Counting On- Part 10: Counting out in Central America!

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, samurai_sarah said:

Personally, as a German, I would be deeply offended if someone called me a Nazi. Nazis held and hold disgusting views that led to the murder of more than 6 million people and set the world on fire, with many, many more dying and suffering.

Germans have been struggling for more than 60 years to ensure that this never happens again. While there are - currently- fellow countrymen and women, whom I'd call "Nazis" without hesitation, I'd be deeply hurt to be tarred with the Nazi-brush.

On the other hand, the "loud ugly American" is just a silly stereotype that's based on ignorance and/or misunderstanding. Always calling all US Americans genocidal murderers for the wars fought against Native Americans, would be quite a different matter.

 

 

I apologize if I offended.  I was not talking about the labels themselves. I was talking about the mental processes by which people ignorantly generalize.

The way it goes is: "The main thing I have heard about nationality X is Y, therefore all people from nationality X must be or support Y."  

Just because some generalizations are more offensive than others doesn't make the process any different. And who is to decide when a stereotype is "offensive" as opposed to "just silly"?

In the US, the word "nazi" can mean a range of things.  Like the expression "drinking the kool aid," it has moved beyond the tragic/horrible associations to an informal meaning of "a strongly authoritarian person."  I would bet anything that the stereotypical loud and ignorant American doesn't really know (or care) much about genocide (especially of Jews and Romany people) who are all Other to him.  

Anyone who knows anything understands that Germans have repudiated Nazism for more than 50 years.  Anyone who knows anything knows that Americans are not all loud and stupid and convinced of their own superiority to the rest of the world.

 If we are going to snark at the ignorant American who doesn't realize that today's Germans are not Nazis, we need to snark also at the ignorant German who doesn't realize that Americans are a very mixed bunch.

As I said, it is a question of the mental processes, not the connotation of the individual words. 

[samurai_sarah]

@EmCatlyn

I personally see where you are coming from. However, there is a difference between a rather silly stereotype, and an accusation of being genocidal.

[trisprefect]

All of this is making me think of my roommate when I studied abroad in Luxembourg. She was from Norway, and one day we started talking about each other's national stereotypes. Her's for America was miming a large stomach and saying, "I want a hamburger!" in a loud voice. I then told her that Norway wasn't important enough to the everyday American to even have a national stereotype associated with it (joking...kind of).

Most Europeans I met have had a good-natured view of Americans, treating our stereotypes as fascinating little quirks, but I think the hardest thing for them to wrap their minds around is the sheer scope of the country. Texas is not California which is not New York which is not Mississippi or Wyoming or Arizona. And it's just some cruel joke that we're all shoved together in one nation, expected to have a homogeneous culture.

For me, the ugly American stereotype is low key infuriating, just because I consider myself globally minded and have always lived in fairly cosmopolitan areas where that sort of overt patriotism and rejection of the outside world is not something I can remotely identify with.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

@EmCatlyn

I personally see where you are coming from. However, there is a difference between a rather silly stereotype, and an accusation of being genocidal.

Agreed. But not everyone who utters the word "nazi" is thinking "genocidal maniac."  And an ignorant America may very well not know that asking a German about Nazis is a little like  asking the average decent white Americans about the KKK and lynchings.  (By the way, I have been present when European exchange students have asked that type of question of US Southerners.)

I guess I get tired of the "ignorant boorish American" stereotype. It is "silly" the way the stereotype of the feather-brained, emotional woman is "silly." It promotes European feelings of superiority just as the "feather-brained" woman stereotype supports male feelings of superiority. 

For my part, I am ashamed to admit that I will participate in the feeling of "superiority" towards boorish Anglo-Americans when it suits me.  But I also have strange moments of being defensive of my adopted country.

In any case, I repeat that I did not intend to offend anyone.  I was just identifying some parallels in how all of us think about Others.

[VixenToast]

Aah, yes. Fat, stupid Americans! And Americans stereotypes of other Americans are just as infuriating and funny. Some are ignorant (not everyone from New York is from NYC, not everyone from Iowa lives on a farm) others are vulgar or put downs (Floridiots, Georgia Crackers, Iowa as in Idiots Out Wandering Around).

No we are certainly a very large country, with very different cultures and regions, similar in their attitudes and aspirations.

Also, I'm from Nebraska and I LOVE corn.  

No, I don't live on a farm.

[griffin]

i'm from kansas and no, i don't know dorothy

[The limit does not exist]

I spent a summer in Europe during college. When I would tell people I was from Ohio they would ask if that's where potatoes were grown... That would be Idaho... I never considered Ohio and Idaho to be very similar until that happened multiple times.

[Miggy]

3 hours ago, griffin said:

i'm from kansas and no, i don't know dorothy

The Duggars are from Arkansas. Do they know Bill Clinton?

[Fundie Bunny]

1 hour ago, Miggy said:

The Duggars are from Arkansas. Do they know Bill Clinton?

One could assume a former politician from Arkansas would know the president that was the governor of said state... But then I remembered JB didn't even show up to work and when he did show up it was with a kid or two

[Miggy]

We loved Bill Clinton. He taught the world that his state is pronounced Ar-can-saw not Ar-Kansas. 

Also, what's with Idaho and potatoes? I grew up in a town called Robertson, known to locals as Robo but to outsiders as Spudland. It's the home of the Giant Potato. (Don't ask.) The local football team are the spuddies. At school, all the kids from Robo were known as spuds. Is Idaho trying to steal our identity?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Miggy said:

snipped

Also, what's with Idaho and potatoes? I grew up in a town called Robertson, known to locals as Robo but to outsiders as Spudland. It's the home of the Giant Potato. (Don't ask.) The local football team are the spuddies. At school, all the kids from Robo were known as spuds. Is Idaho trying to steal our identity?

