Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 15

[ksgranola1]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 11:52 AM, sj3339sta said:

The frumper seems to be more of the "poor" way to clothe a massive family.  The dresses are made at home.  And the massive collars do draw people's eyes to their faces.  But they are ugly as sin.  

When Prince Charles first got engaged to Princess Diana, she wore those huge collars. There's one of her w/toddler William in one. It was the last time she dressed like a frumpier. She got gorgeous after that.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

When Prince Charles first got engaged to Princess Diana, she wore those huge collars. There's one of her w/toddler William in one. It was the last time she dressed like a frumpier. She got gorgeous after that.

The big collar appears here and there in fashion.   What makes it hideous in Michelle's case is the combination with a jumper.  

The loose A-line jumper was popular in the 1970s and 1980s, but we wore them with turtlenecks or tshirts or (in the summer) by themselves.  Not with a collared shirt, especially not a big collar.  (The denim jumper was still popular with soccer moms and such in the 1990s and early 2000s, though definitely not stylish, just practical. And, again, ordinary adults did not wear it with peter pan collars much less puritan collars.)

The rounded as opposed to square ends of Michelle's puritan collars are supposed to make the look gentler/younger/feminine.  What they remind me of is bibs.  

Regardinng Diana, if you are thinking of this picture, the dress is a maternity dress worn to leave the hospital.  I think she always looked stylish and appropriate for her age, but you are right that it was after William was born that she matured into a serious fashion person.

 

 

[SwishySkirt]

On 14 May 2016 at 1:33 AM, anotherone said:

This was the style in the 60's and was a staple in Catholic grade school from the late 50's to even more recently.  Usually it was for the under 12 set.  Our grade school switched from jumpers to a skirt and blouse when the girls got to 7th grade.  I'm guessing you're much younger than me

https://www.etsy.com/listing/236794379/vintage-1960s-girls-sleeveless-back?ref=shop_home_active_47

https://www.etsy.com/listing/241503335/uncut-girls-lined-jumper-school-uniform?ref=shop_home_active_21

 

 

I'm 25 and wore something similar at that age. Only we didn't have Peter-Pan collars. I wore a polo shirt but other schools (even now) wear button down shirts

[Born Skeptic]

Big oversized collars (bib collars) were common in more formal or "dress up" clothes in the 1980's.They were fashionable with young demure women and teens. Jessica McClintock, Gunne Sax, and others were designing clothes with big collars.  (Jim Bob and Michelle would have been in high school then.  Im not surprised they clung to this look.)

Princess Diana wore oversized collars quite a bit - both before and after her marriage.

Her wedding dress also had a huge ruffled collar, and it was considered the height of fashion at the time.

 

 

 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Born Skeptic said:

Big oversized collars (bib collars) were common in more formal or "dress up" clothes in the 1980's.They were fashionable with young demure women and teens. Jessica McClintock, Gunne Sax, and others were designing clothes with big collars.  (Jim Bob and Michelle would have been in high school then.  Im not surprised they clung to this look.)

Princess Diana wore oversized collars quite a bit - both before and after her marriage.

<img alt="images-2.jpeg" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="14749" src="http://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2016_05/images-2.jpeg.32d2d38ad497af5602faff20727dc555.jpeg" /> <img alt="images-9.jpeg" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="14750" src="http://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2016_05/images-9.jpeg.bbe8f4ad64e8ec378ac852366267f24a.jpeg" /> <img alt="images-6.jpeg" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="14752" src="http://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2016_05/images-6.jpeg.f47718e930047d541ad480963e5d3991.jpeg" />

Her wedding dress also had a huge ruffled collar, and it was considered the height of fashion at the time.

<img alt="images-7.jpeg" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="14753" src="http://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2016_05/images-7.jpeg.502336f67a4214e95e70489aed73369c.jpeg" />

 

 

 

Yes!  They were actually called bib-collars in some cases.  I think the point someone made above about Diana's clothing style changing was accurate.  After motherhood, she gradually eased out of the "demure" look and became "elegant."

[Four is Enough]

I will argue that Diana's collars were interestingly cut, had trim on some of them, and were cute to look at in and of themselves. Compared to Michelle's PP collars, they are far more beautiful, and call attention to themselves and the Princess' face.

