Jessa, Ben, and Spurgeon part 4

[Kelsey]

7 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Plus, doesn't there need to be a certain square footage and designated number of bedrooms (based on sex of the child/ren)? Is JB going to give Jessa and Ben a bigger home so that they meet all of the adoption criteria?

Based on the size of their current home, it looks like they could adopt two same-sex children. You can officially put a child under three in the parents room in most states and there should be enough square feet in the second bedroom to met the requirements for two children.

Having been through the process to foster adopt, I don't think they'd be disqualified on income. You are not disqualified from adopting as long as you have enough income to support the child- even if it's welfare. So they'd likely be fine.

Josh wouldn't be an issue as he doesn't live with the family and would not be included in their home study.

I really don't see them going through an agency or a foster adoption though. If an adoption takes place, it will be done with a private attorney and the baby "sourced" from a leg-humper teenager.

[barbecutie]

14 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I believe Ben announced that he is taking online classes through Moody Bible Institute to finish his (bachelor's) degree.  Presumably he is majoring in something preacherlike.

The options are BS in Ministry Leadership, BS in Theological Studies, or BS in Theology and Cultural Studies . There is also a BS in Biblical Studies and various associate degrees and certificates.

When I see those course options, I unintentionally read it as Bullsh*t in Ministry Leadership, Bullsh*t in Theological Studies, or Bullsh*t in Theology and Cultural Studies.

Considering it's the Moody Bible Institute, I think I'm accurate 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I'm not sure why Benessa wants to adopt? They seem to be able to have their own children. Aren't they busy enough with Spurgeon? Weird. 

[doggie]

31 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I'm not sure why Benessa wants to adopt? They seem to be able to have their own children. Aren't they busy enough with Spurgeon? Weird. 

so they can impress god and their fans.

[purplespecs]

Long time lurker first time poster   I know very little about adoption in my country and even less about adoption in the US, but I have a query that relates to Jessa and Ben adopting so close to having Spurgeon.

A relative of someone I know is currently adopting her second baby (both adopted as babies from the same birth mum) whilst at the same time she is also pregnant with her first biological child.  

The lady in question had breast cancer and was left unable to conceive a child.  After a couple of failed IVF attempts she adopted a baby (though an agency I believe) from another state.  Fast forward almost a year and she announces she's miraculously fallen pregnant naturally - something she was told she was never going to be able to do.  At around the same time, the birth mother of her first child contacted her to say she was pregnant again and asked if she would adopt her second child - to which she agreed.  Both her biological and adoptive child are due to be born in August, and according to her blog, the adoption has been formalised with an attorney.  

How is this possible?  Could Jessa do a similar thing?  Do regulations between states differ so much?

 

[blessalessi]

@purplespecs In your friends' case, if it is a private adoption, then the key issue would be for them to pass the home study, I think. If the first mother is keen to place siblings together and the couple are known to the agency, then although it seems to be an extraordinary thing to take on, I am not all that surprised, given the other cases that have been reported here.

I haven't read your blog link but may I quickly, and with no snark, make you aware that they may get a hell of a lot of blog traffic as a result of you posting that link on a very popular Duggar snark site.  Since this is your first post, and given that you might have posted a bit hastily, if you think that the traffic from the link could cause problems for you or your family or that couple, you might want to contact the mods to ask for it to be hidden.
 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

1 hour ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I'm not sure why Benessa wants to adopt? They seem to be able to have their own children. Aren't they busy enough with Spurgeon? Weird. 

So they can claim they are super godly by giving a home to a child in need / can rebuke claims that the Duggars do nothing but contribute to overpopulation. 

[blessalessi]

If you intended to post the link, fair enough and sorry for interfering!

[purplespecs]

I didn't think it would cause much trouble as her blog is widely read (it has 7000 followers on facebook alone, no idea on the amount of views her blog has).  She has published one book already on her journey to adoption, and the second is in the works, but I have removed the link as I don't wish to cause any trouble by posting it here.  

But in regards - the first was an adoption through an agency, this one must be private as the mother has contacted her to request it.  But do the same rules not apply? 

[Four is Enough]

Regarding the sibling adoption: I think most agencies would bend over backwards to place siblings together, especially if the birth mother requests it and the would-be parents would qualify. If their home study is up to date,  the agency would know if the home is large enough to accept two infants. 

Interestingly, it is not a requirement that each child have its own room in an adoption. Two and Three shared a room for several years, till we renovated and added a bedroom and One moved into the basement.. Two and Three are same sex children. That is the requirement.

 

[blessalessi]

Fair enough on the link, I just thought I'd mention it as it was your first post and this is the most busy part of the board.

