the wars fought against Native Americans, would be quite a different matter.

 

 

[backyard sylph]

I super loathe stereotypes. But at 51, I've never known anyone who stereotyped Germans as "Nazi." That sounds a bit astonishing in 2016. I have known people who would stereotype Germans as icy, clinical in thought and deed, and xenophobic. I wouldn't assume these things to be widely true, myself, but then, there is the nearly-opposite stereotype which defines Germans as jolly beer-drinking people who eat a lot of hearty food...and that can be said of a number of the people in Cincinnati who enjoy embracing their German ancestry. It's a very big deal here. They have Oktoberfests and dance in leiderhosen and drink lots and lots of local beer. The famed beautiful and currently-being-renovated Music Hall began as a place for German choir concerts and the like. There's an awful lot of wurst here, as well. There isn't anywhere with tuna on pizza, though...

I'd have utterly no idea what to expect of Germany (other than maybe tuna pizza) because I've only seen it in a few movies. But I would expect them not to assume I'm a loud and rude zealot who has arrived to insult their culture.

[Mothership]

All this talk about stereotypes reminded me of a joke told to me by a Swiss citizen:

The ideal European man:  Works like he's English, cooks like he's Italian; in on time like he's Swiss and makes love like he's French.

The worst European man:  cooks like he's English; is on time like he's Italian; makes love like he's Swiss and works like he's French.

(I was relieved when she left American's out of the joke!)

Now back to whatever we were snarking about.....