Lori Alexander learning less than ever- Part 7

[kpmom]

23 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Well she didn't post about the money change today. Maybe tomorrow  

Lori (from today's post, my bolding)

Her absolutes is what kills me. They NEVER have happy times. Maybe when grandpa and grandma have to attend something together it is difficult because he or she is an @$$hole (Lori approved spelling). As for family gatherings NEVER having happy times- yeah right. I know many divorced people that are grandparents and they are perfectly adult enough to put differences aside for birthday parties, weddings, funerals, etc.

Lori should try adulating. She acts like a 2 year old. No reasoning with her when she has a fit, just got let her scream it out.

One of few honest things Ken said when he was here is that Lori is a black and white thinker, and has been that way for as long as he's known her.

That's not news to we FJers of course, but I thought it was interesting that Ken recognizes it.  Although, it doesn't stop him from jumping in and agreeing with her on her blog.

And ita about Lori posting eventually about changing the pictures on  money.  She'll be bitching to high heaven about it at some point.

[quiversR4hunting]

26 minutes ago, molecule said:

In other words, a woman who disregards all of Lori's other reasons for not divorcing is now being held responsible for the state of her husband's and children's souls. Good grief. She is responsible for everyone's salvation. This is why Lori is the fundie who angers me the most. I've said it before, and this is a good example of it: she is spiritually abusive.

of course the contradict themselves because the next thing she will say is that you are saved if you say the believers prayer (or whatever her flavor of salvation is). I don't get how you are responsible for your own salvation yet also responsible for others...so others are not responsible for themselves? Oh yeah, I forgot god Lori has spoken.

[polecat]

Today's post irked me. (Not that any of her posts DON'T irk me.)

The husband doesn't need to respect his wife, but apparently neither do the children need to respect their mother nor do the grandchildren. Apparently, the wife must grovel in front of her children and her grandchildren, too, if she dares make a decision for herself.

I wonder how she'd feel if one of her grandchildren dared to demand an apology for being force-fed or flicked in the face. (eta: something, imo, they'd actually have a right to do -- unlike the people demanding an apology for a divorce). 

She'd probably just scream for them to be spanked more.

[Koala]

Quote

One woman was telling her story of divorcing her husband due to the hardness of her heart towards him. Years later, her granddaughter held her face in her hands and asked her, "Nana, did you ask for forgiveness from Papa {her grandpa} for divorcing him?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my mama forgiveness for divorcing her dad?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my aunts to forgive you?" "Yes," she replied. Then that little girl looked right in her grandmother's face and asked, "Why haven't you asked me for my forgiveness?"
 

Yes, divorce hurts your grandchildren.

Okay, so this is either complete and utter bullshit, or that little girl was coached.  

From the "tone" of the questions, this was a very young child, and according to the story, the grandparents had been divorced for years.  Likely, the divorce took place when the child was too young to comprehend what was happening, or even before she was born.  Point being, she would have just accepted that her grandparents were divorced, and probably wouldn't have spent a ton of time pondering why, much less engaged her grandmother in an interrogation about whether she had apologized to everyone from her aunts to the cashier at the grocery.  Nope.  Either it never happened, or an adult planted it in her mind that she was owed an apology.  

Also, the story (if true) makes it clear that the child was being given an inappropriate amount of information regarding her grandparents' divorce.  Notice how she feels that her Nana was in the wrong and should apologize?  Yeah, she was hearing that from someone.  She didn't come up with that on her own.

Either way, (whether real or made up) what a shitty story.  Yet another way for Lori Alexander to manipulate her readers into staying in potentially dangerous situations.  Cause think of the children...  (like Lori ever thought of her children) 

 

Quote

Many wonder why a woman should stay married to a difficult husband. I am asked this often. I will give you my reasons. If she divorces her difficult husband he is no longer being "sanctified" by her presence. Jesus is no longer living with him since she, a believer indwelt by the Holy Spirit, has left him. The chances for him to be saved become much slimmer. The children are no longer sanctified. They will be at her home some of the time and see Jesus but then whenever they go to his home, they will no longer see Jesus or be influenced by goodness. She has no control over what the children may see or do with the man she divorced. 

I am sick and tired of Lori putting the weight of a man's "salvation" on his wife.  Jesus should be able to tend to his own business, without expecting a woman to do his work for him.

Finally, what is this about a wife staying so she can have control? I thought the wife was supposed to be submissive and obey her husband?  Now she's supposed to stay so she can control her husbands relationship with his children?