The adoption will still be subject to some sort of a formal process, even if the first mother is approaching them outside of the agency in the first instance. Private adoption means (I think) that the parent decides voluntarily to terminate their parental rights, and then uses an agency or similar process without surrenduring the child directly to the state/social services. 

We have some threads on the main snark forum concerning families that pass children around for second-chance adoptions and call it "re-homing", and the legal processes vary as you say, and it is mind-boggling what is permissible.

I don't think we know any detail of what Jessa and Ben plan to do.

 

[blessalessi]

@purplespecs, just to clarify, you are welcome to post the link, it wont cause trouble for FJ, I was just checking as it sounded at first like you were posting a link to a small personal blog of an acquaintance. 

The same rules should apply to the second adoption as to the first. It will depend on the state law and I would imagine that a family that publishes and sells their story for public consumption will probably be getting solid legal advice.  The shady adoption stories usually happen more quietly and are announced after the deal has been done.

I don't think that an adoption can be formalised until the baby is born though as, well... there isn't a child available for adoption right now.  The first mother will be able to change her mind at any point until the process is finalised. 

I don't feel shocked any longer about the ways that some families procure arrows for their quiver, but I feel heartbroken for that mother who is making plans to surrender a second child already. 

[blessalessi]

23 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

If their home study is up to date,  the agency would know if the home is large enough to accept two infants. 

I thought the concern is not so much two infants, but two newborns, one bio and one adopted born in the same month.

If it were a state adoption, I would not think it would go ahead anywhere nearly as easily as in a private arrangement. The wish for siblings to be placed together would have to be balanced against the wisdom of placing a newborn adoptee into a family right alongside another, bio, newborn.

 

[purplespecs]

I don't even know the woman - I went to university with a relative of hers for a few months and added the relative on facebook.  I'm only basically an acquaintance of the relative but due to how facebook shows posts I see a lot of likes and shares of blog posts even though I don't speak to her very much.

The family is definitely fundie-lite but from reading their blog I doubt they would have intended on growing their family this quickly.  Its just been coincidence (or God's divine planning, in their words).   As it stands their eldest has just turned one in the last couple of weeks, the biological child is due at the beginning of august and the adoptive child is due at the end of august (though the first adoptive one was born a few weeks early).  However it stands, she's certainly going to have her hands full this summer.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

2 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I'm not sure why Benessa wants to adopt? They seem to be able to have their own children. Aren't they busy enough with Spurgeon? Weird. 

I've asked myself the same question.  They might  be parroting JB & M who have made noises about adopting for years. In fact Ma & Pa were just in that movie "5 Day Adoption" which is all about if you pray hard enough, adoption is easy and quick. Some people think Ma & Pa might still be giving some serious thought to adopting. Jessa was trained up to be a mini-Michelle so it would be a natural thing for her to take on the ideas and desires of her folks.

On the other hand Benessa may just be young and sheltered.  When I was 12, I wanted to marry a minister and have 6 children.  Then I matured and realized that as an atheist, living a life dedicated to the church and having so many children was not for me-- it was a childish dream. Frankly Jessa and Bin both seem a little overwhelmed with one child, I think perhaps that they are going to begin questioning the idea of having a big family, especially if the show stops and they need to start scrambling for funds.

There is also the fact that they have been brainwashed to believe that women abort because they are selfish and if only someone would step in and offer to raise the baby in question any woman could be talked out of aborting.  I can easily imagine this about Bin especially because he seems like a passionate but shallow and ill-educated guy.  No doubt he sees himself as a savior if only people would just listen to him!

Too bad the so-called reality show they star in can't help us learn the truth.  This show is happy to bore the pants off us and showcase vapid people doing mundane things but god forbid they should tell us the unvarnished truth.

[Bad Wolf]

In my state, the birth mother has 72 hours to change her mind about giving up the baby. Adoptive parents do not get the baby until mom has signed away her rights. Prevents the adoptive parents from getting attached then having the baby taken away. Different states have different rules.

[patsymae]

The fundie Christian adoption network will supply a baby to the Seawalls if they want one, and a family court judge in AK will sign off on it. Funds still slut-shame women and basically operate in the same way that everyone in English-spaking countries did during the "Baby Scoop Era." Take a "girl" who has "fallen," isolate her and send her to a "home," "explain" how she can expiate her "sin" by becoming a "vessel" for good Christian parents who can do more for her child than her sinful self ever could, and get a Christian judge to sign off. If you don't believe me, just start looking at adoption boards. Even sometimes the "girls" themselves say they are blessed to be a vessel for believers. They believe it.

If it doesn't work out? "Re-home. "

[ClaraOswin]

Looks like Jessa and Ben did take Spurgeon to El Salvador to visit Derick and Jill.

