Jill and Jessa Counting on--part 3

[Timetostoplurking]

2 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

I agree with you, and disagree. BC wouldn't suddenly change a person, but having more time as a couple without children may give relationships a firmer foundation. Especially for very young couples, who barely know each other.

Due to their crazy ideology, Ben and Jessa jumped in at the deep end. They're barely out of home, barely know each other, are still freshly married and have a baby. BC might have given them some time to establish their relationship, and fully mature, before bringing a child into it all.

 

Agreed!!!   Also maybe going on a few honest to goodness DATES may have helped too.  You know....the kind where you talk to each other!   :/

[lascuba]

8 minutes ago, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

 

I'm still not convinced this accounts for all the bored and distant exchanges between him and Jessa that we see on the new show though. Thoughts?

Boredom in general, maybe? Disillusionment for sure. Not with Jessa specifically (I mean, possibly, but that's not where I'm going with this), but with the realities of reality tv. I think Ben went about meeting Jessa thinking what he saw of the Duggars on tv was 100% real, that the camera were capturing what they'd be doing without them around. And while he may have been able to justify how staged it all was during their courtship, wedding, honeymoon, etc, I think after 2+ years of multiple takes of what are supposed to be spontaneous events, of meetings with producers to discuss story lines and what they should change for better fan reactions--all without the benefit of having a platform to vehemently spread the word of Jesus Calvin Spurgeon--have taken a toll. I'm sure Ben has argued with Jessa, with Jim Bob, and with TLC about this.I can just imagine Ben trying to be the voice of "reason" in all this:

"Why can't we be shown yelling at people at abortion clinics?"

"But moms are the one's primarily responsible for childcare, so why are we pretending that Jessa is against the term 'babysitting?'"

"Why do you need 5 takes of Jessa walking through the door after coming back from hanging out with Anna and Jana? Just use the first one which was the real one?"

"But Jana, Jinger, and Joy are unmarried so why shouldn't they be living at home and taking care of the kids? Why are we trying to satisfying people with the wrong beliefs?"

He must be so confused and frustrated and angry about it all. So now when he's on camera he's even more checked out than Jana was pre-Counting On. Assuming things are relatively ok, marriage-wise, he just might have decided that he's not going to try to act out a scene with his wife when the producers should be using the real interaction they recorded but decided needed polishing. He's not going to hide his annoyance at Jessa correcting him on "babysitting" when it wasn't a sincere correction, just something that was decided was the best way to approach the issue in front of the cameras. Until he's allowed to show us all the biblical brilliance of his mind, he won't play along any more than he has to. He'll show up, but he won't put any effort into it.

 

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

I agree with you, and disagree. BC wouldn't suddenly change a person, but having more time as a couple without children may give relationships a firmer foundation. Especially for very young couples, who barely know each other.

Due to their crazy ideology, Ben and Jessa jumped in at the deep end. They're barely out of home, barely know each other, are still freshly married and have a baby. BC might have given them some time to establish their relationship, and fully mature, before bringing a child into it all.

 

Agree.

Plus BC use would give them more time, period. Time to focus on building a solid foundation, for personal growth, for taking some time to get to know themselves and each other, to make plans, further education, if that's what Ben is aiming for. BC use and delaying procreation of additional responsibilities, time and money sucks, could only help these young folks, in the long run.

JB and M would not have all the crap that they have, had they not had that 4 year buffer and all that it provided: foundation, a bank account, tangible assets etc...

[Denim Jumper]

11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Agree.

Plus BC use would give them more time, period. Time to focus on building a solid foundation, for personal growth, for taking some time to get to know themselves and each other, to make plans, further education, if that's what Ben is aiming for. BC use and delaying procreation of additional responsibilities, time and money sucks, could only help these young folks, in the long run.

JB and M would not have all the crap that they have, had they not had that 4 year buffer and all that it provided: foundation, a bank account, tangible assets etc...

And to think... they probably have another 20+ years of kids still living at home.

[quiverofdoubt]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Agree.