[lilwriter85]

1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Well she didn't post about the money change today. Maybe tomorrow  

Lori (from today's post, my bolding)

Her absolutes is what kills me. They NEVER have happy times. Maybe when grandpa and grandma have to attend something together it is difficult because he or she is an @$$hole (Lori approved spelling). As for family gatherings NEVER having happy times- yeah right. I know many divorced people that are grandparents and they are perfectly adult enough to put differences aside for birthday parties, weddings, funerals, etc.

Lori should try adulating. She acts like a 2 year old. No reasoning with her when she has a fit, just got let her scream it out.

I didn't think about Lori blogging about that subject. Now that you've mentioned, I see her blogging about it and using it as another way to trash women who fought for rights for themselves and other groups. Lori's post on that subject will be huge clusterfuck and we all know she will turn to Ken to whiteknight her.

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, molecule said:

She's been writing an awful lot about divorce recently. I wonder if one of her kids has been having marriage problems or something.

Her absolutes really irk me. 

 

I've thought for a while that Cassi, her youngest, is having marital problems. She writes about how Cassi "doesn't let things about Ryan bother her." What things, Lori? Please share. Plus, they married very quickly after meeting.

In addition, the couple must be under a lot of stress. Hubbie is in dental school. Cassi gets "too exhaused" working full time, so she switched to part-time. Now she is pregnant, so she's either quit or will be quitting soon. No income, therefore, other than what the moms and dads contribute.

[Koala]

Yep, and Lori was absolutely thrilled that they got married without "having their ducks in a row".  Unfortunately, Lori isn't smart enough to realize that not having your ducks in a row puts an incredible amount of stress on a marriage.  Having babies for Jesus isn't so much fun when you have no way to feed, clothe, house them.

[refugee]

1 hour ago, molecule said:

She's been writing an awful lot about divorce recently. I wonder if one of her kids has been having marriage problems or something.

Her absolutes really irk me. 

And this . . . 

In other words, a woman who disregards all of Lori's other reasons for not divorcing is now being held responsible for the state of her husband's and children's souls. Good grief. She is responsible for everyone's salvation. This is why Lori is the fundie who angers me the most. I've said it before, and this is a good example of it: she is spiritually abusive.

Oh, jeez, this is terrible. The "Lori" quote didn't come thru (I know how to manage it, I just am too groggy this morning), but the idea that a guy is going to have a much lower chance of salvation if his spirit-filled wife isn't his hostage to fate is just sick. If I knew someone in this situation, I'd beg them not to buy a ticket on this guilt trip.

That's the thing with people in legalistic belief systems -- they totally deny any power that the holy spirit might have. They take a verse and use it as a club to force people to live under soul-crushing conditions, using fear and guilt as needed, when painting a lovely but totally fictitious picture doesn't seem to be working.

6 minutes ago, Koala said:

Yep, and Lori was absolutely thrilled that they got married without "having their ducks in a row".  Unfortunately, Lori isn't smart enough to realize that not having your ducks in a row puts an incredible amount of stress on a marriage.  Having babies for Jesus isn't so much fun when you have no way to feed, clothe, house them.

This. I'm struggling with this with a family I know. Everyone else is full of joy and congratulations, and I find it hard to be around all these celebratory folks. 

In other news, my spouse completely floored me the other day. One of the teens was talking about the money thing, and he chimed in to say he thought it was an excellent idea.

[Emilycharlotte]

I hope this isn't too far from the topic, but it is Charlotte Bronte's 200th birthday, and I think these quotes from Jane Eyre are applicable to the discussion:

"Conventionality is not morality. Self-righteousness is not religion. To attack the first is not to assail the last. To pluck the mask from the face of the Pharisee, is not to lift an impious hand to the Crown of Thorns.

These things and deeds are diametrically opposed: they are as distinct as is vice from virtue. Men too often confound them: they should not be confounded: appearance should not be mistaken for truth; narrow human doctrines, that only tend to elevate and magnify a few, should not be substituted for the world-redeeming creed of  Christ."

And...

"Prejudices...are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education."

(Sorry---nerd moment over. )

 

 

 

 

[Hane]

17 minutes ago, Emilycharlotte said:

I hope this isn't too far from the topic, but it is Charlotte Bronte's 200th birthday, and I think these quotes from Jane Eyre are applicable to the discussion:

"Conventionality is not morality. Self-righteousness is not religion. To attack the first is not to assail the last. To pluck the mask from the face of the Pharisee, is not to lift an impious hand to the Crown of Thorns.