There are some photos on their site.

[Bad Wolf]

But, but, it's so dangerous.

[MakeItSo]

10 hours ago, barbecutie said:

When I see those course options, I unintentionally read it as Bullsh*t in Ministry Leadership, Bullsh*t in Theological Studies, or Bullsh*t in Theology and Cultural Studies.

Considering it's the Moody Bible Institute, I think I'm accurate 

how those would be Bachelor of Science degrees is beyond me...why are they not B.A.'s instead? (not that I think most of those degrees from bible universities will get him anywhere but within that small fundie circle he moves in)

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, ClaraOswin said:

Looks like Jessa and Ben did take Spurgeon to El Salvador to visit Derick and Jill.

There are some photos on their site.

I refuse to give their monetized site the clicks, but I saw the picture posted on Duggar Family Official. Given the size of SES, I'd say they were down there last week when a lot of schools (including the college where I work) had Spring Break. Would Ben travel for days with "studying" to do and what Jerick claim is "faulty" internet? Around midterms, that would be stupid.

Then again, this is Ben Seewald, PhD. that we're talking about here...we'll find out soon enough how long this "school" phase lasts. I think money will win out, especially if Jill announces another pregnancy soon (and based on her Easter pic, this could be a thing). 

[EmCatlyn]

41 minutes ago, MakeItSo said:

how those would be Bachelor of Science degrees is beyond me...why are they not B.A.'s instead? (not that I think most of those degrees from bible universities will get him anywhere but within that small fundie circle he moves in)

Bachelor of Arts are becoming increasingly unpopular.  Bachelor of Science has more status. Also, with a Bachelor of Arts accreditation agencies expect a foreign language requirement.  Oddly enough, they no longer seem to have a math and science requirement beyond the general education courses in many B.S.  programs.  

It all comes down to the idea that a "science" is useful and practical but "arts" are, well, you know... Just imagination and stuff...  

[foreign fundie]

9 hours ago, patsymae said:

" Take a "girl" who has "fallen," isolate her and send her to a "home," "explain" how she can expiate her "sin" by becoming a "vessel" for good Christian parents who can do more for her child than her sinful self ever could, and get a Christian judge to sign off. If you don't believe me, just start looking at adoption boards. Even sometimes the "girls" themselves say they are blessed to be a vessel for believers. They believe it.

It is a very sick system. What I do not get is the logic behind it. The popular Bible verse about how God knitted you together in your mother's womb is often quoted (psalm139). And logically it would follow that God knitted the child in that particular mother's womb for a reason. He tied the baby to that mum with the umbilical cord and gave the baby her genes. So how can it be God's intention that the baby is taken away from her and raised by someone else? 

I think to in order to honor the design of God, every effort should be made that a baby can be raised by it's own mum (and dad if he is around). Adopting a child from a mum who really can't or won't raise the child is not a beautiful thing, but redeeming a sad situation which again should be prevented if possible.

[guitar_villain]

13 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

In my state, the birth mother has 72 hours to change her mind about giving up the baby. Adoptive parents do not get the baby until mom has signed away her rights. Prevents the adoptive parents from getting attached then having the baby taken away. Different states have different rules.

Speaking as an adoptive parent, that's way too short.  Your hormones aren't even remotely back to normal three days after birth.  Virginia, where we adopted, is a month and some states it's up to a year, which given the tension of waiting on a birthmother to rescind at any time seems too long to me.

I know some families where they didn't want the child until it was our of foster care and legally ready for adoption.  We took ours home from the hospital as soon as we could and just lived with the risk.

The whole five day adoption thing really doesn't sit well with me.  It should take a lot longer than that.

[Four is Enough]

2 hours ago, guitar_villain said:

Speaking as an adoptive parent, that's way too short.  Your hormones aren't even remotely back to normal three days after birth.  Virginia, where we adopted, is a month and some states it's up to a year, which given the tension of waiting on a birthmother to rescind at any time seems too long to me.

I know some families where they didn't want the child until it was our of foster care and legally ready for adoption.  We took ours home from the hospital as soon as we could and just lived with the risk.

The whole five day adoption thing really doesn't sit well with me.  It should take a lot longer than that.

One's adoption: his birth parents had six months to change their minds. By the time we adopted Two, the state had come to realize that most times the disruptions come in the first 28 days, so the time was changed. (Maryland) We took both home from the hospital and lived with the risk, as guitar_villain said. Three and Four were already born, foster to adopt. Their parental rights were terminated by the court.

I heartily agree that three days is far too short. I remember One and Two's birth parents signing termination papers prior to the birth, then, again, in the hospital, but there was still that time period when they were permitted to change their minds without a problem. While we worried, and wondered. they had more time to think.