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

I will argue that Diana's collars were interestingly cut, had trim on some of them, and were cute to look at in and of themselves. Compared to Michelle's PP collars, they are far more beautiful, and call attention to themselves and the Princess' face.

and they were 10x more expensive. Michelle wasn't buying from top British designers; I bet a lot of her dresses were handmade.  I think Michelle liked Gunne Sax dresses when she was a teen--or perhaps coveted them, but couldn't afford them

[2manyKidzzz]

For whatever the reason Diana chose the collar-look, it was not addressing an interest in a cult. Whatever her religious affiliation, I never even heard it emphasized. 

[ksgranola1]

Diana was Church of England; Episcopalian, actually. I'm pretty sure she had designers for all her clothes. They must have thought those collars were flattering.

[Bad Wolf]

I had a Gunne Sax wedding dress. 1975 square neck.  It was the first time I'd ever shopped and not looked at the price first. I told myself that I would choose what I wanted regardless of cost. Fell in love with the dress, looked at the price (not on sale), $38. Cheap even back then. Still have it, though Lord knows why.

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I will argue that Diana's collars were interestingly cut, had trim on some of them, and were cute to look at in and of themselves. Compared to Michelle's PP collars, they are far more beautiful, and call attention to themselves and the Princess' face.

Yes, of course.  There is much that can be done within the same general style, and financial resources aside, taste can have a lot to do with how the same style is handled.  Michelle has nothing resembling good taste or sense of style.  Diana had more than their share of both.

[PennySycamore]

@ksgranola1, Diana was indeed Church of England, but she was Anglican not Episcopalian.  The Episcopal Church in the US is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion.  Queen Elizabeth II is not only the head of the Church of England, but also the Church of Scotland.

[Bad Wolf]

6 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

@ksgranola1, Diana was indeed Church of England, but she was Anglican not Episcopalian.  The Episcopal Church in the US is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion.  Queen Elizabeth II is not only the head of the Church of England, but also the Church of Scotland.

The Episcopal church in the US was based on the Church of Scotland. During the revolutionary war, the C of E refUsed to make American bishops, so the C of S ordained them. The Episcopal church was recently sanctioned by the Anglican chur h for performing gay marriages.

Sorry for the wrong spellings, etc. My tablet won't let me correct when I use the quote. It also throws in random caps.

[EmCatlyn]

Michelle did not dress in frumpers because they had ever been in style. Michelle liked frumpers because they were identified with "modest" dress.  The stuff is still being sold/promoted.

Links to different sources for Christian clothes.

Jumper Patterns from a Modest Clothing Pattern store.

The main reason the Duggar females no longer dress in frumpers is that as the older girls hit adolescence, their weird clothes would have been a liability for the show.  People who might forgive the Duggar parents for not doing more to protect their daughters from Josh might have accused the parents of cruelty if they had forced 16 and 17 year olds (and older!) to dress in frumpers.

I have occasionally wondered also if the family moved away from frumpers as Jill and Jessa became vocal about wanting to dress more normally.  Jana alone might have been dismissed (there she was, not beeing content again) but Jill could cajole her dad and Jessica could be stubborn.  With the show as an argument and TLC producers giving a nudge in the direction of normalcy, Michelle's appalling taste was replaced by her daughters' less extreme sense of "modest clothing."

I wonder also if the concession to fashion might not also have been a concession to the girls' wishes aimed at keeping them content.  It is amazing how kids will rebel about clothes when they don't rebel against other seemingly more important things. 

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

Michelle did not dress in frumpers because they had ever been in style. Michelle liked frumpers because they were identified with "modest" dress.  The stuff is still being sold/promoted.

Links to different sources for Christian clothes.

Jumper Patterns from a Modest Clothing Pattern store.

The main reason the Duggar females no longer dress in frumpers is that as the older girls hit adolescence, their weird clothes would have been a liability for the show.  People who might forgive the Duggar parents for not doing more to protect their daughters from Josh might have accused the parents of cruelty if they had forced 16 and 17 year olds (and older!) to dress in frumpers.

I have occasionally wondered also if the family moved away from frumpers as Jill and Jessa became vocal about wanting to dress more normally.  Jana alone might have been dismissed (there she was, not beeing content again) but Jill could cajole her dad and Jessica could be stubborn.  With the show as an argument and TLC producers giving a nudge in the direction of normalcy, Michelle's appalling taste was replaced by her daughters' less extreme sense of "modest clothing."