These things and deeds are diametrically opposed: they are as distinct as is vice from virtue. Men too often confound them: they should not be confounded: appearance should not be mistaken for truth; narrow human doctrines, that only tend to elevate and magnify a few, should not be substituted for the world-redeeming creed of  Christ."

And...

"Prejudices...are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education."

(Sorry---nerd moment over. )

 

 

 

 

I officially heart you for quoting this!

[quiversR4hunting]

2 hours ago, Koala said:

Quote

One woman was telling her story of divorcing her husband due to the hardness of her heart towards him. Years later, her granddaughter held her face in her hands and asked her, "Nana, did you ask for forgiveness from Papa {her grandpa} for divorcing him?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my mama forgiveness for divorcing her dad?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my aunts to forgive you?" "Yes," she replied. Then that little girl looked right in her grandmother's face and asked, "Why haven't you asked me for my forgiveness?"
 

Yes, divorce hurts your grandchildren.

Okay, so this is either complete and utter bullshit, or that little girl was coached.  

I go with utter bullshit.

My daughters never knew their paternal grandfather. He died when the oldest was 1 or 2. They had been divorced for probably 40 + years when he died. My daughters know that my MIL's husband is grandpa and he has other kids that don't belong to grandma. My oldest and now my middle have asked about the relationships and so I finally had to explain that G & G were married to different people first, then divorced those people and now they are married to each other but G-pa is still their g-pa. They don't give a shit about forgiveness and that would never enter their mind. They only care that they have fun with G&G.

[older than allosaurs]

26 minutes ago, Emilycharlotte said:

I hope this isn't too far from the topic, but it is Charlotte Bronte's 200th birthday, and I think these quotes from Jane Eyre are applicable to the discussion:

"Conventionality is not morality. Self-righteousness is not religion. To attack the first is not to assail the last. To pluck the mask from the face of the Pharisee, is not to lift an impious hand to the Crown of Thorns.

These things and deeds are diametrically opposed: they are as distinct as is vice from virtue. Men too often confound them: they should not be confounded: appearance should not be mistaken for truth; narrow human doctrines, that only tend to elevate and magnify a few, should not be substituted for the world-redeeming creed of  Christ."

And...

"Prejudices...are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education."

(Sorry---nerd moment over. )

I love this. The last time I reread Jane Eyre I kept imagining Charlotte, putting her own thoughts and observations into Jane's voice, insisting on her right to intellectual and moral freedom while having to publish under a man's name. Jane, and Dorothea in Middlemarch, are perfect antidotes to Lori's simple-minded pictures of the good old days.

and let the nerd moments multiply!

 

 

 

 

[quiversR4hunting]

What does Lori say if the husband files for divorce?  What if the husband doesn't want to try and save the marriage. I assume still the wife's fault.

[EmiGirl]

One woman was telling her story of divorcing her husband due to the hardness of her heart towards him. Years later, her granddaughter held her face in her hands and asked her, "Nana, did you ask for forgiveness from Papa {her grandpa} for divorcing him?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my mama forgiveness for divorcing her dad?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my aunts to forgive you?" "Yes," she replied. Then that little girl looked right in her grandmother's face and asked, "Why haven't you asked me for my forgiveness?"

If this were an answer on Jeopardy the correct response is, "What is shit that never happened?".

 

 

[Koala]

11 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I go with utter bullshit.

My daughters never knew their paternal grandfather. He died when the oldest was 1 or 2. They had been divorced for probably 40 + years when he died. My daughters know that my MIL's husband is grandpa and he has other kids that don't belong to grandma. My oldest and now my middle have asked about the relationships and so I finally had to explain that G & G were married to different people first, then divorced those people and now they are married to each other but G-pa is still their g-pa. They don't give a shit about forgiveness and that would never enter their mind. They only care that they have fun with G&G.

My kids were much older before they even took notice of the fact that they don't have a maternal grandfather.  That's just the way it always was, and they didn't think to question it. They did eventually ask me what happened to my father, and were content with the very simple (read: not heavily detailed) answer I gave them.  They certainly didn't have an emotional reaction, because I didn't give an emotional response.  I expect they might want (and deserve) more details when they are older, but I still don't expect it to be an overly emotional conversation.

Like I said, either that child was heavily influenced by the adults in her life, or that entire story is absolute bullshit.
 