Plus BC use would give them more time, period. Time to focus on building a solid foundation, for personal growth, for taking some time to get to know themselves and each other, to make plans, further education, if that's what Ben is aiming for. BC use and delaying procreation of additional responsibilities, time and money sucks, could only help these young folks, in the long run.

JB and M would not have all the crap that they have, had they not had that 4 year buffer and all that it provided: foundation, a bank account, tangible assets etc...

Not to mention time to get to know each other. Really know each other, privately.  Courtship doesn't allow for that, so their first real private moments and conversations didn't happen till marriage.  And then in very short order, bam, pregnancy.  The challenges of pregnancy, and the hormone changes that brings on  changes a woman.  Then the changes people go through with their first born, and the hormones of breastfeeding.  They didn't get to know themselves, or each other, or their relationship, before all of that happened.  That goes for Jill and Jessa.  No real time for get to know YOU, as yourself, never the less time to establish a family, decide on child rearing choices, or anything else.  Some of the most common marriage advice from couples is "wait a few years to have kids".  

[samurai_sarah]

15 minutes ago, Timetostoplurking said:

Agreed!!!   Also maybe going on a few honest to goodness DATES may have helped too.  You know....the kind where you talk to each other!   :/

I couldn't agree more! 

They had little to no time to really get to know each other, and now they're parents. They have to be a team, but never had the time to establish that team.

[MoonFace]

17 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I wouldn't be too sure that getting them kidnapped would help.  TLC would probably pay the kidnappers to film the Duggars in captivity (Think of the ratings!) and there would be a collection of money among humpers to raise the money for the ransom (Sierra could auction her strawberries!) and TLC would film that, and the reactions of the Duggars who stayed home, etc.  And the episode of their triumphant release would almost top the ratings of JessaJill's weddings.   And there would be more promos...

PLEASE!   Do not give TLC any ideas!   They just might pay someone to kidnap them for the story line!   

[Bad Wolf]

When Ben came along, the Duggars had been having a pretty nice time on the TLC dollar, trips to Europe, etc. They had a big fancy wedding and honeymoon, then the first scandal exploded. Ben was not prepared to be without the TLC money, and probably resents that people are more interested in his wife, than his Godly utterances. It's Jill and Jessa Counting On, he doesn't get a mention.

[Mela99]

15 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I have never heard John-David speak as much as I have in this episode. It's great that it seems as though he finally came our of his shell. 

I think having his big mouthed brother out of the way certainly helps.

[Jucifer]

1 hour ago, Denim Jumper said:

It is strange, but I actually feel really sorry for him because he has a lot on his plate at 20 years old. Were he and Jessa mainstream Christians or even fundie-lite, they could have still gotten married when they did, but take a good 5 or 6 years to get established and just live for each other. It's incredibly rare for a 19/20 year old guy (even a married one) to choose to procreate, so a good part of me believes that, while he loves his baby dearly, he would have had no qualms about putting off fatherhood if it was his choice. In a very short span of time, he went from banging his gorgeous wife on the daily, to sharing her with a newborn; it's an adjustment for most men, but compounded by his youth. 

In this way they seem to me like a teenage couple 'in trouble'- the guy has gotten the girl pregnant and they were forced to get married. 

Reality can be a bitch. 

[Jana814]

5 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I think having his big mouthed brother out of the way certainly helps.

I'm sure it deffently helps. I always got the feeling that he hated being in the spotlight & always left it up to Josh. Now with Josh not around it has to be him. 

[CoveredInBees]

2 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Now with Josh not around it has to be him. 

Exactly, poor ole JD has been dragged back in from relative obscurity. He's not back in front of the camera of his own accord, he may still be fundie, he may have some funky ideas about what wimmen are for (the 3 C's - Cooking, Cleaning, proCreating) but he was out of the spotlight living his own life.

[sj3339sta]

I wonder if advertisers are feeling the heat now?  It seems the variety of things and companies advertising were severely diminished this show.

[MoonFace]

   22 minutes in to the show and I've lost count of how many times they've said LIKE.    

[Hera]

2 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

I think that by the time the Lost Girls are ready to court, someone will have escaped or said 'fuck you' to their parents and found a spouse the traditional way.  Or they will have married someone out of state with an established job/career and roots (see Michael and Alyssa Bates).