Quote (my bold):

"Potatoes remain the top vegetable crop in the United States. They are grown commercially in 30 states, but Idaho grows more potatoes than any other state, followed by Washington. Wisconsin, Colorado and North Dakota are also leading producers of potatoes."   (From here.)

Sorry. Arkansas may have an area called Spudland, but for actual potato production Arkansas doesn't even make the top 5. No one is trying to steal your identity. 

[OrchidBlossom]

11 hours ago, griffin said:

i'm from kansas and no, i don't know dorothy

I'm from Massachusetts and... well I do have a slight Boston accent but I don't really know what our stereotypes are.

[season of life]

Mothership's joke reminded me of the heaven vs. he'll joke I saw years ago. It says the same exact thing, except all the good parts are what you'll find in heaven while the stereotypical parts are what you'll find in hell.

[Audrey2]

19 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I'm from Massachusetts and... well I do have a slight Boston accent but I don't really know what our stereotypes are.

I've heard two. People from Massachusetts are terrible/scary drivers, and I've heard the term Masshole used before.

[OrchidBlossom]

6 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

I've heard two. People from Massachusetts are terrible/scary drivers, and I've heard the term Masshole used before.

I'm an excellent driver! But... I mean people in the Northeast generally are just a lot more blunt. I'm not a jerk but I spent several years living in the South and while I loved it, I could never live there for that reason. People say southerners are nicer but I think they're just more polite. I prefer people say what they think of me to my face, and I do the same. After all if someone doesn't like me, I probably don't like them. It's best we just get that out of the way and sop having to interact! Maybe that makes me a Masshole?

[Mercer]

"Masshole" is generally part of the same stereotype as the driving thing - I've never heard it used for any purpose other than driving. If someone is just being a jerk in general, they're simply a jerk. Masshole mainly happens behind the wheel, at least as I've ever heard it.

In my experience (I lived in Massachusetts for four years) drivers there aren't necessarily bad, but there is definitely a more aggressive driving style than you will find in most other parts of the country. This is particularly the case in and near Boston, and less so the further you get from the city.

At one point while I was living there, I had to drive to downtown Manhattan, which I was very nervous about... until I actually tried it and realized it was easier than the driving I was used to back in the Boston area, partly because the grid layout is a lot simpler to navigate, but also because the drivers weren't quite so eager to cut me off or try to barge ahead.

[RosyDaisy]

I hate Southern stereotypes. We are not all uneducated, hateful, racist, Confederate flag waving dumbasses. That's not to say people like that don't exist. They do. But all Southerners can't be painted with same brush.

[Audrey2]

Not all residents of Portland fit all of the stereotypes of Portlandia, either.

[47of74]

I hate Southern stereotypes. We are not all uneducated, hateful, racist, Confederate flag waving dumbasses. That's not to say people like that don't exist. They do. But all Southerners can't be painted with same brush.

Being from Dubuque we get that too occasionally given the area's less than stellar racial history.

[Jana'sHairScrunchie]

I'm from Ohio and growing up, I always heard the jokes and stereotypes about how it's so boring and it's just a state you drive trough to get somewhere better (they must not have been referring to west to Indiana). And then there's the Cleveland jokes. People I have met seem to think we are all very boring and love to make casseroles, which is probably a Midwest generalization but are we even technically a Midwestern state? 

[Audrey2]

4 minutes ago, Jana'sHairScrunchie said:

I'm from Ohio and growing up, I always heard the jokes and stereotypes about how it's so boring and it's just a state you drive trough to get somewhere better (they must not have been referring to west to Indiana). And then there's the Cleveland jokes. People I have met seem to think we are all very boring and love to make casseroles, which is probably a Midwest generalization but are we even technically a Midwestern state? 

Don't forget the corn. (I grew up there as well.) When my sister's husband to be drove in before the wedding, he insisted that Ohio was full of corn fields. Just to mess with him, we pointed out all of the soybean fields and fields of alfalfa for hay.

 

In reality, Ohio also contains the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Cedar Point (home of several great rollercoaster), as well as presidential homes and museums, and air and space museums.

 

It's interesting how people perceive certain states.

[Jana'sHairScrunchie]

@Audrey2 Yes! The part I grew up in was super rural and surrounded by fields. But if you go to the south eastern parts there are really lovely hills, and some of the North Eastern parts have beautiful trees and gorges and just lovely landscapes. 

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

"Masshole" is generally part of the same stereotype as the driving thing - I've never heard it used for any purpose other than driving. If someone is just being a jerk in general, they're simply a jerk. Masshole mainly happens behind the wheel, at least as I've ever heard it.

In my experience (I lived in Massachusetts for four years) drivers there aren't necessarily bad, but there is definitely a more aggressive driving style than you will find in most other parts of the country. This is particularly the case in and near Boston, and less so the further you get from the city.

At one point while I was living there, I had to drive to downtown Manhattan, which I was very nervous about... until I actually tried it and realized it was easier than the driving I was used to back in the Boston area, partly because the grid layout is a lot simpler to navigate, but also because the drivers weren't quite so eager to cut me off or try to barge ahead.

I went to college in Boston and I only drove their a couple of time before giving up. This is the most accurate thing ever:

 

I've from NJ, so...yeah. The stereotypes are always funny to me though, because I don't know anyone that fits those stereotypes, so I'm always left wondering what part of the state they're talking about (north and south NJ are basically two different states).

[MayMay1123]

Just had to chime in to say 99% of stereotypes about Philadelphians are true 

[Fundie Bunny]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents

I fit almost every stereotype for spain. I'm loud as hell, I go out until dawn, drink and curse like a sailor, and of course i'm lazy as fuck