I wonder also if the concession to fashion might not also have been a concession to the girls' wishes aimed at keeping them content.  It is amazing how kids will rebel about clothes when they don't rebel against other seemingly more important things. 

it also didnt match with their "buy used and save the difference" shtick.  They love to brag about going to thrift shops and frumpers are hard to come by there!

[Bad Wolf]

I've never actually seen a frumper in a thrift store. I'm usually looking for boy scout uniforms to help my grandson's troop. I will now look for frumpers and share a picture with you when/if I find one.

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I had a Gunne Sax wedding dress. 1975 square neck.  It was the first time I'd ever shopped and not looked at the price first. I told myself that I would choose what I wanted regardless of cost. Fell in love with the dress, looked at the price (not on sale), $38. Cheap even back then. Still have it, though Lord knows why.

I remember going to the Gunne Sax outlet in San Francisco before my senior prom to pick out a dress.  My memory is sort of vague, but I think I didn't find anything I liked in my price range so a friend ended up sewing one from a pattern and I loved it.  It did not have a collar - it had shoulder straps.  I don't know what happened to that dress - it is long gone.

[HereticHick]

Is Derrick's latest pic (with some sort of pollo restaurant mascot) taken at a shopping mall?  Man, their life is so rough in OMGDangerousCintralAmerica!

 

 

[EmCatlyn]

51 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

it also didnt match with their "buy used and save the difference" shtick.  They love to brag about going to thrift shops and frumpers are hard to come by there!

Good point.  To be fair, though, as far as the kids' clothes went, polo shirts and khakis, jeans or cords for the boys and blouses for the girls would be found at thrift stores.  For that matter, some second-hand school jumpers could be altered into frumpers very easily. And some of the ruffly jumper stuff for the very little girls which was popular in the 80s would have been in thrift shops in the 90s.  

Michelle would have had to make her own frumpers though. People who actually buy frumpers new aren't going to give them to thrift stores.  And I am reasonably sure that the puritan drool bib collars she loved were homemade.

I have no trouble believing that before TLC they mostly shopped at thrift stores and big discount places and yard sales.  They were too poor to do otherwise.  

After TLC money started rolling in, I suspect it was just part of the brand.  Plus I am sure that as a matter of principle they still went around to yard sales and such to get bargains.  (I just know that the Duggars are the sort that show up the evening before the yard sale, while you are putting prices on things, and try to talk you into selling your best stuff at half what you hope to get for it.)

[EmmieJ]

I am mildly pleased to see Israel in a pink shirt   I also smiled at Derick wearing a head scarf.  Can you imagine JB or any of the Duggar boys letting their hair grow long and thick, then wrapping a bandana around their head?  I wonder what Dimbulb thinks when he sees these pictures?

[HereticHick]

1 minute ago, EmmieJ said:

I am mildly pleased to see Israel in a pink shirt   I also smiled at Derick wearing a head scarf.  Can you imagine JB or any of the Duggar boys letting their hair grow long and thick, then wrapping a bandana around their head?  I wonder what Dimbulb thinks when he sees these pictures?

OMG I didn't notice the shirt--what if someone thinks he is a girl child??!!! Oh the bathroom confusion!!! : ) I think I've seen Duggarlings in pink polos, though.

[I'm more concerned that he will be afraid of giant tophatted chickens for the rest of his life]

[EmmieJ]

If this is a great turn-out, I wonder how many people normally turn up for one of their services?  (I counted about 16 people seated at the tables.)  I also notice that many people seem to have chosen seats as far away from the stage as possible.

[Bad Wolf]

That's pretty cute. Not going to snark on that one.

[socalrules]

You sit as far away from the stage as possible so that you can make a quick exit without anyone noticing. I know this from experience. I wouldn't be surprised if people attended because they were told they would be given something like a bag of food. Wasn't the past Mother's Day just a day in the U.S.? If so, it wouldn't be a day that means anything to these women. 

[hilee]

On 4/30/2016 at 2:41 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

So I know people may have already covered it, but Jill's question to "the moms out there" about picking up toys: she could just do what her mom did and pop out a bunch of daughters to clean everything up and raise her other children for her.

Try church garage sales. I just went to one and they had a "fancy room" it was full of stuff the Duggars would gush over. 

A "new" collared blouse from 1972ish. Not for me.