Let's hope!

[EmmieJ]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

My theory on Ben is that TLC/Duggars have muzzled him, and since he's not allowed to tell people they're going to hell on camera, he doesn't know *what* to say or how to behave. Hence, the awkwardness and looks of annoyance. I can imagine that he thinks all the scripted stuff they say and do are stupid. So when Jessa corrected him on "babysitting," he wasn't pissed off at her per se; it was more that he thinks they shouldn't have to lie about their beliefs in order to pacify us heathens.

I think JB approved of Ben, at least in part, because of his youth and his similar upbringing.  It seems likely that JB thought he could control Ben just as he's controlled his own children, even into adulthood.  Have him toe the party line.  Is Ben the only boy in his family?  Is he the golden child, the one who drops pearls of wisdom every time he opens his mouth?  That's the impression I get from Ben - that he's used to having his family respond positively to whatever he says and praise him for it.  He probably thought he'd get many opportunities to shine and stand out on the show.  Instead, the show went away completely for awhile and he had to make do with riding Jessa's coattails at women's conferences and signing autographs.  I think of that "Happy Birthday Derrick" home video that was posted on the official Duggar FB page.  JB is the one who does all of the talking, but at the very end, Ben pipes up and reels off some quote.  I don't think that was the plan, but Ben couldn't contain himself a second longer! 

Now he's once again got the opportunity to be on tv, except TLC keeps insisting on focusing on Jessa, Jinger, Jana, Joy, JD, and assorted Duggar boys.  I bet a lot of Ben gets left on the cutting room floor.  He's finding out what Anna went through - he's married into the Duggars, but he's not really a Duggar.  He's second best.

[socalrules]

JD crosses me as that helpful relative many families have. The one who is dependable and is always there for family. He will help you move, fix your sink and come change your flat tire when you call in the middle of the night. He is at every event but will never stick out because he blends into the group. He likely rarely asks anyone else for anything for himself. I think JD has always taken his role and big brother seriously and it's probably why the kids have always seemed more at ease with him than Josh. They actually seem to like him. 

[WhyNotJulie]

On March 29, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Georgiana said:

I don't know what all y'all are hating on.  This show is a BLESSING and an ENCOURAGEMENT.  

It blesses me by being adequate background noise and is so boring that it encourages me to work on my (occasionally tedious and frustrating) programming homework rather than pay attention.  

I know the Duggars don't believe in higher education, so it is really wonderful of them to create something to help me complete my post-grad certificates.  

This is my favourite post on this site. 

[choralcrusader8613]

8 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Is Ben the only boy in his family?  Is he the golden child, the one who drops pearls of wisdom every time he opens his mouth?  That's the impression I get from Ben - that he's used to having his family respond positively to whatever he says and praise him for it.

He isn't the only boy. But he's the oldest and the first son in his family.

[lascuba]

21 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I think JB approved of Ben, at least in part, because of his youth and his similar upbringing.  It seems likely that JB thought he could control Ben just as he's controlled his own children, even into adulthood.  Have him toe the party line.  Is Ben the only boy in his family?  Is he the golden child, the one who drops pearls of wisdom every time he opens his mouth?  That's the impression I get from Ben - that he's used to having his family respond positively to whatever he says and praise him for it.  He probably thought he'd get many opportunities to shine and stand out on the show.  Instead, the show went away completely for awhile and he had to make do with riding Jessa's coattails at women's conferences and signing autographs.  I think of that "Happy Birthday Derrick" home video that was posted on the official Duggar FB page.  JB is the one who does all of the talking, but at the very end, Ben pipes up and reels off some quote.  I don't think that was the plan, but Ben couldn't contain himself a second longer! 

Now he's once again got the opportunity to be on tv, except TLC keeps insisting on focusing on Jessa, Jinger, Jana, Joy, JD, and assorted Duggar boys.  I bet a lot of Ben gets left on the cutting room floor.  He's finding out what Anna went through - he's married into the Duggars, but he's not really a Duggar.  He's second best.