10 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

What does Lori say if the husband files for divorce?  What if the husband doesnt want to try and save the marriage. I assume still the wife's fault.

I believe she has advised that the wife should still be willing to go over and cook and clean for him.  

[Hane]

OK--now I feel bad. I often type things like $#!+ and @$$#073 not because I'm holy and sacred, but because sometimes I don't feel like flat-out cussing. Sometimes I'm in the mood: sometimes I'm not. Does that make any sense??

[Emilycharlotte]

8 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

What does Lori say if the husband files for divorce?  What if the husband doesnt want to try and save the marriage. I assume still the wife's fault.

I think it must be. Maybe she wasn't being submissive enough and drove him away?  Because, apparently, people are basically math equations---if you follow the correct formula, problems are guaranteed to be solved.  If your answer is wrong, it's because you made an error somewhere. 

I think believing this way gives people comfort because it gives them a sense of control---if I follow every step perfectly, nothing bad can happen.  If your life is fairly smooth sailing, it's probably pretty easy to start feeling smug instead of thankful.

 

 

[refugee]

24 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

What does Lori say if the husband files for divorce?  What if the husband doesnt want to try and save the marriage. I assume still the wife's fault.

Silly quiversR4hunting! It's *always* the wife's fault. No matter what.

8 minutes ago, Emilycharlotte said:

I think it must be. Maybe she wasn't being submissive enough and drove him away?  Because, apparently, people are basically math equations---if you follow the correct formula, problems are guaranteed to be solved.  If your answer is wrong, it's because you made an error somewhere. 

I think believing this way gives people comfort because it gives them a sense of control---if I follow every step perfectly, nothing bad can happen.  If your life is fairly smooth sailing, it's probably pretty easy to start feeling smug instead of thankful.

Yup. I think this is why we stayed in such a destructive system for so long. When things weren't working, instead of questioning the system, the standard procedure was to second-guess oneself.

[Loveday]

@Emilycharlotte and @older than allosaurs , posts like yours are among the main reasons FJ is the first place I log into every morning when I turn on my computer. 

(Coincidentally--or perhaps providentially! --I happen to be in the middle of yet another biography of Charlotte Bronte at the moment. )

[quiversR4hunting]

10 minutes ago, Koala said:

I believe she has advised that the wife should still be willing to go over and cook and clean for him.

I hope you mean like Julia Robert's character in "Something to Talk About"

 

8 minutes ago, Emilycharlotte said:

 Because, apparently, people are basically math equations---if you follow the correct formula, problems are guaranteed to be solved.

Just like Anna Duggar! Lori is so right if you do everything right (like Anna) you are guaranteed to have a perfect marriage! You are right, this is Lori's philosophy - so black and white.

@Emilycharlotte - too funny describing it like a math equation. Made me laugh!

[Georgiana]

Sooooooo......does God have to ask me for my forgiveness for taking my grandfather out of my life by killing him before I was born? Since obviously not having all 4 grandparents in your life traumatizes you so deeply....

[laPapessaGiovanna]

53 minutes ago, Emilycharlotte said:

  Because, apparently, people are basically math equations---if you follow the correct formula, problems are guaranteed to be solved.  If your answer is wrong, it's because you made an error somewhere. 

 

 

Iirc this is nearly exactly the description Mitchell gives in Gone with the Wind of Scarlett O'Hara's way to deal with people, especially men.

[Koala]

I made a mistake- it wasn't Lori who advised that women should cook and clean for their husbands when they're separated- it was actually Ken.  

[Florita]

3 hours ago, Koala said:

Quote

One woman was telling her story of divorcing her husband due to the hardness of her heart towards him. Years later, her granddaughter held her face in her hands and asked her, "Nana, did you ask for forgiveness from Papa {her grandpa} for divorcing him?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my mama forgiveness for divorcing her dad?" and she said, "Yes." "Did you ask my aunts to forgive you?" "Yes," she replied. Then that little girl looked right in her grandmother's face and asked, "Why haven't you asked me for my forgiveness?"
 

Yes, divorce hurts your grandchildren.

Okay, so this is either complete and utter bullshit, or that little girl was coached.  

Because teaching your children to hold a grudge is what being Christian is all about in the Bible according to Lori.

[PennySycamore]

@Emilycharlotte,  I'm pretty sure I know where you got your username!  I love it, btw!  Thanks for reminding us that today is the bicentenary of Charlotte's birth.