Excellent points. The fact that his pearls of "wisdom" go unappreciated by his in-laws and mostly unheard by TV audiences must really stick in his craw.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

16 hours ago, Mercer said:

My reading of Ben and Jessa as a couple is: 

Ben wanted to be famous without really having to do anything. Jessa wanted to get married and start a family. They both wanted to have sex. Their goals coincided, so as prescribed by their religious subculture, they got married.

That's not to say they don't genuinely love each other or aren't genuinely compatible. I'm sure they do, and on some level they are. I'm just not sure that if they had a more mainstream lifestyle, their degree of connection would necessarily have resulted in a marriage.

But of course that's just speculation.

Jessa wanted OUT and wanted SEX. Ben is from a like-minded enough family that I think he saw the traveling etc and said "Beats working" and then there's sex.

[SassyPants]

I think JB was afraid of what Jessa might do and that is why is ultimately approved the marriage. No sane parent would OK such a union. No educations, no jobs, nada...it's like approving the marriage of 2 12 YO kids.

[nst]

3 hours ago, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

I'm not a mother so not sure if my perspective applies to your first sentence. (unless that was just directed at the general fj population?)

Before I made made my post, I too thought about the same point you mentioned, that Ben has plenty of siblings to have had experience with babies, but I don't know for certain that he was "in the trenches" with babies to the same extent the Duggar girls were. 

Anyway, I do think @lascuba is on the right track about Ben's mouth possibly being put on lockdown. Jessa obviously loves being filmed and doing talking heads, and Ben seemed to be way into it on 19kids. He is different now for sure. I agree they probably did give him a list of things he can't discuss and now he has nothing left to say. 

I'm still not convinced this accounts for all the bored and distant exchanges between him and Jessa that we see on the new show though. Thoughts?

I mean everyone - mother or no - because there are things we all see differently 

I think something went down between the 3 part series to now

[Mothership]

Well, I'm done with the show.  I could feel my brain cells atrophy as I watched.

BS1 (before scandal 1), at least 19KAC had a catch:  "....and I gave birth to every one".  Even the stupid TLC sponsored trips, the gimmicks and the incessant JB and DQ crap was SOMETHING to watch and snark about.  This isn't even snark-worthy.  They could randomly follow my neighbors around and get better television.  At least they might get some real adult interaction at a coffee shop.

If I'm going to waste time with non-reality TV, I'll watch the Kardashians.  At least they have awareness that they're self-promoting a brand and aren't pretending to be something they're not.  They're undereducated  and over sexed and they know it!

Bin and Jessa are the fundie versions of teen mom, but not as interesting.   I do wonder whether Derrick really wanted to go back to Nepal or somewhere in Asia and bum around (or whatever it was he did there before) and he was responsible enough to not do that with a baby in tow, so he grifted and settled for faux missionary work in Cintral Amurica.  Jill is barely keeping it together, but maybe having been thrown into a situation removed from her family and having to make it work, will actually pull her head out of her ass (or JB's ass or wherever it is) and she'll end up better off for it. 

[lascuba]

28 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think JB was afraid of what Jessa might do and that is why is ultimately approved the marriage. No sane parent would OK such a union. No educations, no jobs, nada...it's like approving the marriage of 2 12 YO kids.

I really think that JB felt so secure in the show and his empire's lasting popularity that he really was fine with Ben for the most part. He probably did have some reservations over Ben's lack of income, but "heart for ministry" is the easiest way to manipulate JB. Convince him that's what you want most in life and boom, you get a Duggar daughter. He probably considers/ed Ben a great speaker and thought he had a great chance in making a living from public speaking.

I just don't see Jessa as a loose canon that JB would have to worry about. Especially because I truly believe that Jessa wasn't all that into Ben in the beginning and it would have been easy for JB to end things then...it's not as if Ben's financial prospects changed from the beginning of courtship to the engagement. Jessa's eventual feelings for Ben might have softened JB up enough to be optimistic about Ben's future--especially since they had TLC as a backup (HA!)--but if he were seriously concerned, he would have killed that relationship, and Jessa would have put up a good public face on it (no matter how she would have reacted privately).